Bidding.

[jerome keslin]

IMP pairs. V vs NV

North         South

Q               A432

AK72        643

Q752        K4

A983        T874

North dealt.

Opponents silent

How might the bidding go?

[doug...@aol.com]

After 1D - 1S, I'd rebid 1NT and play it there.

Same if I opened 1C.

* Non-KSU tidbit: My partnership plays mini-Roman, with the same strength limits as a Weak NT. This hand values at 15.35, so it's too strong, but if I made that mis-judgement ATT it would go:  2D - 2S, 3C - Pass. Not a horrible contract, but I'd rather be in 1N.

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[Sansing, Richard C.]

The introduction to Part C of KS Updated offers a minimum 1444 hand with good hearts as an example of a hand in which a four-card major may be opened, so:

 

1H-P-2H-All Pass

 

With an 8-card spade fit, I would not be surprised to hear the opponents to balance; but you stipulated silent opponents.

 

Richard

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[Adam Wildavsky]

2H is not a favorite, so having the opponents reach 2S would be desirable. 

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[Fred.]

You will have a better chance of finding a club fit if you open

the North hand 1C.  Raise a response in either red suit, pass

1NT, and rebid 1NT after a 1S response.

If North opens 1H, the the hand is way too strong to comfortably

pass a 1NT response, but  a 2C rebid will often result in playing

a 4-2 fit, even worse than when South raises with xxx in hearts. 

Fred.

[judyorcarl]

way too strong????

maybe a tiny bit too strong, but I doubt even that

[doug...@aol.com]

Certainly too strong. R may have up to 11. 3N and 5 of either m are still on the table. Pass would be egregious, especially V at IMPs.

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[judyorcarl]

Responder will not bid 1NT with a fairly good eleven.  That is forced when you open min  4441 in a major.

Will you have to pay off sometimes?  Sure.

[Fred.]

Maybe I should have said "clearly" rather than "way", but that is a

quibble.

The description on opener's pass in C-3 is:

"Not impossible. Likely, opener has 4-card major, 12-14 points.

Conceivably, 5-card major but very weak suit, 12-13 points. 

Greater strength unwise, since responder may have good 11 points."

At IMP pairs I wouldn't like passing a decent 14.  

Look at the 2m response in C-1 and tell me what responder should bid

holding a decent 11 and lacking the length for 3H or 1S.  

What, by the way, is the benefit for which I'm paying off when I open 1H

 rather than 1C?  That I don't have to rebid 1NT on a hand which many 

would open a 15-17 NT?  I think that the ability to find the best suit fit 

outweighs that small awkwardness.

Fred.

[judyorcarl]

Benefit: every minimum hand that opens a minor has 5+ length.

To call that hand a non-min puts takes the singleton spade queen too seriously.

[doug...@aol.com]

15.35ccc

Change S Q to x and its 15.15

I'd trust Edgar.

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.

[Christopher Monsour]

Opening 1!C is fine NV.  If vulnerable, why not open 1!D to avoid having to pass 1N?

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From: dougdeacn via The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System <kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2021 10:43:59 AM
To: kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com <kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Bidding.

 

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[Fred.]

The hand is 15.35 KnR, 15.15 demoting the spade queen. Replace

 both queens with small cards  and it is still a good minimum range 

opening with 13.60 KnR.  Here 1H would work because opener can

pass 1NT, though still will not be happy if responder raises with xxx.

Switch the majors and I would still open it 1C, since I can rebid 1S

over a heart response (and, no!, this does not promise a 5cm or

extra values).

When responder bids 1S, the short suit value goes away, but the

spade queen becomes worth something.

Fred.

[Adam Wildavsky]

Thanks for including the KnR! I always like to see it in discussions of hand evaluation.

KnR already demotes short queens severely - why demote the SQ further, and why specifically by 0.20?

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[Adam Wildavsky]

I see the context now, the SQ adds 0.20 versus a small singleton.

[Fred.]

0.20 was the KnR difference between the stiff queen and

a stiff singleton in the same place.  I wasn't really suggesting

demoting it further.  I was trying to emphasize out that, ignoring

the rebid problem over 1S, it is a sound opening no matter

how you look at the spade queen.

Fred.

[Adam Wildavsky]

A point worth considering. A 1NT response is a priori unlikely, and it might not go All Pass, and if it did we might end up +90 or -100. But there's a real danger of a significantly poor result - a simulation would be useful.

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[judyorcarl]

Notice that with the actual deal, a 1H opening will result in a contract of 2H, which I would love to declare.

An irremovable defect of 5-card major systems is that you can *never* play in two of opener's good 4-card major,

Carl

[Fred.]

Since 5-4-3-1 occurs about 6 times as often as 4-4-4-1

I'd expect 1=4=5=3 and 4=1=5=3 hands to come up about 3 times 

as often as 1=4=4=4 and 4=1=4=4 hands, even disregarding the

1=4=4=4's which are opened 1H.  Believing that I am doing so on 

EK's advice, with the former distributions after a 1NT response to 

1D, I rebid 2C.  Having been promised a 5-card diamond suit, a 

responder with 3=3=3=4 can give a 2D preference if the clubs

are weak.  

In practice, which is far from a statistical universe,  I've usually

found responder with 5 clubs and 2 or 3 diamonds where clubs

is, by far, the superior strain.

Opening 1D with 4-4 more often, I don't think the specter of 

a 3=3=3=4 responding hand should stop an opener with an

unbalanced 5=3 in the minors from rebidding  2C 

Fred.

On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 12:14:07 PM UTC-5 Adam Wildavsky wrote: