October BW hand

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chuck and teril swart

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Nov 2, 2021, 7:14:21 PM11/2/21
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Challenge the champs board 10
East Dealer, Both sides vulnerable

East
AKJ62
T652
A54
A

West
Q95
AQ843
6
Q765

Suggest an appropriate KSU auction

Christoph F Eick

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Nov 2, 2021, 9:35:19 PM11/2/21
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1S-1NT-2H(not enough for 3H!)-4H(even get to a  game that makes might be an accomplishment)---I know we should reach 6H cold most of the time on dummy reversal, but i do not see how to reach it.
 
Maybe 1S-1NT-2H-4D might get us there, but W  has a 10 count with only 1.5QT and not10's and 9's and not everybody plays 4D as a Splinter here,,,
 
Sorry!
 
Christoph F. Eick
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Christopher Monsour

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Nov 2, 2021, 9:47:11 PM11/2/21
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1S    2H
3D   3S
4H   4N
5S    6H
P

Response is 2H because this six-loser hand with support will force game opposite 1S.
3D because opener is too strong to jump to 4H.
4H finally shows heart support and extras.  Opposite a partner who is showing at least a slammish 17 in support of hearts even before knowing about the double fit​, responder has enough to try for slam.  Asking for aces seems most expeditious.  Note that KSU isn't really compatible with RKC since there are too many auctions like this where it's unclear what is trump.  
5S is three aces.
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Subject: October BW hand
 

jerome keslin

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Nov 3, 2021, 2:15:28 AM11/3/21
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In C1 2h is described as a 1 round force, 9+ hcp and 5+ hearts. Then 3d is the GF.
With extras and a spade fit the  slam could be reached as in Christopher Monsour's auction. What is trumps?:)


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Christopher Monsour

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Nov 3, 2021, 5:55:42 AM11/3/21
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It could be.  Consider a singleton diamond and no 1st or 2nd round control of clubs, one also couldn't blame responder for passing 4H.

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Subject: Re: October BW hand
 

Christopher Monsour

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Nov 3, 2021, 6:01:36 AM11/3/21
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One of the unfortunate things about KSU is that opener would also have to rebid 3D with a hand like AKJxx KJx AKx xx

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Christopher Monsour

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Nov 3, 2021, 6:02:58 AM11/3/21
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So perhaps responder should pass 4H, or perhaps responder should raise to 5H rather than using Blackwood.

Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 5:01 AM

Steve Willner

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Nov 3, 2021, 9:17:55 AM11/3/21
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On 11/3/21 6:02 AM, Christopher Monsour wrote:
> So perhaps responder should pass 4H, or perhaps responder should raise
> to 5H rather than using Blackwood.

5H looks right to me. Responder has considerable undisclosed values, so
pass is far too conservative.

Standard splinters, where opener's rebid would be 4C, would make things
easier, but that's not K-S.

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Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 3, 2021, 10:08:27 AM11/3/21
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Indeed, 4d is not a splinter in KSU. Per C-7, 1S 1N 2H 4m is "4-card heart fit, cue-bid with maximum." I've always thought that this cue should be an ace, but perhaps Kaplan would have said so if that were a requirement.

I like a 2H response. Without the club Q responder might make a limit raise.

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On Tue, Nov 02, 2021 at 7:35 PM, Christoph F Eick <ce...@aol.com> wrote:
1S-1NT-2H(not enough for 3H!)-4H(even get to a  game that makes might be an accomplishment)---I know we should reach 6H cold most of the time on dummy reversal, but i do not see how to reach it.
 
Maybe 1S-1NT-2H-4D might get us there, but W  has a 10 count with only 1.5QT and not10's and 9's and not everybody plays 4D as a Splinter here,,,
 
Sorry!
 
Christoph F. Eick
 

In a message dated 11/2/2021 6:14:22 PM Central Standard Time, chuckterilswart@gmail.com writes:
 
Challenge the champs board 10
East Dealer, Both sides vulnerable
 
East
AKJ62
T652
A54
A
 
West
Q95
AQ843
6
Q765
 
Suggest an appropriate KSU auction

 

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Michelangelo Di Stefano Medico Psicoterapeuta

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Nov 3, 2021, 11:46:01 PM11/3/21
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In Chris Monsour's auction, west must decide hearts as trump. You can £see he will discard at least 2 clubs on spades. 4N immediately after 4H is RKCB with trump hearts

Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 3, 2021, 11:53:57 PM11/3/21
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4H on the third round can't be enough with opener's hand. He has play for 7H opposite xxx AKxxx xx xxx. 6H would be great opposite Qxx Axxxxx x xxx. Neither is enough for a 2H response.

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Christopher Monsour

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Nov 4, 2021, 5:53:25 AM11/4/21
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On the other hand, Q10x Qxxxx -- KQJ10x is a 2H response, so there isn't complete 5 level safety.

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Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 11:53:43 PM
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Subject: Re: October BW hand

Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 4, 2021, 11:45:58 AM11/4/21
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Doesn't 2c look better than 2H? If you don't consider it strong enough for 2c then 3S is probably best.

That said, I agree that we don't have 100% five-level safety. Bidding rarely comes with guarantees. There's a cost to missing a good slam too.

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On Thu, Nov 04, 2021 at 3:53 AM, Christopher Monsour <cmon...@msn.com> wrote:
On the other hand, Q10x Qxxxx -- KQJ10x is a 2H response, so there isn't complete 5 level safety.

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Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 11:53:43 PM
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Subject: Re: October BW hand
4H on the third round can't be enough with opener's hand. He has play for 7H opposite xxx AKxxx xx xxx. 6H would be great opposite Qxx Axxxxx x xxx. Neither is enough for a 2H response.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 7:47 PM Christopher Monsour <cmonsour@msn.com> wrote:
1S    2H
3D   3S
4H   4N
5S    6H
P

Response is 2H because this six-loser hand with support will force game opposite 1S.
3D because opener is too strong to jump to 4H.
4H finally shows heart support and extras.  Opposite a partner who is showing at least a slammish 17 in support of hearts even before knowing about the double fit​, responder has enough to try for slam.  Asking for aces seems most expeditious.  Note that KSU isn't really compatible with RKC since there are too many auctions like this where it's unclear what is trump.  
5S is three aces.

Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 6:14 PM
Challenge the champs board 10
East Dealer, Both sides vulnerable

East
AKJ62
T652
A54
A

West
Q95
AQ843
6
Q765

Suggest an appropriate KSU auction

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Martin Ambuhl

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Nov 4, 2021, 4:33:23 PM11/4/21
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On 11/3/2021 5:15 AM, Michelangelo Di Stefano Medico Psicoterapeuta wrote:
> In Chris Monsour's auction, west must decide hearts as trump. You can
> £see he will discard at least 2 clubs on spades. 4N immediately after 4H
> is RKCB with trump hearts

Your partnership may agree that 4NT is RKCB, but it your agreement is
KSU, then it is Blackwood for aces.

Fred.

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Nov 4, 2021, 6:55:33 PM11/4/21
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If, as you reasonably suggest, the auction

1S    2H
3D    3S

shows responder with too much for a limit raise then
QTx KQJ9x xx xx would be a sub-minimum and a near
laydown for 6H.  By Culbertson's rule, lacking a good
understanding of how to check on things, opener should
continue with 6H, particularly at match points.

What would 5H from opener mean?  

Fred.

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Christopher Monsour

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Nov 4, 2021, 6:57:52 PM11/4/21
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5H is the only invite to 6H, since non-heart bids may elicit 6S from responder 

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Subject: Re: October BW hand

Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 5, 2021, 2:57:23 AM11/5/21
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That hand is missing a card. But never mind that, what formulation of Culbertson’s rule do you mean? The one I know is described here:


Fred.

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Nov 5, 2021, 10:16:40 AM11/5/21
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Sorry.  Shouldn't make posts when dinner is almost ready.
Should have been QTx KQJ9x x xxxx for the perfect sub-min.

The form of Culbertson's rule I've been using is:  

* Invite slam, or game if it will be a near laydown when facing
* a perfect minimum, bid it if it will be a near laydown when 
* facing a perfect sub-minimum.   

This is an extension of Jeff Ruben's formulation cited by 
Jeff Lehman in the linked article, and I am unsure where to
attribute it.  Maybe I misread Ruben year's ago :-).  Lehman's 
point about thinking about the way the hand will play while
bidding is 100%.   

In any case, whoever's rule which I am using has worked well
for me.  The overwhelming majority of contracts I've bid
using it have been contracts I wanted to be in on the combined
hands, though a number of contracts that I wanted to be in
went down on the actual opposing distributions.  The times
that the rule has lead me astray has been when thinking about
how the hands might play together has distracted me from the
fact that the  so powerful that it doesn't matter.

I'd like to add that I'd think a good player who chose to respond
2H with only enough for a limit raise is still likely to have a
purish hand with Qxx spade support and a good 5-card heart
suit.  This just reinforces my conviction on 6H from opener,
despite the many things which can go wrong.

Fred.

Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 5, 2021, 9:49:51 PM11/5/21
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I'm not sure your corollary is sound as is. Culbertson's formulation presumes that the current level might be the last making spot and is used to judge whether inviting has a positive expectation given the risk of going down when the invitation is rejected. As I understand your version, it does not account for the possibility of inviting rather than blasting.

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Fred.

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Nov 6, 2021, 10:07:38 AM11/6/21
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If responder's bids show a limit raise or better, then
opener's bid would be 5H and, I expect that responder
with extra values, mostly well placed, would accept the
invitation.

If responder's bids show better than a limit raise, and if
opener bids 5H, then responder, also attending to the rule,
would likely pass the un-purish minimum.  (Assuming opener
has a diamond fragment, the club queen is likely a wasted
value.)  The second provision suggests opener bid 6H here.

I admit to being considerably less positive about the
second provision IMP scoring and would consider
the state of the match in choosing between 5H and 6H.

Fred.

Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 6, 2021, 1:37:31 PM11/6/21
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I could have been clearer. I don't object to 6H - I'd likely bid it myself. It's just the addition to Culbertson's rule that I'm wary of.

Since on many layouts we'd prefer to avoid a diamond lead, a case could be made for blasting over 2H. 5H would be about right. We'll have play if responder holds good trump.

Opposite this sub-minimum, 6H is great with no diamond lead:

xx
KQxxxx
xx
xxx

CtC does not make allowances for auctions that make the winning lead more difficult to find!

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Christopher Monsour

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Nov 6, 2021, 1:49:28 PM11/6/21
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CtC does not make full allowances for auctions that make the winning lead harder to find.  They potentially make allowances for putting the hand on lead that will have a harder time finding the right lead.  (At least, the format allows for that.)

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Subject: Re: October BW hand

David Morgan

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Nov 6, 2021, 9:29:12 PM11/6/21
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Surely the KSU auction is
-- 1S
3S-4S
East can envisage slam opposite a number of West hands but how can opener sensibly find out?

While responding 2H is appealing and works opposite this opener, what would responder rebid if opener's rebid were 2NT?  Surely 3S is GF with slam interest, and 4S seems a punt opposite a hand known to be short in H.  I'd also assume that responder's 3S would be forcing if opener's rebid were 2S.

And if the auction did start
-- 1S
2H-3D
3S
how does opener distinguish between three-card and four-card heart support?  (And, yes, opener may well wish to treat xxxx as three-card support.)   Marshall Miles has some interesting ideas on these auctions in his great book How to Win at Duplicate Bridge.

Christopher Monsour

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Nov 6, 2021, 9:44:14 PM11/6/21
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I respond 2H because I think the hand is too good for a limit raise, so I have no problem if I have to bid game over 2N.  I was always bidding game.

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Fred.

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Nov 8, 2021, 4:48:15 PM11/8/21
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I wasn't intending to make a case for 6H.  In response to
 your challenge, I was trying to give a case where the rule
as I stated it would lead opener to blast 6H and one where
 the rule would lead opener to invite with a 5H bid.  Note 
that the rule for inviting uses "minimum" while the rule for 
blasting uses "sub-minimum".

Whether or not the rule for a minimum blast is a good one, 
it does have the virtue of placing a narrow range on the 
invitation, and takes some pressure off the invitee.

Fred.

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Adam Wildavsky

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Nov 9, 2021, 12:48:16 AM11/9/21
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That's a good way to look at it. I'll need to give the matter more thought.

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