A modernized KS

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Ronald Kalf

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May 9, 2022, 4:28:22 PM5/9/22
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
In KSU I like
1. weak notrump
2. reverses after 1m-1M
3. D.I.
but I don‘t like
4. the choice between passing or rebidding 2m with a mediocre suit after 1m-1M
5. selfpreempting opening bids (2C and 2N)
there is room for improvement with respect to
6. continuations after 1M-1N
7. continuations after 2/1
8. responding to 1N
If you want to do something about #5 you have to play a strong or ambiguous club (or diamond) system and that would definitely not be KDU anymore.
For #6 there are several versions of Gazzilli. For #7 one might adopt Ambra or find help in the Kokish-Kraft notes. For #8 I prefer condensed transfers aka Hitchhiker, but two-way Stayman or anything else but normal transfers is acceptable. 
My main problem is #4 and here is my proposed solution:
A. All balanced hands too strong for 1N and too weak for 2N are opened 1C.
B. 1D-1M; 1N now shows a minimum hand with both minors either way.
C. Having taken care of 5m-4om we still have 5m-4H which we open 2H.
D. The loss of the WT in H is compensated by Multi-2D.
E. 2S is free to take care of some other nuisance, maybe a good weak two in either minor.
How about it? Is this crazy or heresy? I‘m sure 4th generation KS would be different if EK were still alive.

Steve Willner

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May 10, 2022, 9:29:29 AM5/10/22
to kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com
On 5/9/22 4:28 PM, Ronald Kalf wrote:
> D. The loss of the WT in H is compensated by Multi-2D.

Not practical for most of us in the ACBL. The good news is that 2H is
the least-effective weak two, so one can just drop it, and keep 2D and
2S as natural and weak.

--
Steve Willner

Christopher Monsour

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May 10, 2022, 9:36:10 AM5/10/22
to kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com
Or use 2D to show four hearts and 0-1 spades.  (Then your 2H opening promises spade tolerance also.)
From: kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com <kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Steve Willner <st...@cjsw.us>
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 8:29 AM
To: kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com <kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: A modernized KS
 

judyorcarl

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May 10, 2022, 11:46:22 AM5/10/22
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
Commenting on 4, unrelated to your proposal.

When holding xxxxx in a minor, three quick tricks, 11-14 hcp and 5431 shape:

If the singleton is an ace, pretend it is a doubleton.

If the 4-card is AQ or better, pretend it is 5-card (and pass 1NT response).

Basically, then, you are forced to open and rebid xxxxx only with something like

Axxx
x
AKx
xxxxx.

Carl

Steve Willner

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May 10, 2022, 1:39:12 PM5/10/22
to kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com
Context is using an opening 2H bid to show =4cH, =5cm with minimum
opening values. In the ACBL this is legal on the Open Chart but not below.

On 5/10/22 9:36 AM, Christopher Monsour wrote:
> Or use 2D to show four hearts and 0-1 spades.  (Then your 2H opening
> promises spade tolerance also.)

This is also legal on Open.

My concern with the whole scheme is whether it's worth reserving even
one bid, let alone two, for such an uncommon hand type.

--
Steve Willner

Steve Willner

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May 10, 2022, 3:00:44 PM5/10/22
to kaplan-s...@googlegroups.com
Having thought about this a bit more...

On 5/9/22 4:28 PM, Ronald Kalf wrote:
> there is room for improvement with respect to
> 6. continuations after 1M-1N
> 7. continuations after 2/1
> 8. responding to 1N

> If you want to do something about #5
> 5. selfpreempting opening bids (2C and 2N)
> you have to play a strong or ambiguous club (or diamond) system

Another alternative is to give up the SAF 2C, and make 2NT a little
stronger, say 22-23. (You can make 2C a weak two-bid or maybe some
variety of multi where that's legal.) On balanced hands too strong for
2NT, open 3NT. On strong unbalanced hands, open a suit at the one
level, and jump-shift later. It will help to put some artificiality in
the jump-shift auctions, but that isn't necessary because these
sequences are rare.

> For #6 there are several versions of Gazzilli.

I don't object to the KSU continuations, but I won't argue against
Gazilli if you like it.

> For #7 one might adopt Ambra or find help in the Kokish-Kraft notes.

Just keep in mind that 1S-2H and 1D-2C are weaker than the others, so
ordinary 2/1 methods won't be good. One improvement I like over 1S-2H
is that all minimums rebid 2S, and 2NT shows 15-17. The 2S rebid can't
promise a 6c suit regardless, so at least make the 2NT rebid show a hand
type that's otherwise hard to show.

> For #8 I prefer condensed transfers aka Hitchhiker, but two-way Stayman or anything else but
> normal transfers is acceptable.

I've never played normal transfers with 12-14 NT, but when opponents
play them, they don't seem to work as badly as I'd have expected. I
gather normal transfers are quite popular in England.

Other methods worth considering are art 2D to show inv+ with a 5cM
(2M=signoff) and a triple-puppet scheme, where 2C, 2D, and 2H are all
puppets to the next higher suit, and 2S is a signoff. The 4cM hands go
through 2C, if I remember correctly. This gives three two-level
signoffs as KS does (though at the price of an extra round of bidding
for two of them) and an enormous number of sequences for the
constructive hands.

I've played the inv 2D method but not the triple puppet.

--
Steve Willner

Fred.

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May 10, 2022, 9:37:08 PM5/10/22
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
The example you give (12.7 KnR) should rebid 1S after a red suit response,
and 2C only after a 1NT response, where it is to play and is likely to be facing
 some fit.

The real conundrum is the like of 
        x
        Axxx
        Axxx
        Axxx  (14.8 KnR)

To me, the only viable rebid when responder is inconsiderate enough to bid
1S is 2C.  1NT might work out if responder can continue 2H, but otherwise
it invites even deeper trouble.  At least Ronald  will be able to get a C/D
 preference after 1D-1S, 1NT.

Fred.

judyorcarl

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May 10, 2022, 10:01:23 PM5/10/22
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
switch the spades and diamonds.

opening a minimum 4441 with a minor is terrible in KS.  My late wife and I opened all such with a major, passing the 1NT response.

Fred.

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May 11, 2022, 9:17:49 AM5/11/22
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
I agree that opening a minimum 1-4-4-4 in KS is terrible in a weak club
suit, but it is also terrible in a weak heart suit.  I like my partners to apply
 the limit major raise aggressively, particularly when our suit is hearts and
 the opponents may have a spade fit.  AQxx is a reasonable shading of
1H,  maybe also AT9x.   A876 is not.  The danger is not that we may get
a bad result, but rather a bad result which inhibits partner's bidding.

Opening 1C and rebidding the awful 2C may get a bad result which inhibits
partner's bidding, but partner's inhibitions are more appropriate after a 2m
rebid.

Fred.

Fred.

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May 18, 2022, 7:00:36 PM5/18/22
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
A reasonable compromise would be limiting  the changes to
those you propose for the minor suit openings, dropping the
4H+5m 2H opening.

Then 1m - 1red - 2m would promise a better minimum suit
quality than 1m - 1S - 2m.

This should get you inside the ACBL Basic+ Chart.

Fred.

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 4:28:22 PM UTC-4 Ronald Kalf wrote:

Fred.

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Jan 19, 2023, 9:36:49 AM1/19/23
to The Kaplan-Sheinwold Bidding System
I think it might be reasonable to open all 5D+6C with 1D, then

1C-2C - 2D:  2-3 clubs.  Hand which would show a fragment+
after 1D-2D in KSU.

1C-2C - 3D: replaces 1C-2C - 2D lacking major suit stops. 

 1D-1M-1NT to a variety of hands.  Responder takes a 
club-diamond preference.  Then
--2D:  (after a club preference, M=S)  5D+4H, broken diamonds
--2M:  Weak raise, up to14 support, not up to an immediate 2M
--2OM: 4SF.  Could be game forcing 5D+6C
--2NT:  Intermediate 5D+6C.

Fred.


On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 4:28:22 PM UTC-4 Ronald Kalf wrote:
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