Economic growth is a doomed strategy. Poverty is a manufactured result of policies

[kan...@aol.com]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/10/economists-maths-growth-doomed-strategy-un-agencies-political-leaders

I'll leave it to Dave to comment on this article. I think it presents a lot of interesting notions of how things are and how they could be. 

FWIW, I've said that economic growth is a form of Ponzi scheme. If the US or any country obtains a stable size population, it will age (that's just statistical reality). If said country has a safety net of any kind for the elderly, it could/might/will collapse. 

See what the pros say. 

And yes, economics IS dismal. 

[B Keg]

Poverty is the default base level of mankind's existence. Modern social welfare programs are designed to keep people in poverty. Likely so that they will vote for whoever they think is going to keep those social programs funded. 

Be nice, even when you don't want to!

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[kan...@aol.com]

Which is why I asked DF to chime in, instead of a right-wing troglodyte. 

  Ancient Egyptian pyramids were not built by slaves, but by a massive, organized workforce of skilled craftsmen and paid local laborers. At their peak, roughly 20,000 to 30,000 workers labored in rotating shifts, enjoying high-quality diets and dedicated housing. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

So even 4000+ years ago you were full of shit. 

Pyramid building was a pretty "blue color" job. And yet, they lived decent lives. So your notions are couched in the thinking of those that want to keep people in marginal lives. 

The world as a whole, and the US in particular, is wealthy enough to allow people to live lives that are at least good enough to have food, water, shelter. I know that at any moment you're going off on a "commie" tangent. We're not talking about 56" TV's for people in Kenya. We're talking about food/water/shelter. We're talking about women not having to walk 5 miles to fetch potable water and not getting raped for their efforts.  

And, as a point of context, pyramid building was a GOVERNMENT job. 

So today we're being regaled with bullshit that is millennia old. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

Are you really comparing a public works project from 4000 years ago  with modern American welfare?

Oh please do tell us how you came to that conclusion.

And just where in America are welfare recipients walking 5 miles away from their 56 inch tvs to get water for cooking and bathing and being raped?

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[kan...@aol.com]

Uh, did you miss the KENYA reference, Brian? DUH. 

And yes, I'm making a comparison. Pyramids could be considered one of the earliest make-work projects in history. Sort of like our military today. Spend lots of money, hire lots of people, get not much for the effort. That's a perk of wealthy nations. And Egypt WAS wealthy. Of course, like today, a lot of the wealth came/comes from exploiting other nations. 

The "conclusion" I came to is that people back then lived decent lives despite having somewhat menial jobs. I'm really sorry that you didn't understand that. I can haul out sock puppets if you need me to. 

Time for DF. Your inanity is tiresome. 

[B Keg]

What does Kenya have to do with American welfare

Be nice, even when you don't want to!

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[kan...@aol.com]

Sigh. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

It must be exasperating not understanding the differnce between welfare and jobs

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[kan...@aol.com]

Are you exasperated? I'm not. Work that accomplishes nothing is called "make-work". It gives the illusion of getting something done. 

It's sad that you think that there are a lot of people willing to do nothing and collect money for their "efforts". Not sure how many such people there are. What we DO know is that millions of Americans work for dirt wages that don't begin to support them. Talk about THEM. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

I dont need to talk about them I am them fuck you 

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[kan...@aol.com]

As a truck driver, you did NOT work for dirt wage. People who work in chicken  processing  plants for $7.50/hr work for dirt. They also ALL get carpal tunnel, usually both hands. They end up disabled after working a few years. And their skill level is zilch. As I recall you have training in law enforcement. Even if you can't work a beat, you could be a dispatcher. Low wage, not dirt, and with medical bennies. 

But if you ARE one of  "them", why aren't you working to get your voice heard. Lobbying for a wage that WILL support a family. Lobbying for a wage that keeps  pace with inflation. Etc. Wages for lower and middle class people haven't kept pace with inflation for decades. And the wealthy have had their value rise WAY beyond inflation. And their ownership of America's wealth has skyrocketed. And it is NOT something that happens in a vacuum. It happens because they are able to exert disproportionate influence on gov't. When the wealthy donate to politicians, the ROI is more than 10:1. Maybe you should be talking about THAT. 

BTW, in 40+ years my salary has gone up by maybe 30-40%. Not exactly making out like a bandit. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

Because I argue for less government interference in commerce less welfare less spending and certainly less inflation which is rhe real enemy of the working class. 

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[kan...@aol.com]

Agree to disagree. 

Your density is really hard to penetrate. But look, according to you, you've suffered some economic downturns. But you emerged in decent shape.

Now look at this small group that posts here. We probably have a collective IQ north of 120-130. But for every person in this category there is a corresponding person with an IQ of of 70-80. These people graduate high school if lucky. They don't have the mental resources to get trained in high tech or complicated fields. They are consigned to lower wages. And when the economy has a downturn, they suffer greatly. Are we to assume that the correct way to deal is to let the chips fall where they may? Right out of Ayn Rand's playbook. Social Darwinism. 

I don't subscribe to that way of handling things. If we really were to let the Darwinian chips fall where they may, we could end up with a society with a higher aggregate IQ. But someone still needs to process chickens, pick strawberries, and clean toilets. Menial jobs will always exist; and the need to get them done won't end. And since you eat chicken and strawberries and like to use clean toilets, those jobs remain necessary to you and the rest of us. So it would benefit society if the people doing those jobs could earn a living wage. LIVING wage, not luxury, just subsistence. 

But that's not how things are. People at the low end of the economic totem pole often suffer greatly. 

This situation is not a necessary condition. The haves have been exploiting the have-nots for forever. We still exploit places like Africa; where we extract resources and pay little. We used to extract human labor for FREE, other than shipping costs. 

A totally free unrestricted market will NOT solve this issue. Period. History shows us this as fact. But history also shows us that it's not a necessary condition. Ancient Egypt provides an example. I'm sure there are others.