Uvalde school mass shooting: Pete Arredondo, Adrian Gonzales indicted in 1st-ever criminal charges over failed response to 2022 | CNN

[Brian Kegerreis]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/us/uvalde-grand-jury-indictments-police-chief-officer/index.html 

Finally some movement towards justice. 

[kan...@aol.com]

Agree 1000% or more that law enforcement was an embarrassment that day. 

Are they criminally embarrassing? I won't lose any sleep if they are found guilty; but I'm just wondering. 

[David Fairchild]

Likely not. Despite the mantra of To Serve and Protect, Deshaney V. Winnebago County Department of Social Services and Town of Castle Rock V. Gonzales establish there is no general legal obligation for the police to do protect.

[kan...@aol.com]

Dave, are you taking over for CL? How did you get so schooled on legal arcana like this? Good for you though. 

If police don't have a duty to protect, do they have ANY duty associated with their job? If they don't have some duty to act, then they shouldn't be licensed to carry weapons based on their job. 

Maybe this case will get to SCOTUS, who will affirm in favor of the police. This SCOTUS has an intense hostility toward the general public. Can't imagine them ruling against police. 

But BK is right to focus on the immense level of incompetence shown with this  particular episode. 

[GMoney]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 2:48 PM 'kan...@aol.com' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dave, are you taking over for CL? How did you get so schooled on legal arcana like this? Good for you though. 

If police don't have a duty to protect, do they have ANY duty associated with their job? If they don't have some duty to act, then they shouldn't be licensed to carry weapons based on their job. 

Maybe this case will get to SCOTUS, who will affirm in favor of the police. This SCOTUS has an intense hostility toward the general public. Can't imagine them ruling against police. 

But BK is right to focus on the immense level of incompetence shown with this  particular episode. 

Their JOB is to protect and serve, so if they refuse or are unable to do that, as was the case here, then they should lose their job, which they did.

But I agree with the rulings that state that a paid officer of the law does NOT have a LEGAL obligation to intervene in crimes or to protect citizens. Basically they have the same right you and I have: I can quit my job whenever I want, and I cannot and should not be jailed for that.  Ditto cops, don't you think?

[David Fairchild]

Sure, and sounds like an argument effectively neutering Select Service, don't you think?

[kan...@aol.com]

Interesting call, G. "There's a mass shooter killing kids in that school. I quit my job as of NOW". 

I wish that such a ruling had been in place when I was at work. I'm in the ER and there's a Nazi asking for care. I quit. But I'd be happy to be rehired in the morning. 

But you're right. I'd be guilty of malpractice and abandoning my position in the ER. But maybe still no LEGAL penalty. 

Is there "malpractice" obligation for police? These guys certainly failed to do their duty. 

Sometimes it would feel better to know that there is a judgement coming "later". These guys would not fare well at the Pearly Gates. 

Glad that they weren't there on D-Day; otherwise we'd be speaking German/Japanese. 

I'll let BK carry the ball for us here on the anger issue. He's been there; he's earned the right to be righteously pissed, maybe a little embarrassed knowing that these are law enforcement kin. I'll take the hit for shitty doctors. 

On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 3:05:22 PM UTC-5 G wrote:

[GMoney]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 5:45 PM 'kan...@aol.com' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Interesting call, G. "There's a mass shooter killing kids in that school. I quit my job as of NOW". 

Yep.  Who am i to say that you HAVE to go in and lay your life down for anyone else?

 

I wish that such a ruling had been in place when I was at work. I'm in the ER and there's a Nazi asking for care. I quit. But I'd be happy to be rehired in the morning. 

You would be breaking the oath of your own profession....not sure if you'd be so readily rehired, would you?

 

But you're right. I'd be guilty of malpractice and abandoning my position in the ER. But maybe still no LEGAL penalty. 

Correct.

 

Is there "malpractice" obligation for police? These guys certainly failed to do their duty. 

Good question, I don't know the answer.

 

I'll let BK carry the ball for us here on the anger issue. He's been there; he's earned the right to be righteously pissed, maybe a little embarrassed knowing that these are law enforcement kin. I'll take the hit for shitty doctors. 

Meh.....at the end of the day, doctors and police officers are people. People have been known to shoot 1st graders, torture animals, defecate in their breakfast cereal, and vote for Donald Trump. 

When that is the sort of gene pool you are picking from.....

[kan...@aol.com]

An answer, not THE answer to the issue of asking a police officer to lay down their life is that that what they were hired to do. Among other duties. The police officer knew going in that danger might arise at some time, even in Mayberry. 

This is a reason why I think that killing a cop is a worse crime than killing a civilian. WE hired THEM to potentially take a bullet for US. Killing one should carry a stiff  penalty. I recall a heated argument years ago with my dad over this. But I remain adamant that police killings are different, given their duty. But these guys abrogated their duty. The best that can be done is loss of job and loss of respect. Become a Wal-Mart greeter. 

[GMoney]

On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 4:46 PM 'kan...@aol.com' via Kansas City Diversity Coalition <kansas-city-div...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

An answer, not THE answer to the issue of asking a police officer to lay down their life is that that what they were hired to do. Among other duties. The police officer knew going in that danger might arise at some time, even in Mayberry.

Which makes them in violation of their WORK contract.....so they should be fired. We all agree on that, but that's not addressing the issue of further legal action over and above work reprimands.

 

 This is a reason why I think that killing a cop is a worse crime than killing a civilian. WE hired THEM to potentially take a bullet for US. Killing one should carry a stiff  penalty. I recall a heated argument years ago with my dad over this. But I remain adamant that police killings are different, given their duty. But these guys abrogated their duty. The best that can be done is loss of job and loss of respect. Become a Wal-Mart greeter. 

WHat exactly was your dad's argument, that killing a cop was "meh"????

[kan...@aol.com]

Dad thought that all murder victims deserve the same consideration. Not a poor stance to take. Probably Biblical in nature.

But I claimed, then and now, that citizens hire police to assume risks for the rest of us. To me that should afford them extra protection.

Not of course for the clowns we're talking about in this thread. That's why they're such an embarrassment to their badge and duty.