Need some advice for start please

[Gaidarn00b]

Hi gaidars,

i just purchased my first Djura Gaida (in G) from Shopbulgaria. I never played a bagpipe before so i need some help.

Not a complete newb when it comes to aerophone instruments though, i play "gaiditsa" which is local folklore instrument

similar to gaidunitsa blown by mouth.

What i am having problems with is getting the lower soundholes sound right. After tuning the reed to play in D with top three

holes closed, it play well from D up, but tone lower than that sound weaker and lowest hole or two produce unpleasant noise most of time.

Sometimes i can make it produce tone but most of time it sound off.

I believe new instrument needs proper setup, but not having any gaidar around here, i´ll resort to asking these questions here.

What do i have to fuss with to make whole scale sound right ? Is it the reed that needs to be adjusted ?

If so, how ?

I just played it for first time today, i am sure more issues will emerge, for now i nedd just figure out this particular one

and practice blowing the bag, i got exhausted very fast (which surprised me, considering i can play other woodwinds for hours no problem)

Thank you in advance.

[Kostadin Gerdjikov]

Hi, if you have time make a video with the bagpipe and send me a link. It would be very easy to upload it for example in google drive.

I cannot understand something. You got a bagpipe in G but you are trying to tune in D. That doesn't sound right to me. Usually reeds have some limitations.Although you can for example make it play higher or lower than the original tone when you push it too far, it always affects the tones in a bad way .As the lower holes are farthest from the reed they get the worst of it.

Greetings,

Kostadin

2014/1/5 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

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[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Kostadin,

Sorry to be confusing, i thought its widely known that Djura Gaidas are called by their "bell tone" which is G in my case,

however their tonic and drone are higher, in my case its D. I have just learned this somewhere on internet, and it was advised to tune

gaidunitsa to its tonic by covering top three holes and tune this way.

Right out the box, it was tuned much lower (somewhere between B and C) and lower notes was off too. I thought that by tuning it

where it has to be will address this too.

BTW, it was advised on the internet to start learning with chanter only, so i do and have my drone plugged and only play with gaidunitsa.

When i took gaidunitsa reed out, i didn´t found threads loose end so i simply used small piece of cotton thread to wrap it

around reed somewhat higher and by positioning it higher or lower i found where it plays D with top three holes closed.

Maybe i prevent it to vibrate enough this way... How do you tune yours ?

I wont be able to upload video, i don´t have camera and my old phone has a piss poor one, but hope i explained it well this time ?

Greetings,

Gaidarn00b

[Dimitar Vassilev]

Regarding tuning - me uses Korg CA40 http://www.korg.com/CA40. You should tune with the chanter only first and then plug the chanter in the valve and play.

I would attempt to contact the master of yours if I were you. Tuning is performed by pushing the cotton threads up or down until you reach the desired main tone on the reed. Get tallow/suet to anoint the threads on weekly basis.( both those on reeds and the rest). Get a good thick roll of cotton threads.

If you want to practice with chanter only get a Scottish practice chanter with plastic reeds. Or make plastic reeds yourself and give it a try. Wooden reeds are susceptible to moisture and then the tone is changed.

2014/1/6 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

[Gaidarn00b]

Thanks for recommendations, Див.

Honestly, i don´t know how to contact my gaida master. Bought it at Shopbulgaria, they do have master´s name listed here, but no contact for him,

i can only contact e-shop people. However, i consider this part of my learning curve, i just played it for maybe a hour total (can´t play here at my flat as not to

piss off all neighbours so i need to go spent some time in my cabin in forest for making any noise), plus it has been said brand new reed needs to break in,

so i would rather not stress it too much.

I do have GHB practice chanter with plastic reeds, need to check whether it fits the stock. (and have my mouthblown gaiditsa aswell, but it wouldnt fit.)

But i really need to practice this particular gaidanitsa fingering, as i having issues with it too. No visual clue on holes while i am playing

as the bag blocks direct visibility, plus the fact the lowest holes are pretty far each from another, i am having hard time being able covering low holes tightly.

I ened up using all fingers on my left hand for top holes and only three fingers on my right hand for bottom holes, as it doesn´t force me to have right hand fingers spread

to the max, thus allowing me to cover bottom holes tighter... don´t know if this won´t negatively affect my technique later.

 

One further thing i would like get explained, is this tallow/suet thing. I needed to check wikipedia to see what it is, and i need to check if i understand properly.

So it seems SUET is raw fat - so i can purchase it at butchery ? Does it matter what animal its from ?

Then this TALLOW, wiki says its"rendered form of beef or mutton fat, processed from suet" but i don´t understand what "rendered form" means. From the

picture it seems like glass filled with grease, in Slovakia we used to use beef grease as spread on bread for consumation, or for frying/baking food.

IS it the same thing ? Unfortunately, wikipedia doesn´t provide neither of these items directly in Slovak language so i can´t be sure.

Thanks to all who contributed, please be patient with me :-)

Gaidarn00b

[Dimitar Vassilev]

Hi,

You can try fitting the plastic reed of your GHB chanter to the dzhura one and try playing without a bag - e.g puffing with your cheeks as an air reservoir. Most of the times is quieter compared to having the full bagpipe blown out and quicker for checking a tune or so. Helps you see and understand faster too without the risk of damaging your dzhura reeds.

Even without blowing the bag, having your fingertips on the gaidunitza and practicing the notes and their measurements will help. Buy yourself a mirror / practice in front of a one.  Get notated compositions - start with simple ones. General principle here is to cover the holes with the first knuckle joint of your fingers where possible for both hands. If not - 2-3mm behind the 1st joint is OK. Avoid getting stiff and grasping your lower keys in an eagle-claw manner - it will slow you down when it comes to faster melodies.

There are 2 ways to play - left upper hand on top or right upper hand on top. I would go for right upper on top. Me is playing Kaba and when visiting Smolyan 2 years ago, one of the greatest pipers living advised me last year to switch hands. With lot of exercises in front of a mirror, I switched in 2 months and in 4 more I could play all my 20 songs I knew by then.

Regarding suet and tallow - you're right. You can use sheep suet or calf tallow. I use calf tallow, processed on water bath. 1kg or 33 oz are enough for 6 years. I have a big jar in the fridge and supply myself on the go in a drug testing cup. In another such a cup I keep olive and almond oil mixed 50/50 with bit of drops of tea tree oil for disinfection of the wooden parts and maintenance. Dip a cotton cloth in it and apply a small amounth on the wooden parts after playing and let it dry. Then swipe with the same cloth. This way your wood will look good even after 30+ years.

Finally don't rush and allow yourself to think and do the things your way. The more you play the better way you will find to move your fingers efficiently when performing. Gone are the times when Bulgarian masters and players could make a living only by playing/crafting and herding. There is not enough livestock to make the gaiduntza's and the drone pipes in the old way - fully/partially embodies in horn and having a good bag. The woods from which the best reeds are made are going away due to lack of beehives, It's quite an ecosystem if you think about it.

As a tip of the iceberg - if you want to really enjoy your playing and have a bit of healing effect, tune in 444Hz or 432Hz. If you need more information search over why. Get bagpipe records and listen to them.

2014/1/6 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

Thanks for recommendations, Див.

[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Див,

thanks for recommendations again. I was thinking playing in front of mirror, too. I´ll give it a try. I have lots of colleagues in rural areas who

keep their livestock so finding a cup of tallow wont take long. I´m gonna put some time into practicing now.

Thank you all guys,

Gaidarn00b

[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Kostadin,

i have finally burrowed a camera and recorded video, as my problem still exists.

You can download it here (around 5mins, 31MB):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42715432/mygaidaissues_PC.avi?dl=1

Here is list of issues displayed:

-base tone (should be D) not in tune, everytime i grab the gaida, it gives different tone: Csharp, E, F...

-misbehaving of lower notes: a hole under D often gives higher tone, not lower. Two bottom holes either not

  sounding at all, or gurgling / squeaking

-at least, i put a plastic reed in and it plays the whole scale just fine

Please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance.

Gaidarn00b

 

[Dimitar Vassilev]

Hi,
1. Rotate a bit the chanter on the left from what you show in the movie so that you can cover the holes with the first knuckle

2. Relax your fingers a bit more - you're pressing too much - see point 1 as well. You need to readjust in order to allow playing without pressure

3. Check the threads of your reed and if dry apply some tallow/suet

4. Try refitting your reed until you find the position where it plays close as possible to D. I would try first placing the vibrating part backwards so that it points to the hole of your thumb. Remember to pull with 2 fingers and not to press on the vibrating part while readjusting. If it doesn't help try placing it sideways ( 90, 180 and 270 degrees). Third step would be to readjust to between 10 and 15 degrees from the thumb hole - both right or left to see which fits best.

5. If you're not successful with step 4, try pushing the threads on the reed a bit up, to increase the pitch and repeat the procedure above. Check now it sounds now. If you have still higher low tones apply a bit of wax on the holes.

6. Your right hand should be on top of the drone pipe, not on top

7. Learn how to make use of your elbow to produce even and persistent tone. Currently you're not using your elbows at all.

8. If point 7 is too much, try learning with right hand on top. It will be slower to learn, but you will have better ergonomics.

The flaky sound is due to poorly closed holes, lack of pressure and badly tuned main tone. Give all tips a try and then write back :-)

2014/1/11 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

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[Gaidarn00b]

Hi  Див,

thanks for watching my video. I will try to go through your recommendations as soon as i get some free time. Thank you very much.

I´ll write here how it went.

Cheers.

 

[Kostadin Gerdjikov]

Hello,

the first major thing I notice is the position of the bag. You shoud place the bagpipe under your left arm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whithout any disrespect but you should pay attention, as Див, advised you, to the proper techique of keeping the constant air preasure in the bag. The chanter obviously needs some tuning but some of the tunes"run off" because you don't supply the bag with enough air and you don't work with the elbow at all as you were said. The site has some video lesseons. They may be for kaba-bagpipe but as for this basic level they can be applied to the djura as well. There you can see how to keep the air constant while playing.

All the things Див, wrote you are valuable. Try them. I can only add some more pieces of advice:

1) Check if you have pushed the reed to the bottom of the so called nest: the upper part of the chanter where the reed is places. You should push it down as much as possible. The important thing is to know where to stop.If you feel that you need to use force to push it down further stop.The reed should be put in and out of the chanter lightly without force.

2) I am not quite sure if it is gonna work for a sintetic reed like yours but with the wooden it works. The more you play, the more accurate the bagpipe will become.

 At the moment you lack some basic skills as placing the fingers in the proper way and keeping a constant air preasure. So if you ask me these are the things you shoul really concentrate on.

 Tune the bagpipe as close as possible to the neccessary tone and play. Reeds are no problem. You can always order others but to improve pay attention to the basics of the very playing.

3) Do you have a spare reed, besides the practise one?

Greetings,

Kostadin

2014/1/11 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

[Gaidarn00b]

Hello,

You´re right about bag position under my arm, i just tried it under my left arm and it definitely seems to be better now. Keep in mind, i´m just starting and i have no idea how to approach it.

Before shooting that video, i only practiced maybe twice, for few minutes so i´m  still kinda clueless. Some video lessons would help, but i can´t see any videos beside "lesson 01 introduction"

on this site.

1) Yes, reed is pushed all the way in.

2) I do lack basic skills, indeed. I decided to practice with my plastic reed, just to keep focusing on keeping steady airflow and learn proper fingering (and to avoid cops getting called by neighbours :-) ). I just tried it today and i guess it was better. Closing holes with my fingers knuckles helped to cover holes properly, and having the bag under my left arm alone contributed much to easier        control. 

3) Nope. But i am gonna order one, for sure.

Honestly, i was freaking out when i wasn´t able to get simple tune out of it first time i unboxed it, but now i know this can´t be rushed, and learning curve can´t be bypassed. I just had unrealistic expectations, i guess. So i will focus on constant air pressure and proper fingering first and when i advance i´ll try to tune it and then play with drone.

You have been of great help guys, thank you very much.

Greetings,

Gaidarn00b

[Kostadin Gerdjikov]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja0tOQTqrHM&list=PLzT7EBpDC3QwgkGQ9UcmUSq99bqcwcwfG

There are subtitles in english.

2014/1/12 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

[Dimitar Vassilev]

Once you feel like going further you may decide to drop here for 5 days in August - see http://akademia-orfei.com/folklor_en.htm.

2014/1/12 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

[Gaidarn00b]

Thanks for the link, Kostadin. I´m going through them videos now :-)

Dňa pondelok, 13. januára 2014 6:06:39 UTC+1 Див Планинец napísal(-a):

Once you feel like going further you may decide to drop here for 5 days in August - see http://akademia-orfei.com/folklor_en.htm.

Hmm, i may be too busy (and too poor) to attend these, but hey, you never know !  :-) 

Greetings guys.

Gaidarn00b

[Gaidarn00b]

Need some advice again.

Leather flapper valve in my "duhalo" leaks air, i want to replace it with rubber flapper valve (the kind that has a stick).

If i understand correctly, i need to unwrap threads, put that stick there, and then wrap it back.

Questions:

-can i put unwrapped thread back ? or do i need to use new one ? 

-how do i maintain proper thickness of thread wrap ? do i just check ocassionally if it fits the stock ?

-suppose the thread is waxed or something, what to put on it once it is in place ?

Thanks in advance.

Gaidarn00b

[Dimitar Vassilev]

See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/kabagaida/tXVzg9lvd00 for an easier solution.

Dovidenia,

D.

2014/1/17 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

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[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Див,
i´ve already read thread you linked to,  but to seal the pipe with a tongue doesn´t seem an easier solution, honestly.
To me it would be just another technique to focus on, and since i havent mastered the basics yet, i´ll rather
have valve working as intended.
So idecided to DIY rubber flapper on a brass pole, installed it, even without unwrapping the joint hemp (?), i
just pushed it under, and voila - its perfectly airtight now.
It seens to leak a bit when moisture buids up, but i just wipe it, add a touch of tallow and it seals completely again.
Pretty happy with how it turned out.

Back to practicing, heh.

Greetings,
Gaidarnoob

[Dimitar Vassilev]

Generally I use olive oil to soak in my blow pipe after playing. Tallow builds up and causes a nice rot layer in no time. You can use your upper lip to seal the air leak during playing. As you play you will find your way out.

Best,

2014-01-26 Gaidarn00b via Kaba Gaida <kabagaida+noreply-APn2wQffVgdM-N...@googlegroups.com>

[Gaidarn00b]

Hi gaidars,

i am back with more problems :-(

So after practicing some time with my plastic reed, i thought its warm enough to go to my cabin and use real reeds, drone and everything.

But my initial problem persists: my original gaidunitsa reed wont play scale right. It plays random pitches when i try to play scale or tune.

Like, when i open higher hole to play higher tone, i get lower tone instead. Also, sometimes some holes play different pitch everytime i play them.

Very unusual. I guess this reed is dead, what do you think ?

I have ordered spare set of reeds, and this new reed plays scale right. But, the tongue is too closed, so it chokes instantly. How do you

"open" the reed´s tongue so it doesn´t choke ? i would not want to destroy it by trying to fix it blindly.

Another thing, i tried to check drone if it´s in tune, and it is, but when i applied a bit of pressure it choked too, so i wold need an advice here too.

Also, to get the drone to D, i need to have all three parts of drone pushed in fully, but the threading is too tight and i don´t wanna crack it. Is it

OK to cut the thread and unwrap a bit to get a lighter grip ? If yes, what to do with thread´s loose end ? Is it OK just let it loose ?

I guess its a bit sad that when purchasing my first gaida i got chanter reed that doesn´t work at all, do you think i can expect the e-shop to

replace it for me 4 months after purchase ?

Thanks for being patient with me guys, i have a feeling this is still not the end of my struggle :-) 

[Kostadin Gerdjikov]

Hello,

first, as for the new reed. I would advice you not to "open" it. It is usual for the new reeds sometimes to be a bit tight and that is a good thing because in time the tongue of the reed gets looser and requires more air pressure. That is why if the reeds require a lot of air in the beginning it may get unusable at a later stage. I hope these days I will have enough time to make a short video on how to treat your reed in such cases as to work with a bit more air pressure without destroying it. I hope you will have the patience for this.

Second, as for the drone, I would ask you to make a short video so that I can get what's the problem. Is it that you don't keep the air pressure in the right way, is it that the reed of the drone requires a different amount of air pressure that the new chanter reed and gets chocked?

Yes, you can remove the threads, it is as simple as it may be, you cannot harm the bagpipe. Just be careful with the threats of the reeds.

Maybe I repeat myself, excuse for this, if it so, but I would advice you to play, even if it is only with the chanter. For me personally to try to tune every single tone every time at the beginning of learning the bagpipe is a mistake. Don't get me wrong. I don't favor ill-pitched bagpipes.Just practice will, TEACH you a lot. Believe me.

In short if the only problem with the new reed is the chocking, just play, play, play.

Do you have sheep tallow by the way.

Greetings,

Kostadin

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[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Kostadin,

Thanks for quick reply. I didn´t make it clear enough, but this chanter reed chokes as soon as i start to blow it, so practicing it is impossible. I was only able to play some scales and a quick tune by mouth, as soon as i put it in it choked and stayed mute. 

Drone reed is not a big issue, still have new one so i can swap them if needed. Knowing how to fix it will come in handy, for sure.

I´ll record a video tomorrow and post here.

Hope we´ll get this sorted finally :-)

Greetings,

Gaidarn00b

[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Kostadin,

got some good news. My new reed opened up by itself since yesterday, so today i was able to play it. Now i only got problem with overblowing (on lower holes). Here is link to video i just recorded :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42715432/new%20reed_PC.avi?dl=1

(cca 10MB)  it doesn´t overblows that horribly in the video, but most of time it does, so all holes below C give me higher octave.

Also, when i played with both drone and chanter, drone wasn´t choking at all, so i guess it chokes only with full bag pressure (when chanter doesn´t play), so it seems with pressure divided between both pipes, drone is OK. So this is fixed already.

Now only to fix that overblowing issueand i am all set :-) Hope you´ll come up with some solution.

Greetings,

Gaidarn00b

 

[Kostadin Gerdjikov]

Hello,

I asked a friend(Emilian Todinov) who plays the djura bagpipe to watch your video and give some advice. He wrote me the following

"Hi Gaidarn,

I watched your video yesterday and I saw that your bagpipe requires bigger pressure than you give it. So, just push down the bag harder and blow more air. Also, the lamella of your reed should be rubbed with nail in the lower part because it stands to close to the body of the reed."

Greetings,

Kostadin

[Gaidarn00b]

Hi Kostadin,

thanks for your friend´s advice. But i would need more guidance as to how to rub the reed: do i have to rub with nail´s edge, as to scrape it ? Or with flat nail ?

Also, haven´t been able to source sheep nor calf tallow. I would need some readily available alternative. I have deer tallow, which is a lipstick balm, commercional

product. Can i try it ? Also, it would help to understand what is tallow purpose: is it used to make reed oily ? If so, wouldn´t olive oil work ?

Thanks for your patience with me.

Gaidarn00b

[Цветелин Андреев]

Video tutorial would be great.

Olive oil is not used. One guess is that in the past olive oil was not so easy to find here in contrast with the tallow. Other thing could be the properties of the olive oil against these of the tallow.

[Kostadin Gerdjikov]

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