ABCTE is a Good Option to fill Teacher Shortage, Pt 2
Wide Eyed in Wonder
information about ABCTE and state certification that many in the other
group intend to ignore (despite my repeated posts of the information).
To help satisfy the shortage of teachers in the classroom, ABCTE
offers a program that allows career changers to enter the classroom
and be professionally certified. The state of Florida (my focus)
accepts ABCTE's training on par with the state's own programs.
To be qualified to teach in Florida, you must have a temporary or
professional teaching certificate. ABCTE is not a means to the
temporary teaching certificate, it assumes you already have that. A
temporary teaching certificate is achieved through having a degree in
any field, and establishing subject area qualification by way of
classes or the subject area test offered by the state. It is this
certificate that allows individuals in ABCTE, the district's own
alternative certification program, EPI training teachers (at
community colleges), and more to enter the classroom, while they are
finishing the remaining qualifications for the professional
certificate.
Now, to achieve professional certification, you must build upon your
temporary certificate in one of multiple options. They are (as given
from the state's own site):
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/mast_prof.asp
You may demonstrate mastery of Professional Preparation and Education
Competence by any one of the following:
* Completion of a state-approved teacher preparation program from
a Florida institution and achievement of a passing score on the
Florida Professional Education Test
* Completion of a teacher preparation program from an out-of-state
accredited or approved institution and achievement of a passing score
on the Florida Professional Education Test
* Completion of a Florida state-approved alternative certification
program and achievement of a passing score on the Florida Professional
Education Test
* Completion of an approved Florida Educator Preparation Institute
program and achievement of a passing score on the Florida Professional
Education Test
* Completion of specified education courses, completion of
teaching experience requirement, completion of an approved
professional education competence demonstration program, and
achievement of a passing score on the Florida Professional Education
Test
* Completion of an approved Florida College Professional Training
Option for Content Majors, completion of teaching experience
requirement, completion of an approved professional education
competence demonstration program, and achievement of a passing score
on the Florida Professional Education Test
* A valid standard teaching certificate issued by a US state or
territory
* A valid certificate issued by the National Board for
Professional Teaching Standards
* A valid certificate issued by the American Board for
Certification of Teacher Excellence and completion of an approved
professional education competence demonstration program
* Completion of two (2) semesters of full-time college teaching
experience
Now, under the ABCTE option, above, it says that all that remains is
"completion of an approved professional education competence
demonstration program." This is NOT the district's Alternative
Certification Program (ACP). That is another option, entirely, given
above to achieve professional certification. However, they follow the
same track. Here are the two options presented.
1. Alternative Certification Program (specific district considered is
Hillsborough County in Florida)
-complete online coursework
-complete teaching competency observation of the 12 accomplished
practices
-take the professional teaching test by the state.
2. ABCTE
-either demonstrate sufficient prior knowledge of teaching knowledge
or take supplemental course work. NO district training is required.
-complete teaching competency observation of the 12 accomplished
practices
-take the professional teaching test by ABCTE (accepted by the state
of Florida in substitute for their own).
In BOTH options, the candidate starts teaching in a classroom without
experience with children. In BOTH options, the candidate must achieve
knowledge of teaching skills (on own or by a class).
In BOTH options, the candidate is observed (for the same length of
time) to determine if they are competent (informal assessment).
In BOTH options, the candidate must pass a teaching knowledge
examination.
In NEITHER option is the candidate assigned a mentor.
So, ABCTE fits the same bill as the district training program
(again..another program entirely), except that ABCTE has the advantage
that the candidate will have ALREADY passed a teaching knowledge test
upon entering the classroom (if ABCTE is done prior), while there is
NO requirement that the district's alternative certification candidate
has demonstrated this knowledge before being in front of children.
Finally, other links...
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Profoptions.pdf
-this shows the multiple options to achieve professional certification
in graphical form.
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
-this gives the requirements for the temporary certificate, the
professional certificate, and the requirements (at the bottom) to move
from a temporary to professional certificate in Florida.
I hope...HOPE...this clears things up.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
One more note...just got this...
http://www.abcte.org/system/files/ABCTE_PraxisII_FullMPR_Report.pdf
According to this report, hosted at the ABCTE site, a research firm
(Mathematica Policy Research) found that ABCTE's tests are harder and
have a lower passage rate than Praxis in Math, Elementary Ed, and
Professional Teaching exams.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
jingojones
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f0e9e796-746d-4780...@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
That very same report also says:
"Figure 4 shows the percentage of test takers passing each exam. The pass
rates for the Praxis exams are based on the highest and lowest state cut
scores. A higher pass rate (taller bar) suggests that the exam is less
difficult to pass, and a lower pass rate (shorter bar) suggests that the
exam is more difficult."
I doubt their critera for determining the "difficulty" of the tests being
considered yield any useful information.
mark
Bob LeChevalier
>http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/mast_prof.asp
>
>You may demonstrate mastery of Professional Preparation and Education
>Competence by any one of the following:
> * A valid certificate issued by the American Board for
>Certification of Teacher Excellence and completion of an approved
>professional education competence demonstration program
>Now, under the ABCTE option, above, it says that all that remains is
>"completion of an approved professional education competence
>demonstration program." This is NOT the district's Alternative
>Certification Program (ACP).
Prove it. The District's ACP program happens to be the "approved
professional education competence demonstration program." in
Hillsborough County. There is no evidence of any other such program.
>2. ABCTE
>-either demonstrate sufficient prior knowledge of teaching knowledge
>or take supplemental course work. NO district training is required.
>-complete teaching competency observation of the 12 accomplished
>practices
>-take the professional teaching test by ABCTE (accepted by the state
>of Florida in substitute for their own).
Please provide a cite that says that no district training is required
in Hillsborough County.
>In BOTH options, the candidate starts teaching in a classroom without
>experience with children. In BOTH options, the candidate must achieve
>knowledge of teaching skills (on own or by a class).
>In BOTH options, the candidate is observed (for the same length of
>time) to determine if they are competent (informal assessment).
>In BOTH options, the candidate must pass a teaching knowledge
>examination.
>In NEITHER option is the candidate assigned a mentor.
Your word, vs the state and county pages cited, is mud.
>So, ABCTE fits the same bill as the district training program
No it does not. You still need that "approved professional education
competence demonstration program."
Note the key word "approved". It has to be a full program that has
approval by the state. It can't be a deal.
>(again..another program entirely), except that ABCTE has the advantage
>that the candidate will have ALREADY passed a teaching knowledge test
>upon entering the classroom (if ABCTE is done prior),
That is ALL that ABCTE gives you.
>Finally, other links...
>
>http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Profoptions.pdf
>-this shows the multiple options to achieve professional certification
>in graphical form.
"Must Demonstrate Professional Education Competence in the Classroom"
aka the county ACP program.
>http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
>-this gives the requirements for the temporary certificate, the
>professional certificate, and the requirements (at the bottom) to move
>from a temporary to professional certificate in Florida.
"and Demonstration of Professional Education Competence in the
Classroom"
aka the county ACP program.
>I hope...HOPE...this clears things up.
Actually, it just repeats the same old same old. You have yet to
provide any evidence that ABCTE allows you to evade the county ACP
program with ALL of its requirements for completion.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>According to this report, hosted at the ABCTE site, a research firm
>(Mathematica Policy Research) found that ABCTE's tests are harder and
>have a lower passage rate than Praxis in Math, Elementary Ed, and
>Professional Teaching exams.
Actually, per figure 4, and the accompanying text, ONLT Elementary ed
is harder. The other two depend on whether the state has low
standards or high standards for the Praxis. The higher standard
Praxis is harder to get than passing the ABCTE tests in those areas.
lojbab
Wide Eyed in Wonder
The average of the two praxis is higher than ABCTE.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:>http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/mast_prof.asp
>
> >You may demonstrate mastery of Professional Preparation and Education
> >Competence by any one of the following:
>
> ...
>
> > * A valid certificate issued by the American Board for
> >Certification of Teacher Excellence and completion of an approved
> >professional education competence demonstration program
> >Now, under the ABCTE option, above, it says that all that remains is
> >"completion of an approved professional education competence
> >demonstration program." This is NOT the district's Alternative
> >Certification Program (ACP).
>
> Prove it. The District's ACP program happens to be the "approved
> professional education competence demonstration program." in
> Hillsborough County. There is no evidence of any other such program.
>
No. It CONTAINS the district's competence program. However, that is
just one side of ACP (thus my earlier comments that ABCTE fulfills
half of the ACP's requirements). If you have ABCTE, you don't have to
do the first half. That is the difference. They accept ABCTE in leu
of their own training.
> >2. ABCTE
> >-either demonstrate sufficient prior knowledge of teaching knowledge
> >or take supplemental course work. NO district training is required.
> >-complete teaching competency observation of the 12 accomplished
> >practices
> >-take the professional teaching test by ABCTE (accepted by the state
> >of Florida in substitute for their own).
>
> Please provide a cite that says that no district training is required
> in Hillsborough County.
See the end of this reply...
>
> >In BOTH options, the candidate starts teaching in a classroom without
> >experience with children. In BOTH options, the candidate must achieve
> >knowledge of teaching skills (on own or by a class).
> >In BOTH options, the candidate is observed (for the same length of
> >time) to determine if they are competent (informal assessment).
> >In BOTH options, the candidate must pass a teaching knowledge
> >examination.
> >In NEITHER option is the candidate assigned a mentor.
>
> Your word, vs the state and county pages cited, is mud.
>
I QUOTED the state, in my post, showing my words correct.
> >So, ABCTE fits the same bill as the district training program
>
> No it does not. You still need that "approved professional education
> competence demonstration program."
> Note the key word "approved". It has to be a full program that has
> approval by the state. It can't be a deal.
Two different letters in the Florida statute...see the end of this
reply...
>
> >(again..another program entirely), except that ABCTE has the advantage
> >that the candidate will have ALREADY passed a teaching knowledge test
> >upon entering the classroom (if ABCTE is done prior),
>
> That is ALL that ABCTE gives you.
>
> >Finally, other links...
>
> >http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Profoptions.pdf
> >-this shows the multiple options to achieve professional certification
> >in graphical form.
>
> "Must Demonstrate Professional Education Competence in the Classroom"
> aka the county ACP program.
No. You only have to do HALF of what they must do.
>
> >http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
> >-this gives the requirements for the temporary certificate, the
> >professional certificate, and the requirements (at the bottom) to move
> >from a temporary to professional certificate in Florida.
>
> "and Demonstration of Professional Education Competence in the
> Classroom"
> aka the county ACP program.
See below....
>
> >I hope...HOPE...this clears things up.
>
> Actually, it just repeats the same old same old. You have yet to
> provide any evidence that ABCTE allows you to evade the county ACP
> program with ALL of its requirements for completion.
>
> lojba
In the Florida statute concerning this at....
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1012/SEC56.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh1012-%3ESection%2056#1012.56
...it says in (5)(F) that the "professional education competence
demonstration program" is found in (7)(b). The district's alternative
certification system is, according to (5)(G) found in (7)(a).
(7)(a) is the "cohesive competency-based professional preparation
alternative certification program," which contains BOTH "mastery of
professional preparation" and "education competence requirements
specified in this subsection" (two separate parts).
(7)(b), which is the professional educator competence demonstration
program, says, in whole...
"Each school district must and a state supported public school or a
private school may develop and maintain a system by which members of
the instructional staff may demonstrate mastery of professional
education competence as required by law. Each program must be based on
classroom application and instructional performance and must include a
performance evaluation plan for documenting the demonstration of
required professional education competence."
Thus, they are two separate situations with different legal
requirements. While the district's ACP program requires training
(which makes sense in absence of ABCTE), there is no such rule for
ABCTE (or for the college course option for certification that
likewise demands a "professional educator competence demonstration
program"), but it only requires an observation and assessment of the
competence of the educator (JUST AS I SAID).
Indeed, it makes no sense that those that take all the Education
courses required in college (the "professional preparation college
courses" option for Professional Certification)....
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Profoptions.pdf
...would have to RETAKE that training. Yet, they are also required to
take a 'professional educator competence demonstration program" in the
Florida statute. If the PECD program includes all that ACP includes,
it would A>be forcing them to take the same training twice (as with
ABCTE students) and B> make it irrelevant as a separate option from
the ACP.
Indeed, that alone should convince you. If the ABCTE and professional
course options had to retake the training of the ACP, as part of their
demonstration program, what would distinguish them FROM the ACP
program. In that case, they wouldn't be pathways to certification (as
the state says) but options within ACP.
Again, I hope this detailed response is enough to satisfy you. At
this point, considering the large amount of references I have
provided, I will expect YOU to provide links and references as to why
Hillsborough would be an exception to the state statute and rules I
have provided.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Larry Hewitt
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d849caa3-96c2-4a6e...@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
This is a good link, too.
COuld it be that you don't intend to get permanent certification, or don't
know what you have to do to get permanent certification (as sumbuny asked a
long time ago>
According tot his link http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
All you need to do to get past the first year with an ABCTE is pass the
observation. But he certificate is dead after 3 years ( as another post I
authored mentioned, florida is unusual in this, as other states require that
even ABCTE holders work to permanent certifiaction or their one year
temporary cert is not renewed).
If so, it never occured to me that you go through all of this for a job no
longer than 3 years (with the uncertaintity that you may not get picked up
for years 2 and 3).
If _all_ that is required is an ABCTE and passing classroom observation,
then I will most strongly, and unequivocably state that this is a crock,
that ABCTE teachers are inferior to teachers in all the other programs, even
the other alternative programs, and that FLorida is doing a great disservice
to its children
The other florida alternative programs reuire passing essentially the same
tests and observation, PLUS aselection from 2 seemesters of college
teaching, completing the ACP program , teh EPI program, additional college
education, and additional exams.
That _cannot_ happen in SOuth Carolina or any of the other state I am aware
of.
Larry
stevericks
tests). Best I remember, it is designed to be a minimal competency exam.
I was a member of the 26 individuals that comprised the design team for
PRAXIS. We were doing some things that were cutting edge back then with it.
Now, they are quite common.
Steve
"jingojones" <ma...@nospamjones.com> wrote in message
news:47d03673$0$4066$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
jingojones
"stevericks" <steve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:N03Aj.4343$rC6...@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Just a note on PRAXIS (I assume you are talking about the PRAXIS II
> subject tests). Best I remember, it is designed to be a minimal
> competency exam. I was a member of the 26 individuals that comprised the
> design team for PRAXIS. We were doing some things that were cutting edge
> back then with it. Now, they are quite common.
My assumption is that both Praxis and the ABCTE tests are minimal
compentency tests. As such, it wouldn't be a big surprise to find that those
trained to pass the tests would be able to pass the tests.
mark
sf
wrote:
>My assumption is that both Praxis and the ABCTE tests are minimal
>compentency tests. As such, it wouldn't be a big surprise to find that those
>trained to pass the tests would be able to pass the tests.
What test isn't a minimal competency test?
--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smile first
Bob LeChevalier
>> >Certification of Teacher Excellence and completion of an approved
>> >professional education competence demonstration program
>> >Now, under the ABCTE option, above, it says that all that remains is
>> >"completion of an approved professional education competence
>> >demonstration program." This is NOT the district's Alternative
>> >Certification Program (ACP).
>>
>> Prove it. The District's ACP program happens to be the "approved
>> professional education competence demonstration program." in
>> Hillsborough County. There is no evidence of any other such program.
>>
>
> No. It CONTAINS the district's competence program.
Cite please, that there is anything less than the full ACP required.
>> >In BOTH options, the candidate starts teaching in a classroom without
>> >experience with children. In BOTH options, the candidate must achieve
>> >knowledge of teaching skills (on own or by a class).
>> >In BOTH options, the candidate is observed (for the same length of
>> >time) to determine if they are competent (informal assessment).
>> >In BOTH options, the candidate must pass a teaching knowledge
>> >examination.
>> >In NEITHER option is the candidate assigned a mentor.
>>
>> Your word, vs the state and county pages cited, is mud.
>
>I QUOTED the state, in my post, showing my words correct.
The things marked as quotes do not support your claim.
>> >So, ABCTE fits the same bill as the district training program
>>
>> No it does not. You still need that "approved professional education
>> competence demonstration program."
>> Note the key word "approved". It has to be a full program that has
>> approval by the state. It can't be a deal.
>
>Two different letters in the Florida statute...see the end of this
>reply...
They don't support you.
>> >http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Profoptions.pdf
>> >-this shows the multiple options to achieve professional certification
>> >in graphical form.
>>
>> "Must Demonstrate Professional Education Competence in the Classroom"
>> aka the county ACP program.
>
>No. You only have to do HALF of what they must do.
Your evidence is lacking.
>> "and Demonstration of Professional Education Competence in the
>> Classroom"
>> aka the county ACP program.
>
>See below....
>
>
>In the Florida statute concerning this at....
>http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch1012/SEC56.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh1012-%3ESection%2056#1012.56
>
>...it says in (5)(F) that the "professional education competence
>demonstration program" is found in (7)(b). The district's alternative
>certification system is, according to (5)(G) found in (7)(a).
>
>(7)(a) is the "cohesive competency-based professional preparation
>alternative certification program," which contains BOTH "mastery of
>professional preparation" and "education competence requirements
>specified in this subsection" (two separate parts).
>
>(7)(b), which is the professional educator competence demonstration
>program, says, in whole...
>
>"Each school district must and a state supported public school or a
>private school may develop and maintain a system by which members of
>the instructional staff may demonstrate mastery of professional
>education competence as required by law. Each program must be based on
>classroom application and instructional performance and must include a
>performance evaluation plan for documenting the demonstration of
>required professional education competence."
The system in question in Hillsborough County is the ACP, as cited
several times. It includes courses, a plan, and observations. There
is nothing in the text of those pages that suggest that *any* portion
is waived for any alternate certification teacher.
>Thus, they are two separate situations with different legal
>requirements.
There is only one program in Hillsborough County.
> While the district's ACP program requires training
>(which makes sense in absence of ABCTE),
It makes sense even with ABCTE.
>there is no such rule for
>ABCTE (or for the college course option for certification that
>likewise demands a "professional educator competence demonstration
>program"), but it only requires an observation and assessment of the
>competence of the educator (JUST AS I SAID).
No. per the law (7b) you quoted it requires
>"a system by which members of
>the instructional staff may demonstrate mastery of professional
>education competence as required by law. Each program must be based on
>classroom application and instructional performance and must include a
>performance evaluation plan for documenting the demonstration of
>required professional education competence."
That is NOT merely an observation and assessment. The word "plan" is
in there.
>Indeed, it makes no sense that those that take all the Education
>courses required in college (the "professional preparation college
>courses" option for Professional Certification)....
>http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Profoptions.pdf
>...would have to RETAKE that training. Yet, they are also required to
>take a 'professional educator competence demonstration program" in the
>Florida statute.
From the law you quoted
"1(a) If the applicant meets the requirements, a professional
certificate covering the classification, level, and area for which the
applicant is deemed qualified and a document explaining the
requirements for renewal of the professional certificate"
No 'professional educator competence demonstration program" is
required under 1a), but ABCTE doesn't meet that, because you need the
competence demonstration to qualify with ABCTE, thereby pushing you
into 1b) as you quoted.
>Again, I hope this detailed response is enough to satisfy you. At
>this point, considering the large amount of references I have
>provided, I will expect YOU to provide links and references as to why
>Hillsborough would be an exception to the state statute and rules I
>have provided.
Because ABCTE certification requires a "professional educator
competence demonstration program" and the ONLY one in Hillsborough
County is the ACP program, which has no provisions in the cited pages
that describe it for someone to skip parts of it if they have ABCTE.
The coursework required for that program is much less than that
required for a normal professional certification. 188 hours is about
4 1/2 weeks at 40 hours per week, or about 6 weeks of the normal
elementary school day. Since you are already an employee, you
probably get paid for this time, so it is not the same as the
education student approach.
Now since I can only cite the state and Hillsborough County webpages
that do not in fact exempt ABCTE people from all of the ACP, you can
choose to believe whatever you want - I don't care; I don't even
intend to be anywhere near a Hillsborough Co school, and my kids are
already out of school.
Just be prepared for those extra weeks. Or not - it's your career.
lojbab
jingojones
<sf> wrote in message news:v9l1t3p5an1nrq82p...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:58:46 -0600, "jingojones" <ma...@nospamjones.com>
> wrote:
>
>>My assumption is that both Praxis and the ABCTE tests are minimal
>>compentency tests. As such, it wouldn't be a big surprise to find that
>>those
>>trained to pass the tests would be able to pass the tests.
>
> What test isn't a minimal competency test?
So called "norm -referenced" tests, for one. Or another flavor of the same
thing - tests given in classes where success or failure is determined by
"the curve."
mark
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:d849caa3-96c2-4a6e...@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> All you need to do to get past the first year with an ABCTE is pass the
> observation. But he certificate is dead after 3 years ( as another post I
> authored mentioned, florida is unusual in this, as other states require that
> even ABCTE holders work to permanent certifiaction or their one year
> temporary cert is not renewed).
>
> If so, it never occured to me that you go through all of this for a job no
> longer than 3 years (with the uncertaintity that you may not get picked up
> for years 2 and 3).
>
> If _all_ that is required is an ABCTE and passing classroom observation,
> then I will most strongly, and unequivocably state that this is a crock,
> that ABCTE teachers are inferior to teachers in all the other programs, even
> the other alternative programs, and that FLorida is doing a great disservice
> to its children
>
> The other florida alternative programs reuire passing essentially the same
> tests and observation, PLUS aselection from 2 seemesters of college
> teaching, completing the ACP program , teh EPI program, additional college
> education, and additional exams.
>
I am TIRED of correcting your misinformation. So, I will correct this
one, and, then, I am done with you. I don't have time for doing all
your research...as I said from the start. According to the pathways
link you provided (which I ALSO provided), you are incorrect. All you
looked at was the temporary section. Look BELOW that for how you move
from temporary to permanent. It says nothing about any of the
requirements you suggest. Instead, ALL it requires in the observation
program...JUST AS I SAID.
Look, Larry. You obviously do very little research, declare your
wisdom as absolute, and require your opponent to correct you. I don't
have the time. So, just go ahead and post your next inaccuracy. I
give up. If you are not going to read the official links and statutes
I provide, you aren't here to learn but to fight, and I choose not to
engage.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
I give the same answer I gave Larry (assuming you are not the same
person). I don't have time to do your research, and you, apparently,
cannot do it on your own. So, I will answer this misinformation, and,
then, I plan on letting you be wrong on this.
State law says only observation is required. The ACP program uses a
separate program for is observation (a pre-existing obsevation program
called FPMS). Info can be found here...
https://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/staff_inservice_new/Documents/index.asp#ACP_Training
This is the portion that ABCTE grads need to fulfill....and ONLY this
portion. However, EVEN WITHIN THE ACP, there is an initial screening
done for existing skills within the teacher. If they conclude you
have the skills, you don't have to do the online coursework. Thus,
either way, ABCTE grads need only do the observation...JUST AS I SAID.
I tire of this. You absolutely MUST be right and will not admit error
(from prior experience with you). You are wrong here. Thus, I don't
expect you to accept constructive criticism (an early education
skill). So, go ahead and be wrong.
I don't see the purpose of your criticism, anyway. It would seem
(with your suggestion that the ABCTE option using ACP) that you are
saying ABCTE grads would end up using a mentor, doing district
training, and having an EXTRA qualification in the form of an ABCTE
certificate. I don't believe that to be true, but, if you want to
say I will be MORE qualified by way of the ABCTE route, fine.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd182327-b455-4127...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bd182327-b455-4127...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
You might be right in the technical legalities of this...but one thing you
need to consider....how shall I put this..political the school atmosphere
can be. You might be "technically" correct in this, and be on a high horse,
but if someone does not wish to pass you, they can find fault with miniscule
things--after all, nobody is perfect--and keep you on tenterhooks for your
three years while principals move you from class to class with your temp
cert...I have seen it happen with new teachers who have developed a
"troublesome" reputation...and if you have come in without an experience in
a classroom at all (i.e., no practica to speak of, which is what it sounds
like), then it is possible that you might have the "book knowledge" of
classroom management in large groups, but not the practical
experience--which can backfire if you are not careful.
This might not be the "done deal" you are hoping for in your "automatic
path" from temp to full cert that you are describing....don't count those
chickens hatched quite yet...
I would like to see you back here in 5 years to let us know how it worked
out for you...
Larry Hewitt
EXCEPT:
1. You are the one making the claim and it is your responsibi;lity to
support it, if you eant to be believed.
2: You supposedly already have done the research because yoou claim to be in
the program and you clai to have authoritative knowledge.
as I said from the start. According to the pathways
> link you provided (which I ALSO provided), you are incorrect. All you
> looked at was the temporary section. Look BELOW that for how you move
> from temporary to permanent. It says nothing about any of the
> requirements you suggest. Instead, ALL it requires in the observation
> program...JUST AS I SAID.
>
Not according to what I read.
I have posted quotes from the section, and they do not say theat. They s
Larry
stevericks
The GRE. It is normed on second year PhD candidates, I believe. Tough
test.
Steve
<sf> wrote in message news:v9l1t3p5an1nrq82p...@4ax.com...