ABCTE is a Good Idea!
Wide Eyed in Wonder
to inform others of my recent change in my Education training. I
fully expect this change to be attacked by those with a personal
vendetta against me (I offended them in the past or such), but I
wanted to get it out in the open, so we can move on from it.
I guess I should give a little context. I had finished a Religion
degree from Liberty University. It became necessary for me to get a
job to cover my wife's lost income, when she stopped working, due to a
disability. So, I started school for a MAT degree to cover the
requirements to teach Elementary Education, having enjoyed teaching my
daughter at home for many years. Actually, I didn't need the degree,
being qualified, already, for a temporary teaching certificate from
Florida (have the Statement of Eligibility, now), and I could use
their ACP program or EPI to finish the rest of the requirements. But,
I figured that, with my wife's disability, I couldn't teach right now,
anyway. So, I started the degree program. In ONE semester, I
completed 19 credits of teaching courses, including Schools and
Society, Human Development and Learning, Diversity and Inclusion,
Classroom Management, Testing, and Instructional Presentation and
Follow-up...among others. However, at the end of the semester, I
didn't feel I had really LEARNED anything (already knew most of it and
didn't need to do much studying to get near perfect scores on my
papers and assignments). Meanwhile, I had racked up a large student
debt. So, I started looking for other options. This led me to ABCTE.
ABCTE is a competency passing program. You gain your certificate by
passing exams on your subject area and teaching knowledge. It is
basically the effect of having passed the state subject test (which
I've also done) and the state teachers test. After you demonstrate
your knowledge by passing these difficult tests (only 40 percent
pass), you still must demonstrate your teaching ability in the
classroom (just like every other teaching training program) to be
fully certified, which requires passing the 12 Accomplished Practices
(closely tied to the interstate required competencies) by
observation. At present, ABCTE is a fully accepted method of gaining
certification in Florida, Mississippi, South Carolina, Pennsylvania,
New Hampshire, and such. As of this last week, Missouri's state
Senate approved a bill to use ABCTE, as well. It goes to the House
there, next, and the state governor is already behind the program.
There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
guess...put them out of business. However, it just makes sense, in
our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
(with observation) be fully certified.
So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
teachrmama
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
<chuckle> You really *are* going to have to do something about that
persecution complex, Kenneth.
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
> guess...put them out of business. However, it just makes sense, in
> our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
> assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
> (with observation) be fully certified.
>
> So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
> program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
> my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
> in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
>
> Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
> begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
>
> <chuckle> You really *are* going to have to do something about that
> persecution complex, Kenneth.
I've had good reason to develop one, but...looking at your past posts
(prior to our discussions), I guess you know all about that.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
teachrmama
About what? Your good reason to have a persecution complex? I really don't
have any idea what you are talking about on that score. As for ABCTE, I
have no problem with alternate paths to certification. A couple of our best
teachers came to us through alternative licensing plans. Why would anybody
attack you for that?
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:37b4c90e-0c39-40a1...@x30g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Ok. Then, I admit to false presumption about you with this. Sorry to
assume you'd try to use it to nail me.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
jingojones
ABCTE is not an acceptable option in my state of Louisiana. ABCTE is not an
acceptable option where my grandson lives in Virgina, either. I wonder,
however, if what you really want to talk about is " lies and hypocrisy,"
then why do you bother to even mention ABCTE at all?
mark
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Bob LeChevalier
>There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
>guess...put them out of business.
No. They probably fear that it could put incompetent jerks like you
in a classroom, and they'd be right.
>Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
>begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
It has nothing to do with your being a "conservative", and not much to
do with your being a "religious nut", though I suspect that
constitution violations would be a regular thing with you in the
"pulpit" of the classroom.
Your behavior in the newsgroups is why no one respects you. Your
seemingly willful lack of reading comprehension makes it scary to
think that you might teach some kid to read the way you do, not to
mention the things that you are sure you know that are absolutely
wrong.
I'm curious what subject you are going to try to qualify in.
lojbab
Rowley
Martin
Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:
> Not being one to avoid confession or run from confrontation, I wanted
> to inform others of my recent change in my Education training. I
> fully expect this change to be attacked by those with a personal
> vendetta against me (I offended them in the past or such), but I
> wanted to get it out in the open, so we can move on from it.
Seems to me you 'like' doing things the way you do... which I guess is
true for most people.
Which goes to show that the "regular" way of making teachers isn't
producing enough teachers. That enough people just aren't willing to
enter the profession that way - so alternative methods are needed, as
well as alternative candidates.
There are lots of places where it's enought just to have a "warm body"
in the classroom. Least that was the case at times where I was working.
VzgIORN1R3lyZqpVkLwTPi64JH1uT2OcltWY45%0A80VTBqJ2oAsvcp%2FsOsmZI7fnDEWbfVCud4bmkFb28ScwMiv3IvAJ%2FNaTkC6KiuYzRU3tYys%3D
>
> There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
> guess...put them out of business.
Keep in mind that only about 1/2 the states potentially have unions that
"are in business"... About 1/2 the states are Right-to-Work states,
where union involvement isn't much of an issue. Here where I am in Texas
for instance, most teachers I know aren't even in a union - most seem to
instead join professional associations (mainly to get the low cost
liability insurance) like Texas Classroom Teacher Association TCTA
http://www.tcta.org/index.html
> However, it just makes sense, in
> our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
> assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
> (with observation) be fully certified.
We (Texas) have had altenative ways of becoming a teacher for awhile now.
http://www.sbec.state.tx.us/SBECOnline/certinfo/becometeacher.asp?width=1600&height=1200
But IMO the issue isn't one of whether or not someone can get certified,
it is whether or not they can actually survive their first couple years
on the job in a classroom. I've know a number of people pursuing the
alternative route who seemed highly qualified who either lasted a year
or in some cases just the first semester.
> So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
> program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
> my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
> in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
>
> Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
> begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
Just curious - not meant as an "attack"... Are you going to try and be a
regular public school classroom teacher?
Martin
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
Cary Kittrell
Not "persecution". "Martyr".
Becket himself was not half so eager.
-- cary
SumBuny
"teachrmama" <teach...@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:fqb0l...@news2.newsguy.com...
If you really want to teach in Florida, you are going to have to take the
FTCE:
http://www.fldoe.org/asp/ftce/
I have already taken the first of the three (General Knowledge), have taken
the field test for the third (Special Education)....and if you do not fell
as if you have "really learned anything" from your courses, I would suggest
that you either (1) Consider taking the FTCE and proving to yourself that
you "know it all already" (or don't, and therefor need to complete your
education) (2) Consider taking traditional courses in addition to
alternative courses to achieve a more well-rounded education so you have a
better chance of passing said examination and getting teaching certificate
in the state. Why do I mention this? Because the coursework in the state
is geared towards the Florida certification...and this is what you claim
that you want to achieve, is it not?
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
Larry Hewitt
Not being one to avoid confession or run from confrontation, I wanted
to inform others of my recent change in my Education training. I
fully expect this change to be attacked by those with a personal
vendetta against me (I offended them in the past or such), but I
wanted to get it out in the open, so we can move on from it.
I guess I should give a little context. I had finished a Religion
degree from Liberty University. It became necessary for me to get a
job to cover my wife's lost income, when she stopped working, due to a
disability. So, I started school for a MAT degree to cover the
requirements to teach Elementary Education, having enjoyed teaching my
daughter at home for many years. Actually, I didn't need the degree,
being qualified, already, for a temporary teaching certificate from
-----
A termporary certificate is strictly that, temporary. Your contract is
limited in time and subject to termination without notice,
----------------
Florida (have the Statement of Eligibility, now), and I could use
their ACP program or EPI to finish the rest of the requirements. But,
I figured that, with my wife's disability, I couldn't teach right now,
anyway. So, I started the degree program. In ONE semester, I
completed 19 credits of teaching courses, including Schools and
Society, Human Development and Learning, Diversity and Inclusion,
Classroom Management, Testing, and Instructional Presentation and
Follow-up...among others. However, at the end of the semester, I
didn't feel I had really LEARNED anything (already knew most of it and
didn't need to do much studying to get near perfect scores on my
papers and assignments). Meanwhile, I had racked up a large student
debt. So, I started looking for other options. This led me to ABCTE.
--------------
But in some ways the MAT is superior ---- salary, In my district an MAT is
worth $4000 a year.
AN MAT can also lead to certification faster --- in less than 3 semesters
and 2 summers, or less than 21 months, if you push it
The alternative program here takes three years to full certification.,
granting a termporary certificate in the meantime.
Here ABCTE is also available in subjects whit a large shortage of teachers.
Now this include core subjects and some electives, like language, but does
not include subjects like band, gym, business, etc.
And seats are rare in elementary education, a field that seem to attract the
vast majority of college students (traditional teachers) here.
NCLB also limits the nmber of temporary certificates a district can grant.
So every district is limited in the number of temporarily certified teachers
it can hire without risking federal sanctions.
--------------------
ABCTE is a competency passing program. You gain your certificate by
passing exams on your subject area and teaching knowledge. It is
basically the effect of having passed the state subject test (which
I've also done) and the state teachers test. After you demonstrate
your knowledge by passing these difficult tests (only 40 percent
pass),
-------------
I found hte tests to be rather simple, especially the subject tests.
Contributing to the large failure rate when I took them was the large number
of teaching college undergraduates taking the exam for the experience.
I went through an alternative paths program, too, a program designed to take
individuals with real world experience and degrees in subjects with teacher
shortages and allow them to teach while earning certification.
Most of my class passed the exams on their first try, too.
------------------
you still must demonstrate your teaching ability in the
classroom (just like every other teaching training program) to be
fully certified, which requires passing the 12 Accomplished Practices
(closely tied to the interstate required competencies) by
observation. At present, ABCTE is a fully accepted method of gaining
certification in Florida, Mississippi, South Carolina, Pennsylvania,
New Hampshire, and such. As of this last week, Missouri's state
Senate approved a bill to use ABCTE, as well. It goes to the House
there, next, and the state governor is already behind the program.
-----
It would be a big help to your readers is you used a site like tinurl.com to
shorten these.
Another, perhaps better link, is
http://www.abcte.org/teach
-------
There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
guess...put them out of business.
--------
You guess wrong.
Teacher's unions _loved_ us, soliciting us for membership immediately and
providing offers of assistance in getting permanent certification.
Both the AFT and NEA solicited us.
----------
However, it just makes sense, in
our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
(with observation) be fully certified.
---------------
Except you are not fully certified, just temporarily certified pending the
completion of education adn training.
----------------
So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
------------------
It also helped me gain employment faster than I could have with an MAT,
very important to my belly:>)
--------------
Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
---------------
I have no need to attack you ---- you are so blatantly foolish that you do a
great job in discrediting yourself.
In my experience alternative programs are useful, but very challenging. You
taught and took training at the same time.
New teachers already have huge demands on their time and energy, and my
district and state _added_ demands ranging from bi-weekly seminars at
district HQ to one weekend a semester and one week a summer for state DOE
training.
It took 3 years to "graduate": into permanent certification, at which point
we were eligible for a standard contract taking 3 more years to tenure.
During that period we got annual contracts, no raises, and the district was
actively looking for permanently certified teachers to replace us.
Five years later less than a quarter of my "class" is still teaching.
Some of us couldn't handle the rigors of 60 and 70 hour weeks, with the
extra training, at a relatively advanced age.
Some of us bounced from district to district for a couple of years before
moving on.
And a few had family problems with the huge cut in salary.
Larry
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Cary Kittrell
> VY3kL1ti6w4%0AWdpxNZXwKv8o5rTZEIUwMk751Pix8KVYhLckZbmjdBVY%2ByuszoyO08d5n%2F1cuVdtnMhkrENK1nkF%0AnIxDzKuo7XZ6XX3t1IVx9zQ8zkbluq%2FYEhd1uWiRyCP5rtNQlNUR5NpugIBfSLwr2TreANZx4Ln9%0AW3E%2Fjhn3Kaxm2gQtpfoENeGLxi8ramC018o%2FmuH%2F0EURqRTtkcgj%2Ba7TUJQeYmNFXnHsA
> YYg%2BOmb%0AOqvMNcztvEH5lt4%2B3OCj%2BvO831s9poYBSvNcyXJfTSjmSJn9kv%2BmFN0nRKCc44vD%2Bwk%2FA1MZcjaM%0AwPgpt0APWcbq69jBJTCa798pHMR8i%2FmXcQqZJcLv%2FMLX3kg9NmauPZcuuq%2FYEhd1uWiRyCP5rtNQ%0AlGQmorKkjSeKUGn2RmsxT%2FZiPADH6%2BFquOoRm%2F%2F5CeGAn7Wm4FxnoJ7FPvwtW
> nIzHmI8AMfr4Wq4%0A6hGb%2F%2FkJ4YBdhxsakm3yXhexM7SwWz6kVI2zBGZWBWNW6EcvM0Mhz%2F0bJOLSyIHoRO7UpMmRtaKr%0A0m94MUYVc4CDkTdUd5cmaqVZC8Ez4uuCR9bk9jnJbVmOOfNFUwaidqALL3Kf7DrJmSO35wxFm31Q%0ArneG5pBW%2FRsk4tLIgehE7tSkyZG1oqvSb3gxRhVzgIORN1R3lyZqpVkLwTPi64JH1uT2Ocl
> tWY45%0A80VTBqJ2oAsvcp%2FsOsmZI7fnDEWbfVCud4bmkFb28ScwMiv3IvAJ%2FNaTkC6KiuYzRU3tYys%3D
>
> guess...put them out of business. However, it just makes sense, in
> our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
> assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
> (with observation) be fully certified.
>
> So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
> program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
> my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
> in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
>
> Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
> begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
>
> ABCTE is not an acceptable option in my state of Louisiana. ABCTE is not an
> acceptable option where my grandson lives in Virgina, either. I wonder,
> however, if what you really want to talk about is " lies and hypocrisy,"
> then why do you bother to even mention ABCTE at all?
Why do some go to bars every weekend looking to get into fights?
-- cary
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> ABCTE is not an acceptable option in my state of Louisiana. ABCTE is not an
> acceptable option where my grandson lives in Virgina, either. I wonder,
> however, if what you really want to talk about is " lies and hypocrisy,"
> then why do you bother to even mention ABCTE at all?
>
> mark
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
Give it time. Actually, ABCTE IS acceptable in Louisiana's charter
schools, as an option. However, just across the state line in
Mississippi, it IS an option. As I said, give it time.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Thank you, Bob, for providing EXACTLY what I expected and just enough
rope to hang yourself. You don't even know what subject, apparently
and despite my mention of it, that I am interested in teaching
(Elementary Education...possibly Special Education..both avail through
ABCTE), yet you know enough to completely judge me. Further, without
any evidence or testimony from myself, you "suspect" that I would
preach from the classroom, despite repeated denials of this on these
newsgroups by myself. What do you call someone that makes conclusions
based upon unsupported assumptions (in fact in violation of
testimony), based upon ones ideology? Prejudice.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
>
> VzgIORN1R3lyZqpVkLwTPi64JH1uT2OcltWY45%0A80VTBqJ2oAsvcp%2FsOsmZI7fnDEWbfVCud4bmkFb28ScwMiv3IvAJ%2FNaTkC6KiuYzRU3tYys%3D
>
>
>
> > There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
> > guess...put them out of business.
>
> Keep in mind that only about 1/2 the states potentially have unions that
> "are in business"... About 1/2 the states are Right-to-Work states,
> where union involvement isn't much of an issue. Here where I am in Texas
> for instance, most teachers I know aren't even in a union - most seem to
> instead join professional associations (mainly to get the low cost
> liability insurance) like Texas Classroom Teacher Association TCTA
>
> http://www.tcta.org/index.html
>
> > However, it just makes sense, in
> > our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
> > assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
> > (with observation) be fully certified.
>
> We (Texas) have had altenative ways of becoming a teacher for awhile now.
>
>
> But IMO the issue isn't one of whether or not someone can get certified,
> it is whether or not they can actually survive their first couple years
> on the job in a classroom. I've know a number of people pursuing the
> alternative route who seemed highly qualified who either lasted a year
> or in some cases just the first semester.
>
> > So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
> > program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
> > my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
> > in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
>
> > Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
> > begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
>
> Just curious - not meant as an "attack"... Are you going to try and be a
> regular public school classroom teacher?
Yes. I currently have a statement of eligibility for a temporary
teaching certificate in Florida, and ABCTE and observation satisfies
the rest the the 5-yr certificate requirements.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
mine, and your training is not comparable with ABCTE (nor
qualification). See below.
On Mar 1, 12:38 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
And, it costs a lot more, which...I said in my post...I was trying to
avoid.
>
> AN MAT can also lead to certification faster --- in less than 3 semesters
> and 2 summers, or less than 21 months, if you push it
>
ABCTE takes 6 months to a year. School observation takes up to a
year. So, it is faster.
> The alternative program here takes three years to full certification.,
> granting a termporary certificate in the meantime.
>
> Here ABCTE is also available in subjects whit a large shortage of teachers.
> Now this include core subjects and some electives, like language, but does
> not include subjects like band, gym, business, etc.
>
> And seats are rare in elementary education, a field that seem to attract the
> vast majority of college students (traditional teachers) here.
>
This is NOT the case in my area in Florida, where Title I schools
(where I desire to teach) ALWAYS have an opening, somewhere.
> NCLB also limits the nmber of temporary certificates a district can grant.
> So every district is limited in the number of temporarily certified teachers
> it can hire without risking federal sanctions.
Again, not the case in my area, where the district ITSELF pays the
scholarship for teachers to do the district alternative certification
program (which takes longer than ABCTE). Though, BOTH their version
and ABCTE use the same classroom observation system.
> http://www.teachermagazine.org/tm/articles/2008/02/27/08apfastrack_we...
>
> -----
>
> It would be a big help to your readers is you used a site like tinurl.com to
> shorten these.
>
> Another, perhaps better link, ishttp://www.abcte.org/teach
>
> -------
>
> There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
> guess...put them out of business.
>
> --------
>
> You guess wrong.
> Teacher's unions _loved_ us, soliciting us for membership immediately and
> providing offers of assistance in getting permanent certification.
>
> Both the AFT and NEA solicited us.
The article I linked provided info about union opposition, and you can
find out more at the NEA website about their opposition to ABCTE,
being that it is a product of the conservative Fordham Foundation.
>
> ----------
>
> However, it just makes sense, in
> our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
> assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
> (with observation) be fully certified.
>
> ---------------
>
> Except you are not fully certified, just temporarily certified pending the
> completion of education adn training.
Again, your training is, apparently, unlike ABCTE. In Florida, you
need NO extra training, only observation of the 12 accomplished
practices.
>
> ----------------
>
> So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
> program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
> my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
> in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
>
> ------------------
>
> It also helped me gain employment faster than I could have with an MAT,
> very important to my belly:>)
>
> --------------
>
> Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
> begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
>
> ---------------
>
> I have no need to attack you ---- you are so blatantly foolish that you do a
> great job in discrediting yourself.
>
> In my experience alternative programs are useful, but very challenging. You
> taught and took training at the same time.
NOT with ABCTE, which I will complete ahead of time.
>
> New teachers already have huge demands on their time and energy, and my
> district and state _added_ demands ranging from bi-weekly seminars at
> district HQ to one weekend a semester and one week a summer for state DOE
> training.
>
> It took 3 years to "graduate": into permanent certification, at which point
> we were eligible for a standard contract taking 3 more years to tenure.
> During that period we got annual contracts, no raises, and the district was
> actively looking for permanently certified teachers to replace us.
Again, no the case where I will be hired.
>
> Five years later less than a quarter of my "class" is still teaching.
>
> Some of us couldn't handle the rigors of 60 and 70 hour weeks, with the
> extra training, at a relatively advanced age.
>
Again, not the same, here.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Cary Kittrell" <ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fqc7np$jec$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
>
> Why do some go to bars every weekend looking to get into fights?
Because that is where the anesthesia is for the pain can be found, for after
they lose....
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "teachrmama" <teachrm...@iwon.com> wrote in message
>
> news:fqb0l...@news2.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
1. I have already taken and passes the General Knowledge and Subject
Area test requirements of the state tests (thus, my qualification for
temp cert) for Elementary Education.
2. I already mentioned, in my post, that I've taken 19 credits in
Education coursework in an accredited school of education.
3. Florida doesn't require the 3rd test with ABCTE (considers their
teaching test good enough), but I do plan on taking the 3rd test in
Florida, anyway, to place on my resume.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:244e66e8-b3ea-4fc1...@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Would it be possible to find a site on the subject that does not require
registration? The one that you gave earlier does seem to ask for that, so I
was unable to see the article in question.
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:244e66e8-b3ea-4fc1...@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Yes...give me a sec.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:244e66e8-b3ea-4fc1...@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Before you completely discount the idea of taking the FTCE and only pursuing
the ABCTE, you might consider looking at this:
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
You will see that that those who are certified under ABCTE in Florida end up
with only *temp* certs, which are *non-renewable*....there are several ways
to convert to a full cert, and all involve FTCE...
Larry Hewitt
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
news:wSlyj.60267$Ft5....@newsfe15.lga...
Larry
\
Wide Eyed in Wonder
1. First, here's the site from ABCTE...
http://abcte.org/teach/florida
...just select the subject of interest.
2. Next. On this site...
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/
a good page would be...
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/cert_types.asp
and
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/mast_prof.asp
...which is the "professional" knowledge link. Go down to where it
talks about ABCTE, "A valid certificate issued by the American Board
for Certification of Teacher Excellence and completion of an approved
professional education competence demonstration program"
The PECD is essentially the observation side of the ACP program
provided by the district.
3. This page...
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pathways.asp
provides the same info graphically.
Let me know if you need more info.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39ad3b80-de71-4aa2...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 1, 8:52 am, Rowley <industry3dREM...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Random comments inline....
>>
>> Just curious - not meant as an "attack"... Are you going to try and be a
>> regular public school classroom teacher?
>
> Yes. I currently have a statement of eligibility for a temporary
> teaching certificate in Florida, and ABCTE and observation satisfies
> the rest the the 5-yr certificate requirements.
Not according to the Florida State School Board site...this one says that
SBCTE certs are only good for 3 years of school and are nonrenawable. They
*can* be converted to a full cert with professional college classes,
teaching experience, demonstration of compentence in the classroom, and the
FTCE (one of several ways, all of which include the FTCE)
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:244e66e8-b3ea-4fc1...@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I do plan to take the 3rd test (having already passed the others), but
this page...
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/mast_prof.asp
says the third test is not required with ABCTE.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:244e66e8-b3ea-4fc1...@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Actually, your link says you don't have to with ABCTE...read at the
bottom of the page for moving from temp to prof.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:39ad3b80-de71-4aa2...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Mar 1, 8:52 am, Rowley <industry3dREM...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Random comments inline....
>
> >> Just curious - not meant as an "attack"... Are you going to try and be a
> >> regular public school classroom teacher?
>
> > Yes. I currently have a statement of eligibility for a temporary
> > teaching certificate in Florida, and ABCTE and observation satisfies
> > the rest the the 5-yr certificate requirements.
>
> Not according to the Florida State School Board site...this one says that
> SBCTE certs are only good for 3 years of school and are nonrenawable. They
> *can* be converted to a full cert with professional college classes,
> teaching experience, demonstration of compentence in the classroom, and the
> FTCE (one of several ways, all of which include the FTCE)http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/pdf/Pathways.pdf
Read your own link. At the bottom of the page, it says all you need
with your ABCTE certificate is the educator competency demonstration
course, which is the observation side of the district ACP program.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:05349fca-b5b9-46f5...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
The question them becomes--how far are you willing to travel (with the price
of gas increasing) , or even move, for the job? Florida is a big state...
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:05349fca-b5b9-46f5...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Pick a big district. Hillsborough County (where I will teach) has 130
Elementary schools in one district. There's always something open
(and it has a LOT of Title I schools).
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Ok. I'm going off line for the weekend. So, if I don't answer
questions, that will be why from here on...
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
jingojones
The reality is that ABCTE isn't acceptable Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana.
Charter schools in LA are a special case of public schools that eventually
must meet the same credentialing standards as the other public schools in
the state. The argument that ABCTE is somewhat acceptable in Charter Schools
is a weak one, indeed, at least for teacher candidates looking for long term
employment in the public school system.
mark
>
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d51922c5-734b-41b3...@c33g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Thanks...am working my way through this...
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e55fbf22-4ac9-4187...@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
What about Exceptional Student Education, though? I can understand other
Subject areas...but ESE? (Yes I saw what the State site said, but, as a
dual major[ ESE/Elem Ed] in Florida, that definately has me curious <g>)
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ec2a7103-fe3a-4adf...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Ayh...I somehow merged it with the next--I should be using my reading
glasses more with the computer after being online for this long...
<G> You would think the ones who designed the blasted site would know better
than to use that color scheme!
stevericks
We will pray for you that it all works out satisfactorily. I am sure your
wife's disability makes the situation even more difficult. Debt is no fun
and seems to follow teachers.
May I ask if you are getting any time in schools or will you have an
opportunity to student teach with a mentor? Most teachers say they learn
more from that experience (if it is done correctly) than a truckload of
degrees. At any rate, I hope you are able to spend some time in classrooms
with a mentor before you are tossed into a deep pool and expected to swim.
Too many prospective teachers end up drowning early on.
Best wishes.
Steve
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Not being one to avoid confession or run from confrontation, I wanted
to inform others of my recent change in my Education training. I
fully expect this change to be attacked by those with a personal
vendetta against me (I offended them in the past or such), but I
wanted to get it out in the open, so we can move on from it.
I guess I should give a little context. I had finished a Religion
degree from Liberty University. It became necessary for me to get a
job to cover my wife's lost income, when she stopped working, due to a
disability. So, I started school for a MAT degree to cover the
requirements to teach Elementary Education, having enjoyed teaching my
daughter at home for many years. Actually, I didn't need the degree,
being qualified, already, for a temporary teaching certificate from
Florida (have the Statement of Eligibility, now), and I could use
their ACP program or EPI to finish the rest of the requirements. But,
I figured that, with my wife's disability, I couldn't teach right now,
anyway. So, I started the degree program. In ONE semester, I
completed 19 credits of teaching courses, including Schools and
Society, Human Development and Learning, Diversity and Inclusion,
Classroom Management, Testing, and Instructional Presentation and
Follow-up...among others. However, at the end of the semester, I
didn't feel I had really LEARNED anything (already knew most of it and
didn't need to do much studying to get near perfect scores on my
papers and assignments). Meanwhile, I had racked up a large student
debt. So, I started looking for other options. This led me to ABCTE.
ABCTE is a competency passing program. You gain your certificate by
passing exams on your subject area and teaching knowledge. It is
basically the effect of having passed the state subject test (which
I've also done) and the state teachers test. After you demonstrate
your knowledge by passing these difficult tests (only 40 percent
pass), you still must demonstrate your teaching ability in the
classroom (just like every other teaching training program) to be
fully certified, which requires passing the 12 Accomplished Practices
(closely tied to the interstate required competencies) by
observation. At present, ABCTE is a fully accepted method of gaining
certification in Florida, Mississippi, South Carolina, Pennsylvania,
New Hampshire, and such. As of this last week, Missouri's state
Senate approved a bill to use ABCTE, as well. It goes to the House
there, next, and the state governor is already behind the program.
There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
guess...put them out of business. However, it just makes sense, in
our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
(with observation) be fully certified.
So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Larry Hewitt
>I appreciate your comments, but your situation isn't comparable to
> mine, and your training is not comparable with ABCTE (nor
> qualification). See below.
>
> On Mar 1, 12:38 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> Not being one to avoid confession or run from confrontation, I wanted
>> to inform others of my recent change in my Education training. I
>> fully expect this change to be attacked by those with a personal
>> vendetta against me (I offended them in the past or such), but I
>> wanted to get it out in the open, so we can move on from it.
>>
>> I guess I should give a little context. I had finished a Religion
>> degree from Liberty University. It became necessary for me to get a
>> job to cover my wife's lost income, when she stopped working, due to a
>> disability. So, I started school for a MAT degree to cover the
>> requirements to teach Elementary Education, having enjoyed teaching my
>> daughter at home for many years. Actually, I didn't need the degree,
>> being qualified, already, for a temporary teaching certificate from
>>
>>
>> There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
>> guess...put them out of business.
>>
>> --------
>>
>> You guess wrong.
>> Teacher's unions _loved_ us, soliciting us for membership immediately and
>> providing offers of assistance in getting permanent certification.
>>
>> Both the AFT and NEA solicited us.
>
> The article I linked provided info about union opposition, and you can
> find out more at the NEA website about their opposition to ABCTE,
> being that it is a product of the conservative Fordham Foundation.
>
I looked into this in more detail --- apparently my state is dubious about
the program, too, and adds requirements.
Union concerns, to me, are valid. I wouldn't want my kids to be taught by
someone as unprepared and unqualified as an ABCTE cretified teacher.
AS I noted, unions have little problem with prepared teachers entering
through alternative programs.
But ABCTE has serious problems.
Apparently this program has never been vetted though college or university,
or even congress, but is mostly financed by US DoE secretary Paige's
discretionary fund. No analysis of the course material, requirements, or
curriculum was done by certification authorities prior to his funding of hte
program.
Numbers of participants remain small.
Primary supporters are a group of conservative state education officials and
conservative think tanks that, starting in 2001, sought ways to bypass the
existing national certification boards.
You, yourself, are one reason why the unions oppose the program.
Past/other programs have required a degree in a core subject --- math,
English, History, science, or a foreign language, for eligibility, and have
been managed by state education departments or certified teaching colleges.
APparently ANY degree, even a degree in divinity as you claim to have
earned, is sufficient to meet the conservative officials requirements.
This is a reversal of recent trends, where additional PRAXIS exams proving
expertise in subjects have been required for certification.
The ABCTE certification program apparently bypasses the whole PRAXIS
certification process, requires no expertise or training in the subject(s)
being taught, and does not require any education/training or experience in
working with children.
As far as I, and the NEA, can discern this is no more than a way to buy a
certification without having to do the work.
All candidates must do is pass a criminal background test (like all
teachers), have any bachelors degree (even religion, fine arts, marketing,
public safety, ...) with no requirement for a correlation with public school
curriculum, pass 2 trivial tests (no wonder you feel you have learned
nothing), and pay $500.
Oh, you can also pay $850 for training material.
Again, this bypasses recent trends is strengthening teacher skills and
training.
Particularly disturbing to me is ABCTE's solicitation of contributions from
the conservative/religious community.
Teacher accreditation should be neutral, and NOT dependent on contributions
from the public.
And, in fact, it is not just teachers unions who are leery of ABCTE, but the
National Association of School Boards is recommending that states "should
not view passage of the ABCTE test as the sole means of earning
certification.", as apparently mine does not.
http://www.nea.org/certification/alt040715.html
Given the inflammatory nature of the program I am not at all surpised you
expected to be flamed.
Larry
//more snip//
Bob LeChevalier
>On Mar 1, 7:59 am, Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org> wrote:
>> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
>> >guess...put them out of business.
>>
>> No. They probably fear that it could put incompetent jerks like you
>> in a classroom, and they'd be right.
>>
>> >Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
>> >begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with your being a "conservative", and not much to
>> do with your being a "religious nut", though I suspect that
>> constitution violations would be a regular thing with you in the
>> "pulpit" of the classroom.
>>
>> Your behavior in the newsgroups is why no one respects you. Your
>> seemingly willful lack of reading comprehension makes it scary to
>> think that you might teach some kid to read the way you do, not to
>> mention the things that you are sure you know that are absolutely
>> wrong.
>>
>> I'm curious what subject you are going to try to qualify in.
>
>rope to hang yourself. You don't even know what subject, apparently
>and despite my mention of it, that I am interested in teaching
>(Elementary Education...possibly Special Education..both avail through
>ABCTE), yet you know enough to completely judge me.
I don't "completely" judge you.
But based solely on your net-performance, I wouldn't hire you for
anything, and would not consider your qualified to teach no matter how
many tests you took or credits you bought.
> Further, without
>any evidence or testimony from myself, you "suspect" that I would
>preach from the classroom, despite repeated denials of this on these
>newsgroups by myself.
You are a liar and a hypocrite. Why should I believe you?
> What do you call someone that makes conclusions
>based upon unsupported assumptions (in fact in violation of
>testimony), based upon ones ideology?
My conclusion is based on your on-line behavior which is all I really
know about you (since you could be lying about all the rest), not on
any assumptions.
I have no ideology.
lojbab
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:e55fbf22-4ac9-4187...@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
From what I understand...am weak in knowledge about special ed with
ABCTE, you can take the state test in it for a temp cert and use
ABCTE's special ed program for the professional cert. However, I am
less sure about this.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:05349fca-b5b9-46f5...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
And, apparently, we don't teach liberal education, anymore, under
majors of degrees. However, if you are judging ME (see your "your,
yourself" comment above) in regards to this, I have taken the
following liberal arts courses in my teaching areas..
History:
US History I
Modern Western Civilization
Irish History
Russian History
Government:
US Government
Development of Political Thought: Ancient and Modern
Science:
Physical Science with Lab
Math:
Intro to Statistics
Business Statistics
Applied Calculus
English:
English Composition I
Modern Western Literature
News Reporting
Music:
Music Appreciation I
I might have forgotten a few in those areas, and they are JUST the
college level courses. I have multiple awards in all of these areas
in high school.
This is beside the point that, in order to get a temporary
certificate, I passed (with an outstanding score) the state subject
area test for Elementary Education.
Yet...apparently, according to you..having taken a religion degree
makes me unqualified to teach non-religion courses...right?
>
> This is a reversal of recent trends, where additional PRAXIS exams proving
> expertise in subjects have been required for certification.
>
Actually, PRAXIS isn't used in Florida, and Florida's OWN requirements
require a degree in any subject.
> The ABCTE certification program apparently bypasses the whole PRAXIS
> certification process, requires no expertise or training in the subject(s)
> being taught, and does not require any education/training or experience in
> working with children.
>
This is complete fiction. Florida has a general test, a subject area
test, and a professional teaching test. ABCTE, itself, requires a
subject area test and a teaching test to graduate. Thus, it MIRRORS
Praxis and requires expertise in order to be certified. Finally, can
you point me to ANY school of Education that requires working with the
children to be admitted? If you are going to point to student
teaching, ABCTE requires a teaching observation that is LONGER than
that of colleges to be fully certified in Florida.
> As far as I, and the NEA, can discern this is no more than a way to buy a
> certification without having to do the work.
>
> All candidates must do is pass a criminal background test (like all
> teachers), have any bachelors degree (even religion, fine arts, marketing,
> public safety, ...) with no requirement for a correlation with public school
> curriculum, pass 2 trivial tests (no wonder you feel you have learned
> nothing), and pay $500.
>
I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
large failure rate of 40 percent).
> Oh, you can also pay $850 for training material.
>
> Again, this bypasses recent trends is strengthening teacher skills and
> training.
>
Only to the degree that district alternative certification system do.
> Particularly disturbing to me is ABCTE's solicitation of contributions from
> the conservative/religious community.
>
BINGO. You gotta hate the conservative (as if liberal is a teacher
qualification). This is the second time you've mentioned religion,
and in both cases it demonstrates prejudice. Here, you said its
contributers are from the religious community. Can you show me
where? Conservative, yes. Religious? Where?
> Teacher accreditation should be neutral, and NOT dependent on contributions
> from the public.
>
> And, in fact, it is not just teachers unions who are leery of ABCTE, but the
> National Association of School Boards is recommending that states "should
> not view passage of the ABCTE test as the sole means of earning
> certification.", as apparently mine does not.http://www.nea.org/certification/alt040715.html
>
> http://www.abcte.org/
>
> Given the inflammatory nature of the program I am not at all surpised you
> expected to be flamed.
The fact that you APPROVED of this program, and changed your view upon
word of a teacher union view shows just how limited your diversity and
tolerance really seems to be. They, apparently, own you.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
ABCTE seems a solid path. I have subbed in classes and will continue
to do so for classroom experience. However, the path through ABCTE
requires classroom observation in order to finish professional
certification. I know this is not what you are suggesting, but I am
confident in my ability. This portion will enable me to prove to them
I have what it takes.
On Mar 1, 7:09 pm, "stevericks" <steveri...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Kenneth,
>
> We will pray for you that it all works out satisfactorily. I am sure your
> wife's disability makes the situation even more difficult. Debt is no fun
> and seems to follow teachers.
>
> May I ask if you are getting any time in schools or will you have an
> opportunity to student teach with a mentor? Most teachers say they learn
> more from that experience (if it is done correctly) than a truckload of
> degrees. At any rate, I hope you are able to spend some time in classrooms
> with a mentor before you are tossed into a deep pool and expected to swim.
> Too many prospective teachers end up drowning early on.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Steve
>
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.teachermagazine.org/tm/articles/2008/02/27/08apfastrack_we...
>
> There are some teacher unions that fear this program could...I
> guess...put them out of business. However, it just makes sense, in
> our age of accountibility assessment, that passing a teacher
> assessment program would prove you able to enter the classroom and
> (with observation) be fully certified.
>
> So, this will be how I will finish my requirements, and the whole
> program will cost me less than half of the tuition for ONE semester at
> my other school. This makes sense to fill the teacher shortage need
> in America, and I am glad to use their program for myself.
>
> Now....let the "attack the religious nut / conservative" session
> begin, with all the lies and hypocrisy I expect.
>
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5f918505-0db7-478c...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Where are the pedagogy classes? Those are actually more fun to take, the
educational psychology courses....
That might be why you felt this way, because you were "retaking" the general
knowledge courses, instead of the pedagogy courses....perhaps you need to
take those now? Or is that what ABCTE offers? The upper level courses
(3000 and 4000 level coursework)?
Larry Hewitt
There is no such thing as "liberal education"
There is liberal arts, a survey of knwoledge.
>However, if you are judging ME (see your "your,
> yourself" comment above) in regards to this, I have taken the
> following liberal arts courses in my teaching areas..
>
I was not judging you, yourself, I was judging the ABCTE program for
allowing such , in general, unqualified people to teach.
> History:
> US History I
> Modern Western Civilization
> Irish History
> Russian History
>
> Government:
> US Government
> Development of Political Thought: Ancient and Modern
>
> Science:
> Physical Science with Lab
>
> Math:
> Intro to Statistics
> Business Statistics
> Applied Calculus
>
> English:
> English Composition I
> Modern Western Literature
> News Reporting
>
> Music:
> Music Appreciation I
>
This is hte requirements for a local state teaching college for elementary
ed: http://coe.winthrop.edu/
63 credits in the core curriculum that include 33 in education (6 are human
development) and 30 in pedagogy in hte four core subjects --- English, Math,
Science, And history. A 3.0 minimum gpa is required in these courses.
Statistics and calculus, for ex., have little place in an elementary ed
education because you will not teach 8 yr olds those subjects.
Instead prospective students are taught maed 200 or maed 548, math pedagogy
(techniques and tools for describing and explaining math concepts), math 291
BASIC NUMBER CONCEPTS FOR TEACHR , math 292 NUMBER,MEASURMNT,&GEOMTRY CONCPT
Similarly, English lit and jouranlism are not preparation for teaching
children to read, music appreciation does not help young children learn to
sing or play an instrument, a general science with lab course is worthless
for learning how to teach earth science, life science, and the like, and
Irish histroy, world history, politics/government have little value in
teaching 3rd grade .
And the disconnect s far worse for secondary ed candidates.
To get certification in secondary ed ( and I realize you aren;t seeking
this, but ABCTE makes no dissrentiation in requirements), a BA is required
in the subejct matter PLUS 30 credits of education specific classes.
The BA in math, for ex, requires 27 credits of specific math courses,
including two graduate level course, plus an additional 9 elective math
courses, 8 credits of physics with calculus, 6 credits of computer
programming, and a smorgasboard of english, history, and liberal arts
courses. http://www.winthrop.edu/mathdpt/banew.htm
Similar course loads are required for other BAs.
In addition, each candidate must have not only a 3.0 overall gpa, but a 3.0
in education and, if secondary ed, the core subject. That means, for
example, that an elementary ed teacher who gets a 2.95 in 63 credits of educ
classes and a 4.0 in 47 credits of electives _cannot_ be certified despite
a 3.4 overall. (thought provoking, isnlt it, that a medical profesional or a
bridge engineer can handle our lives with a 2.0, but a teacher needs a 3.0?)
Additionally, each candidate must pass the same background test you do, has
130 hrs of supervised classroom time (2 hrs a day during fall semester sr
yr) whiile taking a full academic load, and 15 weeks of minimally supervised
teaching experience (spring of sr yr)
Addionally each candidate must pass a series of PRAXIS exams, comprehensive
exams testing pedagogy, human development, and subject matter. ALl
candidates take the pedagogy test. When I took it it was a series of
knowledge based multiple choice and 20 essay questions where candidates are
asked how they would repsond to a scenario, and why, based on their
knowledge of human development and pedagogy.
Elementary ed teachers are required to pass a general knowledge exam on the
4 core courses, secondary ed candidates must take 2 comprehensive exams in
their subject. The math exam, for ex, has questions requiring a formal proof
be written.
Now do you understand why I, and certification boards, think that candidates
like you are not qualified despite taking the ABCTE?
Now do you understand why teachers who went through this process to get
certified may not appreciate you skating in by taking two trivial online
exams (the PRAXIS exams must be taken in person and identificationis
rigorous, and can last 4 hrs each) and paying an insignificant fee may have
problems with you standing beside them?
Can you understand that states that have spent a lot of energy adn money
recertifying teachers to the new standards and working to provide the
necessary education in the colleges may be reluctant to accept such
minimally qualifed eachers?
> I might have forgotten a few in those areas, and they are JUST the
> college level courses. I have multiple awards in all of these areas
> in high school.
>
Even worse. Are you suggesting that you may have forgotten your college
education but you remeber your hs courses?
> This is beside the point that, in order to get a temporary
> certificate, I passed (with an outstanding score) the state subject
> area test for Elementary Education.
>
It most certanly is to the point.
ANCTE is attempting to become a nationwide standard.
And Florida should be ashamed of accepting only ABCTE certification.
> Yet...apparently, according to you..having taken a religion degree
> makes me unqualified to teach non-religion courses...right?
>
It makes you unprepared.
AS noted above, your education is woefully short, not only in hte subjact
matters to be taugh, but in pedagogy and human development.
Look.
My state considers a MS in math to be unprepared for teaching HS math
because ofhe lack of education on how to deal with children. They require
_considerable_ training bedoare even masters holders get into a classrooom.
Having been there I agree. Getting dropped cold turky into the voracious
maw of an 6th grade classroom without the considerable training I got
couldhave been fatal.
And as noted, it is one reason why many n my callss stopped teaching.
>>
>> This is a reversal of recent trends, where additional PRAXIS exams
>> proving
>> expertise in subjects have been required for certification.
>>
>
> Actually, PRAXIS isn't used in Florida, and Florida's OWN requirements
> require a degree in any subject.
>
No wonder your kids do so poorly academically.
Most other states do, and the ABCTE is trying to become a nationwide
standard.
>> The ABCTE certification program apparently bypasses the whole PRAXIS
>> certification process, requires no expertise or training in the
>> subject(s)
>> being taught, and does not require any education/training or experience
>> in
>> working with children.
>>
>
> This is complete fiction. Florida has a general test, a subject area
> test, and a professional teaching test. ABCTE, itself, requires a
> subject area test and a teaching test to graduate. Thus, it MIRRORS
> Praxis and requires expertise in order to be certified. Finally, can
> you point me to ANY school of Education that requires working with the
> children to be admitted? If you are going to point to student
> teaching, ABCTE requires a teaching observation that is LONGER than
> that of colleges to be fully certified in Florida.
>
Florida standards, then, are poor.
Most of the rest of the country has much stronger standards.
And I doubt , strongly, your statement about classroom triaining. AS noted
above, in my state for a standard college certificatoin 30 hrs of supervised
and 3 1/2 full time months of unsupervised is required. I know of 5 other
states with the same requirements. Floirida is the first I have heard of
that doesn;t.
>> As far as I, and the NEA, can discern this is no more than a way to buy a
>> certification without having to do the work.
>>
>> All candidates must do is pass a criminal background test (like all
>> teachers), have any bachelors degree (even religion, fine arts,
>> marketing,
>> public safety, ...) with no requirement for a correlation with public
>> school
>> curriculum, pass 2 trivial tests (no wonder you feel you have learned
>> nothing), and pay $500.
>>
>
> I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
> the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
> teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
> large failure rate of 40 percent).
>
The tests are online, the identity of the test taker is not certified, and,
according to the sources I found, the content is not as rigorous as te
PRAXIS exams.
A high failure rate measn nothing without a full description of hte test
takers.
>> Oh, you can also pay $850 for training material.
>>
>> Again, this bypasses recent trends is strengthening teacher skills and
>> training.
>>
>
> Only to the degree that district alternative certification system do.
>
Except that, as I have noted, other states (Florida allows districts to
certify teachers? No other state that I know of allows that, keeping
certifcation at the state level) have made their alternative certification
programs more rigorous. It makes no sense to, for example, allow teacher
candidates to bypass the process described above by getting, say, a "C"
average in fine arts, paying $500, having someone else take the online
exams, and acheive the same status as the college graduate.
>> Particularly disturbing to me is ABCTE's solicitation of contributions
>> from
>> the conservative/religious community.
>>
>
> BINGO. You gotta hate the conservative (as if liberal is a teacher
> qualification).
Nope.
I object to THEIR insertion of politics and theology into what should be a
secuular process.
AS noted, their goal is to _bypass_ the existing process so that more
people with views they approve of can teach, not so that more people with
needed knwoledge can teach
>
This is the second time you've mentioned religion,
> and in both cases it demonstrates prejudice.
No, in both cases it illustrates your paranoia.
My first mention was that a degree in religion does not qualify you to
teach. I lsted what I accept as qualifications, and what I had to meet.
The second mentionn was a factual based cite that the ABCTE is is being
pushed by the conservative/religous community as an attempt to to negate
existing stanards.
YOUR bigotry is intruding by calling hte existing system, existing teachers,
certiificaton boards, and unions, as liberal and anti religion.
I assure you that techers here in South Carolina are not liberal, the SC DoE
is run by conservative repuglicons, and the local unions are more
interested in improving teachers than in politicking.
Look it up.
I dare you.
Here, you said its
> contributers are from the religious community. Can you show me
> where? Conservative, yes. Religious? Where?
>
In the cite I already provided. Read it.
>> Teacher accreditation should be neutral, and NOT dependent on
>> contributions
>> from the public.
>>
>> And, in fact, it is not just teachers unions who are leery of ABCTE, but
>> the
>> National Association of School Boards is recommending that states
>> "should
>> not view passage of the ABCTE test as the sole means of earning
>> certification.", as apparently mine does
>> not.http://www.nea.org/certification/alt040715.html
>>
>> http://www.abcte.org/
>>
>> Given the inflammatory nature of the program I am not at all surpised you
>> expected to be flamed.
>
> The fact that you APPROVED of this program, and changed your view upon
> word of a teacher union view shows just how limited your diversity and
> tolerance really seems to be. They, apparently, own you.
>
I _never_ approved of the bare bones ABCTE.. I approved of the way that SC
implemetns it, requiring consoderable additional traingin qnd education.
The basic program, as a cite I provided by the associaiton of state boards,
is woefully inadequate.
Larry
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
stevericks
student teaching experience under a good mentor will make life a lot less
stressful for you, and you have a chance to learn what might take years,
otherwise. Although I did have student teaching when I started teaching,
the supervising teacher was NOT exactly what I would call a mentor -done
during summer school in science with the football coach as supervising
teacher-you can only imagine (a great tale for another time).
Last Friday a friend of mine at the state department that is over a new
mentoring program showed me stats that about 25% of our new teachers were
quitting teaching after the first year. With the (new) mentoring program ,
it reduced to one half of one percent.
Steve
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4c3e4ea-dc82-4456...@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:5f918505-0db7-478c...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
I have taken:
Schools and Society
Human Development and Learning
Diversity and Inclusion
Classroom Management
Testing
Instructional Presentation and Follow-up
I was just talking about subject area courses with Larry.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Larry, I'm not going down this path with you. If you are out to
justify yourself. Fine. O, wise one...king of teaching and ruler of
pedagogy, you rule. Happy.
Meanwhile, I'll just be satisfied with my alternative certification
(which you said a good option) built upon a liberal arts degree (which
you said was required), my 19 hours in core Education training
subjects (see my post to SumBuny directly above), my satisfaction of
state testing requirements in my subject area and teacher testing, my
life experience as a parent and homeschooling teacher of a child that
re-entered public school with straight A's, my many awards in ALL of
the subjects I will teach, my discipline from my awarded years in the
Army, and more. I guess, with all this, I'm just a fool that cannot
ever live up to YOUR standards.
Good enough for you? If not, I don't intent to respond to your reply.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Larry Hewitt
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
>
>
>
/big snip/
>> I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
>> the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
>> teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
>> large failure rate of 40 percent).
>
> That might be why you felt this way, because you were "retaking" the
> general knowledge courses, instead of the pedagogy courses....perhaps you
> need to take those now? Or is that what ABCTE offers? The upper level
> courses (3000 and 4000 level coursework)?
Apparently no education or training is provided byond what is required to
pass their 2 tests.
Candidates must:
a.. Hold a Bachelor's degree in any subject area from an approved college
or university
b.. Pass a background check
c.. Pass the ABCTE Professional Teaching Knowledge Exam
d.. Pass the ABCTE subject area exam (in the candidate's chosen subject
area)
Kenny insists that a long period of observed teaching is required, but I can
find nothing about this on the web site --- I'll admit I find it difficult
to navigate. In any event, OJT training like this is not listed above and I
sincerely doubt it is as long a s the full semester full time and semsester
of 2 hrs a day that colleges require
"Candidates study on their own time and at their own pace using a variety of
resources, including CD-ROMs, online refresher courses, and our Prepare to
Teach workshops. An experienced advisor is assigned to the candidate to help
create a study plan and provide additional support."
http://www.abcte.org/how-we-help/passport-to-teachin
"Your Advisor will help you complete a Self-Assessment and develop an
Individualized Learning Plan for each exam. The Individualized Learning Plan
identifies books, Web sites, online courses, and other materials that meet
your preparation needs and budget.
For your convenience we have organized the available resources by subject
area and topic for each exam."
Biology
Chemistry
a.. Elementary Education
b.. English Language Arts
c.. General Science
d.. Mathematics
a.. Physics
b.. Special Education
c.. United States History
d.. World History
e.. Professional Teaching Knowledge
f.. Reading
http://www.abcte.org/teach/exam-preparation
Elementary ed includes:
In Meaningful Differences, Hart and Risley discuss their findings after they
examined the daily lives of 1- and 2-year-old children in typical American
families. They found staggering contrasts at the extremes of advantage and
within the middle class - in the amount of interaction between parents and
children.
The Everyday Writer is a brief, tabbed reference handbook that gives the
kind of quick, simple answers students want and need. It has extensive and
up-to-date coverage of online writing and research and answers to the
questions students most often ask in a tabbed section of guidelines on the
most common errors.
http://www.abcte.org/teach/exam-preparation/
and click on resources ( the url is humongous) They are kind enough to
include a link to Amazon for each text.
Obviously no 3000 or 4000 level course can be taught using a couple of CDs,
a half dozen general texts, and some online sources with this many
subjects. I can't find it now, but I saw yesterday a page where they charge
about $850 for the CDs, but I can't find it now.
AS I noted in other posts, where I certified in Math students were required
to take a minimum of 9 credits in pedagogy and 9 in the subject for
elementary ed. ABCTE provides links to, but does not require, books in trig,
calc I, and linear algebra., and a refesher book for those who have never
had college math. No pedagogy.
Again, there are no requirements that you read the material, all you have to
do is pass the tests. I suspect the 40% failure rte Kenny trumpets is more
the result of people trrying to pass the tests without preparaton than the
difficulty of the tests.
Being online, the exams are not proctored and the identity of the test taker
is not verified. I had to show 2 forms of ID for the praxis and sign a
statement that I was who I claimed to be. And of course, the exams were
strictly proctored.
They claim to have certified 4000 teachers since 2001 (when they started)
but they provide no stats for how many are actually employed nor how long
they have worked.
The NEA link I provided earlier indicated that few early graduates gained
permanent employment.
Larry
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:qiXyj.22763$y05....@newsfe22.lga...
>
> /big snip/
>
> >> I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
> >> the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
> >> teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
> >> large failure rate of 40 percent).
>
> > That might be why you felt this way, because you were "retaking" the
> > general knowledge courses, instead of the pedagogy courses....perhaps you
> > need to take those now? Or is that what ABCTE offers? The upper level
> > courses (3000 and 4000 level coursework)?
>
> Apparently no education or training is provided byond what is required to
> pass their 2 tests.
>
Inaccurate. Training is provided, if needed.
> Candidates must:
>
> a.. Hold a Bachelor's degree in any subject area from an approved college
> or university
> b.. Pass a background check
> c.. Pass the ABCTE Professional Teaching Knowledge Exam
> d.. Pass the ABCTE subject area exam (in the candidate's chosen subject
> area)
> Kenny insists that a long period of observed teaching is required, but I can
> find nothing about this on the web site --- I'll admit I find it difficult
> to navigate. In any event, OJT training like this is not listed above and I
> sincerely doubt it is as long a s the full semester full time and semsester
> of 2 hrs a day that colleges require
>
It's not a PART of ABCTE. It's the state's part to the ABCTE path.
The Professional Educator Compentency Demonstration Program is an
observation period of up to a year, where the school must sign off
that you know the 12 accomplished practices...in order to get
professional certification. You HAVE to know this, as it is listed in
both the ABCTE's site and the state's site, unless you didn't research
it.
> Obviously no 3000 or 4000 level course can be taught using a couple of CDs,
> a half dozen general texts, and some online sources with this many
> subjects. I can't find it now, but I saw yesterday a page where they charge
> about $850 for the CDs, but I can't find it now.
Actually, the texts provided at the same ones used by Teacher
Colleges...but you know that...don't you?
>
> AS I noted in other posts, where I certified in Math students were required
> to take a minimum of 9 credits in pedagogy and 9 in the subject for
> elementary ed. ABCTE provides links to, but does not require, books in trig,
> calc I, and linear algebra., and a refesher book for those who have never
> had college math. No pedagogy.
>
Again. This is fiction. There are plenty of texts and courses
provided in this area (if you need them). You are just lying. Aren't
you?
> Again, there are no requirements that you read the material, all you have to
> do is pass the tests. I suspect the 40% failure rte Kenny trumpets is more
> the result of people trrying to pass the tests without preparaton than the
> difficulty of the tests.
>
How would they fail the tests, if the tests are as weak as you claim?
If you claim the test failure shows the poor quality of the school,
someone that passes said test would be qualified...right?
> Being online, the exams are not proctored and the identity of the test taker
> is not verified. I had to show 2 forms of ID for the praxis and sign a
> statement that I was who I claimed to be. And of course, the exams were
> strictly proctored.
>
Again...this is a lie. They are taken at Pearson Vue test centers.
> They claim to have certified 4000 teachers since 2001 (when they started)
> but they provide no stats for how many are actually employed nor how long
> they have worked.
>
Actually, they have stats of the high number of Principals that highly
rated them...but I guess you didn't see that..right?
I get the feeling that you are already prejudiced against the school,
so nothing I say will be of any use.
So, go ahead and pat yourself on the back, while I succeed at my job.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Larry Hewitt
> On Mar 3, 6:20 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>
> Larry, I'm not going down this path with you. If you are out to
> justify yourself. Fine. O, wise one...king of teaching and ruler of
> pedagogy, you rule. Happy.
>
Ah, the last refuge of the idealogue --- name calling, hoilding yoru breath
until it turns blue, and runnng off n a huff.
I never set myself up as a apargon of teaching, I listed the requirements of
the existing national certification boards and contrasted them with ABCTE.
> Meanwhile, I'll just be satisfied with my alternative certification
> (which you said a good option)
In the context of my state, which DOES NOT accept just the ABCTE but reuires
considerable additional training and educaiton byt he state DoE.
built upon a liberal arts degree (which
> you said was required),
Nope.
I sadi a degree in education was required, and possible a minor in a
subject.
YOU are fixated on liberal.
In fact, a basic liberal arts degree IS NOT sufficient education for
teaching.
my 19 hours in core Education training
> subjects (see my post to SumBuny directly above),
Which is _nothing_ compard tot he national standard of 33 hrs
And ABCTE, the subect of this thread ( you love to change the subject, don;t
you) DOES NOT require that educationi.
Where and when did you get this instruction? AS part of an MAT program?
my satisfaction of
> state testing requirements in my subject area and teacher testing,
testing far less rigorous than the national standards, based on your
minimal education.
my
> life experience as a parent and homeschooling teacher of a child that
> re-entered public school with straight A's,
No correlation to 40 screaming 8yr olds.
my many awards in ALL of
> the subjects I will teach,
Awards??? In courses barely above hte survey level? It is to laugh.
my discipline from my awarded years in the
In my experience rarely do military types succeed in managing children. They
are too used to instant obedience.
> Army, and more. I guess, with all this, I'm just a fool that cannot
> ever live up to YOUR standards.
>
You said it.
> Good enough for you? If not, I don't intent to respond to your reply.
>
AS I said, hodl your breath and run off an hide.
Larry
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
Bob LeChevalier
>I have no doubt you have what it takes.
I'm sure he doesn't. How does someone with the behavior and maturity
of an 8 year old teach 8 years. And if he gets paranoid about us, how
will he deal with the little ones when they tell Mommy and Daddy about
what teacher Kennie did today.
In another thread we have a discussion of immigrant parents apparently
condoning their child's acting out. I notice that Kennie hasn't
chimed in with an opinion on how to handle that situation. Whatever
the answer to that problem, I find it impossible to imagine Kennie
with the skills to implement an approach, even if he were told how to
deal with it.
lojbab
Larry Hewitt
> On Mar 3, 7:10 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>> "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:qiXyj.22763$y05....@newsfe22.lga...
>>
>> /big snip/
>>
>> >> I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
>> >> the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
>> >> teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
>> >> large failure rate of 40 percent).
>>
>> > That might be why you felt this way, because you were "retaking" the
>> > general knowledge courses, instead of the pedagogy courses....perhaps
>> > you
>> > need to take those now? Or is that what ABCTE offers? The upper level
>> > courses (3000 and 4000 level coursework)?
>>
>> Apparently no education or training is provided byond what is required to
>> pass their 2 tests.
>>
>
> Inaccurate. Training is provided, if needed.
>
Their site doees not say this.
What additional training?
>> Candidates must:
>>
>> a.. Hold a Bachelor's degree in any subject area from an approved
>> college
>> or university
>> b.. Pass a background check
>> c.. Pass the ABCTE Professional Teaching Knowledge Exam
>> d.. Pass the ABCTE subject area exam (in the candidate's chosen subject
>> area)
>> Kenny insists that a long period of observed teaching is required, but I
>> can
>> find nothing about this on the web site --- I'll admit I find it
>> difficult
>> to navigate. In any event, OJT training like this is not listed above and
>> I
>> sincerely doubt it is as long a s the full semester full time and
>> semsester
>> of 2 hrs a day that colleges require
>>
>
> It's not a PART of ABCTE. It's the state's part to the ABCTE path.
Look at your subject heading.. Recently you excoriated others for not
strictly adhering to the subject, and here you are changing the subject to
take the heat off of you.
> The Professional Educator Compentency Demonstration Program is an
> observation period of up to a year, where the school must sign off
> that you know the 12 accomplished practices...in order to get
> professional certification. You HAVE to know this, as it is listed in
> both the ABCTE's site and the state's site, unless you didn't research
> it.
>
I did research ABCTE. Since the discussion is ABCTE, and not floriduh, I
didn;l't look there.
I find hte ABCTE site difficult to navigate. I have found their list of
requirements, their course work, description of he tests, but see notone
thing about observation.
Got a link?
>
>> Obviously no 3000 or 4000 level course can be taught using a couple of
>> CDs,
>> a half dozen general texts, and some online sources with this many
>> subjects. I can't find it now, but I saw yesterday a page where they
>> charge
>> about $850 for the CDs, but I can't find it now.
>
> Actually, the texts provided at the same ones used by Teacher
> Colleges...but you know that...don't you?
>
Actually, I have looked at the texts and they are,at best, what I took as a
freshman in my educ classes or subject texts not related to teaching, like
the calc I texts.
Not one of them would rate as even a junior (3000) level text, and given the
compressed time frame for ABCTE it is not surprising.
At the university I quoted 3000 level courses include dev aspects of the
mid level learner, community connections for the family, insuring success
with young children, educational leadership and professional development, as
well as beginning to observe the classroom.
>>
>> AS I noted in other posts, where I certified in Math students were
>> required
>> to take a minimum of 9 credits in pedagogy and 9 in the subject for
>> elementary ed. ABCTE provides links to, but does not require, books in
>> trig,
>> calc I, and linear algebra., and a refesher book for those who have never
>> had college math. No pedagogy.
>>
>
> Again. This is fiction. There are plenty of texts and courses
> provided in this area (if you need them). You are just lying. Aren't
> you?
>
I looked at the page for the link above, searching for math
here is their link
It lists 4 trig texts --- trig IS NOT a college level math course, 3 general
refresher links, again no collegel leel course amterial, 3 linear algebra
links, 1 pre-calc link --- again, not a college level course, 8 calc I
links, and 3 test prep links. They are not sorted and I may have miscounted,
but this is essentially the list. Look it up. It is _exactly_ as I
represented it.
Again, no pedagogy, no instruction on elementary school subjects, no
geometry ( a major part of elementary math ed), no elemntary number
operations, just 2 college level math courses and a lot of prep help.
If an ABCTE candidate has to start with math refresher, then go on to self
study trig, precalc, linear algebra, and calc I he/she is in for a rough
ride. And after all of that the candidate still has no idea what is taught
or how to teach it.
>> Again, there are no requirements that you read the material, all you have
>> to
>> do is pass the tests. I suspect the 40% failure rte Kenny trumpets is
>> more
>> the result of people trrying to pass the tests without preparaton than
>> the
>> difficulty of the tests.
>>
>
> How would they fail the tests, if the tests are as weak as you claim?
Well, ABCTE seems to think that enough students are so weak in math that
they have to start with HS subjects.
A test may be trivially simple for a college educated person, but impossible
for a HS grad. Not to mention people who haven't done any college math for
20 years.
> If you claim the test failure shows the poor quality of the school,
> someone that passes said test would be qualified...right?
>
No, the opposite.
Passing a simple test is not an indication of quality.
>> Being online, the exams are not proctored and the identity of the test
>> taker
>> is not verified. I had to show 2 forms of ID for the praxis and sign a
>> statement that I was who I claimed to be. And of course, the exams were
>> strictly proctored.
>>
>
> Again...this is a lie. They are taken at Pearson Vue test centers.
>
My apologies. I could find nothing about this on their web sit and made an
unwarranted assumption.
>> They claim to have certified 4000 teachers since 2001 (when they started)
>> but they provide no stats for how many are actually employed nor how long
>> they have worked.
>>
>
> Actually, they have stats of the high number of Principals that highly
> rated them...but I guess you didn't see that..right?
>
That has nothing to do with employment.
> I get the feeling that you are already prejudiced against the school,
> so nothing I say will be of any use.
>
It is not a school. It is a certification agency. The "education" they
provude is no more than an adjuct totheir certfication process. It is
entirely possible for a well educated person to pass their exams without
reading a line of their "texts".
> So, go ahead and pat yourself on the back, while I succeed at my job.
>
Honestly, no offense inteded, but you are gonna have a miserable time. AS
other teachers here have noted, without the training in pedagogy, human
development, and such you are going into the lion's den. Even with the
observation. The kids will smell blood as a first time teacher, and you are
woeflly unprepared.
Questions?
Have you any knowledge of personal development plans, or whatever they are
called there, for children deemed impaired? What do you need to do to
accomodate a hearing impaired, vison mpaired, physically impaired,
cognitively impaired student? Have any knowledge of the laws concerning the
impaired/disabled student? Or any knowedge of liability laws pertaining to
teachers? Do you know the requirements for parental notification? Reporting
requirements of NCLB? How about NCLB standards for everything from
attendance --- even teachers! --- classroom time, etc> What triggers the
intervention of the district psychiatrist? What are your responsibilities if
a parent requests an examination of their child for a learning disability?
How do you handle a student who does not speak english as a first language?
All of this, and more, was part of the 3000 and 4000 level educ classes.
Screwing up some of them can result in anything from a lawsuit to immediate
dismissal.
Larry
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
stevericks
I am all for giving him the benefit of the doubt. The early part of my
career was in working with new teachers. College classes can help, but
there is nothing like experience under a good mentor. I'm still not sure if
his certification requires teaching under a supervising teacher or not (may
have said but I'm pressed for time lately and am only skimming some of the
responses).
Someone made a post earlier about military having trouble adapting to
classrooms. In my Sunday School class we currently have 2 ex-military that
just entered the teaching force this year. I don't know too much about ranks
or how they compare, however, one was a commander/Navy and the other a
colonel/army (we are located at the nation's war college-all high ranking
services go through here). Anyway, one has gone back to college and taken a
number of ed courses, including doing an internship. She has been working
full time since Christmas (hired to replace someone quitting ) and is doing
a fabulous job. In fact, I talked with the director of instruction of her
district the other day and was told she was adapting very well.. The other
went through a "quickie" alternative certificate (temporary certification I
think) with no student teaching and now he is having a devil of a time.
That is not to say that all will follow this pattern. The program I oversee
requires any news teacher to have a mentor, and I'm proud of that.
Steve
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:12cps3l40igovftou...@4ax.com...
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> Honestly, no offense inteded, but you are gonna have a miserable time. AS
> other teachers here have noted, without the training in pedagogy, human
> development, and such you are going into the lion's den. Even with the
> observation. The kids will smell blood as a first time teacher, and you are
> woeflly unprepared.
Larry,
My life is busy enough without having to do your research for
you....even research from my own posts. I posted info to SumBuny and
yourself about the Education coursework that I have taken from a
separate NCATE approved school, yet you keep pushing the false,
prejudicial data from above. If you have no interest in finding the
truth but are only on a mission to attack me, I have better things to
do. I hope you find peace.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
All you need to know about Bob's view of myself is that he has
attacked me for years on a number of problems, even when I sought
peace. I've broken off conversation many times, and each time he acts
like a spoiled little brat, suggesting that I gave up due to being
wrong....pumping me to get back into the fight. I idiotically still
give into the temptation, at times.
I'm not exactly sure what Bob's agenda or reasoning is for attacking
me. I thought that posting pure Educational posts on these groups
would allow for a normal conversation, but he is right there looking
to condemn me for being everything from an idiot to a fascist. There
are other times that he has defamed my family, my school, my children,
and more.
Who knows what he hopes to accomplish, but I've given up expecting him
to be any different. Just know that his attacks about me have nothing
to do with Education or my ability to teach but, only, his desire to
grind me into the dirt. In fact, HE is the main reason I get
defensive on these groups (expecting others to be like him), and HE is
the main attacker I expect with each post.
I don't say this to convince you or to turn you against him. Give it
time, he'll prove my words true on his own. I just thought I'd give
you my perspective. If we were in a schoolyard, Bob would be the
bully. However, I admit to enabling him for way too long, and I need
to just start giving him pity, instead of anger.
> > "stevericks" <steveri...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>I have no doubt you have what it takes.
>
> > I'm sure he doesn't. How does someone with the behavior and maturity
> > of an 8 year old teach 8 years. And if he gets paranoid about us, how
> > will he deal with the little ones when they tell Mommy and Daddy about
> > what teacher Kennie did today.
>
> > In another thread we have a discussion of immigrant parents apparently
> > condoning their child's acting out. I notice that Kennie hasn't
> > chimed in with an opinion on how to handle that situation. Whatever
> > the answer to that problem, I find it impossible to imagine Kennie
> > with the skills to implement an approach, even if he were told how to
> > deal with it.
>
> > lojbab
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Bob LeChevalier
>On Mar 3, 9:16 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>> Honestly, no offense inteded, but you are gonna have a miserable time. AS
>> other teachers here have noted, without the training in pedagogy, human
>> development, and such you are going into the lion's den. Even with the
>> observation. The kids will smell blood as a first time teacher, and you are
>> woeflly unprepared.
>
>you....even research from my own posts.
I'll remember that line the next time you tell *me* to research after
posting not one cite.
You have had enough time to post a large fraction of the 700 messages
in a thread you started in which several posts criticized or commanded
others regarding research.
Now you actually were engaging in a serious professional discussion,
and almost acting like an adult, and the first time someone disagrees
with you and provides evidence, you run away complaining of
"prejudice". Guess what: you just demonstrated the reason for
prejudice, and it had nothing to do with any church.
lojbab
Feminazi Cuntkins
<writi...@yahoo.com> whined about Bob in a predictable fashion and
said:
>I don't say this to convince you or to turn you against him. Give it
>time, he'll prove my words true on his own. I just thought I'd give
>you my perspective. If we were in a schoolyard, Bob would be the
>bully. However, I admit to enabling him for way too long, and I need
>to just start giving him pity, instead of anger.
So you're finished all the bitching about prejudice and have moved on
to the pity party? That means the "I love you just like Jesus does,
Bob" should come in about four days, followed by the childish "oh,
you're soooooo right" sarcasm.
FNC, then the screaming fit, then two days of silence
Bob LeChevalier
>All you need to know about Bob's view of myself is that he has
>attacked me for years on a number of problems, even when I sought
>peace. I've broken off conversation many times, and each time he acts
>like a spoiled little brat, suggesting that I gave up due to being
>wrong.
Actually I don't do that very often. Usually someone else does. But
you think that everyone who criticizes you is really one person, so
you can't tell.
>...pumping me to get back into the fight.
No. That is most certainly NOT what I want. I want you to learn to
research and think, if you are going to post (and to post on topic,
something I'll give you credit for trying to do of late - at least
until someone disagrees with you and you revert to normal behavior).
>I idiotically
yes
>I'm not exactly sure what Bob's agenda
On topic, intelligent, mature.
>I thought that posting pure Educational posts on these groups
>would allow for a normal conversation,
and you have gotten same, even from me, when you make a serious
effort. But when you start playing games or being childish, I am past
the point of having pity for you. Instead I pity the children.
>but he is right there looking
>to condemn me for being everything from an idiot to a fascist.
I don't have to look. You shove it in people's face.
>In fact, HE is the main reason I get defensive on these groups
Excuses, excuses. Take some responsibility for your own behavior,
child.
lojbab
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 3, 9:16 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
> >> Honestly, no offense inteded, but you are gonna have a miserable time. AS
> >> other teachers here have noted, without the training in pedagogy, human
> >> development, and such you are going into the lion's den. Even with the
> >> observation. The kids will smell blood as a first time teacher, and you are
> >> woeflly unprepared.
>
> >My life is busy enough without having to do your research for
> >you....even research from my own posts.
>
> I'll remember that line the next time you tell *me* to research after
> posting not one cite.
>
> You have had enough time to post a large fraction of the 700 messages
> in a thread you started in which several posts criticized or commanded
> others regarding research.
>
I was foolish enough to try to teach others (such as yourself) what it
felt like, by attacking them like I get attacked myself. That was an
unchristian thing for me to do, and you realize I have, since, stopped
posting in that thread....not like you learned anything, anyway.
> Now you actually were engaging in a serious professional discussion,
> and almost acting like an adult, and the first time someone disagrees
> with you and provides evidence, you run away complaining of
> "prejudice". Guess what: you just demonstrated the reason for
> prejudice, and it had nothing to do with any church.
>
> lojbab
Sure, Bob. Whatever.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >All you need to know about Bob's view of myself is that he has
> >attacked me for years on a number of problems, even when I sought
> >peace. I've broken off conversation many times, and each time he acts
> >like a spoiled little brat, suggesting that I gave up due to being
> >wrong.
>
> Actually I don't do that very often. Usually someone else does. But
> you think that everyone who criticizes you is really one person, so
> you can't tell.
>
> >...pumping me to get back into the fight.
>
> No. That is most certainly NOT what I want.
Cool. So, I can expect you to not use inflammatory words and such?
> >I idiotically
>
> yes
>
I guess not.
> >I'm not exactly sure what Bob's agenda
>
> On topic, intelligent, mature.
>
> >I thought that posting pure Educational posts on these groups
> >would allow for a normal conversation,
>
> and you have gotten same, even from me, when you make a serious
> effort. But when you start playing games or being childish, I am past
> the point of having pity for you. Instead I pity the children.
>
A> You JUST admitted I was posting on-topic and civil posts, during
which you were attacking me.
B> Even here, you include inflammatory text.
> >but he is right there looking
> >to condemn me for being everything from an idiot to a fascist.
>
> I don't have to look. You shove it in people's face.
>
Inflammatory text, again.
> >In fact, HE is the main reason I get defensive on these groups
>
> Excuses, excuses. Take some responsibility for your own behavior,
> child.
>
> lojbab
Sure, Bob. Whatever. It's all my fault, and I'm pure evil. Can we
get back on topic, now, instead of just attacking me?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:19:57 -0800 (PST), Wide Eyed in Wonder
If I loved him like Jesus, I guess I'd call him a viper or such...but,
what would be the point. It's not like everyone else doesn't know how
Bob acts, or yourself for that matter.
So, I notice this is the ONLY post you've done on this thread. Do you
want to post something on topic?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Feminazi Cuntkins
<writi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>If I loved him like Jesus, I guess I'd call him a viper or such...but,
>what would be the point. It's not like everyone else doesn't know how
>Bob acts, or yourself for that matter.
That's true in a way that makes the viper turn around and bite you on
the ass.
>So, I notice this is the ONLY post you've done on this thread. Do you
>want to post something on topic?
This is an unmoderated forum in the midst of a (not so) gentle
anarchy. Your behaviour is on topic. Learn how usenet works, Kenny.
FNC, and here's your accordion
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aa816397-eaad-4c0e...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 3, 12:19 pm, "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote:
>> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:5f918505-0db7-478c...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> All candidates must do is pass a criminal background test (like all
>> >> teachers), have any bachelors degree (even religion, fine arts,
>> >> marketing,
>> >> public safety, ...) with no requirement for a correlation with public
>> >> school
>> >> curriculum, pass 2 trivial tests (no wonder you feel you have learned
>> >> nothing), and pay $500.
>>
>> > I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
>> > the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
>> > teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
>> > large failure rate of 40 percent).
>>
>> That might be why you felt this way, because you were "retaking" the
>> general
>> knowledge courses, instead of the pedagogy courses....perhaps you need to
>> take those now? Or is that what ABCTE offers? The upper level courses
>> (3000 and 4000 level coursework)?
>
> I have taken:
> Schools and Society
> Human Development and Learning
> Diversity and Inclusion
> Classroom Management
> Testing
> Instructional Presentation and Follow-up
>
> I was just talking about subject area courses with Larry.
Interesting...I can almost see the parallels to some of the coursework (I
admit to many assumptions here <g>)...what type of course is "Schools and
Society"?
SumBuny
"Larry Hewitt" <larr...@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:fqi7io$jnd$1...@news04.infoave.net...
Don't ya hate when they have those looooong urls and you want to share?
Have you ever seen this site?
http://tinyurl.com/
Comes in handy for this kind of thing....
Here would be the one for the special ed link....
http://www.abcte.org/teach/exam-preparation/resources?op0=OR
&filter0%5B%5D=77&filter0%5B%5D=80&filter0%5B%5D
=81&filter0%5B%5D=78&filter0%5B%5D=79&op1=OR&
;filter1%5B%5D=16&filter1%5B%5D=17&filter1%5B%5D=18
The site then translates it to the following:
Much easier to work with :-)
>
> Obviously no 3000 or 4000 level course can be taught using a couple of
> CDs, a half dozen general texts, and some online sources with this many
> subjects. I can't find it now, but I saw yesterday a page where they
> charge about $850 for the CDs, but I can't find it now.
>
> AS I noted in other posts, where I certified in Math students were
> required to take a minimum of 9 credits in pedagogy and 9 in the subject
> for elementary ed. ABCTE provides links to, but does not require, books in
> trig, calc I, and linear algebra., and a refesher book for those who have
> never had college math. No pedagogy.
>
> Again, there are no requirements that you read the material, all you have
> to do is pass the tests. I suspect the 40% failure rte Kenny trumpets is
> more the result of people trrying to pass the tests without preparaton
> than the difficulty of the tests.
>
> Being online, the exams are not proctored and the identity of the test
> taker is not verified. I had to show 2 forms of ID for the praxis and
> sign a statement that I was who I claimed to be. And of course, the exams
> were strictly proctored.
>
> They claim to have certified 4000 teachers since 2001 (when they started)
> but they provide no stats for how many are actually employed nor how long
> they have worked.
>
> The NEA link I provided earlier indicated that few early graduates gained
> permanent employment.
I wonder about this too, consdering the requirements for graduating in
Florida (the state that Kenny claims he wants to teach in) and their Gordon
rule (24K words written across the curriculum, tech in across the
curriculum, speaking across the curriulum)...This was to prep students for
careers, because they were found to be floundering. The practica hours were
also increased substantially because of the rate of struggle in new
teachers--this seems to be absent here as well....how is this going to
produce "high quality instructors" with retention?
I wish the best for the adults...but I worry for the students...but then
again, I am an advocate for the students <g>
SumBuny
"Larry Hewitt" <larr...@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:fqieu3$r6d$1...@news04.infoave.net...
>
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b6c8430f-9790-4dc3...@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 3, 7:10 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>>> "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:qiXyj.22763$y05....@newsfe22.lga...
>
> Questions?
>
> Have you any knowledge of personal development plans, or whatever they are
> called there, for children deemed impaired? What do you need to do to
> accomodate a hearing impaired, vison mpaired, physically impaired,
> cognitively impaired student? Have any knowledge of the laws concerning
> the impaired/disabled student? Or any knowedge of liability laws
> pertaining to teachers? Do you know the requirements for parental
> notification? Reporting requirements of NCLB? How about NCLB standards for
> everything from attendance --- even teachers! --- classroom time, etc>
> What triggers the intervention of the district psychiatrist? What are your
> responsibilities if a parent requests an examination of their child for a
> learning disability? How do you handle a student who does not speak
> english as a first language?
>
> All of this, and more, was part of the 3000 and 4000 level educ classes.
> Screwing up some of them can result in anything from a lawsuit to
> immediate dismissal.
Other good questions that probably will not come up in this coursework, that
*will* come up in traditional coursework given in the state in which the
teacher wishes to teach (I know, this would put teachers transferring at a
disadvantage).
Do you understand the concept of the "Response to Intervention" model that
the State of Florida has signed onto? This will be the new model for all
classrooms, statewide, and is being taught in all universities now. Is it
being taught in the ABCTE system as well, so that you may be prepared to
teach in Florida?
Alternative education is not a bad thing, I have worked in several
alternative systems and find that they work for several student
populations...however, I also find that some people who work in alternative
ed can be just as inflexibly hidebound by *their* blinders as those who are
in "traditional" classrooms...I.e., alternative ed becomes their
"tradition"....
Don't become boxed in by your tradition, whatever it is....
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f5cddb7d-231d-469c...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 3, 9:16 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>
>> Honestly, no offense inteded, but you are gonna have a miserable time. AS
>> other teachers here have noted, without the training in pedagogy, human
>> development, and such you are going into the lion's den. Even with the
>> observation. The kids will smell blood as a first time teacher, and you
>> are
>> woeflly unprepared.
>
> Larry,
>
> My life is busy enough without having to do your research for
> you....even research from my own posts. I posted info to SumBuny and
> yourself about the Education coursework that I have taken from a
> separate NCATE approved school, yet you keep pushing the false,
> prejudicial data from above.
Hmmmm..."prejudice" can work both ways, though....don't become too
prejudiced against non-alternative ed either <g>
SumBuny
"Larry Hewitt" <larr...@comporium.net> wrote in message
news:fqi4kt$gqo$1...@news04.infoave.net...
>
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5f918505-0db7-478c...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 1, 7:31 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>>> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>> messagenews:05349fca-b5b9-46f5...@z17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> >I appreciate your comments, but your situation isn't comparable to
>>> > mine, and your training is not comparable with ABCTE (nor
>>> > qualification). See below.
>>>
>>> > On Mar 1, 12:38 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>>> >> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>> >> messagenews:a86d5e65-e0dc-4f7b...@q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>> The ABCTE certification program apparently bypasses the whole PRAXIS
>>> certification process, requires no expertise or training in the
>>> subject(s)
>>> being taught, and does not require any education/training or experience
>>> in
>>> working with children.
>>>
>>
>> This is complete fiction. Florida has a general test, a subject area
>> test, and a professional teaching test. ABCTE, itself, requires a
>> subject area test and a teaching test to graduate. Thus, it MIRRORS
>> Praxis and requires expertise in order to be certified. Finally, can
>> you point me to ANY school of Education that requires working with the
>> children to be admitted? If you are going to point to student
>> teaching, ABCTE requires a teaching observation that is LONGER than
>> that of colleges to be fully certified in Florida.
>>
>
> Florida standards, then, are poor.
>
> Most of the rest of the country has much stronger standards.
>
> And I doubt , strongly, your statement about classroom triaining. AS noted
> above, in my state for a standard college certificatoin 30 hrs of
> supervised and 3 1/2 full time months of unsupervised is required. I know
> of 5 other states with the same requirements. Floirida is the first I have
> heard of that doesn;t.
If you are talking about practica, in our univsersity system (I am in
Florida), it has changed to three semesters of 100 hours each, plus one
smester of student teaching. The practica *were* 60 hours, but it was
increased to 100 hours each, because it was thought that the students were
not egetting enough experience in the classroom.
Uh, no...the State of Florida is still the one to certify teachers. People
may take the tests in different areas around the state (we do not have to
travel to Tallahassee), but it is still a state exam and a state cert, not a
district cert. The only "district cert" that I know of is for substitute
teaching.
http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/
SumBuny
"stevericks" <steve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fb1zj.16360$pp6....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>I have no doubt you have what it takes. My concern was more that having a
>student teaching experience under a good mentor will make life a lot less
>stressful for you, and you have a chance to learn what might take years,
>otherwise. Although I did have student teaching when I started teaching,
>the supervising teacher was NOT exactly what I would call a mentor -done
>during summer school in science with the football coach as supervising
>teacher-you can only imagine (a great tale for another time).
>
> Last Friday a friend of mine at the state department that is over a new
> mentoring program showed me stats that about 25% of our new teachers were
> quitting teaching after the first year. With the (new) mentoring program
> , it reduced to one half of one percent.
<G> I totally agree with you on this one...I have had a mentor in the spec
ed department for a few years now, even though I am not actually teaching
yet (I have subbed for years, and tutored)...she has guided me through the
subbing, tutoring, and has shown me the difference between what happens in
the college classroom exercises and the "real world" (yes, I have mentioned
this place as well <g>)
A good mentor to take a "newbie" teacher under his/her wing makes all the
difference.
Cary Kittrell
> Steve,
>
> All you need to know about Bob's view of myself is that he has
> attacked me for years on a number of problems, even when I sought
> peace. I've broken off conversation many times, and each time he acts
> like a spoiled little brat, suggesting that I gave up due to being
> wrong....pumping me to get back into the fight. I idiotically still
> give into the temptation, at times.
>
> I'm not exactly sure what Bob's agenda or reasoning is for attacking
> me. I thought that posting pure Educational posts on these groups
> would allow for a normal conversation, but he is right there looking
> to condemn me for being everything from an idiot to a fascist. There
> are other times that he has defamed my family,
> my school, my children,
> and more.
>
> Who knows what he hopes to accomplish, but I've given up expecting him
> to be any different. Just know that his attacks about me have nothing
> to do with Education or my ability to teach but, only, his desire to
> grind me into the dirt. In fact, HE is the main reason I get
> defensive on these groups
And is Bob also the main reason you get offensive in these
groups, initiating provocative, in-your-face threads on topics such
as evolution, the Democratic National Committee, alleged
Hollywood plots to undermine Christian-themed movies,
electoral politics, bizarre theological meteorological
theories, Islam bashing, liberal bashing, pantheism bashing,
Democratic dissension, the war in Iraq, the (imaginary) war
in Iran, atheism, and endless multi-part Scripture lessons?
Please note that I have no objection to all that -- if it
pleases you to hold up an endless cavalcade of KICK ME
signs, how can I complain? You can't buy entertainment
like this.
But when you, abruptly setting aside years of intentionally
seeking confontation, starting threads you KNOW will provoke
heated responses, "bumping" them if they don't, and generally
acting like the Usenet equivalent of a bar fighter -- when
you then turn around and try to assume the mantle of wounded
innocence, bewildred when you are attacked for no good reason,
the harmless kid being harrassed by the schoolyard bully --
well, I've said it before: there ought to be a special
word for irony this deep.
-- cary
SumBuny
"stevericks" <steve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:id3zj.15568$rE5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Bob,
> I am all for giving him the benefit of the doubt. The early part of my
> career was in working with new teachers. College classes can help, but
> there is nothing like experience under a good mentor. I'm still not sure
> if his certification requires teaching under a supervising teacher or not
> (may have said but I'm pressed for time lately and am only skimming some
> of the responses).
>
> Someone made a post earlier about military having trouble adapting to
> classrooms. In my Sunday School class we currently have 2 ex-military
> that just entered the teaching force this year. I don't know too much
> about ranks or how they compare, however, one was a commander/Navy and the
> other a colonel/army (we are located at the nation's war college-all high
> ranking services go through here). Anyway, one has gone back to college
> and taken a number of ed courses, including doing an internship. She has
> been working full time since Christmas (hired to replace someone
> quitting ) and is doing a fabulous job. In fact, I talked with the
> director of instruction of her district the other day and was told she was
> adapting very well.. The other went through a "quickie" alternative
> certificate (temporary certification I think) with no student teaching and
> now he is having a devil of a time. That is not to say that all will
> follow this pattern. The program I oversee requires any news teacher to
> have a mentor, and I'm proud of that.
> Steve
Troops to Teachers is another alternative path...you might be surprised at
how much pedagogy some of these men and women actually have in their
careers, how many of them have actual instructor training because of their
careers. True, not a heck of *child* development (unless you include late
adolescent, that is <g>), but those who made a career out of the military
and end up with degrees with their upper ranks usually end up with more than
a few psych courses with it as well--one has to do be able to handle
troops/squadrons with any sort of efficiency. Usually the T2T path involves
adding the pedagogy courses that were missed in their degree path, and
perhaps a refresher course or two, and the practica/student teaching.
Sometimes they can CLEP a few of them if they had comparable coursework in
their career fields (depending on what type of instructors they were). T2T
also has an option for spouses as well.
Feminazi Cuntkins
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
>In article <6f726b26-2544-4b24...@60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Wide Eyed in Wonder <writi...@yahoo.com> writes:
(his usual stuff)
>But when you, abruptly setting aside years of intentionally
>seeking confontation, starting threads you KNOW will provoke
>heated responses, "bumping" them if they don't, and generally
>acting like the Usenet equivalent of a bar fighter -- when
>you then turn around and try to assume the mantle of wounded
>innocence, bewildred when you are attacked for no good reason,
>the harmless kid being harrassed by the schoolyard bully --
>well, I've said it before: there ought to be a special
>word for irony this deep.
Farce.
FNC, nothing more
Cary Kittrell
Feminazi Cuntkins <jaeza...@gmail.com>
YOU TAKE THAT BACK! RIGHT NOW! Not going to happen.
No no no no no way no!
I plan on spending eternity with all the good drummers, and
I have NO intention of trading a few decades of tinnitus
for an eternity of whining in my ear.
-- cary
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:aa816397-eaad-4c0e...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
It discusses the teaching profession, school law, parental
communication, etc.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Thanks for bringing my past (or your view of it) into our current
discussion. You would think my desire to post on topic and non-
hostile posts would be welcomed by you with positive
reinforcement...or...I could go the other way. What do you
want...just to get in a quick jab at the man seeking peace?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Cary Kittrell
"My view of it"? Shall I provide a list of the threads
started by you which correspond to the topics I mentioned?
And then shall I add some dozen more, each equally
bellicose, each created to provoke?
My view, of it, huh?...
> into our current
> discussion. You would think my desire to post on topic and non-
> hostile posts would be welcomed by you
Did I say a single snarky thing in the current thread?
> with positive reinforcement...or...I could go the other way.
You just did. Massively. And pathetically -- "poor poor
pitiful me" worked for Warren and for Linda. It feels
like the epitome of hypocrisy when you attempt it.
> What do you
> want...just to get in a quick jab at the man seeking peace?
Let me type this v e r y s l o w l y -- if someone
had dozens of convictions for grand theft, auto, in
his past, and one day you see him coming toward you
driving a nice shiny Jaguar XV series car, is your
first reaction "Hey, I wonder if he paid sticker for that?"
...right?
-- cary
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:163f5bd3-0e69-45cf...@s13g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 4, 10:16 am, "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote:
>> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:aa816397-eaad-4c0e...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> > I have taken:
>> > Schools and Society
>> > Human Development and Learning
>> > Diversity and Inclusion
>> > Classroom Management
>> > Testing
>> > Instructional Presentation and Follow-up
>>
>> > I was just talking about subject area courses with Larry.
>>
>> Interesting...I can almost see the parallels to some of the coursework (I
>> admit to many assumptions here <g>)...what type of course is "Schools and
>> Society"?
>
> It discusses the teaching profession, school law, parental
> communication, etc.
Ah...I have not taken that as discrete course, but those concepts have been
taught within other courses...
SumBuny
"Cary Kittrell" <ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fqk205$llc$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
<monitor towel>
Hey--you should at least give warning when you do this around lunch time!
(I really *should* be working on my online course now, instead of watching
this entertainment!)
Feminazi Cuntkins
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
>
>Feminazi Cuntkins <jaeza...@gmail.com>
>>
>> This is an unmoderated forum in the midst of a (not so) gentle
>> anarchy. Your behaviour is on topic. Learn how usenet works, Kenny.
>
>> FNC, and here's your accordion
>
>YOU TAKE THAT BACK! RIGHT NOW! Not going to happen.
>No no no no no way no!
>
>I plan on spending eternity with all the good drummers
Oh puleeze, you never even NOTICE the poor drummers, you bass line
snob.
> and
>I have NO intention of trading a few decades of tinnitus
>for an eternity of whining in my ear.
Chick & Gene will drown him right out. Not that you'll be in that
particular vestibule anyway.
FNC, aloha from...
Larry Hewitt
"stevericks" <steve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:id3zj.15568$rE5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Bob,
> I am all for giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I'm afraid I'm with Bob.
Kenny has a long history on hte net, anf based on that I think he is
basinghis plans on faith and fantasy, not reality.
The early part of my
> career was in working with new teachers. College classes can help, but
> there is nothing like experience under a good mentor.
Absolutely.
But part of a college teaching educatoin is student teaching.
I'm still not sure if
> his certification requires teaching under a supervising teacher or not
He is being typically vague.
(may
> have said but I'm pressed for time lately and am only skimming some of the
> responses).
>
> Someone made a post earlier about military having trouble adapting to
> classrooms.
That was me.
> In my Sunday School class we currently have 2 ex-military that just
> entered the teaching force this year. I don't know too much about ranks or
> how they compare, however, one was a commander/Navy and the other a
> colonel/army (we are located at the nation's war college-all high ranking
> services go through here).
Both are igh ranks, teh civilian equivalents of division head or vp
Anyway, one has gone back to college and taken a
> number of ed courses, including doing an internship. She has been working
> full time since Christmas (hired to replace someone quitting ) and is
> doing a fabulous job. In fact, I talked with the director of instruction
> of her district the other day and was told she was adapting very well..
> The other went through a "quickie" alternative certificate (temporary
> certification I think) with no student teaching and now he is having a
> devil of a time.
Been there. NOt at all fun. Kids are like sharks --- they can smell the
blood of a newbie teacher and start circling for hte kill.
I didn't mean to imply that it couldn;t be dne or that inability was
universal.
But most military personell, especially thelower ranks with direct command
of of a unit are used to absolute obedience.
AS you well know that rarely occurs with children.
I have seen hardassed ex- military driven to distraction by an unruly
classroom. Not all. But enough.
> That is not to say that all will follow this pattern. The program I
> oversee requires any news teacher to have a mentor, and I'm proud of that.
I cannot say enough good about mentoring programs. They are invaluable. I
don;t think I could have made it through my first year without my mentor.
Larry
> Steve
>
>
> "Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
> news:12cps3l40igovftou...@4ax.com...
Larry Hewitt
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f5cddb7d-231d-469c...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 3, 9:16 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>
>> Honestly, no offense inteded, but you are gonna have a miserable time. AS
>> other teachers here have noted, without the training in pedagogy, human
>> development, and such you are going into the lion's den. Even with the
>> observation. The kids will smell blood as a first time teacher, and you
>> are
>> woeflly unprepared.
>
> Larry,
>
> My life is busy enough without having to do your research for
> you....even research from my own posts. I posted info to SumBuny and
> yourself about the Education coursework that I have taken from a
> separate NCATE approved school, yet you keep pushing the false,
> prejudicial data from above.
You are resonspible for defending your own psots, not me.
T I have seen NOTHING defending what you said, and I too, am busy, much too
busy to to do YOUR research for you.
NOTHING I have posted, except for the testing locale which I acknowedge was
in error, is false or prejudicial.
I have quoted DIRECTLY fromthe ABCTE web site to support my statements, from
teching colleges to supoprt national certification standards, from the NEA
with their links to national boards to support their statements.
I see NOTHING like that from you aside from a newspaper article and a
general link to a cpmplex state site.
> If you have no interest in finding the
> truth but are only on a mission to attack me, I have better things to
I am only interested in the truth, not in your paranoia.
You have a long,long hostory of making statements, not supporting them, then
diverting the discussion to paranoid, megalomaniaical defense rather than
directly responding to posters.
I couldn't give a hoot about you.
But, because I care about the truth, I _refuse_ to let you spam the 'net
with lies and half truths without response.
Larry
> do. I hope you find peace.
>
> Kenneth Clifton
> christiansuperhero.com
Larry Hewitt
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
Thanks.
They have done the same thing here in South Carolina, even including a final
educ capstone course to guide graduating seniors in how to manage their
careers.
> I wish the best for the adults...but I worry for the students...but then
> again, I am an advocate for the students <g>
>
Amen. <G>
Larry
Larry Hewitt
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
I agree. AS I noted early in the thread, I got certified through an
alternative program run by the state.
But it was _far_ more rigorous than ABCTE, and what (admittedly little) I am
seeing from florida.
For ex, we had to have a BS in math, English, history, or a science ---- no
religion, divinity, business, marketing, fine arts like ABCTE accepts, we
had to complete one month of 8 hr a day education the summer before we
entered the classroom, twice a month sessions with the district to learn
state and local regs for 2 years, one weekend a semester back with the
state plus a week during christmas for the first two years, and 9 credits of
MAT classes within our 3 yr probationary period.
These demands weeded a lot of us out (including me, I never finished the MAT
classes), but those that survived are good teaachers.
And with all this I regret not having any real classroom experience. My 8th
grade class was brutal the frst year, despite my experience raising kids and
working with kids groups.
Larry
SumBuny
"Feminazi Cuntkins" <jaeza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fs3rs35jsfu87rbdq...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:07:17 +0000 (UTC), ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu
> (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
>>
>>Feminazi Cuntkins <jaeza...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> This is an unmoderated forum in the midst of a (not so) gentle
>>> anarchy. Your behaviour is on topic. Learn how usenet works, Kenny.
>>
>>> FNC, and here's your accordion
>>
>>YOU TAKE THAT BACK! RIGHT NOW! Not going to happen.
>>No no no no no way no!
>>
>>I plan on spending eternity with all the good drummers
>
> Oh puleeze, you never even NOTICE the poor drummers, you bass line
> snob.
Hey...Thing two at my house plays bass drum....
>
>> and
>>I have NO intention of trading a few decades of tinnitus
>>for an eternity of whining in my ear.
>
> Chick & Gene will drown him right out. Not that you'll be in that
> particular vestibule anyway.
>
> FNC, aloha from...
>
Mahalo for some great witicisms...
Larry Hewitt
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
I like that. Here in SC it is one semester of 150hrs and one semester of
student teaching.
Thanks,
I thought district certification smelled fishy.
Larry
Feminazi Cuntkins
<Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote:
>
>"Feminazi Cuntkins" <jaeza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:fs3rs35jsfu87rbdq...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:07:17 +0000 (UTC), ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu
>> (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
>>>
>>>I plan on spending eternity with all the good drummers
>>
>> Oh puleeze, you never even NOTICE the poor drummers, you bass line
>> snob.
>
>Hey...Thing two at my house plays bass drum....
Hey, I mean that funny acromegalic fiddle that he's got such a thing
about. Drumming is the most, dude! kittraell has good taste in
general, but he's got some sort of weird blind spot when it comes to
drummers.
>Mahalo for some great witicisms...
Freaky, I learned that word yesterday.
FNC, and there's NO SUCH THING as synchronicity
Cary Kittrell
> @e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <birqs31ioip29s6n0...@4ax.com> <fqjvk5$6cs$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu> <fs3rs35jsfu87rbdq...@4ax.com> <jWjzj.11712$f8....@newsfe23.lga>
> Reply-To: jaeza...@gmail.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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> Cancel-Lock: sha1:rvOZTOjxbDHgLFjj82T0r+VbY7Q=
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
> Xref: news.arizona.edu alt.education:105424 k12.chat.teacher:25193 k12.ed.life-skills:1168
>
> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:20:08 -0600, "SumBuny"
> <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote:
> >
> >"Feminazi Cuntkins" <jaeza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:fs3rs35jsfu87rbdq...@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:07:17 +0000 (UTC), ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu
> >> (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>I plan on spending eternity with all the good drummers
> >>
> >> Oh puleeze, you never even NOTICE the poor drummers, you bass line
> >> snob.
> >
> >Hey...Thing two at my house plays bass drum....
>
> Hey, I mean that funny acromegalic fiddle that he's got such a thing
> about. Drumming is the most, dude! kittraell has good taste in
> general, but he's got some sort of weird blind spot when it comes to
> drummers.
One word, babe:
Joemorello.
(also, Animal)
-- cary
Feminazi Cuntkins
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
>In article <uejrs3hh3vliu0m60...@4ax.com> Feminazi Cuntkins <jaeza...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hey, I mean that funny acromegalic fiddle that he's got such a thing
>> about. Drumming is the most, dude! kittraell has good taste in
>> general, but he's got some sort of weird blind spot when it comes to
>> drummers.
>
>One word, babe:
>
>Joemorello.
One transcendent three minute drum solo does not an aficionado make.
You never mention the drumming, you're always yammering on about the
fricking obese fiddle thing.
>(also, Animal)
I'd do him.
FNC, and Rab Scabies.
Bob LeChevalier
>Kenny insists that a long period of observed teaching is required, but I can
>find nothing about this on the web site --- I'll admit I find it difficult
>to navigate. In any event, OJT training like this is not listed above and I
>sincerely doubt it is as long a s the full semester full time and semsester
>of 2 hrs a day that colleges require
It isn't in the website. I finally figured out what he was talking
about. The requirements for ABCTE temp certification in Florida
include what is called an "approved professional education competence
evaluation system", in addition to whatever ABCTE requires. But they
never say what it is on the state education website. With a little
digging, I found that it is defined in the Florida statutes, 1012.56
(7b), which says:
<b) Each school district must and a state supported public school or a
< private school may develop and maintain a system by which members of
< the instructional staff may demonstrate mastery of professional
< education competence as required by law. Each program must be based
< on classroom application and instructional performance and must
< include a performance evaluation plan for documenting the
< demonstration of required professional education competence.
https://www.sdhc.k12.fl.us/staff_inservice_new/AboutACP.asp
describes the specific program used in Hillsborough County. It is a
36 week program. I'll let the teachers decide how it compares to what
normal certificated teachers go through.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
> I thought district certification smelled fishy.
Per my other post, apparently the district certifies his "professional
competence", and then the state certifies him if he meets the other
requirements.
lojbab
Larry Hewitt
Thanks. Looks like a lot of detective work.
It looks like candidates must take 180 hrs of training (at the school?) and
be observed during the first year of teaching . I cannot tell the timing of
the education --- is it before starting to teach or during?
The observation is intermittent, depending on the time of year as little as
twice in an 8 week period.
The education component is, of course, compressed.
Larry
Bob LeChevalier
>"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
>news:u8qrs3p3ebv1dmt50...@4ax.com...
It didn't take long, once I figured out what the issue was. Since I'm
not a teacher, and know nothing of the requirements for normal
certification, that wasn't trivial
lojbab
Wide Eyed in Wonder
Do you have a single thing to say about ABCTE or are you just here to
attack me?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:f5cddb7d-231d-469c...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Very enlightening. I've only been posting with you for a few weeks,
yet you point to a LONG history that you've seen of myself. Hmm..
What other screen name have you been using? Is this Bob?
Oh, and I took note that you didn't apologize for your false charges
that I had no education training, when you were informed otherwise.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote in message
> >news:fqieu3$r6d$1...@news04.infoave.net...
>
> >> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
And your charge is ... what...that Florida is wrong for offering this
program? That no one can be certified through the program and be
successful? Or, is it just that someone with a religion degree
(myself) might get in the door?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
> >news:qiXyj.22763$y05....@newsfe22.lga...
>
>
> >>> I said I felt I learned nothing with my PRIOR school, not ABCTE. And
> >>> the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
> >>> teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
> >>> large failure rate of 40 percent).
>
> >> general knowledge courses, instead of the pedagogy courses....perhaps you
> >> need to take those now? Or is that what ABCTE offers? The upper level
> >> courses (3000 and 4000 level coursework)?
>
> > Apparently no education or training is provided byond what is required to
> > pass their 2 tests.
>
> > Candidates must:
>
> > a.. Hold a Bachelor's degree in any subject area from an approved college
> > or university
> > b.. Pass a background check
> > c.. Pass the ABCTE Professional Teaching Knowledge Exam
> > d.. Pass the ABCTE subject area exam (in the candidate's chosen subject
> > area)
> > can find nothing about this on the web site --- I'll admit I find it
> > difficult to navigate. In any event, OJT training like this is not listed
> > above and I sincerely doubt it is as long a s the full semester full time
> > and semsester of 2 hrs a day that colleges require
>
> Comes in handy for this kind of thing....
>
> Here would be the one for the special ed link....
> http://www.abcte.org/teach/exam-preparation/resources?op0=OR
> &filter0%5B%5D=77&filter0%5B%5D=80&filter0%5B%5D
> =81&filter0%5B%5D=78&filter0%5B%5D=79&op1=OR&
> ;filter1%5B%5D=16&filter1%5B%5D=17&filter1%5B%5D=18
>
> The site then translates it to the following:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2rlo94
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Obviously no 3000 or 4000 level course can be taught using a couple of
> > CDs, a half dozen general texts, and some online sources with this many
> > subjects. I can't find it now, but I saw yesterday a page where they
> > charge about $850 for the CDs, but I can't find it now.
>
> > AS I noted in other posts, where I certified in Math students were
> > required to take a minimum of 9 credits in pedagogy and 9 in the subject
> > for elementary ed. ABCTE provides links to, but does not require, books in
> > trig, calc I, and linear algebra., and a refesher book for those who have
> > never had college math. No pedagogy.
>
> > Again, there are no requirements that you read the material, all you have
> > to do is pass the tests. I suspect the 40% failure rte Kenny trumpets is
> > more the result of people trrying to pass the tests without preparaton
> > than the difficulty of the tests.
>
> > taker is not verified. I had to show 2 forms of ID for the praxis and
> > sign a statement that I was who I claimed to be. And of course, the exams
> > were strictly proctored.
>
> > They claim to have certified 4000 teachers since 2001 (when they started)
> > but they provide no stats for how many are actually employed nor how long
> > they have worked.
>
> > The NEA link I provided earlier indicated that few early graduates gained
> > permanent employment.
>
> I wonder about this too, consdering the requirements for graduating in
> Florida (the state that Kenny claims he wants to teach in) and their Gordon
> rule (24K words written across the curriculum, tech in across the
> curriculum, speaking across the curriulum)...This was to prep students for
> careers, because they were found to be floundering. The practica hours were
> also increased substantially because of the rate of struggle in new
> teachers--this seems to be absent here as well....how is this going to
> produce "high quality instructors" with retention?
>
> again, I am an advocate for the students <g>
Well...as it applies to myself, I went to college for two years in
Florida, took and passed the Clast, and gained much of my liberal arts
courses at Polk Community College and Florida Southern College, which
met that writing requirement. I can also mention that my religion
courses required about 4 long papers per course, formal structure
required. So, you need not worry about me.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
You DO realize that 36 weeks is a full school year...right?
That being asked. I must direct the point to the edge. Would you
question the competency of someone that passed the said competency
evaluation system? It works both ways. Either I am competent by
passing it, or no one else can be deemed competent by it. So, which
is it?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "stevericks" <steveri...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:id3zj.15568$rE5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
> > Bob,
> > I am all for giving him the benefit of the doubt.
>
> I'm afraid I'm with Bob.
Really? I'm shocked.
>
> Kenny has a long history on hte net, anf based on that I think he is
> basinghis plans on faith and fantasy, not reality.
>
Due to a long history (which you were apparently a part of with
another username) of ...what...you think my "plans" (undefined) are
not based on reality. What, exactly, do you think this has to do
with? Are you saying ABCTE is not a valid option? What are the
"plans" that I have that are based on fantasy? Be specific. Finally,
what does this post have to do with whether ABCTE is a good idea for
facing the teacher shortage?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote in message
>
> news:fqi4kt$gqo$1...@news04.infoave.net...> >news:5f918505-0db7-478c...@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Mar 1, 7:31 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
> >>> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>
> >>> >I appreciate your comments, but your situation isn't comparable to
> >>> > mine, and your training is not comparable with ABCTE (nor
> >>> > qualification). See below.
>
> >>> >> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >>> a
> >>> certification without having to do the work.
>
> >>> All candidates must do is pass a criminal background test (like all
> >>> teachers), have any bachelors degree (even religion, fine arts,
> >>> marketing,
> >>> public safety, ...) with no requirement for a correlation with public
> >>> school
> >>> curriculum, pass 2 trivial tests (no wonder you feel you have learned
> >>> nothing), and pay $500.
>
> >> the two "trivial" tests are a multi-subject test and a professional
> >> teaching knowledge test (both on par with the state version with a
> >> large failure rate of 40 percent).
>
> > and, according to the sources I found, the content is not as rigorous as
> > te PRAXIS exams.
>
> > A high failure rate measn nothing without a full description of hte test
> > takers.
>
> >>> Oh, you can also pay $850 for training material.
>
> >>> Again, this bypasses recent trends is strengthening teacher skills and
> >>> training.
>
> >> Only to the degree that district alternative certification system do.
>
> > Except that, as I have noted, other states (Florida allows districts to
> > certify teachers? No other state that I know of allows that, keeping
> > certifcation at the state level) have made their alternative certification
> > programs more rigorous. It makes no sense to, for example, allow teacher
> > candidates to bypass the process described above by getting, say, a "C"
> > average in fine arts, paying $500, having someone else take the online
> > exams, and acheive the same status as the college graduate.
>
> Uh, no...the State of Florida is still the one to certify teachers. People
> may take the tests in different areas around the state (we do not have to
> travel to Tallahassee), but it is still a state exam and a state cert, not a
> district cert. The only "district cert" that I know of is for substitute
> teaching.http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/
The district certification system unto which I was referring was the
state certification that the district Alternative Certification
Program achieved.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "stevericks" <steveri...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>
> news:id3zj.15568$rE5....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>
>
>
> > Bob,
> > career was in working with new teachers. College classes can help, but
> > if his certification requires teaching under a supervising teacher or not
> > of the responses).
>
> > Someone made a post earlier about military having trouble adapting to
> > that just entered the teaching force this year. I don't know too much
> > about ranks or how they compare, however, one was a commander/Navy and the
> > other a colonel/army (we are located at the nation's war college-all high
> > and taken a number of ed courses, including doing an internship. She has
> > been working full time since Christmas (hired to replace someone
> > quitting ) and is doing a fabulous job. In fact, I talked with the
> > director of instruction of her district the other day and was told she was
> > adapting very well.. The other went through a "quickie" alternative
> > certificate (temporary certification I think) with no student teaching and
> > follow this pattern. The program I oversee requires any news teacher to
> > have a mentor, and I'm proud of that.
>
> Troops to Teachers is another alternative path...you might be surprised at
> how much pedagogy some of these men and women actually have in their
> careers, how many of them have actual instructor training because of their
> careers. True, not a heck of *child* development (unless you include late
> adolescent, that is <g>), but those who made a career out of the military
> and end up with degrees with their upper ranks usually end up with more than
> a few psych courses with it as well--one has to do be able to handle
> troops/squadrons with any sort of efficiency. Usually the T2T path involves
> adding the pedagogy courses that were missed in their degree path, and
> perhaps a refresher course or two, and the practica/student teaching.
> Sometimes they can CLEP a few of them if they had comparable coursework in
> their career fields (depending on what type of instructors they were). T2T
> also has an option for spouses as well.
Two items of note. First, Troops to Teachers soldiers can,
officially, use ABCTE to satisfy their requirements...
http://www.abcte.org/get-involved/partners/troops-to-teachers
That being said, the second item is to note that Troops to Teacher
requirements do not require student teaching or mentorship for full
certification. The teacher can teach on a temporary certification,
while they finish the other requirements. So, if ABCTE fails for lack
of student teaching or mentorship, this program fails, as well (not
sure if you held this position but some on here do).
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Bob LeChevalier
>Very enlightening. I've only been posting with you for a few weeks,
You've been "posting with him" for as many years as he has been
reading these newsgroups, which I can assure you is more than a few
weeks. Just because he doesn't respond to you doesn't mean that he
doesn't read your baloney.
You've got to get over the silly idea that no one reads your responses
except those who answer you.
>yet you point to a LONG history that you've seen of myself.
Have you been posting for several years? Are your posts archived?
Then anyone in the world can see the long history of your idiocy.
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier
>On Mar 4, 4:18 pm, "Larry Hewitt" <larryh...@comporium.net> wrote:
>> "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
>program?
Your paranoia is showing. He was responding to Buny in this post, and
made no "charge". Nor even a comment about you.
lojbab