Re: A Challenge to the System (experience - challenge match)
problems@gmail
>Two comments from someone who actually TAUGHT in inner city schools.
Sorry for going somewhat off-topic, but my reading of the
[now snipped] previous writer's input indicates that she knows
answers to some of my questions:-
* would you expect the much publicised one-laptop-per-child
project, originating at MIT, for 3rd world kids to be viable ?
* would junior scholars likely benefit from access to computers
specialy set-up to help educate them, without the supervision
of teachers who were trained to guide them ?
>But, it's usually an effective hours cut, a stress cut, and a
>commute cut.
Yes, I suspect many underestimate the negative effects of commuting.
Many fail to distinguish between 'going to school', 'going to
work' and 'learning', 'working/adding-value'.
Perhaps I'm under estimating the need for kids to meet and learn
how to socialise, but can't some of the '2nd-wave/industrialised/
all-moving-to-the-factory' method of teaching be replaced by
self motivated 'learning', aided by computers ?
== TIA.
Donna Metler
<problems@gmail> wrote in message news:12227526...@vasbyt.isdsl.net...
> Donna Metler wrote:-
>>Two comments from someone who actually TAUGHT in inner city schools.
>
> Sorry for going somewhat off-topic, but my reading of the
> [now snipped] previous writer's input indicates that she knows
> answers to some of my questions:-
>
> * would you expect the much publicised one-laptop-per-child
> project, originating at MIT, for 3rd world kids to be viable ?
>
> * would junior scholars likely benefit from access to computers
> specialy set-up to help educate them, without the supervision
> of teachers who were trained to guide them ?
>
It will depend on the child and the situation. I think a lot of the focus on
"self directed" or "Computer-based" learning comes from adults who are self
motivated to an atypical degree, and, in most cases, have forgotten what it
is like to be 5, 7, 12, or even 17.
I know that on Misc.education the concept of "learning styles" is often
pooh-poohed, but it's very true that young children don't tend to do well if
learning is totally visual/auditory, which is why in Kindergarten classrooms
you'll see what often looks like chaos. Computer instruction, as it
currently exists, is a combination of videos and worksheets, and neither is
a very good teaching or learning technique for young children.
For older students, yes, it can work-the CTY and EPGY programs use
computer-based programs frequently to provide instruction at higher levels
to self-motivated gifted students at a faster pace. However, even then,
there are two adults involved-one locally, who provides active feedback and
supervision then as needed, and one remotely to answer questions.
>>But, it's usually an effective hours cut, a stress cut, and a
>>commute cut.
>
> Yes, I suspect many underestimate the negative effects of commuting.
>
> Many fail to distinguish between 'going to school', 'going to
> work' and 'learning', 'working/adding-value'.
>
> Perhaps I'm under estimating the need for kids to meet and learn
> how to socialise, but can't some of the '2nd-wave/industrialised/
> all-moving-to-the-factory' method of teaching be replaced by
> self motivated 'learning', aided by computers ?
>
Possibly, for the later grades. But for early elementary aged children, this
is going to be a viable learning model for only a few children, and is going
to cause supervision and feedback issues at home. A single-parent household
does not have another adult available to stay home and provide this
supervision and feedback regardless, and even many 2 income families would
have difficulty in doing so given the current economy. Until students are
old enough to responsibly work and stay home on their own, and unless the
specific student has the personality whereby they will do so (and even many
adults find it harder to work without feedback from others, which is why
telecommuting hasn't been a roaring success with companies jumping to adopt
it, even in technological jobs where a vast majority of the work is done on
the computer and could be done anywhere), "self-directed learning" turns
into one of two things-homeschooling, by any other name, where the parent
takes over the active teaching, using the tools as provided, or sending the
child home without an education, in the hopes that he'll choose to get one.
And pretty much anywhere in the USA, the latter has been tried and failed.
We have a high drop out rate and public libraries, but the number of
self-educated people who have actually become economically self-sufficient
via such self-education is small enough that it's noteworthy and newsworthy
to do so.
> == TIA.
>
Herman Rubin
I have no objection to socializing outside of school, and
electronic learning, which includes electronic classes,
not computer learning, does involve remote socializing.
Home schooled children seem to find ways to socialize.
What we do not need is to force children with different
interests and abilities to socialize with those with whom
they have nothing in common. There is not an age-appropriate
behavior for all of that age.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Herman Rubin
Donna Metler <dmme...@xxxcomcast.net> wrote:
><problems@gmail> wrote in message news:12227526...@vasbyt.isdsl.net...
>> Donna Metler wrote:-
>>>Two comments from someone who actually TAUGHT in inner city schools.
>> Sorry for going somewhat off-topic, but my reading of the
>> [now snipped] previous writer's input indicates that she knows
>> answers to some of my questions:-
>> * would you expect the much publicised one-laptop-per-child
>> project, originating at MIT, for 3rd world kids to be viable ?
>> * would junior scholars likely benefit from access to computers
>> specialy set-up to help educate them, without the supervision
>> of teachers who were trained to guide them ?
>It will depend on the child and the situation. I think a lot of the focus on
>"self directed" or "Computer-based" learning comes from adults who are self
>motivated to an atypical degree, and, in most cases, have forgotten what it
>is like to be 5, 7, 12, or even 17.
>I know that on Misc.education the concept of "learning styles" is often
>pooh-poohed, but it's very true that young children don't tend to do well if
>learning is totally visual/auditory, which is why in Kindergarten classrooms
>you'll see what often looks like chaos. Computer instruction, as it
>currently exists, is a combination of videos and worksheets, and neither is
>a very good teaching or learning technique for young children.
The instruction, whatever it is, is visual and auditory, with
a small amount of tactile. Also, I have advocated not computer
instruction, but electronic classes.
And as for age, at 5 my son would get on the floor and read the
adult version of the Encyclopedia Brittanica. And how would you
learn logic and algebra? I would have appreciated real learning
at that age and later, instead of the weak stuff which I could
read in the textbooks in a short time.
>For older students, yes, it can work-the CTY and EPGY programs use
>computer-based programs frequently to provide instruction at higher levels
>to self-motivated gifted students at a faster pace. However, even then,
>there are two adults involved-one locally, who provides active feedback and
>supervision then as needed, and one remotely to answer questions.
Some of this may be needed, but I did not have it when I was
finally able to get to the resources to learn on my own.
>>>But, it's usually an effective hours cut, a stress cut, and a
>>>commute cut.
>> Yes, I suspect many underestimate the negative effects of commuting.
>> Many fail to distinguish between 'going to school', 'going to
>> work' and 'learning', 'working/adding-value'.
The hours spent in commuting are totally wasted time.
>> Perhaps I'm under estimating the need for kids to meet and learn
>> how to socialise, but can't some of the '2nd-wave/industrialised/
>> all-moving-to-the-factory' method of teaching be replaced by
>> self motivated 'learning', aided by computers ?
>Possibly, for the later grades. But for early elementary aged children, this
>is going to be a viable learning model for only a few children, and is going
>to cause supervision and feedback issues at home.
Totally wrong. It is important NOT to tie socialization and
academics; it is academics that get stifled.