Algebra Software Question

[RCC...@hotmail.com]

I am currently teaching "at-risk" youth, whatever that means! :-)

This is a bit long, but I am trying to get enough details to get good
responses! :-)

I have been developing an Algebra over 2 years program (I have them for
9th and 10th grade). Our textbook is VERY dependent on prior knowledge
(ie: they actually remember how to solve equations from pre-algebra).
About 35% of these kids failed 8th grade math before getting to me, so
there is NOT much in the prior knowledge department...

I am looking for some good software to use along with our text.
Something that allows them to work at their own pace, but if they are
quick, keeps them going!

I have been looking at a piece of software called the Carnegie Learning
Cognative Tutor, but it seems to be more of a stand alone product, and
my department is VERY much wanting me to keep with the text.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
~Robyn

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[Guess who]

On Tue, 03 May 2005 03:29:17 GMT, RCC...@hotmail.com wrote:

>I have been developing an Algebra over 2 years program (I have them for
>9th and 10th grade).

You are developing your own course, without outside guidelines? Then
it's entirely up to you and your own resources.

>Our textbook is VERY dependent on prior knowledge

That is no different from any other that I know of. If you spot that
their weakness is that prior knowledge, and if they are recognised as
"kids at risk" then you are again at risk of losing them. You need to
be teaching them that prerequisite knowledge instead, not some watered
down version along with a watered down version of the new topics.
That is not your problem, but one in administration.

>I am looking for some good software to use along with our text.

There is no software that will replace a good text, so look for a
better text. I'd suggest an older one [or several] from a used-book
store for a source of well-developed exercises, but math was tough for
many even back then. If you want repetitive exercise [usually a good
option for people who don't catch on quickly] you can also make up
your own, either by hand, or with the help of a spreadsheet. I've
done both often enough. But that's the only sort of software for
algebra I would recommend. I could give you a quick heads-up on how
to do that, but it might be difficult since one can not send binary
samples here. I give them free to local colleagues.

What sort of algebra are you covering? Addition of like terms,
exponents, factoring, multiplication .... .

Let me temper that just a little. Here's a site for some software
that might be of interest to you:
http://www.johnandgwyn.co.uk/home.html

However, whereas such sites will offer spreadsheets applications, you
can readily learn how to make your own.

[Karl M. Bunday]

Robyn wrote:

> I am looking for some good software to use along with our text.
> Something that allows them to work at their own pace, but if they are
> quick, keeps them going!

Try ALEKS.

http://www.aleks.com

The higher education versions of that software are now being correlated
with common textbooks. Maybe that is something the company will do in
younger grades in the future, but even today ALEKS is a useful program,
and not too expensive.

--
Karl M. Bunday P.O. Box 1456, Minnetonka MN 55345
Learn in Freedom (TM) http://learninfreedom.org/
remove ".de" to email

[Kevin Karplus]

On 2005-05-04, Karl M. Bunday <kmbu...@yahoo.de.com> wrote:
> Try ALEKS.
>
> http://www.aleks.com
>
> The higher education versions of that software are now being correlated
> with common textbooks. Maybe that is something the company will do in
> younger grades in the future, but even today ALEKS is a useful program,
> and not too expensive.

I'm interested in opinions any one has about ALEKS and EPGY.

Background: I was planning to enroll my son in the EPGY 5th-6th grade
course this summer, after he finishes working through the Singapore
grade 4 math books (should take about another month).

The slowness of EPGY in coming out with Mac OS X software and the high
price per class is making me a bit reluctant. I just heard about
ALEKS from Karl's post, and I would like information (or informed
opinion) about the advantages of the two methods. (ALEKS is obviously
cheaper---my question is about the value, not the price.)

I did do a google search and found a few opinions, the most useful of
which were at
http://www.geniusdenied.com/Cybersource/Record.aspx?sid=10539
I am still looking for more data.

Comparisons of either the EPGY materials or the ALEKS materials with
the Singapore books would be useful also. My interest is in their
suitability for a gifted child who likes word problems and is bored by
drill, *not* in their suitability for the mythical "average" student
or for students who dislike math, having learning disabilities, or any
of the other subsets of students that ALEKS and Singapore may be seen
as useful or.

------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Karplus kar...@soe.ucsc.edu http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
Professor of Biomolecular Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
(Senior member, IEEE) (Board of Directors, ISCB)
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Affiliations for identification only.

[Karl M. Bunday]

Kevin wrote:

> I'm interested in opinions any one has about ALEKS and EPGY.
>
> Background: I was planning to enroll my son in the EPGY 5th-6th grade
> course this summer, after he finishes working through the Singapore
> grade 4 math books (should take about another month).

Your son is exactly where my son was three years ago. I also went from
Singapore Primary Mathematics 4 (not quite completed) to EPGY
fifth-and-sixth-grade.

> The slowness of EPGY in coming out with Mac OS X software and the high
> price per class is making me a bit reluctant. I just heard about
> ALEKS from Karl's post, and I would like information (or informed
> opinion) about the advantages of the two methods. (ALEKS is obviously
> cheaper---my question is about the value, not the price.)

I first tried ALEKS as an online free trial a while after seeing it
described as having "most of the advantages of EPGY at considerably less
cost," or words close to that. The enormous difference between EPGY and
ALEKS is that EPGY has audio, and ALEKS is strictly reading words from a
computer screen to get help. Also ALEKS has no human "tutors" (distance
learning teachers) whatever, while EPGY has real, live human tutors who
at a minimum provide some spot corrections to homework and can also
answer questions. (I have used EPGY tutors mostly as external goads and
implicit progress-checkers; we hardly ever ask EPGY tutors any questions.)

EPGY and ALEKS are about equally good at that level as to syllabus and
self-pacing. EPGY exercises are more varied, and there is more humor in
the EPGY course. I have not tried that level of ALEKS, so I don't know
how buggy ALEKS is at that level. (EPGY can be buggy, but the bugs are
continually eradicated.)

> I did do a google search and found a few opinions, the most useful of
> which were at
> http://www.geniusdenied.com/Cybersource/Record.aspx?sid=10539
> I am still looking for more data.

Yes, that site in general has a growing amount of good information about
educational concerns that I suppose you have.

> Comparisons of either the EPGY materials or the ALEKS materials with
> the Singapore books would be useful also. My interest is in their
> suitability for a gifted child who likes word problems and is bored by
> drill, *not* in their suitability for the mythical "average" student
> or for students who dislike math, having learning disabilities, or any
> of the other subsets of students that ALEKS and Singapore may be seen
> as useful or.

My son doesn't like "drill" either, but I am glad that he did the
optional "math races" in the EPGY fifth- through seventh-grade sequence.
They are not required at all, but I thought they were helpful for his
mental arithmetic. The math races are presented as word problems,
mostly, and by the end they are conditional probability word problems
along the lines of

Jim-Bob and Fred went to the ice cream store, which serves 34 flavors.
Fred likes 14 of those flavors. If Jim-Bob orders 10 scoops of ice
cream, what is the probability that Fred will like all ten scoops?

(Any logical errors in that problem or underspecification are my
fault--this is my remembered example of a "seventh-grade" problem from
EPGY.)

If ALEKS runs on a Mac, and EPGY doesn't, you could try the free trial
right away to see if you think you would like it, and commence
immediately if you think ALEKS meets your needs. (ALEKS allows an
UNLIMITED number of free trials.) My intention for my second son, maybe
a year or two from now, is to do EPGY at that age range. I like EPGY a
lot. I should note that EPGY has very good financial aid for families up
to at least a United States median income level, so its forbidding list
price is not applied to all customers, and I think it also offers
school-site pricing that is more favorable than individual list price.
If your son is in school, and the school can be persuaded to sign up for
the school program on compatible hardware, you may have a channel for
using EPGY at a more reasonable out-of-pocket expense.

--
Karl M. Bunday P.O. Box 1456, Minnetonka MN 55345
Learn in Freedom (TM) http://learninfreedom.org/
remove ".de" to email

--

[cls]

did you ever find what you needed for math curriculum? what you are talking
about I'm very familiar with. If you want to connect email me
directly...I'm interested in what you have to say (RCC).

Cory S.
<RCC...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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