Using candy as a reward...bad idea!
Wide Eyed in Wonder
healthy foods in the cafeteria and the progress they are making in
making lunch menus more healthy.
Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
treats. When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...the kids said the candy
was for rewards or incentive. How stupid is this? Candy's sugar rush
will have a crashing effect on the student's performance, not to
mention that it sends the wrong message to the kids about fitness and
junk food. How are we supposed to be convincing kids to eat healthy,
when we are modeling and motivating by way of sugar?
While sugar has a negative effect on all students, it is an especially
bad idea for ADHD kids. For these kids, the sugar basically undoes a
lot of the medication and self-control that they have and sets them
off. Indeed, how many kids sent out of the room for disobedience and
distraction have just been loaded up with sugar and fat due to
classroom sweets?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Rowley
> A recent article in NEA Today focused on the slow conversion to
> healthy foods in the cafeteria and the progress they are making in
> making lunch menus more healthy.
Yeah, the kids were I was teaching hated when they adjusted the portion
size of the food in the regular lunch line. they started getting like
3-4 green beans, a table spoon and a half of mashed potatoes.
> Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
> treats.
Wonder where that is happening, the campus I was at had a policy about
no candy in the classroom. Course then again, it seemed every other week
that some group or another was selling candy as a fund-raiser and if it
wasn't a school club or organization, it was some of the kids selling
candy for their church group. I didn't mind the candy as much as I did
picking up the wrappers.
Heck, just yesterday one of the guys I work with brought in twenty cases
of his daughter's Girl Scout cookies to sale. Thought I wasn't going to
have to deal with such things now that I ain't teaching.....
> When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
> draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...the kids said the candy
> was for rewards or incentive. How stupid is this? Candy's sugar rush
> will have a crashing effect on the student's performance, not to
> mention that it sends the wrong message to the kids about fitness and
> junk food. How are we supposed to be convincing kids to eat healthy,
> when we are modeling and motivating by way of sugar?
There are tons of books out there on rewards based incentives and ones
on behavioral modification - problem is, it takes some skill at making
them work.
Martin
pier...@bangorschools.org
Talk about a flat out bribe! What ever happened to that innate sense
of wanting to learn for the sake of learning - especially in the
elementary schools? I know from experience that high school students
don't always respond just because - a lot of them may have lost that
inner drive by this time, or have various other reasons to not raise
their hand. However, bribing them with candy, of all things, is not
the way to do so. Occasionally I will leave candy on my desk for the
students to take if they wish, and I will pass it out for holidays
like Halloween and Valentine's Day, but I certainly do not advocate
giving students treats for doing what they should be doing in the
first place.
Rowley
Pretty much all children have a innate sense of wanting to learn -
problem is, it tends to be omnidirectional and school tends to what them
to focus on a more narrow band of learning.
Some people do try to direct kids interest using such tactics as using
rewards like candy. Problem is this ends up being just a short time fix.
> I know from experience that high school students
> don't always respond just because - a lot of them may have lost that
> inner drive by this time, or have various other reasons to not raise
> their hand.
There was a really good program on PBS here a few nights ago.
"Inside the Teenage Brain: What's going on in there? How science may
help explain the mysteries of the teen years"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/
I think if you have high-speed internet, you can watch the whole program
online.
The same night they aired another good program,
"Growing Up Online"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/kidsonline/
> However, bribing them with candy, of all things, is not
> the way to do so. Occasionally I will leave candy on my desk for the
> students to take if they wish, and I will pass it out for holidays
> like Halloween and Valentine's Day, but I certainly do not advocate
> giving students treats for doing what they should be doing in the
> first place.
I kept a jar of Jolly Ranchers behind my desk - mainly because we
(teachers) were not allowed to provide students with cough drops - so I
kept the Jolly Ranchers and offered one of them to students with a cough
or sore throat. Some times I did get the spirit of a holiday, Halloween
usually and bring in a bag or two of candy for my classes.
Sort of related, one year I brought in a bag of oranges to eat myself.
These were the really large variety - about the size of a softball. One
of the students in my drafting class saw them and asked if he could have
one - next thing I know they all (small class of about 16 students)
wanted one and for the next fifteen minutes or so everybody sat there
peeling and eating a orange and they seem to really enjoy it. Most
mentioned that it was the first onage that they had eaten in years.
A few weeks later I brough in another sack of oranges, but no one seemed
to want one - seemed to have been a one time thing.
Martin
>
teachrmama
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067d850-ff68-41d5...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>A recent article in NEA Today focused on the slow conversion to
> healthy foods in the cafeteria and the progress they are making in
> making lunch menus more healthy.
>
> Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
> treats. When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
> draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...the kids said the candy
> was for rewards or incentive.
I don't know where you subbed, but there is a 'no food as rewards' policy in
the school where I teach, and in every school in this area..
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:b067d850-ff68-41d5...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
In the NEA article, it says the percentage of such a ban has risen
from 11 percent in 2000 to 26 percent in 2006, but it still happens
way too much. BTW, I subbed in Hillsborough County, Fl (9th largest
district in the country).
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
teachrmama
From my perspective, the less food is used as a reward, the less it will be
seen as desirable in and of itself. Food should be used to meet bodily
needs for fuel--not as a pleasure unto itself. By giving food as a reward,
we are imbuing it with a meaning that it should not have in the minds of
children.
Rowley
Wasn't there something in the news lately - about McDonalds giving
coupons for Happy Meals to elementary students with good grades? (Might
even been somewhere in Florida if I remember correctly) I think people
complained more about it being McDonalds than about someone giving the
kids a reward.
Martin
>
>
MJMC
"teachrmama" <teach...@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:fo4ve...@news4.newsguy.com...
Same here.
Of course, it doesn't stop parents from bringing pizza, Wendy's, and other
fast food lunches to their kids at lunchtime.
And if there's candy in my desk, it's 'cause I need a chocolate fix now and
then. Not for the kids.
Melissa
teachrmama
"MJMC" <mmco...@alumnidotutexas.net> wrote in message
news:%7rpj.54167$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
<chuckle> I can definitely relate to that!!
stevericks
schools. From some of the responses I have been skimming, it may be one of
the most progressive policies in the nation.
Drink machines (soda) are banned and replaced with fruit juices. It is so
strict that in elementary school, no longer can you provide cake or cupcakes
or such when your child has a birthday---at least the "regularly cooked "
ones.
There is an "approved recipe" that one can use to make cupcakes -uses
applesauce instead of sugar etc., that is allowed. My wife tried it several
years ago with our son's class. Tastes like dirt, according to the kids. Of
course I am married to a Registered Dietitian with MS degree-so I won't win
the "let the kid a an M&M" argument-even here. :)
Steve
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067d850-ff68-41d5...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
stevericks
chemistry course from a leader in the field a while back, the fact that
sugar causes hyperactivity was documented by research to be a myth. I did a
quick websearch on it, just to see if anything new had been found.
There is article at
summing up the research findings
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52516
"Experts say some of the most convincing evidence against the link between
food and behavior is on busting the sugar-hyperactivity myth. "
"There is elegant research demonstrating that sugar is not at all related to
inattention or hyperactivity," says Mina Dulcan, MD, head of child and
adolescent psychiatry at Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right or wrong. After
3 degrees in science, I at least felt somewhat required to see what the
real (scientific) research says. From what I can tell, it says there is not
a link. If it were a very strong effect, there should not be trouble easily
documenting it with valid research methods after all of these years.
Steve
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067d850-ff68-41d5...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Larry Hewitt
"stevericks" <steve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:jHspj.58887$k27....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
> Believe it or not, Alabama has enacted a rule regarding healthy eating in
> schools. From some of the responses I have been skimming, it may be one
> of the most progressive policies in the nation.
>
> Drink machines (soda) are banned and replaced with fruit juices.
This may not be as agood of an idea as people think.
My district enacted a similar regulation until they found that the cheaper
fruit drinks put int he machines actually had more sugar in them than soda.
The high quality, low sugar drinks were expensive and did not sell well.
Which ead to a dicussion --- why do we need vending machines in middle
school anyway?
The answer --- A FUND RAISER. Money spent in the cafeteria belonged to
the school district or state., Vending machine income belonged to the
school.
So the debate still rages --- our childrens' health or a tax increase.
Larry
Larry Hewitt
>I did a quick web search on this as when I was taking a graduate food
>chemistry course from a leader in the field a while back, the fact that
>sugar causes hyperactivity was documented by research to be a myth. I did
>a quick websearch on it, just to see if anything new had been found.
>
> There is article at
> summing up the research findings
> http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52516
> "Experts say some of the most convincing evidence against the link between
> food and behavior is on busting the sugar-hyperactivity myth. "
>
>
> "There is elegant research demonstrating that sugar is not at all related
> to inattention or hyperactivity," says Mina Dulcan, MD, head of child and
> adolescent psychiatry at Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago.
>
> Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right or wrong.
> After 3 degrees in science, I at least felt somewhat required to see what
> the real (scientific) research says. From what I can tell, it says there
> is not a link. If it were a very strong effect, there should not be
> trouble easily documenting it with valid research methods after all of
> these years.
>
I could care less about "hyperactive" kids in the classroom. My concern is
obesity and diabetes --- the incidece of both is soaring.
Larry
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> I did a quick web search on this as when I was taking a graduate food
> chemistry course from a leader in the field a while back, the fact that
> sugar causes hyperactivity was documented by research to be a myth. I did a
> quick websearch on it, just to see if anything new had been found.
>
> There is article at
> "Experts say some of the most convincing evidence against the link between
> food and behavior is on busting the sugar-hyperactivity myth. "
>
> "There is elegant research demonstrating that sugar is not at all related to
> inattention or hyperactivity," says Mina Dulcan, MD, head of child and
> adolescent psychiatry at Children's Memorial Hospital in Chicago.
>
> Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, right or wrong. After
> 3 degrees in science, I at least felt somewhat required to see what the
> real (scientific) research says. From what I can tell, it says there is not
> a link. If it were a very strong effect, there should not be trouble easily
> documenting it with valid research methods after all of these years.
>
> Steve
>
>
> >A recent article in NEA Today focused on the slow conversion to
> > healthy foods in the cafeteria and the progress they are making in
> > making lunch menus more healthy.
>
> > Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
> > treats. When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
> > draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...the kids said the candy
> > was for rewards or incentive. How stupid is this? Candy's sugar rush
> > will have a crashing effect on the student's performance, not to
> > mention that it sends the wrong message to the kids about fitness and
> > junk food. How are we supposed to be convincing kids to eat healthy,
> > when we are modeling and motivating by way of sugar?
>
> > While sugar has a negative effect on all students, it is an especially
> > bad idea for ADHD kids. For these kids, the sugar basically undoes a
> > lot of the medication and self-control that they have and sets them
> > off. Indeed, how many kids sent out of the room for disobedience and
> > distraction have just been loaded up with sugar and fat due to
> > classroom sweets?
>
> > Kenneth Clifton
> > christiansuperhero.com
I'm just speaking from experience. My daughter has ADHD rather
dramatically. When she gets sugar...boom....it's like the squirrel in
Over the Hedge, even after her medication.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
toto
<industry...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
>> treats.
>
>Wonder where that is happening, the campus I was at had a policy about
>no candy in the classroom.
It certainly happens in Louisiana near New Orleans. I was appalled
when I subbed and the treasure boxes kids were allowed to pick
something from for everything included candy. Some teachers had m&m
bowls or lollipop bowls on their desks. Kids were allowed to come and
get candy when they finished an assignment and turned it in. This was
elementary school and middle school. It was not happening in the high
schools, but in the high schools kids bought junk food from the
machines and *some* teachers allowed them to eat in class. Some
special classes were the worst. There was a computer classroom where
the teacher sponsored some activity or other and had the junk food
available for sale at the beginning and end of class.
>Course then again, it seemed every other week
>that some group or another was selling candy as a fund-raiser and if it
>wasn't a school club or organization, it was some of the kids selling
>candy for their church group. I didn't mind the candy as much as I did
>picking up the wrappers.
>
In the elementary schools in Louisiana, the PTA sold candy and junk
every Friday and kids who had good behavior were allowed to go buy the
stuff at the last 15 or 20 minutes of the day.
>Heck, just yesterday one of the guys I work with brought in twenty cases
>of his daughter's Girl Scout cookies to sale. Thought I wasn't going to
>have to deal with such things now that I ain't teaching.....
Girl Scout Cookies are all over in many workplaces especially when you
have younger daughters. We always sold at our jobs when my dd was in
scouts.
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
SumBuny
"Rowley" <industry...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:BRmpj.10129$EZ3...@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> I kept a jar of Jolly Ranchers behind my desk - mainly because we
> (teachers) were not allowed to provide students with cough drops - so I
> kept the Jolly Ranchers and offered one of them to students with a cough
> or sore throat.
My mentor does the same thing...works wonders...and more palatable the
horehound candy that some of us grew up with <g>
--
Buny
--Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal." ~ Albert Camus
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b067d850-ff68-41d5...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
How much do you know about ADHD? Facts, not anecdotes...
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:b067d850-ff68-41d5...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >A recent article in NEA Today focused on the slow conversion to
> > healthy foods in the cafeteria and the progress they are making in
> > making lunch menus more healthy.
>
> > Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
> > treats. When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
> > draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...the kids said the candy
> > was for rewards or incentive. How stupid is this? Candy's sugar rush
> > will have a crashing effect on the student's performance, not to
> > mention that it sends the wrong message to the kids about fitness and
> > junk food. How are we supposed to be convincing kids to eat healthy,
> > when we are modeling and motivating by way of sugar?
>
> > While sugar has a negative effect on all students, it is an especially
> > bad idea for ADHD kids. For these kids, the sugar basically undoes a
> > lot of the medication and self-control that they have and sets them
> > off. Indeed, how many kids sent out of the room for disobedience and
> > distraction have just been loaded up with sugar and fat due to
> > classroom sweets?
>
> How much do you know about ADHD? Facts, not anecdotes...
I'm just going off experience raising an ADHD daughter and seeing it
happen first-hand. Sugar always sets her off, no matter the
medication she is taking.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Rowley
I attended 6th grade at a school in Lake Charles La. (around 1972) - it
was a lot different experience from where I was going to school in
Texas. The lunches were a lot different I remember, every meal seemed to
come with a huge sugar glazed sweet roll - which were great! But I
imagine the calorie count for something like that was terrible.
>
>
>>Heck, just yesterday one of the guys I work with brought in twenty cases
>>of his daughter's Girl Scout cookies to sale. Thought I wasn't going to
>>have to deal with such things now that I ain't teaching.....
>
>
> Girl Scout Cookies are all over in many workplaces especially when you
> have younger daughters. We always sold at our jobs when my dd was in
> scouts.
It's not just the girls either, one of the bosses here was selling stuff
for the boy scouts right before christmas.
Martin
>
>
Rowley
the kids, which I think kept the jar from being raided when I had a sub.
Martin
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b0398c1b-9ce2-4e6a...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Oh, anecdotal experience....how much of this is from the sugar, and how much
of this is from the change in routine, sturcture, environment? Have you
done blind challenges to ensure it is not a placebo effect?
How much sudying have you done to prove it is the sugar and not something
else?
How much research have you done in this?
I have more than a little experience with ADHD--both my sons have it, as
well as I...and sugar is not the main issue. While diet might play a small
amount of incluence in the brain chemistry, a greater influence is seen in
the environmental and behavioral modifiations--*if* they are consistantly
applied....
Have *those* areas been researched in the case of your daughter as well to
rule out that they have not been compromised in your sugar studies?
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8f3cc051-7f4c-4810...@k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
You might look at the other post I made...there are many other variables
that need to be considered before you can absolutely sure it was the sugar
consumed....FWIW, I also have first hand experience in ADHD--not just second
hand. Not only do both of my sons have ADHD, but I also have it as well.
There are ways to test your theory...and it *might* be that sugar is what
causes the symptoms in yoru daughter...if so, she might have a sugar
sensitivity, not ADHD itself...
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:b0398c1b-9ce2-4e6a...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I believe I am right on the ADHD thing, but it is irrelevant to the
thread, unless you are suggesting it is a good idea to give sugar as a
reward to ADHD kids or that sugar doesn't have a negative reaction to
any students (since ADHD kids would be a part of all kids). Are you?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fdac536f-e93b-43a3...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
I am not commenting on that aspect of the thread...I am commenting on your
asserting that sugar has a egative effect on all students "especially...for
ADHD kids".... I would have loved to have seen some sources cited for that,
that was all <g>
I wonder--do you propose to eliminate sugar from school altogether? How
would you propose to do that?
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:fdac536f-e93b-43a3...@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
The thread is about using candy as a reward. The line you refer to
was part of a paragraph that says sugar is bad for ALL students. In
that context I will respond and no other. If you are saying sugar is
NOT bad for students, that would be on topic. Is that your position?
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Werner
....
> So the debate still rages --- our childrens' health or a tax increase.
>
> Larry
So how much does your school get on vending machines? What is the
school budget? How many tax increases have been avoided because of the
machines?
SumBuny
"Wide Eyed in Wonder" <kan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:671a9da3-c1f9-43f8...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
I notice you refuse to answer the question....
I will answer yours, though...my current position on behavior modification
is to use a form of applied behavior analysis. It works quite well on
developmental disabilities, as well as those with ADHD...you might consider
researching it a bit. It is an environmental- and behavioral-modification
system that does not involve medication or diet.
Does that answer *your* question?
Now, how about answering *mine*....
Or are you afraid to do so?
sf
<writi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
>treats. When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
>draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...the kids said the candy
>was for rewards or incentive. How stupid is this? Candy's sugar rush
>will have a crashing effect on the student's performance, not to
>mention that it sends the wrong message to the kids about fitness and
>junk food. How are we supposed to be convincing kids to eat healthy,
>when we are modeling and motivating by way of sugar?
Sorry, can't comment. I don't know anyone who uses candy as a reward.
Eating healthy is a big focus in my district and students are getting
the message.
--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first
Wide Eyed in Wonder
> > The thread is about using candy as a reward. The line you refer to
> > was part of a paragraph that says sugar is bad for ALL students. In
> > that context I will respond and no other. If you are saying sugar is
> > NOT bad for students, that would be on topic. Is that your position?
>
> I notice you refuse to answer the question....
>
> I will answer yours, though...my current position on behavior modification
> is to use a form of applied behavior analysis. It works quite well on
> developmental disabilities, as well as those with ADHD...you might consider
> researching it a bit. It is an environmental- and behavioral-modification
> system that does not involve medication or diet.
>
> Does that answer *your* question?
There. I cut out all the distracting other text, so you can READ my
question, since you are apparently not doing it. It's about ALL
students and sugar. Go up, read the question, and answer it.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Bob LeChevalier
Your question makes no sense without interpretation that you so not
provide.
1. Sugar is good for all kids. Indeed sugar is vital for all kids.
It is the essential nutrient that provides food energy. Don't get
enough sugar and you die.
2. Too little sugar can lead to a loss of concentration, focus,
tiredness. Stimulants can make up for this for a short while, but the
body is basically running on empty.
3. Too much sugar is bad for all kids. It can lead to obesity. It can
kill diabetics. On the other hand a lot of sugar provides a lot of
quick energy, and can be essential to someone in a major athletic
competition. But at some point a lot of sugar becomes too much.
The problem is that how much is "not enough" and how much is "too
much" varies with the individual kid, his age, weight, and activity
level, any medical conditions, and probably a few factors that I am
not thinking of. Given that, the question "is sugar bad for kids" is
simply a silly question designed to provoke useless argument.
If the question is "is sugar appropriate for use in behavioral
modification programs", you can get a little better answer. But the
question has some ambiguity even there.
If you stopped trying to phrase your "argument" in terms of
oversimplified "gotcha" questions, that only invoke strawmen, you
might get an intelligent discussion. But then I doubt if you want an
intelligent discussion, since you invariably lose, even when no one is
trying to win.
lojbab
Cary Kittrell
Why, lookie there, SumBuny -- Ken actually DID answer your
question! I am most impressed. Your question was, and I
quote:
Now, how about answering *mine*....
and lo: Ken answered that with a resounding -- if implicit --
"NO!"
(and as an unexpected bonus your:
Or are you afraid to do so?
earned you a definite, if equally implicit "yes")
Those of us who have been reading Ken for years
ruefully realize that Ken feels that the best
defense is an offense. Not necessarily a
*good* offsense, mind you, inchoate will
serve.
Getting Ken to answer you questions is like pulling
teeth. From a turtle.
-- cary
stevericks
Steve
"Bob LeChevalier" <loj...@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:42nlq3tkcgs15kv76...@4ax.com...
stevericks
by the Pygmalion effect. I see this often. . .even with both my son and
dog's behavior. Could be...maybe not.
Steve
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
news:B20qj.20468$OC1....@newsfe20.lga...
Bob LeChevalier
>I wonder if the hyperactivity increase in Ken's daughter could be explained
>by the Pygmalion effect. I see this often. . .even with both my son and
>dog's behavior. Could be...maybe not.
I love it! Kenny will have to look it up, and then *think*, or he'll
never understand the comment.
lojbab
sumbuny
Still you refuse to answer my question....and you deleted that
question--self-defense perhaps?
I have snwered your question for you, and you have refused to anwer
mine--fear? Or is it that you cannot do so?
I will ask it one last time, and continued silence will only state
that you cannot answer it, and will strain your own credibility, and
show you for the troll you are...
""I am not commenting on that aspect of the thread...I am commenting
on your
asserting that sugar has a negative effect on all students
"especially...for
ADHD kids".... I would have loved to have seen some sources cited for
that,
that was all <g>
I wonder--do you propose to eliminate sugar from school altogether?
How
would you propose to do that? ""
You have refused time and time again to support your assertions with
citations--a *standard* required procedure from teachers,
IIRC...anecdotal comments are not usually acceptable in debates, since
they cannot be challenged...these tactics are trollish behavior at
best...
This is why I called you on your behavior, and if you cannot answer
them, then it is your own credibility, not mine, that suffers...
Buny
SumBuny
"stevericks" <steve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:4oNqj.93293$L%6.1...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
I would not be surprised at all with a self-fulling prophecy here...or a
case of seeing things through rose-colorsed glasses. People often see
things the way that they want to, through their own filters, through their
*own* expectations...if we expect a person to be a certain way, we only look
for those things, we see them through those filters, then that person *must*
be that way....
One of my favorite examples is the courtroom scene in the movie "A Time to
Kill." Set in the The lawyer is presenting this story to an all-white jury,
who is trying a a man for the rape rape of a little girl, that leads to her
father killing the white boys who did it...
http://imdb.com/title/tt0117913/quotes
""Jake Tyler Brigance: [in his summation, talking about Tonya Hailey] I want
to tell you a story. I'm going to ask you all to close your eyes while I
tell you the story. I want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to
yourselves. Go ahead. Close your eyes, please. This is a story about a
little girl walking home from the grocery store one sunny afternoon. I want
you to picture this little girl. Suddenly a truck races up. Two men jump out
and grab her. They drag her into a nearby field and ........And when they're
done, after they've killed her tiny womb, murdered any chance for her to
have children, to have life beyond her own, they decide to use her for
target practice. They start throwing full beer cans at her. They throw them
so hard that it tears the flesh all the way to her bones. Then they urinate
on her. Now comes the hanging. They have a rope. They tie a noose. Imagine
the noose going tight around her neck and with a sudden blinding jerk she's
pulled into the air and her feet and legs go kicking. They don't find the
ground. The hanging branch isn't strong enough. It snaps and she falls back
to the earth. So they pick her up, throw her in the back of the truck and
drive out to Foggy Creek Bridge. Pitch her over the edge. And she drops some
thirty feet down to the creek bottom below. Can you see her? .......... left
to die. Can you see her? I want you to picture that little girl. Now imagine
she's white. ""
(I have edited it down a bit)
One can almost feel the "mental whiplash" as the all-white jury has a total
change of paradigm....they were seeing this man through one set of filters,
and now they are looking at him through another...
Once the jury has realized that their *own* expectations have interfered
with the way that they perceived the other person, that the way that *they*
expected him to be affected his behavior (or the way that they *interpreted*
his behavior), they changed their own behavior in ways that affected his
behavior....and each others....I see it all the time when it comes to
exceptional education and einclusion. When a teacher who has negative
expectations about a student with exceptionalities has a student with that
exceptionality in his/her room, that student will not be able to achive as
much in that class, when compared with another teacher with the same student
who has positive expectations about a student with exceptionalities (or even
more neutral ones)...
Cary Kittrell
> On Feb 7, 12:33=A0am, Wide Eyed in Wonder <writing...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 6, 2:34 pm, "SumBuny" <Sumb...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > was part of a paragraph that says sugar is bad for ALL students. =A0In=
>
> > > > that context I will respond and no other. =A0If you are saying sugar i=
> s
> > > > NOT bad for students, that would be on topic. =A0Is that your position=
> ?
> >
> > > I notice you refuse to answer the question....
> >
> on
> > > is to use a form of applied behavior analysis. =A0It works quite well on=
>
> > > developmental disabilities, as well as those with ADHD...you might consi=
> der
> > > researching it a bit. =A0It is an environmental- and behavioral-modifica=
> tion
> > > system that does not involve medication or diet.
> >
> > > Does that answer *your* question?
> >
> > question, since you are apparently not doing it. =A0It's about ALL
> > students and sugar. =A0Go up, read the question, and answer it.
Well, as I have mentioned, "answers" aren't Ken's department.
He's the "questions" specialist -- belligerent, accusatory
questions, generally with a low "sequitur" quotient.
Hey, you want answers, go read Isaac Asimov. Or, maybe Bob
LeChevalier's point-by-point responses to Ken's posts.
You will actually find answers in those. If not
the ones Ken would give. If he ever gave any.
-- cary
Juan M
"All Generalizations are False."
Especially the generalization above.
"SumBuny" <Sum...@NOBODYHEREcox.net> wrote in message
news:fNnrj.26367$E01....@newsfe22.lga...
stevericks
"Juan M" <jdmollan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aZmdneHWcMP_ijLa...@centurytel.net...
SumBuny
"Cary Kittrell" <ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fol9tr$a5k$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
I have also noticed that--he has the ability of a sniper, not a
conversationalist--everything is "one way"...more of a "hit and run"
attack...
Rather seems trollish, don't ya think?
;-)
>
> Hey, you want answers, go read Isaac Asimov. Or, maybe Bob
> LeChevalier's point-by-point responses to Ken's posts.
> You will actually find answers in those. If not
> the ones Ken would give. If he ever gave any.
<nossing>
Bob has always been a better conversationalist--he and I have had some good
debates and have shared some great ideas over the years...as I have
mentioned here before, it does some, um, "interesting" what happens when one
shines the light on cockroaches....they seem to scatter...or start to seem
"scatterbrained" when it happens enough. I believe if enough people start
to do this, either this poster will step up to the plate and bolster the
credibility factor, or will admit that the credibility factor is nil...or,
*we* will have to decide whether or not to continue the care and feeding of
the trollish behavior...i.e., do we ourselves reinforce the behavior we
desire or not? ;-)
Cary Kittrell
OK, OK, I admit it: you cannot BUY entertainment like this.
-- cary
SumBuny
"Cary Kittrell" <ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:foq85p$6r2$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
<BEG> One must occasionally feed and play with one's pets...or the ASPCA
will take action
Wide Eyed in Wonder
It's still interesting that you don't seem to reply where Bob does,
know exactly what Bob has said, and share the same views about
everything...Bob/Cary/etc.
Let me quess. Bob, who hasn't been a part of this discussion for days
will suddenly become aware of my post and reply, here.
Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com
Cary Kittrell
Speaking of not replying, I note that you never responded to
my post showing how easy it was for you to find online both my
address and Bob's address, and how inconvenient it
it is for this addlepated conspiracy theory of yours that we
turn out to live some 2000 miles or so from one another.
-- cary
Bob LeChevalier
Why would he want to be repetitious?
>know exactly what Bob has said,
Don't you think perhaps this might be because he knows how to read?
>and share the same views about everything...Bob/Cary/etc.
Not hardly. He's an atheist, while I'm a Christian. He's admittedly
extremely liberal. I am a balanced budget conservative, tolerant of
others who are socially liberal but so old-fashioned Ozzie and Harriet
myself that my kids are surprised when something mildly risque comes
out of my mouth.
>Let me quess. Bob, who hasn't been a part of this discussion for days
>will suddenly become aware of my post and reply, here.
Well, you are certainly correct, there. On the other hand, my last
post on thus thread, on 2/7, was immediately in response to your last
post on this thread, on 2/7. In the meantime, cary seems to have been
having a pleasant conversation with SumBuny, to which I had nothing
useful to add, in part because much of what they said was nice things
about my postings.
lojbab
Cary Kittrell
So, is SumBuny a part of the Borg too, along with me and you and
FNC and Buckeye and anyone else I may have forgotten?
I wonder if this pathology has a sub-type all its own? I mean,
on the one hand, everyone is out to get Ken. On the other
hand, it's really just one person out to get Ken. Hypoparanoia?
Monoparanoia? Sheer silliness?
-- cary
SumBuny
"Cary Kittrell" <ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fostbc$g9h$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
<insert maniacal laughter here>
That was, um, "interesting"....
This one is consistant on one thing--he fears to answer a simple question,
and therefore has illustrated his lack of credibility.
>
> I wonder if this pathology has a sub-type all its own? I mean,
> on the one hand, everyone is out to get Ken. On the other
> hand, it's really just one person out to get Ken. Hypoparanoia?
> Monoparanoia?
Ooooohhhh....that is a good one....
>Sheer silliness?
Most likely this one
Cary Kittrell
And puzzling, no doubt. You haven't been around long enough,
but Conspiracy Ken periodically proclaims his suspicion that
Bob and I are actually the same person, and has in the
past also included posters FNC and Buckeye in the Hive Mind.
I think it's particularly odd that `writingken', as one of his
nyms has it, seemingly cannot distinguish between four
utterly different posting styles:
-- I write short replies, pick one point to harp on,
and always go for the arch and indirect putdown, if
one seems called for.
-- Bob takes Ken on line-by-line, picks each and
every nit, doesn't shrink from calling a spade
an imbecile, and often provides reams of
research to back up his contentions. This
approach results in enormous thundering posts.
Bob also is easily the most thorough researcher in
the froup -- a long-established fact which makes
Ken's frequent taunts that Bob doesn't do research
head-shakingly risible.
-- FNC is the queen of the opaque snark. Her
posts run to about five lines.
-- Buckeye posts in an instantly recognizable
format, and nearly always confines his discussion
to topics relevant to the separation of church
and state.
But Ken, whose secret superpower seems the ability
to move directly from point A to point X, even
when walls of solid logic block his path, will
have none of this. Unencumbered by the thought
process, as Click and Clack would put it.
To be fair, Ken has not included you in the vast
left-wing conspiracy yet, so you might want to
pick a period when none of the others happen
to be posting, and then blitz him.
Good luck, Jim. Um, I mean "SumBuny".
(...if that IS your REAL name...)
-- cary
SumBuny
"Cary Kittrell" <ca...@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fp01f6$sqj$1...@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
Actually, I have been...I have been posting here for several years, lurking
for a while. The reason why I have been "absent" for some time is that my
classes eat up more of the time that I have formerly spent here. I would
think that his conspiracy theory would probably include anyone who did not
agree with him, and those who had similar ideas--or those who agreed with
each other must "obviously" be the same person <g>
>
> I think it's particularly odd that `writingken', as one of his
> nyms has it, seemingly cannot distinguish between four
> utterly different posting styles:
<snort> Coming from someone who would be teaching writing, that is
frightening....
<G> Actually, it comes from a phrase when my husband and I were dating, a
few decades ago..."You're Nobunny 'til Somebunny loves you"...so, in a way,
it is my 'name'.....and if you happened to be in the right place and the
right time, you would know who I am....and if so, I would aks that you keep
that confidence online....
Cary Kittrell
Oh, I know who you really are, all right. You're me. And Bob.
And FNC and Buckeye. And...oops, did I type that out loud?
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
-- cary
Feminazi Cuntkins
(Cary Kittrell) wrote:
> -- FNC is the queen of the opaque snark.
Empress.
FNC, pro tem
lucids...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:19:50 +0000 (UTC), c...@afone.as.arizona.edu
>
> (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
> > -- FNC is the queen of the opaque snark.
>
> Empress.
>
> FNC, pro tem
See? See? SEE?
Sounds EXACTLY like Bob LeChevalier...right?
(besides, I didn't get it)
Lucy
Feminazi Cuntkins
wrote:
You weren't supposed to, you're a cat person.
FNC, head trip
Cheri Woodall
individual basis. I just sat through a trainging on reinforcers about a
month ago. In the training, the presenter kept saying that tangible
reinforcers (like candy) are the most meaningful to students. You should
use them on the most thinned schedule but that is what should be used. I
work with a population of students that many of whom cannot eat candy. We
tried to say for some students a social reinforcer was more meaningful. She
told us that in our situation, that may be the case but it is the exception
rather than the rule. I still go back to you have to look at what is the
most meaningful reward/reinforcer for a student and use that. Whether it is
candy (if allowed by the family), a sticker, praise...you need to go with
what works for everybody.
"Juan M" <jdmollan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aZmdneHWcMP_ijLa...@centurytel.net...
Phoo
> A recent article in NEA Today focused on the slow conversion to
> healthy foods in the cafeteria and the progress they are making in
> making lunch menus more healthy.
>
> Well, I think the bigger focus should be on candy in the classroom as
> treats. When I was a substitute in many schools, I found candy in the
> draws of almost every teacher I subbed for...
Could be the teacher's personal stash.
> the kids said the candy
> was for rewards or incentive.
Could be true, Or it could be that they just wanted the candy. I've
had kids tell subs all kinds of lies to gt into the sticker bag or the
prize box.
> How stupid is this? Candy's sugar rush
> will have a crashing effect on the student's performance,
That depends on the size/type of candy and the size/type of kid. I've
found that 50 pound ADHD kids can handle a Hershey kiss just fine.
> not to
> mention that it sends the wrong message to the kids about fitness and
> junk food.
Fitness experts and dieticians will say that an occasional treat won't
hurt you.
> How are we supposed to be convincing kids to eat healthy,
> when we are modeling and motivating by way of sugar?
It depends on how often they receive candy and under what
circumstances. I have no problem bribing a first grader with a
Hersey's kiss to bring back important paperwork from home at the
beginning of the year.
> While sugar has a negative effect on all students, it is an especially
> bad idea for ADHD kids. For these kids, the sugar basically undoes a
> lot of the medication and self-control that they have and sets them
> off. Indeed, how many kids sent out of the room for disobedience and
> distraction have just been loaded up with sugar and fat due to
> classroom sweets?
Most teachers don't load students up on sugar. Practically speaking,
you'd need a lot of candy to do that. Figure 20+ kids x multiple
pieces of candy per day = a closet full of candy, not a bag of Jolly
Ranchers in a desk drawer for occasional use.
Juan M
"Phoo" <phoo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:90e99eb2-0c46-41bd...@o77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Candy as a reinforcement worked just fine for this teacher for over 30 years
until this teacher discovered that the 30 pounds that he gained from the
reinforcement he gave himself in those years added to heart difficulties.
Oh well, I lost the thirty pounds after retirement!