school shootings

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and...@my-deja.com

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Jun 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/11/00
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It seems that most, perhaps all, of the school shootings prior to the
recent one in Florida involved a student who was taking a behavior-
modifying prescription drug (e.g., Ritalin), or was in a withdrawal
phase from taking such a drug.

I have not seen this issue addressed yet in connection with the recent
Florida shooting. Has anyone else seen whether prescription drug use
was confirmed or denied in connection with that shooting? Of course,
there is no obligation by the defendant or his family to discuss this,
unless the defense counsel feels it is helpful to the case.

Andy


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

and...@my-deja.com

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Jun 11, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/11/00
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In article <8hunrs$j30$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

and...@my-deja.com wrote:
> It seems that most, perhaps all, of the school shootings prior to the
> recent one in Florida involved a student who was taking a behavior-
> modifying prescription drug (e.g., Ritalin), or was in a withdrawal
> phase from taking such a drug.

Here's the growing list of prescription drug use by alleged school
shooters:

1. Oregon high school killer Kip Kinkel (Ritalin and Prozac).
2. Columbine killer Eric Harris was withdrawing from Luvox.
3. Georgia school alleged shooter T.J. Solomon (Ritalin).
4. Oklahoma middle school alleged shooter Seth Trickey was on two
drugs described to have psychotic effects (AP 6/11/00).

Mark Probert

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.100061...@compass.oregonvos.net>,
Joni J Rathbun <jrat...@orednet.org> writes:

>
>On 11 Jun 2000, Seveigny53 wrote:


>
>> In article <8hunrs$j30$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, and...@my-deja.com writes:
>>
>> >It seems that most, perhaps all, of the school shootings prior to the
>> >recent one in Florida involved a student who was taking a behavior-
>> >modifying prescription drug (e.g., Ritalin), or was in a withdrawal
>> >phase from taking such a drug.
>> >

>> >I have not seen this issue addressed yet in connection with the recent
>> >Florida shooting. Has anyone else seen whether prescription drug use
>> >was confirmed or denied in connection with that shooting? Of course,
>> >there is no obligation by the defendant or his family to discuss this,
>> >unless the defense counsel feels it is helpful to the case.
>> >
>>

>> If you have not seen this issue addressed in connection with the school
>> shootings, how do you know that most, if not all involved a student who was
>> taking a behavior modifiying prescription drug or was in a withdrawl phase
>from
>> taking such a drug?
>> Cate
>
>I think what he meant is that he hasn't seen the issue addressed for
>the Florida shooting. IOW -- Was the student in Florida using any kind
>of drugs or in withdrawal?

It is a red herring issue, Andy's favorite food. Neither of the Colubine
shooters were on meds, and in the other circumstance, only one, I believe, was
on meds.

Even if they were all on meds, Andy still has todraw a logical andprovable
cause and effect between taking medications and shooting.

He cannot do that.


Mark Probert

A vote for Pat Buchanan is a vote for America's First Fuhrer!

tipularia

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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In article <8i0u5j$un5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

and...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8hunrs$j30$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> and...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > It seems that most, perhaps all, of the school shootings prior to the
> > recent one in Florida involved a student who was taking a behavior-
> > modifying prescription drug (e.g., Ritalin), or was in a withdrawal
> > phase from taking such a drug.
>
> Here's the growing list of prescription drug use by alleged school
> shooters:
>
> 1. Oregon high school killer Kip Kinkel (Ritalin and Prozac).
> 2. Columbine killer Eric Harris was withdrawing from Luvox.
> 3. Georgia school alleged shooter T.J. Solomon (Ritalin).
> 4. Oklahoma middle school alleged shooter Seth Trickey was on two
> drugs described to have psychotic effects (AP 6/11/00).
>
> Andy
>

What is your point? It is not surprising that students doing school shootings
have a history of mental disorders requiring medication. How many were not
taking their prescribed drug?

Mark Probert

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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In article <8i0u5j$un5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, and...@my-deja.com writes:

>In article <8hunrs$j30$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> and...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> It seems that most, perhaps all, of the school shootings prior to the
>> recent one in Florida involved a student who was taking a behavior-
>> modifying prescription drug (e.g., Ritalin), or was in a withdrawal
>> phase from taking such a drug.

Here is Andy talking to himself...

>Here's the growing list of prescription drug use by alleged school
>shooters:
>
>1. Oregon high school killer Kip Kinkel (Ritalin and Prozac).

Ritalin is successfully used to ttreat kids with ADD and behavioral disorder,
and does not incraease, but actually lowers behavioral problems. Want to see
the cites, Andy? Oh, that's right, facts confuse you. Sorry.

>2. Columbine killer Eric Harris was withdrawing from Luvox.

That is an incorrect statement. Harris had stopped taking Luvox over one month
prior to the shooting. According to www.metalhealth.com monograph on Luvox
(Fluvoxamine):

Metabolism and Elimination:
Fluvoxamine undergoes extensive hepatic transformation, mainly via oxidative
demethylation, to at least 9 metabolites, which are excreted by the kidney.
Ninety-four percent of an oral radioactive dose is recovered in the urine
within 48 hours. The 2 major metabolites showed negligible pharmacological
activity. In vitro binding of fluvoxamine to human plasma proteins is about 77%
at drug concentrations up to 4000 ng/mL.

IOW, 94% gone in two days. How much is left after a month?

>3. Georgia school alleged shooter T.J. Solomon (Ritalin).

See above.

>4. Oklahoma middle school alleged shooter Seth Trickey was on two
>drugs described to have psychotic effects (AP 6/11/00).

He was on Inderal, for migraines, and Kenalog, a steroid. Inderal is not known
to create a psychotic state. However, Kenalog, used to treat poison ivy, does
have a strong history of causing one. Next time, let him scratch!

Mark Probert

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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In article <20000611185153...@ng-fm1.aol.com>, mabr...@aol.com
(Mary Ann) writes:

>
>>In article <147542a4...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com>, Mark Probert
>><mtreborp...@aol.com.invalid> writes:
>>
>>>Cate, let me introduce Andrew Schlafley, the offspring of
>>>Phyllis of the Eagle Forum. Visit the Eagle Forum website to
>>>learn more.
>>>
>>>Andy is an old "friend", who, readily demonstrates his inability
>>>to draw a logical conclusion from stated facts. He, like others
>>>of his ilk, make bald faced statements, and never backs them up.
>>>
>>>Recently, he said the MPH pill causes people to abuse it. Yes
>>>the pill itself does that. Just by sitting there.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Mark,
>> Thank you very much for the background on the poster. I hadn't
>encountered
>>him before. Just lucky I guess.
>> Cate
>
>Cool. I still get Eagle Forum mailings from when I went to their local
>conferences in my radical feminist days in the early '80's. Always good for
>a
>laugh.

But, do you wash out your mailbox after getting that? EF is certainly the
antithesis of a radical feminist. Their agenda is 'barefoot and pregnant.'

Fre...@liberty.com

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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On 10 Jun 2000 21:59:52 EDT, "Magi D. Shepley"
<ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> posted:

>All of them attended church and came from Christian families too.

Imparting by 'osmosis' isn't very effective in school, and even it's
even worse in church.

Mary Ann

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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>>> Thank you very much for the background on the poster. I hadn't
>>encountered
>>>him before. Just lucky I guess.
>>> Cate
>>
>>Cool. I still get Eagle Forum mailings from when I went to their local
>>conferences in my radical feminist days in the early '80's. Always good for
>>a
>>laugh.
>
>But, do you wash out your mailbox after getting that? EF is certainly the
>antithesis of a radical feminist. Their agenda is 'barefoot and pregnant.'
>
>
>
>Mark Probert
>
>A vote for Pat Buchanan is a vote for America's First Fuhrer!

And I wear rubber gloves and a sterile mask.

Mary Ann

Mary Ann

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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>From tipularia:

>What is your point? It is not surprising that students doing school shootings
>have a history of mental disorders requiring medication. How many were not
>taking their prescribed drug?
>


Don't confuse him with cause and effect, it ruins his point and the two
hamsters in the hamster wheel of his mind start trying to go in opposite
directions.


Mary Ann

pian...@radix.net

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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On 10 Jun 2000 21:59:52 EDT, "Magi D. Shepley"
<ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> wrote:

>All of them attended church and came from Christian families too.

What do you mean "Christian Families"?
You are saying that all in the family accepted Christ as their
personal savior?
That would be my definition of a Christian family.

pian...@radix.net

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:12:15 -0500 (CDT), kgre...@webtv.net (Kathy
Green) wrote:

>That would be good advice to recall, regarding these school shootings.
>Blame them on the evil lurking in the shooters' hearts, not on
>Christians. A true Christian would not have shot up his school, and a
>true Christian family would not have raised him to do so. Such a person
>may call himself a Christian, but he's not. Not really.
>
>
>
>
>Yours truly,
>Kathy Green
Nicely said Kathy. The liberal, immoral left-wing hollywood types are
asking for one heck of a backlash if they keep knocking Christians.
As I see it, we can certainly defend ourselves and don't have to roll
over and play dead.


Magi D. Shepley

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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And a true Christian is not what Pianoman is with his hate-filled diatribes.

Magi

Kathy Green wrote:

> Magi Shepley wrote:
>
> >>All of them attended church and came from Christian families too.
>

> "Pianoman" wrote:
>
> >What do you mean "Christian Families"?
> You are saying that all in the family accepted Christ as their personal
> savior?
> That would be my definition of a Christian family.
>

> Yes, it is; you phrase it well. And a true Christian does NOT go around
> gunning down innocent people! Even if Shepley's statement is true in
> all those cases (in the case of the six-year-old boy, it's not), it's
> quite clear that those boys did not become Christians themselves. Think
> of the torment their families have had to go through, trying to raise
> their sons right, only to have them go so terribly wrong the way they
> did!
>
> As I write this, I'm reminded of a statement made by the Ghost of
> Christmas Present in Charles Dickens' novel, A CHRISTMAS CAROL. I should
> like to quote it here, as I really think it is applicable to the subject
> at hand.
> ______________________________________
> "Is there a peculiar flavor in what you sprinkle from your torch?" asked
> Scrooge.
>
> "There is. My own."
>
> "Would it apply to any kind of dinner on this day?" asked Scrooge.
>
> "To any kindly given. To a poor one most."
>
> "Why to a poor one most?""
>
> "Because it needs it most."
>
> "Spirit," said Scrooge, after a moment's hesitation, "I wonder you, of
> all the beings in the many worlds about us, should desire to cramp these
> people's opportunities and innocent enjoyment."
>
> "I!" cried the Spirit.
>
> "You would deprive them of their means of dining every seventh day,
> often the only day on which they can dine at all," said Scrooge,
> "wouldn't you?"
>
> "I!" cried the Spirit.
>
> "You seek to close these places on the Seventh Day," said Scrooge. "And
> it comes to the same thing."
>
> "I seek!" exclaimed the Spirit.
>
> "Forgive me if I am wrong. It has been done in your name, or at least
> in that of your family," said Scrooge.
>
> "There are some upon this earth of yours," returned the Spirit, "who
> claim to know us, and
> who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill will, hatred, envy, bigotry,
> and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us, and all our kith
> and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their
> doings on themselves, not us."
> _____________________________________


>
> That would be good advice to recall, regarding these school shootings.
> Blame them on the evil lurking in the shooters' hearts, not on
> Christians. A true Christian would not have shot up his school, and a
> true Christian family would not have raised him to do so. Such a person
> may call himself a Christian, but he's not. Not really.
>
> Yours truly,
> Kathy Green
>

> http://community-1.webtv.net/kgreen20/KATHYSPAGE

Remove the Space Cat to Email

pian...@radix.net

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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On 12 Jun 2000 21:13:19 EDT, "Magi D. Shepley"
<ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> wrote:

>And a true Christian is not what Pianoman is with his hate-filled diatribes.
>
>Magi

What "hate" are you speaking of? I haven't even used the term...
Oh, you mean my disdain for immoral and atheistic behavior?
My utter dislike for any liberal in hollywood and their
"self-righteous", sex and curse filled television shows?
This liberal term of "hate" is so darned ridiculous...Just because I
dennounce the liberal agenda, doesn't mean that I "hate" anyone...

Quit the parroting of the standard liberal buzzword crap and explain
to me the hate-filled diatribes...If you don't dennounce the liberal
crap out of hollywood ( I bet you do), then I'm suprised that you can
even call yourself a teacher of children.

Joni J Rathbun

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 pian...@radix.net wrote:


> What "hate" are you speaking of? I haven't even used the term...
> Oh, you mean my disdain for immoral and atheistic behavior?
> My utter dislike for any liberal in hollywood and their
> "self-righteous", sex and curse filled television shows?

So turn the darned thing off. That's what this liberal family
does (tho I admit I have tuned into that religious channel
a couple of times to see that woman with the hair...and
the crocodile tears).


Joni J Rathbun

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 and...@my-deja.com wrote:

> In article <8i3d8t$ia8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,


> tipularia <tipu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > In article <8i0u5j$un5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

> > and...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > In article <8hunrs$j30$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > > and...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > > It seems that most, perhaps all, of the school shootings prior to
> the
> > > > recent one in Florida involved a student who was taking a
> behavior-
> > > > modifying prescription drug (e.g., Ritalin), or was in a
> withdrawal
> > > > phase from taking such a drug.
> > >

> > > Here's the growing list of prescription drug use by alleged school
> > > shooters:
> > >
> > > 1. Oregon high school killer Kip Kinkel (Ritalin and Prozac).

> > > 2. Columbine killer Eric Harris was withdrawing from Luvox.

> > > 3. Georgia school alleged shooter T.J. Solomon (Ritalin).

> > > 4. Oklahoma middle school alleged shooter Seth Trickey was on two
> > > drugs described to have psychotic effects (AP 6/11/00).
> > >

> > > Andy


> > >
> >
> > What is your point? It is not surprising that students doing school
> shootings
> > have a history of mental disorders requiring medication. How many
> were not
> > taking their prescribed drug?
>

> The point, obviously, is that mistreatment of kids with these drugs is
> a possible cause of the school shootings.
>

In that case, being raised in a home where Christianity is practiced
could be a possible cause too.

> How many instances of the above do you think would be necessary in
> order to draw this conclusion?

Ever hear the one about the preacher's daughter?


Magi D. Shepley

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Jun 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/12/00
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That is the best solution of all, Joni. Or put on the non-cursing and
non-sex filled TV shows. I'm personally listening to 'I Love Lucy'
right now.
Before that I was listening to Divas 1999 and reading Robert Heinlein
stories.

Magi

Joni J Rathbun wrote:

Remove the Space Cat to Email

and...@my-deja.com

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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How many instances of the above do you think would be necessary in


order to draw this conclusion?

Andy

Mark Probert

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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In article <8i436a$1i0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

Hey, Andy, demonstrate, by verifiable sources that these students were
mistreated. Merely stating that they took medication is not proof of
mistreatment.

tipularia

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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If every student who takes one of these drugs initiates a school shooting,
then Andy, I would say you would have something. Hmmm... I wonder how many of
the kids doing shootings drink water.

>

> Andy

Kleyle

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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Is that like a personal maid or a personal valet?

<<You are saying that all in the family accepted Christ as their
personal savior?>>

I mean how can the christ character be a personal savior for all in the family?
Can't he just do a jumbo load, and save the whole gang?
As ever,

Homeschool if you can, and to Heck with the rest of them.

Mary Ann

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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>From: pian...@radix.net

>The liberal, immoral left-wing hollywood types are
>asking for one heck of a backlash if they keep knocking Christians.
>As I see it, we can certainly defend ourselves and don't have to roll
>over and play dead.
>

I certainly don't want you to do that, I just wish you could see that
Christians, ergo you, are not the center of the universe.


Mary Ann

pian...@radix.net

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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On 12 Jun 2000 23:19:04 EDT, "Magi D. Shepley"
<ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> wrote:

>That is the best solution of all, Joni. Or put on the non-cursing and
>non-sex filled TV shows. I'm personally listening to 'I Love Lucy'
>right now.
>Before that I was listening to Divas 1999 and reading Robert Heinlein
>stories.

I use to watch that show until I found out that she filed with the
communist party in the early sixties.


Joni J Rathbun

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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I'm not surprised ---> You have your facts wrong yet were
willing to make a judgement and decision without the facts.

(Ball joined the communist party in the early 30s, not the
sixties, and did so at the "request" of her domineering
grandfather. After the fact, she never had anything to do
with the party in any way and I do believe the FBI eventually
came to the same conclusion).


Fre...@liberty.com

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:12:15 -0500 (CDT), kgre...@webtv.net (Kathy
Green) posted:

>"There are some upon this earth of yours," returned the Spirit, "who
>claim to know us, and
>who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill will, hatred, envy, bigotry,
>and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us, and all our kith
>and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their
>doings on themselves, not us."
>_____________________________________
>
>That would be good advice to recall, regarding these school shootings.
>Blame them on the evil lurking in the shooters' hearts, not on
>Christians. A true Christian would not have shot up his school, and a
>true Christian family would not have raised him to do so. Such a person
>may call himself a Christian, but he's not. Not really.

HEAR, HEAR!!!

JT

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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pian...@radix.net wrote:
>
> Nicely said Kathy. The liberal, immoral left-wing hollywood types are

> asking for one heck of a backlash if they keep knocking Christians.
> As I see it, we can certainly defend ourselves and don't have to roll
> over and play dead.

You think you don't? Certainly, rolling over and playing dead is
exactly what you'll be forced to do, providing you don't get your head
out of the sand and accept that this nation is built of 250 million
individuals, who may not believe what you believe. Open your mind to
the infinite possibilities of religion and worship, or get left in the
dust trying to convince everyone else You've Got The Right One Baby,
Uh-Huh.

-- Jack Tarkaan -- mailto:tar...@bigfoot.com
-- Return address intentionally broken. Remove NOSPAM to reply.

Magi D. Shepley

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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Did you notice that any religion other than the one that Pianoman believes
in is "liberal" whether the person is "liberal" or not?

Magi

JT wrote:

Remove the Space Cat to Email

Magi D. Shepley

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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I didn't write that Lucille Ball was a member of the communist party.

Magi

Joni J Rathbun wrote:

Remove the Space Cat to Email

pian...@radix.net

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:57:27 -0700, Joni J Rathbun
<jrat...@orednet.org> wrote:

>I'm not surprised ---> You have your facts wrong yet were
>willing to make a judgement and decision without the facts.
>
>(Ball joined the communist party in the early 30s, not the
>sixties, and did so at the "request" of her domineering
>grandfather. After the fact, she never had anything to do
>with the party in any way and I do believe the FBI eventually
>came to the same conclusion).
>
>

Yes, I was wrong. Thank you for pointing the date out. She registered
in 1936 as a communist to vote for the communist party.


ClaySkye

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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>From: "Magi D. Shepley"

>Did you notice that any religion other than the one that Pianoman believes
>in is "liberal" whether the person is "liberal" or not?
>
>Magi
>

It's a common practice. Just like a cult is any religion that is not your own.
Just like everyone who disagrees with you is close-minded. Just like the
people who do agree with you but do things you disagree with are not "truely"
what they say they are. The "No true Scottsman" argument is very popular.


ClayeSkye
#4 (Head of EAC Department of Education/Reeducation)
I still believe that I cannot be saved-Smashing Pumpkins
"I can't stand here and argue with your biblical rhetoric."-Agent Mulder,
Miracle Man

Kleyle

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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>Yes, I was wrong. Thank you for pointing the date out. She registered
>in 1936 as a communist to vote for the communist party.
>

But, rather than checking this or any other fact, you spread your manure and
treat it like gospel.

Your sentence says it all. She registered to vote! That's unAmerican according
your fantasy.

Let's have a free exchance of ideas, not your insults. If your so-called PC
conservatism is the better method, let it win in the court of public debate.
Let's have no more of your slanderous backhanded careless attacks.

What other careless attacks have you made? What other unbased tales have your
told?

Reminds me of old Bob Novak who, when he heard that Rudy was dropping out,
said, on National TV, "Did you ever notice that bad things happen to people who
oppose the Clintons?" as if Mrs. Clinton had anything to do with Rudy's cancer
and his playing around in spite of his marriage vows.

But, let's face it, the right wing X-tians do a pretty good job of scumming
themselves. Did Hillary force the Newt to abandon his wife and kids for a dame?
Did Hillary force Henry Hyde to play around on the side? Did Hillary have
anything to do with Livingstone? No. But it sounds good to the Laura Limbaugh
crowd.

Thanks for the wonderful example of your unAmericanism.

Kleyle

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Jun 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/13/00
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In article <3946080d...@news1.radix.net>, pian...@radix.net writes:

>I use to watch that show until I found out that she filed with the
>communist party in the early sixties.
>

Is nothing sacred? How far must you sink.

If your stroy is true, what amazing courage!

The rats such as yourself nipping at her heels, but she stands up like an
American and chooses the path of courage rather than packing as is common with
your ilk.

I salute the redhead in this story.

Samuel Lubell

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Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
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NOTE: Remove NOT in my address to send.
kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:

>In article <3946080d...@news1.radix.net>, pian...@radix.net writes:
>
>>I use to watch that show until I found out that she filed with the
>>communist party in the early sixties.
>>
>
>Is nothing sacred? How far must you sink.
>
>If your stroy is true, what amazing courage!
>
>The rats such as yourself nipping at her heels, but she stands up like an
>American and chooses the path of courage rather than packing as is common with
>your ilk.
>
>I salute the redhead in this story.

But that came out of a bottle
.
.
.
(Historical reference. When Lucy was accused of being a communist,
her husband said the only thing Red about her was her hair, and even
that came out of a bottle.)

pian...@radix.net

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Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:

>Your sentence says it all. She registered to vote! That's unAmerican according
>your fantasy.

Do a little research and you'll also find out she supported the party.

pian...@radix.net

unread,
Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:

>But, let's face it, the right wing X-tians do a pretty good job of scumming
>themselves. Did Hillary force the Newt to abandon his wife and kids for a dame?
>Did Hillary force Henry Hyde to play around on the side? Did Hillary have
>anything to do with Livingstone? No. But it sounds good to the Laura Limbaugh
>crowd.
>
>Thanks for the wonderful example of your unAmericanism.

Wow, an out of the closet Klinton supporter.
I'd put my raincoat back on, the shades, and get back under your rock.


and...@my-deja.com

unread,
Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
In article <394b4a97...@news1.radix.net>,

pian...@radix.net wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:
[snip]

Lots of posts in this thread, but no one addressed the initial question
of whether the alleged Florida student killer was on behavior-modifying
prescription drugs. Given all the other examples, this is an obvious
question necessary to understand why the killing occurred.

One poster claimed that this issue had already been addressed in other
threads. I doubt it, but will go look if someone can point to
something substantive on this specific issue.

I don't recall school shootings before so many kids were given these
drugs. So in terms of causation, we've got a prime suspect.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
In article <20000613174159...@ng-cg1.news.cs.com>,

clay...@cs.comStopThat (ClaySkye) wrote:
>>From: "Magi D. Shepley"
>
>>Did you notice that any religion other than the one that
Pianoman believes
>>in is "liberal" whether the person is "liberal" or not?
>>
>>Magi
>>
>
>It's a common practice. Just like a cult is any religion that
is not your own.

Disagree. I do not believe that Christianity, Shintoism, B'hai,
or Wiccan is a cult. However, I believe that the various specie
of the so-called Messianic Jews are.

The distinction I make is in their practices of recruitment and
retention. Cults practice forms of brainwashing in recruitment
and retention.

I have read the J4J manual on recruitment, and it was scary. It
reminded me quote vividly of the training I received in
survival, escape and evasion and how to deal with brainweashing
if captured.

Another excellent example is the Cult of $cientology.

> Just like everyone who disagrees with you is close-minded.

Nope. Some people who disagree with me are so open minded that
their brain fell out. ;)

Just like the
>people who do agree with you but do things you disagree with
are not "truely"
>what they say they are. The "No true Scottsman" argument is
very popular.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


Mark Probert

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Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
In article <394a4a69...@news1.radix.net>,

pian...@radix.net wrote:
>On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:
>
>>Your sentence says it all. She registered to vote! That's
unAmerican according
>>your fantasy.
>Do a little research and you'll also find out she supported the
party.

Support your allegation. YOU bear the burden of proof.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
In article <39465403...@news1.radix.net>,

pian...@radix.net wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:57:27 -0700, Joni J Rathbun
><jrat...@orednet.org> wrote:
>
>>I'm not surprised ---> You have your facts wrong yet were
>>willing to make a judgement and decision without the facts.
>>
>>(Ball joined the communist party in the early 30s, not the
>>sixties, and did so at the "request" of her domineering
>>grandfather. After the fact, she never had anything to do
>>with the party in any way and I do believe the FBI eventually
>>came to the same conclusion).
>>
>>
>Yes, I was wrong. Thank you for pointing the date out. She
registered
>in 1936 as a communist to vote for the communist party.

When has it been a requirement that one be registered in a party
to vote for that party's candidates?

You still don't have it correct. Keep trying.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
In article <394b4a97...@news1.radix.net>,

pian...@radix.net wrote:
>On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:
>
>>But, let's face it, the right wing X-tians do a pretty good
job of scumming
>>themselves. Did Hillary force the Newt to abandon his wife and
kids for a dame?
>>Did Hillary force Henry Hyde to play around on the side? Did
Hillary have
>>anything to do with Livingstone? No. But it sounds good to the
Laura Limbaugh
>>crowd.
>>
>>Thanks for the wonderful example of your unAmericanism.
>Wow, an out of the closet Klinton supporter.

nah. Just a realist without blinders who can look in both
directions. You ought to try it.

>I'd put my raincoat back on, the shades, and get back under
your rock.

Funny, you know so much about raincoats...what do you know about
doorways??

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 14, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/14/00
to
In article <8i8dar$4h3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, and...@my-deja.com
wrote:

>In article <394b4a97...@news1.radix.net>,
> pian...@radix.net wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:
>[snip]
>
>Lots of posts in this thread, but no one addressed the initial
question
>of whether the alleged Florida student killer was on behavior-
modifying
>prescription drugs. Given all the other examples, this is an
obvious
>question necessary to understand why the killing occurred.
>
>One poster claimed that this issue had already been addressed
in other
>threads. I doubt it, but will go look if someone can point to
>something substantive on this specific issue.
>
>I don't recall school shootings before so many kids were given
these
>drugs. So in terms of causation, we've got a prime suspect.

Of the four shooting you made reference to, one was off
medication for at least a month at the time of the shooting
(imagine if he had stayed on it, maybe there would have been no
shooting) and theother was taking Inderal and Kenalog, one for
migraines the other for poison ivy.

Scratch that one!

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/15/00
to
In article <20000613194906...@nso-ce.aol.com>, kle...@aol.com
(Kleyle) writes:

>
>Reminds me of old Bob Novak who, when he heard that Rudy was dropping out,
>said, on National TV, "Did you ever notice that bad things happen to people
>who
>oppose the Clintons?" as if Mrs. Clinton had anything to do with Rudy's
>cancer
>and his playing around in spite of his marriage vows.

I thought it was Al Sharpton.


Mark Probert

A vote for Pat Buchanan is a vote for America's First Fuhrer!

Kleyle

unread,
Jun 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/15/00
to
Is Andy suggesting that I was stupid enough to say any of the stuff he posted
in this message? There is none of my material, so why is my name associated
with this post? Is this another scummy attack method? Entire post, unedited,
follows:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

>Subject: Re: school shootings
>From: and...@my-deja.com
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:53:56 GMT


>
>In article <394b4a97...@news1.radix.net>,
> pian...@radix.net wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2000 23:49:06 GMT, kle...@aol.com (Kleyle) wrote:
>[snip]
>
>Lots of posts in this thread, but no one addressed the initial question
>of whether the alleged Florida student killer was on behavior-modifying
>prescription drugs. Given all the other examples, this is an obvious
>question necessary to understand why the killing occurred.
>
>One poster claimed that this issue had already been addressed in other
>threads. I doubt it, but will go look if someone can point to
>something substantive on this specific issue.
>
>I don't recall school shootings before so many kids were given these
>drugs. So in terms of causation, we've got a prime suspect.
>

>Andy
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.

As ever,

Kleyle

unread,
Jun 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/15/00
to

>Wow, an out of the closet Klinton supporter.

>I'd put my raincoat back on, the shades, and get back under your rock.

Of course you would. That's because you are a parrot. You say what they want
you to say. You don't think for yourself, so when you have an original thought,
you get scared and crawl back under your rock.

Clinton supporters. Bad. Right along with the 60-70% of the American people who
have consistently supported this President. You may hang out with a very
narrow-minded crowd, but it doesn't appear to be the mainstream. Remember, win,
lose, or draw, he was your President for eight years. More to the point,
Hillary Clinton has a shot at winning the Senate seat in New Yorc. But anyone
who supports the Clintons is a radical nut, right?

Kleyle

unread,
Jun 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/15/00
to

>>Your sentence says it all. She registered to vote! That's unAmerican
>according
>>your fantasy.
>Do a little research and you'll also find out she supported the party.
>

Even so. Even if true. That was her right as an American. That's what the
Revolution was about. That's what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are
about. That's why we have elections and not shoot-'em-ups every couple of
years. That's why it's OKAY to disagree with the President or with the Kongress
or both. Get it? If she voted commie for a few years, and you haven't made that
case, it wouldn't have been contrary to laws of the United States of America.

Only in your fantasy. Did you think think that Desilu was a communist front?
Was Desi sending money to Castro? Wake up, man! Have an original thought for
once.

and...@my-deja.com

unread,
Jun 16, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/16/00
to
In article <05d92206...@usw-ex0106-047.remarq.com>,

Mark Probert <mtreborp...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
> Of the four shooting you made reference to, one was off
> medication for at least a month at the time of the shooting
> (imagine if he had stayed on it, maybe there would have been no
> shooting) and theother was taking Inderal and Kenalog, one for
> migraines the other for poison ivy.

The killer that you claim was off medication for at least a month was
Eric Harris. In fact, the autopsy proved he had Luvox in his system at
the time of his murders. "Tests from the autopsy on Harris showed
therapeutic levels of the psychotropic drug Luvox (Fluvoxomine), one of
the new selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, or SSRIs, commonly
prescribed for obsessive-compulsive disorder, or OCD, and depression."
Insight on the News, Dec. 13, 1999, author O'Meara, Kelly Patricia.

The other alleged shooter you cite is Seth Trickey. As reported by AP,
"And three weeks before the shooting, Trickey was given a large
injection of the prescription poison ivy drug Kenalog, said Dr. William
Banner, a toxicologist and medical director of the Oklahoma Poison
Center. Kenalog is a steroid alleged to have psychotic effects on some
users, according to the three medical experts who testified at the
hearing. 'Even in routine doses, these drugs can produce a psychotic
break,' Banner said." Trickey had also taken another drug that can
cause depression, according to the AP story.

Old Teacher

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
In article <3942F200...@concentric.net>, "Magi D. Shepley"
<ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> wrote:

> All of them attended church and came from Christian families too.
>

You lie! You wouldn't know a Christian if they told you so.

--
Recte Faciendo Neminen Timeas

Is it opinion? Is it fact? Is it truth?

Magi D. Shepley

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
I don't lie. But you can't handle the fact that every single one of the
school shooters had been to church and claimed to be of Christian
faith. I know you aren't a Christian, so I can pretty much tell the
different between the rest of them too.

Magi

Old Teacher wrote:

Remove the Space Cat to Email

Joni J Rathbun

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

On 20 Jun 2000, Old Teacher wrote:

> In article <3942F200...@concentric.net>, "Magi D. Shepley"
> <ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> wrote:
>
> > All of them attended church and came from Christian families too.
> >
>
> You lie! You wouldn't know a Christian if they told you so.
>

Yeah, but it's getting pretty easy around here to identify the
posers and imposters.


N4Th4n

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
i hope there are more school shooting, b/c my stundents need to die


Bill Toscano

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
Magi: What is your point?

The United States is an overly Christian nation (despite what the Supreme Court
said yesterday).

Obviously, the vast majority of people who commit any crimes are going to be
Christians.

Note: I have a very liberal definition of Christian, like if you believe in
Christ, you are a Christian -- that includes Catholics.

The real data point here is that 60 of 80 of these kids interviewed by a
psychologist's group were from divorced or single-parent home, and most of the
rest had serious problems at hime.

27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.

Bill T.


Joni J Rathbun

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

The little joys of webtv are without number.

Joni J Rathbun

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to

On 20 Jun 2000, Bill Toscano wrote:

>
> 27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.
>

Even Andy didn't throw that one out.



Magi D. Shepley

unread,
Jun 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/20/00
to
Where is the data on the 27 out of 28 students being on Prozac? At least you
didn't say Ritalin. At least you didn't blame special education teachers.
My point was in response to a person who claims to be a teacher, and states that if
we had religion (read Christianity) in the schools, and we banned that awful
Ritalin... and incidentally, those awful special ed teachers... and beat some sense
into these students... we woudln't have school shootings.

Magi

Bill Toscano wrote:

> 27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.
>

> Bill T.

ClaySkye

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
>From: Joni J Rathbun jrat...@orednet.org

>The little joys of webtv are without number.
>
>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, N4Th4n wrote:
>
>> i hope there are more school shooting, b/c my stundents need to die

This is why I have the entire domain kill-filed.

toto

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
On 21 Jun 2000 03:34:01 GMT, clay...@cs.comStopThat (ClaySkye)
wrote:

>>From: Joni J Rathbun jrat...@orednet.org
>
>>The little joys of webtv are without number.
>>
>>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, N4Th4n wrote:
>>
>>> i hope there are more school shooting, b/c my stundents need to die
>
>This is why I have the entire domain kill-filed.
>

Unfortunately, if that is the case, you missed a newbie webtver who
actually wants to join the discussion and (surprise) asked about
what to do and how the discussions worked. Despite the fact that
I will jump on the idiot ones or ignore them, there are some good
reasons to think that there are webtvers who have brains lurking
about and that they would make good additions to the discussions
here.

One of my best net-friends says that killfiles are the last resort
of closed minds. I've used it very infrequently so I understand the
impulses involved, but on the whole, I think my friend is correct.
You never know when even the most idiotic poster may offer something
of value and if you killfile him, you might just miss the gems.

Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
source unknown

Seveigny53

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <20000620161906...@ng-cg1.aol.com>, liams...@aol.com
(Bill Toscano) writes:

>Magi: What is your point?
>
>The United States is an overly Christian nation (despite what the Supreme
>Court
>said yesterday).

The US may be a nation populated by Christians. However, there is not any
unaniminty within Christian groups on what it means to be Christian. In fact,
different groups have vastly different definitions on what it means to be
Christian.

>Obviously, the vast majority of people who commit any crimes are going to be
>Christians.

>Note: I have a very liberal definition of Christian, like if you believe in
>Christ, you are a Christian -- that includes Catholics.

How magnamious of you. I have been told, by a number of people, that unless I
claim Christ as my personal saviour, I am not a Christian. This is despite the
fact that I was batized, received my first holy communion, was confirmed and
was married according the rites of the Catholic Church.

>The real data point here is that 60 of 80 of these kids interviewed by a
>psychologist's group were from divorced or single-parent home, and most of
>the
>rest had serious problems at hime.

Please provide an authentic citation to back up this information.

>
>27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.
>

Again, please provide unbiased documentation which backs up this assertion.
Cate


Kleyle

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <1cq0lsk3i6raqkdje...@4ax.com>, toto
<nob...@nowhere.invalid> writes:

>One of my best net-friends says that killfiles are the last resort
>of closed minds. I've used it very infrequently so I understand the
>impulses involved, but on the whole, I think my friend is correct.
>You never know when even the most idiotic poster may offer something
>of value and if you killfile him, you might just miss the gems.
>

Simple minded approach, though. It sounds good, but most issues are a good
deal more complex than that. Time is a major consideration. Of course, a
newsgroup is by definition a champion time waster, but one can't spend all day
at it. That means that some selectivity is important. Some folks are crude; the
maggot thing is crude. I don't receive those. I just get the echo effect which
is nasty enough. There are some I killfiled the first time I met them, and I
haven't regretted it, given the quotes that are attributed to them. There are
other people who I do not generally agree with and who are just as disgusting
as the ones in the killfile, but I keep quite a few around for laughs and to
monitor the fringe. One person's killfile is an individual matter. We know that
some people killfile because they can't handle the arguments, and it makes them
feel more secure like the Geneal or the Sarge. But others killfile because they
just don't want the noise. There are many reasons. I don't think it requires a
closed mind to killfile.

ClaySkye

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
>From: toto nob...@nowhere.invalid

>On 21 Jun 2000 03:34:01 GMT, clay...@cs.comStopThat (ClaySkye)
>wrote:
>
>>>From: Joni J Rathbun jrat...@orednet.org
>>
>>>The little joys of webtv are without number.
>>>
>>>On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, N4Th4n wrote:
>>>
>>>> i hope there are more school shooting, b/c my stundents need to die
>>
>>This is why I have the entire domain kill-filed.
>>
>Unfortunately, if that is the case, you missed a newbie webtver who
>actually wants to join the discussion and (surprise) asked about
>what to do and how the discussions worked. Despite the fact that
>I will jump on the idiot ones or ignore them, there are some good
>reasons to think that there are webtvers who have brains lurking
>about and that they would make good additions to the discussions
>here.
>

>One of my best net-friends says that killfiles are the last resort
>of closed minds. I've used it very infrequently so I understand the
>impulses involved, but on the whole, I think my friend is correct.
>You never know when even the most idiotic poster may offer something
>of value and if you killfile him, you might just miss the gems.
>

>Dorothy

Doubtful. If it is really good then someone will reply to it and I will see
it. Killfiles help me weed out several hundred messages a day. I can't read
every message and I choose to read posts I choose to read. Are there threads
you ignore? Then you would be doing the same thing. Being selective isn't
being close-minded. I have friends on WebTV as well, but I will tell them to
their faces that WebTV is for idiots.

toto

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
On 21 Jun 2000 06:33:42 GMT, clay...@cs.comStopThat (ClaySkye)
wrote:

I do ignore topics which don't interest me, so that weeds out some
things to be sure. I had only one or two addy's I kfed though
because despite the crap, they still come through with interesting
opinions on occasion. Different approaches I suppose. I just
figure if someone contributes to a thread that I want to read, I
would rather see *all* the contributions, even though some add
little to the mix.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.100062...@compass.oregonvos.net>,

Joni J Rathbun <jrat...@orednet.org> writes:

>
>On 20 Jun 2000, Bill Toscano wrote:
>
>>

>> 27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.
>>
>

>Even Andy didn't throw that one out.

True. The CCHR, amonst other KK$ groups has tried to push this lie for a long
time.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <20000620161906...@ng-cg1.aol.com>, liams...@aol.com
(Bill Toscano) writes:

>
>Magi: What is your point?
>
>The United States is an overly Christian nation (despite what the Supreme
>Court
>said yesterday).
>

>Obviously, the vast majority of people who commit any crimes are going to be
>Christians.
>
>Note: I have a very liberal definition of Christian, like if you believe in
>Christ, you are a Christian -- that includes Catholics.
>

>The real data point here is that 60 of 80 of these kids interviewed by a
>psychologist's group were from divorced or single-parent home, and most of
>the
>rest had serious problems at hime.
>

>27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.

That is incorrect.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <heatscan-200...@pm6-37.kalama.com>, heat...@kalama.com
(Old Teacher) writes:

>In article <3942F200...@concentric.net>, "Magi D. Shepley"
><ma...@catsincyberspace.concentric.net> wrote:
>
>> All of them attended church and came from Christian families too.
>>
>
>You lie! You wouldn't know a Christian if they told you so.

That's what was reported. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Also, what about the Christian kid who shot up that church?

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to
In article <20000620161906...@ng-cg1.aol.com>, liams...@aol.com
(Bill Toscano) writes:

>Magi: What is your point?
>
>The United States is an overly Christian nation (despite what the Supreme
>Court
>said yesterday).

Thank G-d for the First and Second Amendments!

Never again!

>Obviously, the vast majority of people who commit any crimes are going to be
>Christians.

Yep.

>Note: I have a very liberal definition of Christian, like if you believe in
>Christ, you are a Christian -- that includes Catholics.

I bet that will p*ss Catholics off. They *started* Christianity and it is
certainly nice of you to still include them.

>The real data point here is that 60 of 80 of these kids interviewed by a
>psychologist's group were from divorced or single-parent home, and most of
>the
>rest had serious problems at hime.

Wrong. The kids were interviewed by the psychological services section of the
United States Secret Service and they were found to be uniformly victims of
peer abuse. There were *some* with problems at home, but, it was not endemic as
you attempt to portray.

Mark Probert

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00
to

>On 20 Jun 2000, Bill Toscano wrote:
>
>>

>> 27 of 28 actual shooters were on Prozac.
>>
>

>Even Andy didn't throw that one out.

True, but knowing Andy for as long as I do, he will now cite it as a source. ;(

girord russell

unread,
Jun 21, 2000, 3:00:00 AM6/21/00