Ideas for dealing with lack of attention?
JeanneP
I'm looking for ways to deal with lack of attention in my 1st grade 7yo
son. All I've been able to find online are "ritalin yes or no" type
discussions and that's not what I'm looking for.
He's always had "selective hearing" at home and it's hard to keep him
focused on things he considers boring, but it's only becoming a real
problem in 1st grade. In particular, he'll goof off while his
classmates are doing writing assignments. We have a parent-teacher
conference coming up and I hope his teacher will have some good ideas,
but could I pick your brains too? He's the first 7yo child we've had.
At first, his teacher sent home notes about his lack of attention
(she'd have to fetch him for class circle times, for example, and
generally not do what she told the class to do), and we had the kinds
of one-on-one conversations with him that have usually worked in the
past. More recently, his teacher would send his undone writing
assignments home so he could do them for homework and so we would know
about the problem. Yesterday, she kept him from having recess so he
could re-do an assignment (I think that's good; we try to let our kids
learn their (in)actions have consequences!) but if that doesn't work we
need to think of something else.
His 4yo brother, by contrast, gets the same kinds of parenting from us
and doesn't have any such difficulties. We keep getting complements on
his behavior and intelligence, and he does what we tell him to do.
Thanks,
Jeanne
Sumbuny
"JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162493035....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Here is one site that may be of help...this is a page specifically for
helping the student with ADHD in the classroom, but there are many other
pages at this site for those with ADHD (both children and adults) that might
be worth a look...
http://www.ldonline.org/article/5911
--
Buny
" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus
The Serial Killfiler
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'm looking for ways to deal with lack of attention in my 1st grade 7yo
>son. All I've been able to find online are "ritalin yes or no" type
>discussions and that's not what I'm looking for.
I know little about the little ones, so I won't offer advice on that.
However I hope you are able to make some progress with this issue that
doesn't involve special education or any tablets.
TSK
----------------------------------
"May those who damn us be damned."
alhuriy...@NOBOTSyahoo.com
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
LAH
"JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162493035....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://www.adhdnews.com/
It doesn't sound as if your son has had any diagnosis of ADHD but your post
led me to believe you might be thinking along those lines.
I particularly like the message boards on this site. They are pretty active
and very helpful when you feel a need to rant or just need a listening ear
from someone who has "been there and done that". For the most part those
who chose to medicate, those who chose not to or can't, and those who chose
other alternatives, seem to coexist peacefully. Those who have an "ax to
grind" or just like to flame are at a minimum.
Good Luck.
JeanneP
LAH wrote:
> "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162493035....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm looking for ways to deal with lack of attention in my 1st grade 7yo
> > son. All I've been able to find online are "ritalin yes or no" type
> > discussions and that's not what I'm looking for.
> >
> http://www.adhdnews.com/
>
> It doesn't sound as if your son has had any diagnosis of ADHD but your post
> led me to believe you might be thinking along those lines.
Thank you. I'll take a look. You're right, he doesn't have a
diagnosis, and we don't want to peruse one. We'd prefer him to
recognize how important this is and help him find coping mechanisms;
he'll probably have a better life that way. I know he has a problem
with attention but when I look that up in a web search it's hard to
find behavioral things.
He always gets 10 hours of sleep each night but last night I got him to
bed earlier. This morning instead of a suggary cereal I gave him Cream
of Wheat. Since he brought home another undone assignment with another
note from his teacher, I had him write her a simple note of apology
with "I will do better today." I explained all the way why we're doing
this to try to instill in him how important this is. I also emphasized
that I know he can do these things, and discovered something;
apparently yesterday his teacher told him she thinks he should still be
in kindergarten. He's very sensitive and internalized that. Of course,
that makes me and his father pretty upset with her.
I'm going to have to be careful at the parent-teacher conference to not
be antagonistic and make it clear that we want to work *with* her. I've
heard horror stories of some teachers who take bad relations out on the
kids, and I certainly don't want that to happen here.
Jeanne
toto
wrote:
>I also emphasized
>that I know he can do these things, and discovered something;
>apparently yesterday his teacher told him she thinks he should still be
>in kindergarten. He's very sensitive and internalized that. Of course,
>that makes me and his father pretty upset with her.
I would be very upset with the teacher who said this. There is no way
that it is appropriate for her to tell a student something like this.
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
toto
wrote:
>Thank you. I'll take a look. You're right, he doesn't have a
>diagnosis, and we don't want to peruse one. We'd prefer him to
>recognize how important this is and help him find coping mechanisms;
>he'll probably have a better life that way. I know he has a problem
>with attention but when I look that up in a web search it's hard to
>find behavioral things.
Before you dismiss getting a diagnosis, think about the child's
perspective. He may *not* be able to control his impulses, if he is
truly adhd. This was written for a child with SPD, but it fits ADHD
as well in many respects.
Putting things in perspective: We’d like you to think about
and remember this when we are discussing what is needed to
support ***********, and in considering his IEP.
Imagine you are in a very loud an echoing gym. There are
very bright fluorescent lights flickering and buzzing
overhead. There is loud music playing that doesn’t sound
pretty; it just sounds like distorted guitars and shouting.
There are 500 kids in the room with you who are running,
jumping, laughing, crying and making a racket. Someone in
the cafeteria next door is cooking something that has a
very strong and terrible smell.
Now imagine you are to remain seated at a desk in the
middle of this room and work on writing your dissertation.
Besides what’s going on in the environment, every time you
move your head the slightest bit, the words all move on
the page and you have to re-orient yourself. Your hand is
weak and controlling it to form the letters takes great
concentration – and still the letters tend to come out
backwards or in the wrong spot sometimes. To make it worse,
there is a moderator in the room with a timer and they
have only given you a certain amount of time to write the
next paragraph of your dissertation.
How would you feel? Would you feel stressed and anxious?
Would you be able to go to this environment every single
day in order to get your dissertation written? Would you
be able to pay attention and concentrate? Would you do
your best work? Would you request frequent bathroom
breaks? How would you feel if after leaving this room
someone did something else to irritate you such as took
the last cup of coffee, ruined your favorite pen, or you
went home and your children were whining and hyper. Would
you remain calm? Would you over react and blow off steam?
Remember – this is what it is like for *********** every day he
has to be in class in school. The more anxious and
stressed ************ becomes, the more we will know that the
environment is getting to him. Once he is past his limit,
there is no getting him back without a break. If you had
to endure that same environment for 9 weeks, how long of a
break would you need to take before you did not feel
stressed about going back to it?
Now, let’s make it even worse. Think again about those eyes
that get lost all the time and the hands that have so much trouble
forming words. You’re back in your “sensory overload gym,” and your
advisor has decided that you MUST improve your time on-task and also
the speed and accuracy of your work. Basically, you must learn to
physically control your hand and eyes while also dealing with the
other stressors in the environment. Your advisor gives you 2 choices.
You can work on and be measured for improvement by reading and copying
a dull and repetitive financial report full of meaningless statistics
– or you can do this work by reading and copying a novel by your
favorite author. With which material do you suppose you could better
manage to block out all the negative sensory assaults and actually
make the improvements your advisor wants to see?
This is why ************ must have different material that is
challenging and interesting. It is why all studies show
that Twice Exceptional kids do not do well when material
is reduced (in level not amount) and made easier. They
require help, but it must be the right kind of help. The
wrong kind of help only adds to their stress and a
downward spiral begins. No IEP can be useful unless it
addresses the entire unique package that is the child and
his/her needs. In fact, addressing the child as a “whole”
rather than a sum of a few disabilities was one of the
main reasons for enacting “No Child Left Behind.” The
wrong environment and the wrong work would result in **********
being left behind.
Sumbuny
"JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162565751.3...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> LAH wrote:
>> "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162493035....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I'm looking for ways to deal with lack of attention in my 1st grade 7yo
>> > son. All I've been able to find online are "ritalin yes or no" type
>> > discussions and that's not what I'm looking for.
>> >
>> You might want to take a look at this site:
>> http://www.adhdnews.com/
>>
>> It doesn't sound as if your son has had any diagnosis of ADHD but your
>> post
>> led me to believe you might be thinking along those lines.
>
> Thank you. I'll take a look. You're right, he doesn't have a
> diagnosis, and we don't want to peruse one. We'd prefer him to
> recognize how important this is and help him find coping mechanisms;
> he'll probably have a better life that way. I know he has a problem
> with attention but when I look that up in a web search it's hard to
> find behavioral things.
Interesting phrasing...you "know he has a problem with attention"...yet you
do not want to persue a diagnosis that might help get him the help he needs
with that very problem.
Not all help with ADHD involves medication....I have ADHD, as do both of my
sons (one also is dealing with gifted/aspergers syndrome/SID). While we
have used medication on occasion, we have not used it all the time--I
compare it to using antihistimines--we use it only when we need them, and
not when we do not. When our symptoms are problematic, and non-medication
is not working, we use medication....when non-medication works, we do not
use medication. My sons have not used medication to cope with their ADHD
symptoms for years...but if they find that they need medication again, they
will not refuse it, they recognize it as a tool--nothing more, nothing less.
I posted a link to a site that gave several non-medication
resources....there are many others that have ADHD resources as well...
http://add.about.com/ is one http://www.chadd.org/ is another The thing
with these is that the offer both sides--medication and non-medication--in
order to support those who choose both aspects. From what I have researched
(and experienced), a mulit-modal approach is often quite successful, though
I will not judge any person on their own choices--that is between them and
their doctor.
I just highly reccommend that you *do* talk to your child's doctor in order
to rule out any possible problems that might be causing--or
exacerbating--your son's attentional issues. One thing to realize, though,
is that a proper diagnosis of ADHD (or not) would mean an exhastive series
of testing in order to rule out any other possibility...if something is
causing "ADHD-like symptoms," then it is not ADHD, but <insert
diagnosis>...but if something is causing the symptoms and cannot be defined
as <non-ADHD diagnosis>, then it is more than likely ADHD...
FWIW, if you want to know more, the diagnostic criteria that the doctor will
be looking at, from the DSM-IV (Diagnostic Statistical Manual 4th ed) is:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm
DSM-IV Criteria for ADHD
I. Either A or B:
1.. Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present
for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for
developmental level:
Inattention
1.. Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless
mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
2.. Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.
3.. Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
4.. Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork,
chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or
failure to understand instructions).
5.. Often has trouble organizing activities.
6.. Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot
of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
7.. Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school
assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
8.. Is often easily distracted.
9.. Is often forgetful in daily activities.
2.. Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity
have been present for at least 6 months to an extent that is disruptive and
inappropriate for developmental level:
Hyperactivity
1.. Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
2.. Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.
3.. Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate
(adolescents or adults may feel very restless).
4.. Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.
5.. Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
6.. Often talks excessively.
Impulsivity
1.. Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.
2.. Often has trouble waiting one's turn.
3.. Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations
or games).
2.. Some symptoms that cause impairment were present before age 7 years.
3.. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings
(e.g. at school/work and at home).
4.. There must be clear evidence of significant impairment in social,
school, or work functioning.
5.. The symptoms do not happen only during the course of a Pervasive
Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorder. The
symptoms are not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g. Mood
Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality
Disorder).
Based on these criteria, three types of ADHD are identified:
1.. ADHD, Combined Type: if both criteria 1A and 1B are met for the past 6
months
2.. ADHD, Predominantly Inattentive Type: if criterion 1A is met but
criterion 1B is not met for the past six months
3.. ADHD, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type: if Criterion 1B is met
but Criterion 1A is not met for the past six months.
American Psychiatric Association: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of
Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Washington, DC, American
Psychiatric Association, 2000.
This way, you know more about it, in order to make a more informed
decision--which is something I firmly believe in--making "informed
decisions," that is <g>
The most important thing is getting the right supports in place for your
son, so that he has the best chance of success...whatever the terminology
turns out to be <g>
sf
Sounds like a "processing" problem.... probably auditory. Have you
had him evaluated? Some kids have ADD without the HD part - which
calls for an evaluation too. In either case, you can't guess, get an
expert involved. There are other reasons your son may exhibit those
symptoms, but let's not go there until you've eliminated the obvious.
`````````````````````````````````
On 2 Nov 2006 10:43:55 -0800, "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Hi all,
--
See return address to reply by email
Jerry Beeler
>
> In either case, you can't guess, get an expert involved.
Agree with sf. The web is a valuable resource for information but when it
comes to giving methamphetamine to a first grader I would be VERY careful.
Nothing can take the place of a face-to-face with a qualified human being,
even at that, before taking the meth-trip get more than one opinion.
> There are other reasons your son may exhibit those
> symptoms ...
Like .. you know ... being a kid.
Jerry
JeanneP
Sumbuny wrote:
> "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162565751.3...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > LAH wrote:
> >> "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1162493035....@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I'm looking for ways to deal with lack of attention in my 1st grade 7yo
> >> > son. All I've been able to find online are "ritalin yes or no" type
> >> > discussions and that's not what I'm looking for.
> >> >
> >> You might want to take a look at this site:
> >> http://www.adhdnews.com/
> >>
> >> It doesn't sound as if your son has had any diagnosis of ADHD but your
> >> post
> >> led me to believe you might be thinking along those lines.
> >
> > Thank you. I'll take a look. You're right, he doesn't have a
> > diagnosis, and we don't want to peruse one. We'd prefer him to
> > recognize how important this is and help him find coping mechanisms;
> > he'll probably have a better life that way. I know he has a problem
> > with attention but when I look that up in a web search it's hard to
> > find behavioral things.
>
> Interesting phrasing...you "know he has a problem with attention"...yet you
> do not want to persue a diagnosis that might help get him the help he needs
> with that very problem.
I said that because I equated a diagnosis with medication, and we want
to look for non-medication ways to help him...
> Not all help with ADHD involves medication....
... And thank you for clearing that up for me. I appreciate the lists,
too.
We're not against getting appropriate help. Last year in kindergarten
we saw some social awkwardness and asked the school phychologist to
test him for Asperger's, and she concluded he's not on the spectrum.
We just don't want to jump to conclusions and throw medication at a
behavioral issue that can be address another way.
We're pretty sure he doesn't have an auditory problem because at home,
when he seems to be "zoning out" and not listening to us (telling him
to do things he doesn't want to do, like coming to help pick up toys or
getting himself dressed in the morning), we might toss in something
like, N*****, you hair's on fire" without changing tone, and he always
responds to that. Of course, for things he wants to hear, he always
hears and responds to fine. That's why I call it "selective hearing."
At this time I doubt ADD or ADHD, with my limited knowledge of the
subject, because he's perfectly capable of sitting down and writing,
and finishing without prompting; the difference is if he cares to. For
example, he recently sat for 30 minutes and read through some books
aloud for me one morning while I was getting ready for the day, because
he likes to practice reading and likes those books. I even had to tell
him when it was time to stop and eat breakfast.
Also, I asked his sunday school teacher yesterday if she'd experienced
any kinds of attention problems with him, and she was surprised by the
question, assuring me she's had no such problems at all with him.
At this time, our opinion is that he's just not used to buckling down
and doing things he doesn't want to do (we may have been lax in this
area at home) and he gets easily distracted during those times. Of
course, we'll talk all this over with his teacher and if she thinks
there's cause to pursue some kind of diagnosis, since she's had a lot
more experience with his age group than we have, then we'll pursue
that. Our challenge is to keep this a cooperative relationship and not
get adversarial. Not only did she tell him he should be in
kindergarten, but I also found out she's applying labels in front of
the other students, calling him "Joker N*****" with a similar label for
the friend he gets silly with.
It hurts to see that, because he's a sensitive kid and he takes it to
heart. This weekend, his karate class was asked by their teacher to
express thankfullness to identify someone important in their lives and
write them a note of gratitude. He chose his 1st grade teacher and
wanted to thank her for "helping him learn." This was completely his
idea. And no, he's not just trying to butter her up... he's not that
sophisticated at this point. And yes, he wrote the whole note in one
sitting, start to finish, without any prompting. I really hope she
doesn't continue with hurtful words, because I'm not sure what to do if
that does continue. If I go to the principal I fear she might take it
out on him (I've heard of that happening).
Jeanne
toto
wrote:
>At this time I doubt ADD or ADHD, with my limited knowledge of the
>subject, because he's perfectly capable of sitting down and writing,
>and finishing without prompting; the difference is if he cares to. For
>example, he recently sat for 30 minutes and read through some books
>aloud for me one morning while I was getting ready for the day, because
>he likes to practice reading and likes those books. I even had to tell
>him when it was time to stop and eat breakfast.
People with ADD *can* hyperfocus when they are interested in
something. The fact that he can focus sometimes doesn't rule out ADD
or ADHD.
LAH
"toto" <scar...@wicked.witch> wrote in message
news:no70l2t8h612b9pem...@4ax.com...
> On 6 Nov 2006 08:35:20 -0800, "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>At this time I doubt ADD or ADHD, with my limited knowledge of the
>>subject, because he's perfectly capable of sitting down and writing,
>>and finishing without prompting; the difference is if he cares to. For
>>example, he recently sat for 30 minutes and read through some books
>>aloud for me one morning while I was getting ready for the day, because
>>he likes to practice reading and likes those books. I even had to tell
>>him when it was time to stop and eat breakfast.
>
> People with ADD *can* hyperfocus when they are interested in
> something. The fact that he can focus sometimes doesn't rule out ADD
> or ADHD.
An example of this would be X-box. DS can spent hours playing. I've lost
count of the times uniformed friends or family will point to that as an
example of why they believe he couldn't possibly be ADHD and how doctors are
just over diagnosing the condition. Nevermind the fact, it takes close to
an hour in the morning for him to finally get around to tying his shoes -
and then only after numerous reminders (We're talking about a 12 year old
here!) In addition, it is a rarity when he is able to complete homework
without one of us (Mom or Dad) sitting right beside him to constantly help
him refocus. Work that should take only a few minutes can drag out into
hours. I must say it really is irritating when some well-intentioned
know-it-all starts going on about how it is all a matter of poor
discipline - aargh!!! The last straw is when they say, "Well, he's capable
of doing the work if he would just pay attention and work in class!"
Please, tell me something I don't know!!!!!!
Sumbuny
No problem--that is one of the most common myths about ADHD, by the way, so
it is understandable...
>
>> Not all help with ADHD involves medication....
>
> ... And thank you for clearing that up for me. I appreciate the lists,
> too.
>
> We're not against getting appropriate help. Last year in kindergarten
> we saw some social awkwardness and asked the school phychologist to
> test him for Asperger's, and she concluded he's not on the spectrum.
> We just don't want to jump to conclusions and throw medication at a
> behavioral issue that can be address another way.
Understand about that as well...my younger son is currently dealing with
that, as well as some ADHD...currently his diagnosis is
ADHD/gifted/asperger's/SID...though it did take several years of "tweaking"
to finally get that diagnosis right.
One of the things about AS is that it often manifests around 3rd grade,
right around the time that classrooms shift from being highly-structured,
highly-modeled, and highly-repetitive (because most kids need this in order
to learn how to learn), to a class with less of this--and these are the
things that the kid with higher-functioning autism needs to survive. When
these supports are removed from the routine of the classroom, a kid who was
"making it" in the classroom that had them in place will suddenly "develop"
symptoms--because there are no longer the supports that he had that allowed
him to function.
That is why my son's AS was not diagnosed until 3rd grade--and once we got
those supports back into place (it took over a year and a half), he started
to slowly regain lost ground.
>
> We're pretty sure he doesn't have an auditory problem because at home,
> when he seems to be "zoning out" and not listening to us (telling him
> to do things he doesn't want to do, like coming to help pick up toys or
> getting himself dressed in the morning), we might toss in something
> like, N*****, you hair's on fire" without changing tone, and he always
> responds to that. Of course, for things he wants to hear, he always
> hears and responds to fine. That's why I call it "selective hearing."
>
> At this time I doubt ADD or ADHD, with my limited knowledge of the
> subject, because he's perfectly capable of sitting down and writing,
> and finishing without prompting; the difference is if he cares to. For
> example, he recently sat for 30 minutes and read through some books
> aloud for me one morning while I was getting ready for the day, because
> he likes to practice reading and likes those books. I even had to tell
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Those are the key words...another myth of ADHD is that we cannot focus or
cannot pay attention to anything. Not true--we tend to pay attention to
everything--but when it is something we are very interested in, we tend to
switch to hypERfocus...problem is, we often can manage the switch on our
own...i.e., most other people know where that switch is, but we have somehow
misplaced ours <g>
> him when it was time to stop and eat breakfast.
>
> Also, I asked his sunday school teacher yesterday if she'd experienced
> any kinds of attention problems with him, and she was surprised by the
> question, assuring me she's had no such problems at all with him.
>
> At this time, our opinion is that he's just not used to buckling down
> and doing things he doesn't want to do (we may have been lax in this
> area at home) and he gets easily distracted during those times.
<G> BTDT, got too many shirts <g> Routines are good ways to handle many
things, including how to approach the things that have to be done, but we
don't necessarily want to do (after all, how many of us truly like to do all
the things involved with housework? <g>)
Of
> course, we'll talk all this over with his teacher and if she thinks
> there's cause to pursue some kind of diagnosis, since she's had a lot
> more experience with his age group than we have, then we'll pursue
> that. Our challenge is to keep this a cooperative relationship and not
> get adversarial. Not only did she tell him he should be in
> kindergarten, but I also found out she's applying labels in front of
> the other students, calling him "Joker N*****" with a similar label for
> the friend he gets silly with.
I would definately be concerned....if she is calling people names, what is
she teaching her kids? That is not really the environment I would think
would be conducive to the success of a child that might have some
exceptionalities--whatever they may turn out to be...
>
> It hurts to see that, because he's a sensitive kid and he takes it to
> heart. This weekend, his karate class was asked by their teacher to
> express thankfullness to identify someone important in their lives and
> write them a note of gratitude.
I like that idea....and taking martial arts is a good idea for someone who
has issues with propriaception (the perception of where one's body is in
space)--I took 3 years of Chinese kung fu/t'ai chi, mainly because I was a
klutz---body awareness does wonders for self confidence, and the fact that
it teaches discipline (which is internal--"self discipline" is redundant,
IMHO) can be of help to your son in the long run. When I was taking martial
arts, we had several with hyperactivity and impulsivity issues, and this did
help focus somewhat...also, one of the Scouts in my son's troop takes tae
kwon do and is a world-class black belt--it has helped him therapuetically
in many ways as well.
> He chose his 1st grade teacher and
> wanted to thank her for "helping him learn." This was completely his
> idea. And no, he's not just trying to butter her up... he's not that
> sophisticated at this point.
<G> I can believe you...I have seen this happen with other kids...as I said
above, sounds like a good idea, gets kids to learn to appreciate
non-materail things that they have...
> And yes, he wrote the whole note in one
> sitting, start to finish, without any prompting.
Again, just like anyone else, focus often depends on interst...however,
being able to *control* said focus is often difficult when someone is
dealing with issues such as ADHD or the autistic spectrum...
> I really hope she
> doesn't continue with hurtful words, because I'm not sure what to do if
> that does continue. If I go to the principal I fear she might take it
> out on him (I've heard of that happening).
For your son's sake, (and the other students), if this is true, I would hope
so...my suggestion is that you document this, just so you do not lose track
of what you know--it might not be as often as you remember (or it
might)...but having it on paper will show if there is a pattern, or
triggers...much like what would be done to try to determine a child's
behavioral issues as well <g>
Sumbuny
"LAH" <som...@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:W344h.7612$lq....@newsread1.mlpsca01.us.to.verio.net...
<nodding> For my kids, it is anything with the computers...for me, it was my
books--I would literally "block out the world" when reading a book, and
people would have to call my name several times. If I finished a class
assignment early, I would pull out my (sci fi/fantasy) novel, and
read...sometimes I would miss the bell, I was so hyperfocused....similar
state of self-hypnosis would happen when I was playing music in the band--I
would have what I felt like were almost "out of body" experiences on the
football field during halftime, I was concentrating so hard on the field
show...
However, if I was not interested, I was alsways fidgeting, talking,
interrupting others, etc....definately ADHHHHD <g>
Oh, hubby does say that when I get sensory overload, I tend to "zone out"
just like my son does...I start staring off into space, and all it takes is
someone calling my name....a form of hyperfocus as well...
sf
Absolutely!
JeanneP
the Joker label and the remark about belonging in kindergarten in a
very low-key, non confrontational way. It's not clear to me if my son
simply misunderstood what he was being told, or if the teacher was
prepared with her responses, but I'm happy with how that went. If there
is a real problem, now she knows we're aware of it, and if there isn't,
now she knows to be more careful about how she might be interpreted.
The teacher seems to think the problem is entirely behavioral. We
talked about techniques and identified that specific goal setting might
help. For example, our son was not interested in learning to tie his
shoes until we a) got him a new pair of sneakers that lace and told him
he can't wear them to school until he ties them himself, and b) got him
to decide to be one of the kids who can help other kids tie shoes.
Then, he learned very quickly and now each day he puts on and ties his
shoes when asked. We think part of the reason he doesn't do his writing
center work at school is because he doesn't understand it's relevancy,
so if he has a goal it will motivate him to want to do it. Now I know
from your explanations (thank you!) that this behavioral issue could
very well be ADD behavior. In any case I'm glad we came up with another
tool for the teacher to try.
What we didn't talk about is specifics about how she handles N*****
when he acts up, and I wish I'd thought about it, but it's not worth
trying to bring it up again in an email or phone call, because that
would come across as confrontational.
I also asked if these behaviors are specific to the time of day. She
said the afternoons are definitely worse than the mornings. Since I've
had low blood sugar, and since he's so skinny, I've made an appointment
with our doctor to talk about that. We may also get bloodwork done to
find out if he has any nutritional deficiencies since he's such a picky
eater and since (as I've recently learned) some things like magnesium
and B6 deficiencies may affect ADD and/or Asperger's behavior.
I also found a behavioral technique (from one of the links or searches
inspired by those links posted in this thread) that my husband is also
interested in trying. Our son can really frustrate us with his not
answering and not responding when we call on him. We'll try the "First
Time Club" described in this post:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/browse_frm/thread/f743c0458e23745f/17a7f287a253fd67?lnk=st&q=%22First+Time+Club%22+ADD&rnum=3&hl=en#17a7f287a253fd67
[more below...]
Sumbuny wrote:
> "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162830920.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> I like that idea....and taking martial arts is a good idea for someone who
> has issues with propriaception (the perception of where one's body is in
> space)--I took 3 years of Chinese kung fu/t'ai chi, mainly because I was a
> klutz---body awareness does wonders for self confidence, and the fact that
> it teaches discipline (which is internal--"self discipline" is redundant,
> IMHO) can be of help to your son in the long run.
We had him in gymnastics for a few years to help him be a little less
klutzy, and he loved that, but now his age group does competitions and
he just wanted to play. So this is why we have him in karate, which he
loves, thanks to a wonderful instructor. We've also recognized that he
could benefit from the self control taught in karate.
Thank you all,
Jeanne
Sumbuny
"JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163019013.6...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> The parent-teacher conference was yesterday. I approached the topics of
> the Joker label and the remark about belonging in kindergarten in a
> very low-key, non confrontational way. It's not clear to me if my son
> simply misunderstood what he was being told, or if the teacher was
> prepared with her responses, but I'm happy with how that went. If there
> is a real problem, now she knows we're aware of it, and if there isn't,
> now she knows to be more careful about how she might be interpreted.
>
> The teacher seems to think the problem is entirely behavioral.
If she believes so, and the school concurs, then perhaps a Functional
Behavioral Assessment might be called for...this is a procedure in which the
child's behavior(s) is gone over with a fine-tooth comb (as well as the
cumulative folder) in order to determine what purpose the behavior is
serving...i.e., in the child's mind, "why" is he doing what he is doing.
Once that has been determined, then the environment can be adjusted so that
the child learns to use other behaviors to achieve the same goals...
This is used in conjuction with some sort of behavior modification
therapy--for my son, we used Behavioral Supports, a type of modified Applied
Behavior Analysis, in order to help him "retrain" his impulses (now, he had
several behavioral issues, as well as social skills problems, because of the
asperger's as well as the impulsivity of the ADHD)
> We
> talked about techniques and identified that specific goal setting might
> help. For example, our son was not interested in learning to tie his
> shoes until we a) got him a new pair of sneakers that lace and told him
> he can't wear them to school until he ties them himself, and b) got him
> to decide to be one of the kids who can help other kids tie shoes.
> Then, he learned very quickly and now each day he puts on and ties his
> shoes when asked. We think part of the reason he doesn't do his writing
> center work at school is because he doesn't understand it's relevancy,
> so if he has a goal it will motivate him to want to do it. Now I know
> from your explanations (thank you!) that this behavioral issue could
> very well be ADD behavior. In any case I'm glad we came up with another
> tool for the teacher to try.
Glad I could help...it is often a case of Been There, Done That....and
sometimes the worst thing is feeling like you are the only one dealing with
this type of issue--there is definately "safety in numbers" and sharing
ideas about what has been tried and results (remembering that "one size does
not fit all"!) helps in brainstorming for our own kids! <g>
>
> What we didn't talk about is specifics about how she handles N*****
> when he acts up, and I wish I'd thought about it, but it's not worth
> trying to bring it up again in an email or phone call, because that
> would come across as confrontational.
You might consider talking to the guidance counselor, or someone in that
department...if this is going on, it is possible (probable) that this would
be exacerbating the problems that the teacher says are "only
behavioral"...this would probably come out in theFunctional Assessment...
>
> I also asked if these behaviors are specific to the time of day. She
> said the afternoons are definitely worse than the mornings. Since I've
> had low blood sugar, and since he's so skinny, I've made an appointment
> with our doctor to talk about that. We may also get bloodwork done to
> find out if he has any nutritional deficiencies since he's such a picky
> eater and since (as I've recently learned) some things like magnesium
> and B6 deficiencies may affect ADD and/or Asperger's behavior.
Definately would not hurt to have any problems ruled out...my own son is
quite thin, and does not eat much--his sensory issues cause him to have food
issues (tactile defensive--texture is a big issue), so getting calories into
my 5'10" 115 pound kid has always been a bit of a challenge. One thing that
has helped are the drink supplements--he currently is favoring Boost...
>
> I also found a behavioral technique (from one of the links or searches
> inspired by those links posted in this thread) that my husband is also
> interested in trying. Our son can really frustrate us with his not
> answering and not responding when we call on him. We'll try the "First
> Time Club" described in this post:
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/browse_frm/thread/f743c0458e23745f/17a7f287a253fd67?lnk=st&q=%22First+Time+Club%22+ADD&rnum=3&hl=en#17a7f287a253fd67
>
I see many good things on this--the consistancy, routine, structure, clear
communication in detailed specifics, all of these are great things for our
kids....
One thing that has helped me a lot is an old-fashioned kitchen timer. When
it is time for "time out," I set the timer for the required time....none of
this "Mom, my time is up....Mom, are you sure? Mom can I come out now?" I
simply point at the timer (set where they cannot "adjust" it)...they might
try to plead/whine/argue with me, but I tell them to argue with the timer...
Another thing is that this reminds me of the techniqeus we used--choose your
battles, and reward desired behavior while not giving attention to undesired
behavior (unless dangerous)...Remember, yelling is attention...
Also, we set up "contracts" concerning routine things, such as chores, or
school grades (which I can check online)...the contract is clear, specific,
"legalese"...the kids have an end to keep up, and in return so do we
(computer privilages, treats, etc)....and we both sign it...
> [more below...]
>
> Sumbuny wrote:
>> "JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162830920.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I like that idea....and taking martial arts is a good idea for someone
>> who
>> has issues with propriaception (the perception of where one's body is in
>> space)--I took 3 years of Chinese kung fu/t'ai chi, mainly because I was
>> a
>> klutz---body awareness does wonders for self confidence, and the fact
>> that
>> it teaches discipline (which is internal--"self discipline" is redundant,
>> IMHO) can be of help to your son in the long run.
>
> We had him in gymnastics for a few years to help him be a little less
> klutzy, and he loved that, but now his age group does competitions and
> he just wanted to play. So this is why we have him in karate, which he
> loves, thanks to a wonderful instructor. We've also recognized that he
> could benefit from the self control taught in karate.
<G> I remember one time, when I was teaching the kids' class (as a brown
belt, it was one of our repsonsibilities to teach someone)....I had to give
a "lesson of the day" at the end, after we finished our ("long") 1 minute of
meditation...I asked the kids how many of them had parents who "disciplined"
them....most raised their hands. I then told them that their parents could
not "discipline them (listening for the collective gasp from the parents,
sitting on the sidelines of the workout floor). I asked them what they
meant, "My mom 'makes' me clean my room...that's discipline, right?" I
looked at her and asked, "Does that mean your mom takes your hand, forces
you to pick everything up?" "Of course not!" (giggles/laughter) I asked
them if they cleaned their rooms/did chores when told to...and all said they
did, or else they would be "disciplined" by their parents...
I then let them in on the "secret" of the day.....when they chose to do
their chores, do the right things....they were showing discipline, because
it is something you do for yourself, you canNOT do it for anyone else.
However, if they chose not to do so, if they lacked discipline, then their
parents would probably give them a punishment--which is one of the tools to
teach someone discipline. (listening for sigh of relief from parents--and
got it <g>)...the kids learned that what they were learning in addition to
the physical aspect of kung fu was the internal aspect, which can be more
important--discipline <g>
I will be honest with you...even after several years, and earning my first
degree blacks (which was a half-dozen years ago; I have had to quit that
practice because life got too busy), I am still dealing with ADHD (and all
that entails, since I am more hyperactive than anything)...however, I still
can find my center, my "calming" place....and after a particularly rough
day, that can be crucial
We all need that...especially when dealing with special needs kids....
From one mom to another, a suggestion?
Make sure that you remember to take time for yourself at least once a day
(even if it is only 15 minutes)...if possible, find an outlet for yourself
where you are Jeanne, not "_____'s mom" or "______'s wife"....find time to
"refill your well" because if you are constantly letting others dip into
your well of energy, and you do not find a way to recharge it, who will take
care of them when your well runs dry?
Sounds "selfish" but we caregivers do need to remember this....
paisleys02
I was looking at some of the responses that you received and I just had
a few suggestions to add. First, do really consider discussion with a
physician..not necessarily about medication but about the challenges
your son is having. I know diet was mentioned, but there are other
medical issues to rule out. For example, sleep disturbances can also
cause problems with attention and alertness. I'm not a doctor, but I
work with kids who have ADHD. Also, it sounds simple, but make sure
you have his hearing checked. You said you had him evaluated by a
school psych, so hopefully they ruled out learning disabilities at that
time.
>From a behavioral standpoint, a more proactive approach usually brings
better results than consequences for not getting something done
correctly. Work in praise wherever you can when he does well. Set up
a signal between him and his teacher for reminding him to get back on
task. Maybe work out a reward system that crosses from school to home
where he earns points for rewards/priveleges by participating or
completing work. You'll probably see similar suggestions in your
reading and on websites. Best of luck!
Sandra
sf
wrote:
>I also found a behavioral technique (from one of the links or searches
>inspired by those links posted in this thread) that my husband is also
>interested in trying. Our son can really frustrate us with his not
>answering and not responding when we call on him. We'll try the "First
>Time Club" described in this post:
>http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.attn-deficit/browse_frm/thread/f743c0458e23745f/17a7f287a253fd67?lnk=st&q=%22First+Time+Club%22+ADD&rnum=3&hl=en#17a7f287a253fd67
>
His lag can be language based or he can also have an auditory
processing problem. In either case, it seems the child is willfully
not responding when you're the one making the request. Of course, it
can be simply behavioral too. :)
sf
wrote:
>Nevermind the fact, it takes close to
>an hour in the morning for him to finally get around to tying his shoes -
>and then only after numerous reminders (We're talking about a 12 year old
>here!) In addition, it is a rarity when he is able to complete homework
>without one of us (Mom or Dad) sitting right beside him to constantly help
>him refocus. Work that should take only a few minutes can drag out into
>hours. I must say it really is irritating when some well-intentioned
>know-it-all starts going on about how it is all a matter of poor
>discipline - aargh!!! The last straw is when they say, "Well, he's capable
>of doing the work if he would just pay attention and work in class!"
>Please, tell me something I don't know!!!!!!
Have you stopped to consider that his teacher is just as frustrated as
you are and s/he has 29 *other* children to teach? I'm assuming all
the usual accommodations have been tried, like being seated away from
distractions like the door or windows (I pull the shades down)
reducing the amount of work - giving breaks etc. You have one child
to deal with - but even stilting next to him refocusing, you still
can't get him to do his homework in a reasonable amount of time.
So.... if 1 : 1 doesn't work and you aren't willing to consider having
him evaluated for meds, then what's an alternative? I wonder if you
can make a deal with him and his teacher about completing x problems
in xx time and slowing trying to increase the number completed?
Count your blessings, he's not a behavior problem.
LAH
<sf> wrote in message news:1c41m2dq88rmb2m18...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:16:13 -0600, "LAH" <som...@somewhere.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Nevermind the fact, it takes close to
>>an hour in the morning for him to finally get around to tying his shoes -
>>and then only after numerous reminders (We're talking about a 12 year old
>>here!) In addition, it is a rarity when he is able to complete homework
>>without one of us (Mom or Dad) sitting right beside him to constantly help
>>him refocus. Work that should take only a few minutes can drag out into
>>hours. I must say it really is irritating when some well-intentioned
>>know-it-all starts going on about how it is all a matter of poor
>>discipline - aargh!!! The last straw is when they say, "Well, he's
>>capable
>>of doing the work if he would just pay attention and work in class!"
>>Please, tell me something I don't know!!!!!!
>
> Have you stopped to consider that his teacher is just as frustrated as
> you are and s/he has 29 *other* children to teach?
I've no doubt all his teachers experience frustrations at one time or
another!! In fact I'd be surprised if they didn't.
I'm assuming all
> the usual accommodations have been tried, like being seated away from
> distractions like the door or windows (I pull the shades down)
> reducing the amount of work - giving breaks etc. You have one child
> to deal with - but even stilting next to him refocusing, you still
> can't get him to do his homework in a reasonable amount of time.
> So.... if 1 : 1 doesn't work and you aren't willing to consider having
> him evaluated for meds, then what's an alternative?
I don't know where you got the idea that we haven't considered medication.
Perhaps you are confusing me with the original poster. Ds takes 20mg of
adderall XR once a day. As I've sometimes told his teachers, "You see him
at his best. I see him in the mornings before the medication has taken
affect and in the evenings when it is beginning to wear off." Currently
homework is the biggest issue we have to cope with.
As a rule, I don't say too much about his medication because it is all too
often an open invitation to flamers.
I wonder if you
> can make a deal with him and his teacher about completing x problems
> in xx time and slowing trying to increase the number completed?
>
> Count your blessings, he's not a behavior problem.
Yes, you are right! Socially he gets along very well and for the most part
has a great deal of empathy and enjoys people. As an adult he may be the
one with the lampshade on his head at the company Xmas party.
JeanneP
My oldest son is in 1st grade and has had problems doing/completing his
work in school, and I posted here asking for advice before going to the
parent teacher conference. We planned to brainstorm together about
possible approaches to handling this behavior, and I wanted to make
sure the meeting was friendly and seen as a partnership instead of an
us-versus-them thing, and I wanted to know if anyone had behavioral
approach kinds of ideas.
Update:
My son has only brought home his writing assignment once since the
parent - teacher conference. This time, as always, I sit down with him
and ask him why he didn't do it in class. He usually has a reason
(excuse?), so then we talk about possible solutions to whatever he says
his barrier is. Part of that is to try to let him know that if there's
anything he can do in his control, he should do it, and another part is
to let him know how important this is to his parents and we're trying
to help/support him too. Our conversations go well. This last time he
said he didn't write in his journal because he couldn't think of
anything to write about. I suggested we could make a list of writing
ideas for him to bring to school, and whenever he doesn't know what to
write about he can look at the list. Together, we brainstormed ideas,
and I made the list. He hasn't brought home anything since, and his
teacher has sent home a note thanking me for the list. Her notes home
have changed in tone, with none of the earlier frustration. Yay!
This morning I sent the teacher an email asking how my son is doing,
since I hadn't heard anything for a while. Partly I wanted to make sure
she hadn't given up and put him with the remedial group, as she had
mentioned in the parent teacher conference. She replied that he's doing
"much better" and still needs prompting but he "gets it done in the
end" then she talked about some other aspects of his personality that
she appreciates, and she thinks he is "putting effort into the day."
So... Yay! again... he's doing better, and the teacher is not
frustrated.
I don't know if it's made any difference or if it's coincence, but
we've also made a dietary modification as a result of an article I read
online suggesting if an ADD/ADHD child has exczema then getting more
essential fatty acids may improve their behavior. Dry skin is a problem
for my husband and my sons. So I researched some more to find out what
kinds of foods have essential fatty acids (are they the kinds of foods
my son eats or not?) and learned green leafy plants are rich in those.
Now, my husband won't eat anything green and leafy, and consequently
our kids diets lack that too. Basically anything listed as good sources
of essential fatty acids are not on their menu. Not wanting "too much
of a good thing" I then researched good sources and age appropriate
amounts, and settled on adding a teaspoon of ground flax seed to the
kids breakfast cereal each morning. It has a slightly nutty flavor so
it blends in great with hot cereals. My husband now takes flax seed oil
and fish oil capsules, in the hopes it'll help his exczema, though he
hasn't had much success there. I suspect the effect on the kids is
minimal, but who's to say? I'll continue the flax seed regardless of
behavioral issues because now I know it helps provide something they
otherwise miss in their diet, and it's easy. We can get the flax seed
at any pharmacy store, like Walgreens or Target (it's with the
vitamins). We keep it in the freezer so it won't spoil. We educated the
kids about what it is and why we give it to them, and now they ask for
it every morning. If our son gets school problems again, there's
plenty of safe room for increasing the amount of powdered flax seed and
seeing if that has any effect, and there are a few other dietary things
to try too.
... and I'm looking into creative ways to add green veggies to their
diets, and now have more support from the spouse for these initiatives.
Jeanne
Dave L. Renfro
> Summary for those who can't read previous messages in a thread:
Or you could just give the URL:
http://groups.google.com/group/k12.chat.teacher/browse_frm/thread/737f2775d4377f4f
Dave L. Renfro
Sumbuny
"JeanneP" <jeanne.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165953969.6...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Summary for those who can't read previous messages in a thread:
<G> Thanks for the summary--often they tend to "drop off" the server after
so many days...
Glad to hear that you have found something that works for you guys...and "if
ait ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Hmmm..That's a new one...I have eczema myself (I was diagnosed at first with
"infantile eczema--how do you like that one? <g>)--as well as asthma. One
thing that I have learned is that these two are often together--eczema and
allergies and/or asthma...
A site that is quite helpful is medline--it is a government-run site. The
one dealing with eczema is at http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/eczema.html