The thief on the cross - saved without water baptism
gabriel
saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear
God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed
justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man
hath done nothing amiss.
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt
thou be with me in paradise."
[Luke 23:39-43 KJV]
This particular thief was saved while hanging on his cross. He
was going to heaven. What did He do?
Was He baptized with water? No.
He clearly
[1] repented, realizing he deserved the punishment for his sins
("we indeed justly (are in condemnation); for we receive the due
reward for our deeds") and then,
[2] believed upon Christ to save him, calling on Him to be his
Lord and Savior ("Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
thy kingdom")
And Christ then verified that He would end up in heaven for
obeying the command of God, the leading of God, to repent and put
your trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
He was baptized of the spirit, not of water. Water baptism is a
public profession of your faith after you are saved - water
baptism does not save, including baptism by water as a child.
Those what are trusting in water to save them, or trusting in
their church to save them, or trusting in their catechisms to
save them, or attendance, or good works, or keeping the law, or
remaining sinless, or anything else are not trusting only in what
Christ did on the cross to save them, and are not yet saved, not
yet Christians.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and
in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from
me, ye that work iniquity."
[Matthew 7:21-23 KJV]
The greatest thing any teacher could teach others: the gospel of
truth!
Michael Christ
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f2a7k5t9fvgv27si6...@4ax.com...
That's right, the washing of the Word of God/Truth/Jesus...one and the same.
But many will not receive the truth which goes way beyond just doctrine.
This is why...
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to
the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jesus is not allowed to come into the daily lives of many because they do
not want to be washed and cleaned by the truth and be changed. They prefer
to be parked at bible verses that only give the appearance that they are
okay as they are.
Michael Christ
duke
>"And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
>saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
>But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear
>God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed
>justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man
>hath done nothing amiss.
>And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
>thy kingdom.
>And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt
>thou be with me in paradise."
>[Luke 23:39-43 KJV]
>
>This particular thief was saved while hanging on his cross. He
>was going to heaven. What did He do?
>
>Was He baptized with water? No.
>
>He clearly
Was born under the old covenant. Look at all the souls that were raised to new
life that had died in God's friendship but never knew or heard of Christ at the
moment the veil was split.
>[1] repented, realizing he deserved the punishment for his sins
>("we indeed justly (are in condemnation); for we receive the due
>reward for our deeds") and then,
>[2] believed upon Christ to save him, calling on Him to be his
>Lord and Savior ("Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
>thy kingdom")
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
gabriel
wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:12:32 -0500, gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
> >saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
> >But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear
> >God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed
> >justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man
> >hath done nothing amiss.
> >And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
> >thy kingdom.
> >And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt
> >thou be with me in paradise."
> >[Luke 23:39-43 KJV]
> >
> >This particular thief was saved while hanging on his cross. He
> >was going to heaven. What did He do?
> >
> >Was He baptized with water? No.
> >
> >He clearly
>
> Was born under the old covenant. Look at all the souls that were raised to new
> life that had died in God's friendship but never knew or heard of Christ at the
> moment the veil was split.
Yes, in the old covenant, they never knew or heard of Jesus
Christ (but they knew the messiah was coming).
The thief had Christ right next to Him.
The thief knew Jesus Christ was the Son of God and had the power
from God to save the lost:
And he (the thief) said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember
me when thou comest into thy kingdom."
So even by your own description of old covenant: people not
knowing or hearing of Christ - the thief knew him and clearly
heard of Him and called on Him as Lord and Savior after
repenting, and he was saved without being baptized with water.
Bob LeChevalier
>This particular thief was saved while hanging on his cross. He
>was going to heaven. What did He do?
>
>Was He baptized with water? No.
...
>The greatest thing any teacher could teach others: the gospel of
>truth!
[theological gobbledy-gook deleted]
1) this has nothing at all to do with k12 teachers
2) this sort of debate is the kind of thing that has led Christians to
split into a zillion different denominations. Your argument, whether
YOU think it is convincing will NOT convince those who use different
arguments for alternative positions. The average lay person may or
may not know the alternative arguments, because most people don't
study theology. Indeed most people don't give a god damn about
theology, and wish your ilk would shut up about it.
lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
duke
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:08:16 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:12:32 -0500, gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
>> >saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
>> >But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear
>> >God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed
>> >justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man
>> >hath done nothing amiss.
>> >And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
>> >thy kingdom.
>> >And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt
>> >thou be with me in paradise."
>> >[Luke 23:39-43 KJV]
>> >
>> >This particular thief was saved while hanging on his cross. He
>> >was going to heaven. What did He do?
>> >
>> >Was He baptized with water? No.
>> >
>> >He clearly
>>
>> Was born under the old covenant. Look at all the souls that were raised to new
>> life that had died in God's friendship but never knew or heard of Christ at the
>> moment the veil was split.
>
>Yes, in the old covenant, they never knew or heard of Jesus
>Christ (but they knew the messiah was coming).
Yes, as a warrior king.
>The thief had Christ right next to Him.
>The thief knew Jesus Christ was the Son of God and had the power
>from God to save the lost:
He did. How did he know that?
> And he (the thief) said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember
> me when thou comest into thy kingdom."
>So even by your own description of old covenant: people not
>knowing or hearing of Christ - the thief knew him and clearly
>heard of Him and called on Him as Lord and Savior after
>repenting,
I believe. But what about all the souls that rose to new life that died before
the cross?
> and he was saved without being baptized with water.
There are 3 baptisms - water, spirit, and desire/fire. The third one is what
the thief showed.
gabriel
wrote:
Because God opened his eyes. And the point is he did know that,
and he was saved without being baptized by water.
pyotr filipivich
about Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:01:13 -0500 did write/type or cause to
appear in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
So remember folks, if you are being tortured to death for your
crimes, it is possible to be enlightened, and be saved, all without
water baptism, catechism classes, the sinner's prayer or any of those
other means. Just turn to the other prisoner being executed and say
"Remember me, o lord, when you come into your kingdom."
Of curse, it does behoove you to be crucified next to the Real
Messiah(tm). Because if the Son of God, the Word incarnate, says
"you're in", you're in. Really, it is all about who you know. Well,
actually, more along the lines of"who knows you".
-
pyotr filipivich
Monotheism, someone has said, offers two simple axioms:
1) There is a God.
2) It's not you.