Just be good? Schools need to teach more than that.
gabriel
�Just be good�
Being �good� can get you far in our world. Good behavior wins
praise, commuted jail terms, and tangible rewards. Good deeds net
accolades and often tax benefits. Good things come to those who
wait, who do good for others, who spread good �karma.� And we
celebrate �goodness� the most during this time of year.
But what if our �good� deeds are just a mask for the bad things
we hide inside?
�For goodness� sake�
Atheists tell us that we should be good for goodness sake, that
people can be good without God. But they don�t tell us how they
know or how they measure what is �good.�
The problem with the world�s understanding of �goodness� is that
there�s no foundation, no solid definition. We all have our own
ideas about what�s acceptable and what�s not or what deserves
praise and what doesn�t. In fact, one person may condemn what
another person sees as �for the greater good.�
The truth is that �being good� is not good enough. In fact, our
own good deeds are nothing more than filthy rags we hope will
cover our faults and failures.
For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our
righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. (Isaiah 64:6)
But you don�t have to make your own way�you don�t have to hope
that you�re doing enough.
Who is good?
A little over 2,000 years ago, something truly good
happened�something that is like nothing else before or since. You
may have heard the story before, but have you really listened?
Jesus came to earth because He knew that our own attempts at
being good would never get us anywhere. God had given us laws to
obey and we completely failed to keep them�we have sinned against
a holy God. He saw us struggling�and He came to struggle right
alongside us, to know what it�s like to be human. And the amazing
part is that He lived a perfect life never sinning by violating
any of God�s laws. He understood goodness because He is the
living definition.
But He didn�t do that to rub it in or to make us feel bad. He
lived a perfect life so that He could show us the way, could make
us right with our Creator. God�s penalty for sin is death, but
Christ has freed us from the bondage of death by dying on the
Cross as a substitute for us. He took the guilt and showed us how
empty �being good� is without Him.
No one is good�except God alone. (Luke 18:19)
Your own good deeds, they�ll never get you anywhere, never make
you free of your sin debt. But Jesus Christ came to earth, died
as a substitute, and rose to life to do something we couldn�t do
ourselves: He gave us new life, new hope, new birth.
If you�ve never experienced this freedom, you can do so right
where you are. Ask God to forgive your sins against Him in the
past and believe that Christ came to take the penalty for your
disobedience and show you what goodness is all about.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have
everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to
condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
(John 3:16�17)
Bob LeChevalier
>Being �good� can get you far in our world. Good behavior wins
>praise, commuted jail terms, and tangible rewards. Good deeds net
>accolades and often tax benefits. Good things come to those who
>wait, who do good for others, who spread good �karma.� And we
>celebrate �goodness� the most during this time of year.
Only people of certain religious beliefs.
>But what if our �good� deeds are just a mask for the bad things
>we hide inside?
So what? If it is too bothersome, we can go see a shrink. Otherwise,
what we hide in side in none of anyone else's business.
>Atheists tell us that we should be good for goodness sake,
Atheists tell us no such thing.
>that people can be good without God.
That of course is obvious.
>But they don�t tell us how they know or how they measure what is �good.�
It is none of anyone's business but their own.
>The problem with the world�s understanding of �goodness� is that
>there�s no foundation, no solid definition.
So what? Why does the world need to understand "goodness"?
>We all have our own ideas about what�s acceptable
Good for us.
>and what�s not or what deserves praise and what doesn�t.
gain, good for us.
>In fact, one person may condemn what
>another person sees as �for the greater good.�
That is what "freedom" is all about.
Now let us review your claim in detail:
<>Being �good� can get you far in our world.
The word is "successful" not "good". Though most people consider
"success" to be "good"
>Good behavior wins praise
from those who consider the behavior to be good.
>commuted jail terms,
comes from obeying the rules of the jailor, whether the rules are good
or not.
>and tangible rewards
come from sound investments.
>Good deeds net accolades
from those who consider the deeds to be good.
>and often tax benefits
Only if the law specifies that the behaviors warrant tax benefits. If
the law isn't good, then one can get tax benefits from doing evil. But
the people who write the laws try to avoid that.
>Good things come to those who wait,
So do bad things."The early bird gets the word" and all that.
>who do good for others,
So do bad things.
>who spread good �karma.�
A word from a different religion. They are merely following the rules
of their religion.
>And we celebrate �goodness� the most during this time of year.
I dunno about you, but I celebrate goodness whenever I run into it.
The Jerry Lewis telethon is pretty good, and it takes place on Labor
Day, which of course itself celebrates the goodness of the labor
movement.
Well, you seems to have summarized that the word "good" has multiple
definitions, and which of them is meant depends on the context and the
user of the word. This is true of every word in every human language,
but especially true of the word "good" which has an especially long
set of definitions, according to any "good" dictionary:
<Main Entry: good
<Function: adjective
<1 a (1) : of a favorable character or tendency <good news>
< (2) : bountiful, fertile <good land>
< (3) : handsome, attractive <good looks>
< b (1) : suitable, fit <good to eat>
< (2) : free from injury or disease <one good arm>
< (3) : not depreciated <bad money drives out good>
< (4) : commercially sound <a good risk>
< (5) : that can be relied on <good for another year> <good for a hundred dollars> <always good for a laugh>
< (6) : profitable, advantageous <made a very good deal>
< c (1) : agreeable, pleasant <had a good time>
< (2) : salutary, wholesome <good for a cold>
< (3) : amusing, clever <a good joke>
< d (1) : of a noticeably large size or quantity : considerable <won by a good margin> <a good bit of the time>
< (2) : full <waited a good hour>
< (3) �used as an intensive <a good many of us>
< e (1) : well-founded, cogent <good reasons>
< (2) : true <holds good for society at large>
< (3) : deserving of respect : honorable <in good standing>
< (4) : legally valid or effectual <good title>
< f (1) : adequate, satisfactory <good care> �often used in faint praise <his serve is only good � Frank Deford>
< (2) : conforming to a standard <good English>
< (3) : choice, discriminating <good taste>
< (4) : containing less fat and being less tender than higher grades �used of meat and especially of beef
<2 a (1) : virtuous, right, commendable <a good person> <good conduct>
< (2) : kind, benevolent <good intentions>
< b : upper-class <a good family>
< c : competent, skillful <a good doctor>
< d (1) : loyal <a good party man> <a good Catholic>
< (2) : close <a good friend> e : free from infirmity or sorrow <I feel good>
<
<� good�ish \'gu?-dish\ adjective
<
<� as good as : in effect : virtually <as good as dead>
<
<� as good as gold 1 : of the highest worth or reliability <his promise is as good as gold>
<2 : well-behaved <the child was as good as gold>
<
<Main Entry: 2good
<Function: noun
<1 a : something that is good
< b (1) : something conforming to the moral order of the universe
< (2) : praiseworthy character : goodness
< c : a good element or portion
<2 a : advancement of prosperity or well-being <the good of the community> <it's for your own good>
< b : something useful or beneficial <it's no good trying>
<3 a : something that has economic utility or satisfies an economic want
< b plural : personal property having intrinsic value but usually excluding money, securities, and negotiable instruments
< c plural : cloth
< d plural : something manufactured or produced for sale : wares, merchandise <canned goods>
< e plural British : freight
<4 : good persons �used with the
<5 plural a : the qualities required to achieve an end
< b : proof of wrongdoing <didn't have the goods on him � T. G. Cooke>
<
<� for good also for good and all : forever, permanently
<
<� in good with : in a favored position with
<
<� to the good 1 : for the best : beneficial <efforts to restrict credit were all to the good � Time>
<2 : in a position of net gain or profit <wound up $10 to the good>
<
<Main Entry: 3good
<Function: adverb
<1 : well <he showed me how good I was doing � Herbert Gold>
<2 �used as an intensive <a good long time>
[note that the usage of "good" as an adverb is considered by many to
be "double plus ungood"]
>The truth is that �being good� is not good enough.
It is for most of us.
>Who is good?
Depends on which definition one chooses to use.
And all of them are valid (i.e. good) definitions.
>A little over 2,000 years ago, something truly good happened
According to some people. Others don't think so.
>Jesus came to earth because He knew that our own attempts at
>being good would never get us anywhere.
But as you said above, it "can get you far in this world". So you
must disagree with Jesus.
>God had given us laws to obey
In this country, the only laws that count, are those passed by our
elected representatives. We choose our own laws. And our own gods.
"Obedience" is not a virtue, except in children, soldiers, and sheep.
>He understood goodness because He is the living definition.
There are many definitions, as shown above. Human word: human
definition.
>No one is good�except God alone.
The dictionary says otherwise.
lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
Michael Christ
Try not to sin regularly, just be good and sin only 'occasionally'.
You see?
The Lord does.
Michael Christ
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bnecj5d40mmdta155...@4ax.com...
> www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/features/good-for-goodness-sake
>
> "Just be good"
>
> Being "good" can get you far in our world. Good behavior wins
> praise, commuted jail terms, and tangible rewards. Good deeds net
> accolades and often tax benefits. Good things come to those who
> wait, who do good for others, who spread good "karma." And we
> celebrate "goodness" the most during this time of year.
>
> But what if our "good" deeds are just a mask for the bad things
> we hide inside?
>
> "For goodness' sake"
>
> Atheists tell us that we should be good for goodness sake, that
> people can be good without God. But they don't tell us how they
> know or how they measure what is "good."
>
> The problem with the world's understanding of "goodness" is that
> there's no foundation, no solid definition. We all have our own
> ideas about what's acceptable and what's not or what deserves
> praise and what doesn't. In fact, one person may condemn what
> another person sees as "for the greater good."
>
> The truth is that "being good" is not good enough. In fact, our
> own good deeds are nothing more than filthy rags we hope will
> cover our faults and failures.
>
> For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our
> righteous deeds are like a filthy garment. (Isaiah 64:6)
>
> But you don't have to make your own way-you don't have to hope
> that you're doing enough.
>
> Who is good?
>
> A little over 2,000 years ago, something truly good
> happened-something that is like nothing else before or since. You
> may have heard the story before, but have you really listened?
>
> Jesus came to earth because He knew that our own attempts at
> being good would never get us anywhere. God had given us laws to
> obey and we completely failed to keep them-we have sinned against
> a holy God. He saw us struggling-and He came to struggle right
> alongside us, to know what it's like to be human. And the amazing
> part is that He lived a perfect life never sinning by violating
> any of God's laws. He understood goodness because He is the
> living definition.
>
> But He didn't do that to rub it in or to make us feel bad. He
> lived a perfect life so that He could show us the way, could make
> us right with our Creator. God's penalty for sin is death, but
> Christ has freed us from the bondage of death by dying on the
> Cross as a substitute for us. He took the guilt and showed us how
> empty "being good" is without Him.
>
> No one is good-except God alone. (Luke 18:19)
> Your own good deeds, they'll never get you anywhere, never make
> you free of your sin debt. But Jesus Christ came to earth, died
> as a substitute, and rose to life to do something we couldn't do
> ourselves: He gave us new life, new hope, new birth.
>
> If you've never experienced this freedom, you can do so right
> where you are. Ask God to forgive your sins against Him in the
> past and believe that Christ came to take the penalty for your
> disobedience and show you what goodness is all about.
>
> For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
> that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have
> everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to
> condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
> (John 3:16-17)
gabriel
<jesus...@father.com> wrote:
> But that is your religion, Gabriel.
>
> Try not to sin regularly, just be good and sin only 'occasionally'.
>
> You see?
>
> The Lord does.
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:17:35 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> [..]
> freedom in the Spirit is not bound by your dickhead sinner perceptions of what is right
> and what is wrong.
> [..]
> you are a self-righteous finger pointing idiot
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:16:00 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>
> You must think the Lord is a complete blind dickhead.
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 04:17:35 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>
> What kind of bullshit is that??!!
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:35:30 -0800 (PST), Michael Christ
<michaelm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is God a complete blind dickhead?
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:58:22 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> Heard this before but maybe you haven't...
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> A man and his ever-nagging wife went on vacation to Jerusalem. While they
> were there, the wife passed away.
>
> The undertaker told the husband, "You can have her shipped home for $5000,
> or you can bury her here, in the Holy Land, for $150."
>
> The man thought about it and told him he would just have her shipped home.
>
> The undertaker asked, "Why would you spend $5000 to ship your wife home,
> when it would be wonderful to be buried here and you would spend only $150?"
>
> The man replied, "A long time ago a man died here, was buried here, and
> three days later he rose from the dead. I just can't take that chance."
>
>
>
> :-).
>
> Michael Christ
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:03:40 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> [..]
> Holiness, righteousness and purity, without which a man will never be with
> God...has it registered yet? Or, are you just going to ignore it like an
> idiot while glorying in your awesome theological correctness?
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:26:35 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> ..
> You walk as though God is a blind complete dickhead.
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:40:03 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> Those who are called need the Bible, but those who are chosen don't need it
> anymore because they walk in the Spirit with the Lord.
>
> I remember when the Lord began my chastening, He took my Bible away from me,
> twice in fact.
>
> I had my KJV, the version He gave me as the best there was, and for an
> unexplained reason at the time, it just vanished.
>
> About 3 months later I was mucking around in the garage and lo and behold it
> turned up on top of a clothes cabinet.
>
> Anyway, it went missing again almost straight away, and to this day I never
> knew what happened to it.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:11:02 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<jesus...@father.com> wrote:
> Randy wrote:
> > You're the one who claims you don't have sin
>
> ...I have never claimed to be without sin; you can't produce one quote.
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:41:05 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>
> You fool.
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:31:53 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<jesus...@father.com> wrote:
> I have had first hand experience of her 'jesus is lord love'.
>
> I think I'd prefer a rough leaf pineapple up my butt.
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 00:41:05 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> You fool.
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 02:29:18 GMT, "Michael Christ"
> You are a fraud
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:24:03 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> You eat, shit and die. Goodbye and end of story, an abyss of 'no point' and
> nothingness, now and later.
>
> Dead man walking, buddy.
>
> Rock...brick...duck...you.
>
> You're the myth believer, but more than that you are just a plain fool.
Michael Christ
Try to be good and sin only 'occasionally'. Do you see the vanity??
It flies in the face of everything Jesus ever taught.
Michael Christ
PS Surely you see something by now but choose defiance.
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:plcfj5l6da9urn1gq...@4ax.com...
Michael Christ
you??
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth
is not in us.
On the contrary, according to your ways, it is fixed in cement and you are
bound to it for life. You have made it a stagnant nail in the coffin for
yourself, and so it is.
If you are confident enough to judge others before a Holy God, then you are
claiming you have no sin.
Do you even read your Bible you love to quote with your heart?? Or has it
waxed cold??
John 8:3-11, Matthew 7:1-5
Michael Christ
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:plcfj5l6da9urn1gq...@4ax.com...
Andrew W
> www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/features/good-for-goodness-sake
>
> "Just be good"
>
> Being "good" can get you far in our world. Good behavior wins
> praise, commuted jail terms, and tangible rewards. Good deeds net
> accolades and often tax benefits. Good things come to those who
> wait, who do good for others, who spread good "karma." And we
> celebrate "goodness" the most during this time of year.
>
> But what if our "good" deeds are just a mask for the bad things
> we hide inside?
>
> "For goodness' sake"
>
> Atheists tell us that we should be good for goodness sake, that
> people can be good without God. But they don't tell us how they
> know or how they measure what is "good."
>
That's easy.
Good is when you make life better for another, or generally promote
co-operation and harmony in a society.
Unless you are intellectually disadvantaged you will see when you are
helping someone or hurting them.
I must now conclude that religious believers walk around with their eyes
closed and their brains turned off to not be able to figure out something as
simple and observable as what is 'good', and have to have a book tell them.
Michael Christ
"Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:hh8pn6$no2$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
We can only be thankful then that we have someone good around like you to
show us the way.
Michael Christ
dolf
perhaps one of the reasons I don't feollowship with them.
A case in point is the notion of WEEKS {eg. 70 weeks} and DAYS {eg. 2300
days} as an artifact of Jubilee chronology of 24 x 7 x 13 = 2184 days or
6D imposes such significant questions about the origins of Seventh-day
Adventists, that you'd have to conclude they are deluded.
Andrew W
Oh, don't follow me, just use your brain. That's what I did.
That's what its for and why it was given to us.
I can't figure out why religious people always need to follow someone or
something, because this usually leads to the blind following the blind.
I guess some people were just born with the following (and worshipping)
gene.
dolf
A case in point is the notion of WEEKS {eg. 70 weeks} and DAYS {eg. 2300
days} as an artifact of Jubilee chronology of 24 x 7 x 13 = 2184 days or
6D imposes such significant questions about the origins of Seventh-day
Adventists, that you'd have to conclude they are deluded.
This goes to the very heart and eschatology of the organisation and
sandly the Book of Jubilees although found amongst the dead sea scrolls,
was extant and translated in the time Adventist Church began.
The error in their belief, is so significant that a failure to address
it creates its own credibility problem.
On 28/12/09 10:13 AM, Andrew W wrote:
gabriel
<jesus...@father.com> wrote:
> But that is your religion, Gabriel.
>
> Try not to sin regularly, just be good and sin only 'occasionally'.
>
> You see?
>
> The Lord does.
Unfortunately, that's not what I'm saying at all. I've explained
it many times, but you always delete the scripture, along with
what I'm actually saying, then make up something I didn't say,
and judge me for that instead. =(
Meanwhile you've admitted you have not remained perfectly sinless
since being saved, so not sure why you try to claim a saved
person will be perfectly sinless the rest of his or her life .. ?
Michael Christ
>> But that is your religion, Gabriel.
>>
>> Try not to sin regularly, just be good and sin only 'occasionally'.
>>
>> You see?
>>
>> The Lord does.
Gabriel wrote:
> Unfortunately, that's not what I'm saying at all. I've explained
> it many times, but you always delete the scripture, along with
> what I'm actually saying, then make up something I didn't say,
I delete, on occasion, the scripture you quote to keep you on track because
you try to use them to justify your sin.
I do not make up something you didn't say. That little pastime is in the
hands of you and your ilk. Or if you prefer, quote me doing that...y'know,
its called being honest. Baptists talk about being honest don't they, well
you go one better, be a doer.
Gabriel wrote:
> Meanwhile you've admitted you have not remained perfectly sinless
> since being saved, so not sure why you try to claim a saved
> person will be perfectly sinless the rest of his or her life .. ?
Between you and Randy and Vera you all have claimed I have said this and
said that, and you make opposing claims.
None of you can produce a direct quote, you can only hypothesize and
paraphrase and accuse according to your sinful nature. See how the Lord
covers me?? :-).
Michael Christ said and I quote: "I........................". That would
be the honesty and integrity way to make a claim against me in your sin.
:-).
Anyway, what habitual 'occasional' sin have you allowed for yourself today??
Or how are you going to try and justify your sin today??
Michael Christ
PS You are a bunch of blind guides.
Michael Christ
You can bet your life on your brain if you want to.
Michael Christ
Andrew W
Who's betting? In this world, thinking is one of the main resources we
have. Thinking and questioning lead to wisdom and the truth.
You have to seek the truth to find it. Do you not?
If you want to take a chance and just put all your faith in one religion in
a world of deceptive religions then I can't stop you.
Michael Christ
Andrew W wrote:
> Who's betting? In this world, thinking is one of the main resources we
> have. Thinking and questioning lead to wisdom and the truth.
> You have to seek the truth to find it. Do you not?
> If you want to take a chance and just put all your faith in one religion
> in a world of deceptive religions then I can't stop you.
Only One ever died for you at the enormous expense of Himself.
And if you want to put your faith in your brain in a world full of truth
about the testimony of the reality of the only one true God, then I can't
stop you.
As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am set.
Michael Christ
Andrew W
news:VG9_m.65297$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Now lets stop for a minute. How do you know that the above interpretation
and understanding of the ancient event is the absolute correct one ?
Who told you it was?
>
> And if you want to put your faith in your brain in a world full of truth
> about the testimony of the reality of the only one true God, then I can't
> stop you.
>
> As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am set.
>
I'm not putting my faith in my brain. I'm using all the faculties and
resources available to me to find out the truth, as Jesus said we must. He
said we must leave no stone unturned.
Why have you assumed that this world is 'full of truth'? Who told you that?
We are in a world of deception. Its been like that from day one with the
alleged serpent in the tree. In fact now its even worse than that. You can't
just put faith in something and throw away the key. That's virtual suicide
in a world like this.
Seek the truth.
Michael Christ
He did through His Spirit to my spirit.
>>
>> And if you want to put your faith in your brain in a world full of truth
>> about the testimony of the reality of the only one true God, then I can't
>> stop you.
>>
>
>> As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am set.
>>
>
> I'm not putting my faith in my brain. I'm using all the faculties and
> resources available to me to find out the truth, as Jesus said we must. He
> said we must leave no stone unturned.
> Why have you assumed that this world is 'full of truth'? Who told you
> that?
Look around, take your pick, from the ant to the eagle in the sky, from a
mouse to man, from cell to universe, all design, not stone, brick, duck,
you.
It is you that does not see the truth.
> We are in a world of deception. Its been like that from day one with the
> alleged serpent in the tree. In fact now its even worse than that. You
> can't just put faith in something and throw away the key. That's virtual
> suicide in a world like this.
> Seek the truth.
Set mean set in my book.
I found the truth in the world you describe. You have not. Jesus is not
who men say He is, He is not a facsimile of their ways.
You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart.
Michael Christ
Andrew W
>
> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:hhbb3a$3oa$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Michael Christ" <jesus...@father.com> wrote in message
>> news:VG9_m.65297$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Andrew W" <removethi...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:hh9vbv$7dc$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> Andrew W wrote:
>>>> Who's betting? In this world, thinking is one of the main resources we
>>>> have. Thinking and questioning lead to wisdom and the truth.
>>>> You have to seek the truth to find it. Do you not?
>>>> If you want to take a chance and just put all your faith in one
>>>> religion in a world of deceptive religions then I can't stop you.
>>>
>>> Only One ever died for you at the enormous expense of Himself.
>>>
>>
>> Now lets stop for a minute. How do you know that the above interpretation
>> and understanding of the ancient event is the absolute correct one ?
>> Who told you it was?
>
> He did through His Spirit to my spirit.
>
Who did? You heard a voice in your head?
>>
>>> As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am set.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not putting my faith in my brain. I'm using all the faculties and
>> resources available to me to find out the truth, as Jesus said we must.
>> He said we must leave no stone unturned.
>> Why have you assumed that this world is 'full of truth'? Who told you
>> that?
>
> Look around, take your pick, from the ant to the eagle in the sky, from a
> mouse to man, from cell to universe, all design, not stone, brick, duck,
> you.
>
> It is you that does not see the truth.
>
You are talking about nature. I agree with you there.
But is that where you got your beliefs about God? Not the Christian Bible?
>
>> We are in a world of deception. Its been like that from day one with the
>> alleged serpent in the tree. In fact now its even worse than that. You
>> can't just put faith in something and throw away the key. That's virtual
>> suicide in a world like this.
>> Seek the truth.
>
> Set mean set in my book.
>
Rephrase please.
>
> I found the truth in the world you describe. You have not. Jesus is not
> who men say He is, He is not a facsimile of their ways.
>
You don't know what I have found.
If you believe that Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins
like most other Christians then you have gotten it wrong like them.
Do you not believe that?
>
> You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart.
>
Are you psychic now are you?
You don't know anything about me so don't pretend you do.
Michael Christ
>Only One ever died for you at the enormous expense of Himself.
Andrew wrote:
>Now lets stop for a minute. How do you know that the above interpretation
>and understanding of the ancient event is the absolute correct one ?
>Who told you it was?
Michael Christ wrote:
>> He did through His Spirit to my spirit.
Andrew wrote:
> Who did? You heard a voice in your head?
Its a knowing of the heart, commonly understood as revelation.
Like you would feel when you see your mother in a crowd. You know it is
her...its the truth.
Michael Christ wrote:
>As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am set.
Andrew wrote:
>I'm not putting my faith in my brain. I'm using all the faculties and
>resources available to me to find out the truth, as Jesus said we must. He
>said we must leave no stone unturned.
>Why have you assumed that this world is 'full of truth'? Who told you
>that?
Michael Christ wrote:
>Look around, take your pick, from the ant to the eagle in the sky, from a
>mouse to man, from cell to universe, all design, not stone, brick, duck,
>you.
>It is you that does not see the truth.
Andrew wrote:
> You are talking about nature. I agree with you there.
> But is that where you got your beliefs about God? Not the Christian
> Bible?
It is a culmination of many things, yes nature, yes the Christian Bible, yes
my place in the world, purpose, hope, life, but essentially it is the
contact/connection made with Him in the Spirit of Truth. True knowledge,
understanding, wisdom is not found in man, it is found in the goodness of
God to bring it into your life.
Do you really need to be told about man destroying the earth not to mention
war upon war upon war upon war?? Your info you have in your head is of
man...wrong info, and you can see the fruits no matter how optimistic you
want to be.
The religion you see is of man also.
You don't see my religion, I am different.
Andrew wrote:
>We are in a world of deception. Its been like that from day one with the
>alleged serpent in the tree. In fact now its even worse than that. You
>can't just put faith in something and throw away the key. That's virtual
>suicide in a world like this.
>Seek the truth.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Set means set in my book.
Andrew wrote:
> Rephrase please.
You are telling me to seek the truth. I have found the truth, it has been
decided upon. In other words, I am set.
I previously said, 'As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am
set.'
Set means set in my book.
Ever used Silicone? Once it sets it sets, there is no going back.
Michael Christ wrote:
>I found the truth in the world you describe. You have not. Jesus is not
>> who men say He is, He is not a facsimile of their ways.
Andrew wrote:
> You don't know what I have found.
If you haven't found Jesus, you are lost...in every possible way. That is
knowledge, understanding and wisdom from above...God.
Andrew wrote:
> If you believe that Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for our
> sins like most other Christians then you have gotten it wrong like them.
Why is that wrong? Because you don't believe? Because you say so??
Because they say they believe and don't??
Andrew wrote:
> Do you not believe that?
I believe in Jesus Christ.
Michael Christ wrote:
>You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart.
Andrew wrote:
> Are you psychic now are you?
Of course, life in God goes outside the sphere of physical science.
Andrew wrote:
> You don't know anything about me so don't pretend you do.
God knows everything about you, and He shows me things outside the sphere of
your beliefs or understanding.
You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart. That is reality.
Michael Christ
PS Try to be different and put some order into your reply like I have done.
Andrew W
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> He did through His Spirit to my spirit.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Who did? You heard a voice in your head?
>
> Its a knowing of the heart, commonly understood as revelation.
>
> Like you would feel when you see your mother in a crowd. You know it is
> her...its the truth.
>
Like the knowing that Jim Jones and others had that God wants a group of
people to take poison etc?
Like the knowing that people have in mental asylums that they are Napoleon
or Jesus reincarnated?
You have to be careful and really look into what you feel you know in this
world.
Did you make an effort to actually research what you 'feel' and 'know' is
true?
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> You are talking about nature. I agree with you there.
>> But is that where you got your beliefs about God? Not the Christian
>> Bible?
>
> It is a culmination of many things, yes nature, yes the Christian Bible,
> yes my place in the world, purpose, hope, life, but essentially it is the
> contact/connection made with Him in the Spirit of Truth. True knowledge,
> understanding, wisdom is not found in man, it is found in the goodness of
> God to bring it into your life.
>
> Do you really need to be told about man destroying the earth not to
> mention war upon war upon war upon war?? Your info you have in your head
> is of man...wrong info, and you can see the fruits no matter how
> optimistic you want to be.
>
> The religion you see is of man also.
>
> You don't see my religion, I am different.
>
How much of the Bible do you believe is true and inspired?
That will determine how different you are from the rest.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>>We are in a world of deception. Its been like that from day one with the
>>alleged serpent in the tree. In fact now its even worse than that. You
>>can't just put faith in something and throw away the key. That's virtual
>>suicide in a world like this.
>>Seek the truth.
>
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> Set means set in my book.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Rephrase please.
>
> You are telling me to seek the truth. I have found the truth, it has been
> decided upon. In other words, I am set.
>
> I previously said, 'As for me, lock the door and throw away the key, I am
> set.'
>
> Set means set in my book.
>
> Ever used Silicone? Once it sets it sets, there is no going back.
>
Life is about constantly searching for higher truths and evolving yourself
and your spirit.
Our learning about creation never stops and should never stop.
If you've stopped gaining higher and higher truths then you have stopped
spiritually evolving.
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>I found the truth in the world you describe. You have not. Jesus is not
>>> who men say He is, He is not a facsimile of their ways.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> You don't know what I have found.
>
> If you haven't found Jesus, you are lost...in every possible way. That is
> knowledge, understanding and wisdom from above...God.
>
I *have* found Christ. And along the way I (and many others) found that
Christianity got many things wrong about Christ, so if you haven't realised
that then you have not yet found the true path to the light that Christ was
really showing.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> If you believe that Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for our
>> sins like most other Christians then you have gotten it wrong like them.
>
> Why is that wrong? Because you don't believe? Because you say so??
> Because they say they believe and don't??
>
I have discovered it through serious critical study and research on
spiritual matters over many years, and I'm not the only one.
Everyone who has made this effort has made these same discoveries, that
Christianity has misunderstood Christ in profound ways.
It is now well known in the new age movement and other spiritual sectors.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Do you not believe that?
>
> I believe in Jesus Christ.
>
If you have obtained your info about Jesus Christ from the Christian Bible
then you still believe in a distorted version of him.
If you simply believe that he's a saviour like most others, instead of a way
shower and teacher then you still have way to go in your spiritual
development.
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Are you psychic now are you?
>
> Of course, life in God goes outside the sphere of physical science.
>
So tell me about some of my beliefs then.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> You don't know anything about me so don't pretend you do.
>
> God knows everything about you, and He shows me things outside the sphere
> of your beliefs or understanding.
>
> You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart. That is
> reality.
>
Elaborate on this please.
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
>
> PS Try to be different and put some order into your reply like I have
> done.
>
Describe what's wrong with my replies.
Michael Christ
anything if you like.
Michael Christ wrote:
>He did through His Spirit to my spirit.
Andrew wrote:
>Who did? You heard a voice in your head?
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Its a knowing of the heart, commonly understood as revelation.
>> Like you would feel when you see your mother in a crowd. You know it is
>> her...its the truth.
Andrew wrote:
> Like the knowing that Jim Jones and others had that God wants a group of
> people to take poison etc?
No.
One bad apple does not make every apple ever produced bad.
Seeing your mother in a crowd is a bit different to mass suicide don't you
think?
Do you want a sensible conversation or what??
Andrew wrote:
> Like the knowing that people have in mental asylums that they are Napoleon
> or Jesus reincarnated?
> You have to be careful and really look into what you feel you know in this
> world.
> Did you make an effort to actually research what you 'feel' and 'know' is
> true?
I only wear underpants on my head once a week on a Monday, the rest I simply
eat them for lunch.
(snip)
Michael Christ wrote:
>You don't see my religion, I am different.
Andrew wrote:
> How much of the Bible do you believe is true and inspired?
> That will determine how different you are from the rest.
I saw what I was shown. Now I don't need a bible.
A bible is for those who don't believe, they are learning to.
(snip)
Andrew wrote:
> Life is about constantly searching for higher truths and evolving yourself
> and your spirit.
> Our learning about creation never stops and should never stop.
> If you've stopped gaining higher and higher truths then you have stopped
> spiritually evolving.
The Lord is Someone to be experienced not Someone to be learned. So from
that perspective, yes, the experience goes on and on...like in the theme
song from the Titanic.
Michael Christ wrote:
>I found the truth in the world you describe. You have not. Jesus is not
>who men say He is, He is not a facsimile of their ways.
Andrew wrote:
>You don't know what I have found.
Michael Christ wrote:
>If you haven't found Jesus, you are lost...in every possible way. That is
>knowledge, understanding and wisdom from above...God.
Andrew wrote:
> I *have* found Christ. And along the way I (and many others) found that
> Christianity got many things wrong about Christ, so if you haven't
> realised that then you have not yet found the true path to the light that
> Christ was really showing.
Oh really.
I don't look to modern day christianity as a guide.
Andrew wrote:
>If you believe that Christ died on the cross to pay the penalty for our
>sins like most other Christians then you have gotten it wrong like them.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Why is that wrong? Because you don't believe? Because you say so??
>> Because they say they believe and don't??
Andrew wrote:
> I have discovered it through serious critical study and research on
> spiritual matters over many years, and I'm not the only one.
> Everyone who has made this effort has made these same discoveries, that
> Christianity has misunderstood Christ in profound ways.
> It is now well known in the new age movement and other spiritual sectors.
You haven't said anything, just made a statement.
Andrew wrote:
>Do you not believe that?
Michael Christ wrote:
>I believe in Jesus Christ.
Andrew wrote:
> If you have obtained your info about Jesus Christ from the Christian Bible
> then you still believe in a distorted version of him.
I spoke on this earlier.
Andrew wrote:
> If you simply believe that he's a saviour like most others, instead of a
> way shower and teacher then you still have way to go in your spiritual
> development.
Oh really.
It is about Who and What He is, not about His job.
Michael Christ wrote:
>You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart.
Andrew wrote:
>Are you psychic now are you?
Michael Christ wrote:
>Of course, life in God goes outside the sphere of physical science.
Andrew wrote:
> So tell me about some of my beliefs then.
As the Lord reveals, then sure.
Andrew wrote:
>You don't know anything about me so don't pretend you do.
Michael Christ wrote:
>God knows everything about you, and He shows me things outside the sphere
>of your beliefs or understanding.
>You have left one stone unturned, it is called your heart. That is
>reality.
Andrew wrote:
> Elaborate on this please.
You need to fall in love, Andrew.
Michael Christ wrote:
>PS Try to be different and put some order into your reply like I have done.
Andrew wrote:
> Describe what's wrong with my replies.
I dislike the way conversations go when people just hit reply instead of
going to the trouble of clearly indentifying who said what. It only has to
goes through a few replies and its hard to detect who said what. Most of
the time I see it for what it is, a way of burying what was said in words to
hide the contradictions and escape being accountable for what is said.
People tend to have very very short memories.
God sees it all though.
Michael Christ
Andrew W
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Like the knowing that Jim Jones and others had that God wants a group of
>> people to take poison etc?
>
> No.
>
> One bad apple does not make every apple ever produced bad.
>
> Seeing your mother in a crowd is a bit different to mass suicide don't you
> think?
>
> Do you want a sensible conversation or what??
>
Ok, it probably was a bit extreme, but the theory is sound.
One's feelings about things are subject to one's beliefs and state of mind /
ego.
That's why you have to check in to everything and question even your own
motives and desires.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> How much of the Bible do you believe is true and inspired?
>> That will determine how different you are from the rest.
>
> I saw what I was shown. Now I don't need a bible.
>
> A bible is for those who don't believe, they are learning to.
>
Do you believe everything in the Christian doctrine?
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Life is about constantly searching for higher truths and evolving
>> yourself and your spirit.
>> Our learning about creation never stops and should never stop.
>> If you've stopped gaining higher and higher truths then you have stopped
>> spiritually evolving.
>
> The Lord is Someone to be experienced not Someone to be learned. So from
> that perspective, yes, the experience goes on and on...like in the theme
> song from the Titanic.
>
Fliff fluff.
You don't experience a wise person, you learn from them. He's not your love
partner Michael.
It seems you might be caught up in the soap bubble side of Christianity.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> I *have* found Christ. And along the way I (and many others) found that
>> Christianity got many things wrong about Christ, so if you haven't
>> realised that then you have not yet found the true path to the light that
>> Christ was really showing.
>
> Oh really.
>
> I don't look to modern day christianity as a guide.
>
If you worship Christ as a saviour to pay for sins then you already have.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> I have discovered it through serious critical study and research on
>> spiritual matters over many years, and I'm not the only one.
>> Everyone who has made this effort has made these same discoveries, that
>> Christianity has misunderstood Christ in profound ways.
>> It is now well known in the new age movement and other spiritual sectors.
>
> You haven't said anything, just made a statement.
>
Have it your way, but when the truth starts coming out more in the
mainstream media you will remember what I said.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> If you simply believe that he's a saviour like most others, instead of a
>> way shower and teacher then you still have way to go in your spiritual
>> development.
>
> Oh really.
>
> It is about Who and What He is, not about His job.
>
Its both.
Do you know who he was/is?
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> So tell me about some of my beliefs then.
>
> As the Lord reveals, then sure.
>
So you're not psychic after all. You just depend on a voice in your head
that you have named "the Lord" as taken from the Christian 'religion'.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Elaborate on this please.
>
> You need to fall in love, Andrew.
>
Human love is just an emotional experience and is limited to conditional
love.
Divine love is nothing like human love and is totally unconditional.
Falling in love with a humanised religious deity is meaningless and isn't
going to help you on your spiritual evolution at all.
Your ascension to the next level will only happen once you take
responsibility for yourself and start to work on and develop yourself.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Describe what's wrong with my replies.
>
> I dislike the way conversations go when people just hit reply instead of
> going to the trouble of clearly indentifying who said what. It only has
> to goes through a few replies and its hard to detect who said what. Most
> of the time I see it for what it is, a way of burying what was said in
> words to hide the contradictions and escape being accountable for what is
> said. People tend to have very very short memories.
>
> God sees it all though.
>
You can see what line belongs to you and the other poster by the number of
quote symbols in front of it.
If you want to see precisely who said what then you simply go back to the
previous posts. They are all right there.
Inserting each poster's name on every quote makes posting more time
consuming that it already is.
No one else is complaining about this time tested format.
It just depends on how you personally have gotten used to reading posts.
Michael Christ
>How much of the Bible do you believe is true and inspired?
>That will determine how different you are from the rest.
Michael Christ
>I saw what I was shown. Now I don't need a bible.
>A bible is for those who don't believe, they are learning to.
Andrew wrote:
> Do you believe everything in the Christian doctrine?
Goodness gracious that is a question as wide as the universe in this world.
Yes, I believe everything in the Christian doctrine that the Lord has shown
me. It clashes with mainstream christianity though, quite severely.
Andrew wrote:
>Life is about constantly searching for higher truths and evolving yourself
>and your spirit.
>Our learning about creation never stops and should never stop.
>If you've stopped gaining higher and higher truths then you have stopped
>spiritually evolving.
>The Lord is Someone to be experienced not Someone to be learned. So from
>that perspective, yes, the experience goes on and on...like in the theme
>song from the Titanic.
Andrew wrote:
> Fliff fluff.
> You don't experience a wise person, you learn from them. He's not your
> love partner Michael.
Oh yes He most certainly is. But if you have decided He isn't then that is
what you have decided.
Andrew wrote:
> It seems you might be caught up in the soap bubble side of Christianity.
Love is not soap bubble, though it can be an aspect of love, Rubber Ducky.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> I don't look to modern day christianity as a guide.
Andrew wrote:
> If you worship Christ as a saviour to pay for sins then you already have.
Of course the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sin of mankind, that is
non-negotiable.
He is the Messiah, the Saviour. The Father sent Him for that job as you
have agreed below.
Andrew wrote:
>I have discovered it through serious critical study and research on
>spiritual matters over many years, and I'm not the only one.
>Everyone who has made this effort has made these same discoveries, that
>Christianity has misunderstood Christ in profound ways.
>It is now well known in the new age movement and other spiritual sectors.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> You haven't said anything, just made a statement.
Andrew wrote:
> Have it your way, but when the truth starts coming out more in the
> mainstream media you will remember what I said.
But you haven't said anything of substance! You have just said you studied
for a long time and made some discoveries and made the comment that
christianity has misunderstood Christ.
Even I know that, man made christianity has made His image into something
that is a lie, replacing His image with the image of their own fallen
nature, but you haven't said anything about how or why or whatever? I just
said more than you have!
It is like this, I found something in the back yard and puts to question all
back yards. It begs the question, more info, don't you think?
Andrew wrote:
>If you simply believe that he's a saviour like most others, instead of a
>way shower and teacher then you still have way to go in your spiritual
>development.
Michael Christ wrote:
>Oh really.
>It is about Who and What He is, not about His job.
Andrew wrote:
> Its both.
Okay, if you like, but to me now it is all about Who and What He is.
Andrew wrote:
> Do you know who he was/is?
No, haven't got a clue, tell me about Him, or are you just going to leave it
in the air
like your statements above?
Andrew wrote:
>So tell me about some of my beliefs then.
Michael Christ wrote:
>As the Lord reveals, then sure.
Andrew wrote:
> So you're not psychic after all. You just depend on a voice in your head
> that you have named "the Lord" as taken from the Christian 'religion'.
You can have that voice in your head if you like.
Andrew wrote:
>Elaborate on this please.
Michael Christ wrote:
>You need to fall in love, Andrew.
Andrew wrote:
> Human love is just an emotional experience and is limited to conditional
> love.
> Divine love is nothing like human love and is totally unconditional.
> Falling in love with a humanised religious deity is meaningless and isn't
> going to help you on your spiritual evolution at all.
> Your ascension to the next level will only happen once you take
> responsibility for yourself and start to work on and develop yourself.
Good luck on that one.
As regard to love, you need to convince God that you want to love as He
loves.
Andrew wrote:
>Describe what's wrong with my replies.
Michael Christ wrote:
>I dislike the way conversations go when people just hit reply instead of
>going to the trouble of clearly indentifying who said what. It only has to
>goes through a few replies and its hard to detect who said what. Most of
>the time I see it for what it is, a way of burying what was said in words
>to hide the contradictions and escape being accountable for what is said.
>People tend to have very very short memories.
>God sees it all though.
Andrew wrote:
> You can see what line belongs to you and the other poster by the number of
> quote symbols in front of it.
> If you want to see precisely who said what then you simply go back to the
> previous posts. They are all right there.
> Inserting each poster's name on every quote makes posting more time
> consuming that it already is.
> No one else is complaining about this time tested format.
> It just depends on how you personally have gotten used to reading posts.
So, I'll take that as a no.
Michael Christ
Andrew W
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Fliff fluff.
>> You don't experience a wise person, you learn from them. He's not your
>> love partner Michael.
>
> Oh yes He most certainly is. But if you have decided He isn't then that
> is what you have decided.
>
You should know that Christ does not want your romantic advances. He wants
you to spiritually evolve yourself just like he did.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> It seems you might be caught up in the soap bubble side of Christianity.
>
> Love is not soap bubble, though it can be an aspect of love, Rubber Ducky.
>
If you think that spirit love is anything like human love then you are more
simple minded than I thought.
Human love is mere soap bubble to spirit. Human love is ego based. It is
only about emotion, desire and wanting a mate.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> If you worship Christ as a saviour to pay for sins then you already have.
>
> Of course the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sin of mankind, that is
> non-negotiable.
>
> He is the Messiah, the Saviour. The Father sent Him for that job as you
> have agreed below.
>
So you believe the Christian religion's highly popular but completely
misunderstood version of Christ - the common ignorant lay person's version
that the preachers have been spoon feeding the masses for centuries.
Then you actually haven't done any study on spirituality at all to find out
the truth. And that voice in your head just told you what you wanted to hear
which means it was probably just another level of your own self (ego self)
talking back to you.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Have it your way, but when the truth starts coming out more in the
>> mainstream media you will remember what I said.
>
> But you haven't said anything of substance! You have just said you
> studied for a long time and made some discoveries and made the comment
> that christianity has misunderstood Christ.
>
> Even I know that, man made christianity has made His image into something
> that is a lie, replacing His image with the image of their own fallen
> nature, but you haven't said anything about how or why or whatever? I
> just said more than you have!
>
> It is like this, I found something in the back yard and puts to question
> all back yards. It begs the question, more info, don't you think?
>
I can't explain and teach it all to you. It would take years.
I'm only here to prompt people like you to start thinking, searching and
studying for yourself so you can uncover the false popular beliefs of this
world just like I did.
I will never be able to convince you of anything. Only you can convince you.
But you have to take the journey yourself.
Did you expect the truth to just fall in your lap out of pure luck?
>
>>It is about Who and What He is, not about His job.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Its both.
>
> Okay, if you like, but to me now it is all about Who and What He is.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Do you know who he was/is?
>
> No, haven't got a clue, tell me about Him, or are you just going to leave
> it in the air
> like your statements above?
>
I will tell you.
Christ is the highest and most spiritually evolved aspect of the human
consciousness collective (of which we are all an integral part).
Jesus was the temporary physical human form. Christ is the purely
spirit/consciousness form.
Jesus was a representation and demonstration of our absolute highest
potential.
He is like our older and more evolved brother. The only difference between
him and us is time (evolution).
We will some day evolve to his level. In fact he said in the scriptures that
what he has done, we will also do, and more.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> So you're not psychic after all. You just depend on a voice in your head
>> that you have named "the Lord" as taken from the Christian 'religion'.
>
> You can have that voice in your head if you like.
>
I don't have any voices in my head. I use *all* resources available to seek
the truth.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> Human love is just an emotional experience and is limited to conditional
>> love.
>> Divine love is nothing like human love and is totally unconditional.
>> Falling in love with a humanised religious deity is meaningless and isn't
>> going to help you on your spiritual evolution at all.
>> Your ascension to the next level will only happen once you take
>> responsibility for yourself and start to work on and develop yourself.
>
> Good luck on that one.
>
I don't use luck. I simply take responsibility for my own evolvement, and
have had great success.
Very few Christian take responsibility for themselves unfortunately which
makes them part of the problem rather than the solution.
You sound much the same.
>
> As regard to love, you need to convince God that you want to love as He
> loves.
>
I'm way ahead of you. You're still paddling around in a kiddie pool of your
own special Jesus cuddling romantic version of religion.
Michael Christ
>>> Fliff fluff.
>>> You don't experience a wise person, you learn from them. He's not your
>>> love partner Michael.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Oh yes He most certainly is. But if you have decided He isn't then that
>> is what you have decided.
Andrew wrote:
> You should know that Christ does not want your romantic advances. He
> wants you to spiritually evolve yourself just like he did.
Like you were told, Andrew, you have to fall in love.
Andrew wrote:
>It seems you might be caught up in the soap bubble side of Christianity.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Love is not soap bubble, though it can be an aspect of love, Rubber
>> Ducky.
Andrew wrote:
> If you think that spirit love is anything like human love then you are
> more simple minded than I thought.
> Human love is mere soap bubble to spirit. Human love is ego based. It is
> only about emotion, desire and wanting a mate.
Are you listening or not?
Did I or did I not say this: "You need to convince God that you want to
love as He
loves."
Andrew wrote:
>If you worship Christ as a saviour to pay for sins then you already have.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Of course the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sin of mankind, that is
>> non-negotiable.
>>
>> He is the Messiah, the Saviour. The Father sent Him for that job as you
>> have agreed below.
Andrew wrote:
> So you believe the Christian religion's highly popular but completely
> misunderstood version of Christ - the common ignorant lay person's version
> that the preachers have been spoon feeding the masses for centuries.
> Then you actually haven't done any study on spirituality at all to find
> out the truth. And that voice in your head just told you what you wanted
> to hear which means it was probably just another level of your own self
> (ego self) talking back to you.
Look, I know Jesus died to save me from certain death in my sin. If you
have another version, then lets hear it. Stop fluffing around with
innuendo.
Andrew wrote:
>Have it your way, but when the truth starts coming out more in the
>mainstream media you will remember what I said.
Michael Christ wrote:
>But you haven't said anything of substance! You have just said you studied
>for a long time and made some discoveries and made the comment that
>christianity has misunderstood Christ.
>Even I know that, man made christianity has made His image into something
>that is a lie, replacing His image with the image of their own fallen
>nature, but you haven't said anything about how or why or whatever? I just
>said more than you have!
>It is like this, I found something in the back yard and puts to question
>all back yards. It begs the question, more info, don't you think?
Andrew wrote:
> I can't explain and teach it all to you. It would take years.
> I'm only here to prompt people like you to start thinking, searching and
> studying for yourself so you can uncover the false popular beliefs of this
> world just like I did.
> I will never be able to convince you of anything. Only you can convince
> you. But you have to take the journey yourself.
> Did you expect the truth to just fall in your lap out of pure luck?
You haven't given me any witness of truth, you have just talked about being
one.
Where is the substance!!?? Only here to prompt? With what? Inuenndo? "I
can't explain and teach it all to you. It would take years." Do you know
what that sounds like? :-).
Andrew wrote:
>Do you know who he was/is?
Michael Christ wrote:
>No, haven't got a clue, tell me about Him, or are you just going to leave
>it in the air like your statements above?
Andrew wrote:
> I will tell you.
> Christ is the highest and most spiritually evolved aspect of the human
> consciousness collective (of which we are all an integral part).
> Jesus was the temporary physical human form. Christ is the purely
> spirit/consciousness form.
> Jesus was a representation and demonstration of our absolute highest
> potential.
> He is like our older and more evolved brother. The only difference between
> him and us is time (evolution).
> We will some day evolve to his level. In fact he said in the scriptures
> that what he has done, we will also do, and more.
What you describe is an impersonal entity, that is not the Jesus I know.
It is nothing like Him. You are skirting around the problem that keeps you
from a personal relationship. It is not going to go away until you take
personal responsibility.
You *have to* come to the coalface with Him in your sin.
Don't tell me sin is not a problem in man, just look at "all of the
resources available". You are a man.
Andrew wrote:
>>> So you're not psychic after all. You just depend on a voice in your
>>> head that you have named "the Lord" as taken from the Christian
>>> 'religion'.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> You can have that voice in your head if you like.
Andrew wrote:
> I don't have any voices in my head. I use *all* resources available to
> seek the truth.
Bottom line: Jesus is the only resource, He is a Person.
Andrew wrote:
>Human love is just an emotional experience and is limited to conditional
>love.
>Divine love is nothing like human love and is totally unconditional.
>Falling in love with a humanised religious deity is meaningless and isn't
>going to help you on your spiritual evolution at all.
>Your ascension to the next level will only happen once you take
>responsibility for yourself and start to work on and develop yourself.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Good luck on that one.
Andrew wrote:
> I don't use luck. I simply take responsibility for my own evolvement, and
> have had great success.
> Very few Christian take responsibility for themselves unfortunately which
> makes them part of the problem rather than the solution.
> You sound much the same.
We are discussing a couple of 'responsibilities', one is sin, another is
your heart.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> As regard to love, you need to convince God that you want to love as He
>> loves.
Andrew wrote:
> I'm way ahead of you. You're still paddling around in a kiddie pool of
> your own special Jesus cuddling romantic version of religion.
:-).
Like the Lord has already said to you (and He is never wrong), "You have
left one stone unturned, it is called your heart."
I don't know whether you will approve of said bible verses but they say
something you need to hear...
Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of
all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean:
from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put
within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I
will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my
statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
...notice the 'I' is not yours, it belongs to God.
If you strive to raise yourself up you will fail, and have already failed.
Michael Christ
Andrew W
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> You should know that Christ does not want your romantic advances. He
>> wants you to spiritually evolve yourself just like he did.
>
> Like you were told, Andrew, you have to fall in love.
>
Human love is an emotional intoxication. Is it not? You want me to become
merely intoxicated, and that will somehow magically educate me about
spiritual evolution?
What have you done to spiritually evolve yourself?
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> If you think that spirit love is anything like human love then you are
>> more simple minded than I thought.
>> Human love is mere soap bubble to spirit. Human love is ego based. It is
>> only about emotion, desire and wanting a mate.
>
> Are you listening or not?
>
> Did I or did I not say this: "You need to convince God that you want to
> love as He
> loves."
>
We don't need to convince God of anything. He is not our work boss.
You are lowering God down to the level of a human. God *is* literally
everything.
You seem to be still under the primitive impression that God is a
judgemental humanoid living in the clouds or something.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> So you believe the Christian religion's highly popular but completely
>> misunderstood version of Christ - the common ignorant lay person's
>> version that the preachers have been spoon feeding the masses for
>> centuries.
>> Then you actually haven't done any study on spirituality at all to find
>> out the truth. And that voice in your head just told you what you wanted
>> to hear which means it was probably just another level of your own self
>> (ego self) talking back to you.
>
> Look, I know Jesus died to save me from certain death in my sin. If you
> have another version, then lets hear it. Stop fluffing around with
> innuendo.
>
Correction: you believe.
You have simply bought into the early theologian and Catholic church's
legalistic interpretations about Christ.
The truth.
Christ came to help lead us back to the light by helping us to realise some
crucial things.
His physical death on the cross (and return) was a demonstration that our
true selves (spirit) cannot be killed by any level of darkness (ego).
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> I will tell you.
>> Christ is the highest and most spiritually evolved aspect of the human
>> consciousness collective (of which we are all an integral part).
>> Jesus was the temporary physical human form. Christ is the purely
>> spirit/consciousness form.
>> Jesus was a representation and demonstration of our absolute highest
>> potential.
>> He is like our older and more evolved brother. The only difference
>> between him and us is time (evolution).
>> We will some day evolve to his level. In fact he said in the scriptures
>> that what he has done, we will also do, and more.
>
> What you describe is an impersonal entity, that is not the Jesus I know.
>
Correction: Not the Jesus you believe in.
The human Jesus is gone by the way. Christ the spirit is all that exists
now.
And how can Christ be impersonal if he's actually part of us? Being part of
someone is as personal as you can get.
Its far more personal than the silly old Jesus-up-in-the-clouds version that
many Christians still cling to.
>
> It is nothing like Him. You are skirting around the problem that keeps
> you from a personal relationship. It is not going to go away until you
> take personal responsibility.
>
If you believe in a Jesus that simply comes and saves you from everything
like a white knight on a horse then it is you who is not taking
responsibility for yourself. You want Jesus to do it all for you while you
just blow kisses at him and do nothing else.
I can see that you strongly believe in the old traditional Christian version
of Christ created largely by the Catholic church. If you've decided to
fanatically stick with that version then I can't help you.
>
> You *have to* come to the coalface with Him in your sin.
>
> Don't tell me sin is not a problem in man, just look at "all of the
> resources available". You are a man.
>
What you and the Christian religion call 'sin' is the errors that we make
from which we learn and evolve.
The early theologians turned the whole thing into a scary legalistic
courtroom affair.
You can believe that old fear crap if you want, but we are on an evolution
path.
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> You can have that voice in your head if you like.
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> I don't have any voices in my head. I use *all* resources available to
>> seek the truth.
>
> Bottom line: Jesus is the only resource, He is a Person.
>
Spirit.
The human Jesus person hasn't been present for 2000 years.
>
> Michael Christ wrote:
>>> As regard to love, you need to convince God that you want to love as He
>>> loves.
>
>
> Andrew wrote:
>> I'm way ahead of you. You're still paddling around in a kiddie pool of
>> your own special Jesus cuddling romantic version of religion.
>
> :-).
>
> Like the Lord has already said to you (and He is never wrong), "You have
> left one stone unturned, it is called your heart."
>
> I don't know whether you will approve of said bible verses but they say
> something you need to hear...
>
> Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out
> of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
> Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be
> clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse
> you.
> Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put
> within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I
> will give you an heart of flesh.
> Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in
> my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
>
> ...notice the 'I' is not yours, it belongs to God.
>
> If you strive to raise yourself up you will fail, and have already failed.
>
I think you are talking airy-fairy nonsense.
Saying a few vague things about my heart doesn't help me very much.
Working on one's heart is pointless if you have put incorrect information
into it in the first place.
Michael Christ
>You should know that Christ does not want your romantic advances. He wants
>you to spiritually evolve yourself just like he did.
He didn't come to 'spiritually evolve' Himself.
He took our punishment for our sins upon Himself. He came to sacrifice
Himself for our transgressions to restore us to right relationship with God.
And you want to take our mess and try and raise it up to some higher
consciousness? You have to be joking!! And you would do that in light of
the testimony of man...the wars, the murder, the killing, the pollution, the
failure, the ignorance, the hurt, the misery, the hatred, the
self-righteousness, the self-glory, the selfishness, the self-worship, and
the vanity and complete folly of all his ways?!
He came out of love, out of righteous pity, and He did what was necessary so
that we could come to Him to be restored, and you want to restore
yourself??!!
He came out of love, and wants us to choose freely to love Him.
If you don't realise that in all your super evolved consciousness, then in
your super evolved consciousness you know nothing.
Love is the answer.
Michael Christ wrote:
>> Like you were told, Andrew, you have to fall in love.
Andrew wrote:
> Human love is an emotional intoxication. Is it not? You want me to
> become merely intoxicated, and that will somehow magically educate me
> about spiritual evolution?
> What have you done to spiritually evolve yourself?
I am not interested in individually glorying in myself in trying in vain to
raise myself up in some so-called higher evolutionary consciousness.
Your focus is on human consciousness and not on His glory, and He is
glorious.
God is a Person, not simply an entity as a means to empower you.
Andrew wrote:
> I think you are talking airy-fairy nonsense.
> Saying a few vague things about my heart doesn't help me very much.
>
> Working on one's heart is pointless if you have put incorrect information
> into it in the first place.
It is not vague or incorrect because the Lord speaks right into
consciousness. You have left one stone unturned, it is your heart.
The answer is love, always has been, always will be, not some crusade for
higher human consciousness. You come to Him as the child of ignorance you
are, so that He can take your existence and do something that you can never
do, give it life.
Michael Christ
Wild Bill
Andrew W. has been correct throughout this thread. You remain terribly
deluded Michael, and unfortunately you're not alone.
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
>
Michael Christ
"Wild Bill" <bils...@daytonwa.net> wrote in message
news:hia01h$udp$1...@news.parasun.com...
Bill wrote:
> Andrew W. has been correct throughout this thread. You remain terribly
> deluded Michael, and unfortunately you're not alone.
Well then Bill you stick with your higher human consciousness and stand in
awe of man and what he has done and is doing to the environment.
That is something you can see.
Michael Christ
Wild Bill
Well, if we don't get our act together and be far more careful and concious
of our environment, we run the definet risk of becomiing extinct. We're
incapable of destroying the Earth, but we certainly could be responsible for
making it uninhabitable. If we avoid suicide as a species, in a couple
million more years or so, we could evolve into a higher life form--a kinder,
more gentle one.
>
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
Michael Christ
The problem is spiritual Bill.
Michael Christ
Wild Bill
No, I don't think so, Michael. Spirituality is simply one aspect of a much
larger problem. It's called the human condition. That's what the Old
Testament is all about. Human beings run the gamut between the good, the bad
& the ugly.
>
>
> Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Sorry Bill but you have to go back to the drawing board.
Can't waste any more time, sorry.
Michael Christ
Wild Bill
I'm way ahead of you Michael. Whenever you decide to get an education and
catch up, just let me know.
>
>
>
>
> Michael Christ
Bob LeChevalier
>www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/features/good-for-goodness-sake
>
>“Just be good”
>
>Being “good” can get you far in our world. Good behavior wins
>praise, commuted jail terms, and tangible rewards. Good deeds net
>accolades and often tax benefits. Good things come to those who
OK
>And we celebrate “goodness” the most during this time of year.
No "we" don't.
>But what if our “good” deeds are just a mask for the bad things
>we hide inside?
So what?
>Atheists tell us that we should be good for goodness sake,
No. That is Santa Claus, when he is "coming to town", per the song.
Atheists don't give a damn.
>that people can be good without God.
Obviously.
>But they don’t tell us how they know or how they measure what is “good.”
They don't need to. Your first paragraph shows one way "how": by its
fruits. But even that isn't necessary. Each of us self-defines
"good", even those who claim that they follow the Bible (as evidenced
by the fact that numerous Christian churches disagree on what the
Bible says.
>The problem with the world’s understanding of “goodness” is that
>there’s no foundation, no solid definition.
So what? There doesn't need to be.
>We all have our own
>ideas about what’s acceptable and what’s not or what deserves
>praise and what doesn’t.
Good for us.
>In fact, one person may condemn what
>another person sees as “for the greater good.”
So what?
>The truth is that “being good” is not good enough.
Good enough for what? For those atheists with their self-defined
"good", it most certainly IS good enough for them.
>In fact, our
>own good deeds are nothing more than filthy rags we hope will
>cover our faults and failures.
Speak for yourself, dimwit.
>But you don’t have to make your own way—you don’t have to hope
>that you’re doing enough.
Why would one need to "hope"?
>Your own good deeds, they’ll never get you anywhere,
Of course they will. See your first paragraph.
>never make you free of your sin debt.
Non-Christians don't believe in any such thing, therefore they have no
need to be "saved" from it.
>If you’ve never experienced this freedom, you can do so right
>where you are. Ask God to forgive your sins against Him in the
>past and believe that Christ came to take the penalty for your
>disobedience and show you what goodness is all about.
(yawn)
lojbab
---
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org
Martin
>I LOVE IT
"Wild Bill" <bils...@daytonwa.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:hifbfq$it6$1...@news.parasun.com...
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---