Re: [k-9-mail] word document attachment coming in as webmail.dat

[Richard]

A winmail.dat file/attachment is the result of the Outlook client's
encapsulation of its internal rich text format. The underlying
document is not a MSword document proper. This MS proprietary format
is understood by other MS clients/applications, but mostly not the
rest of the world.

I have no problem with .doc/.docx with K-9. The attachments appear
as they should, and there are a range of Android apps that can open
them.

I don't use MS anything so am guessing a bit, but suspect that a
MSword (.doc/.docx) document isn't actually being attached to the
message. Rather it may be being opened in outlook, transformed to
the outlook RTF format and then encapsulated when that document is
sent from outlook as a message.

See MS's answer on what to do if (non-MS) recipients are receiving
winmail.dat attachments.

<https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Recipients-receive-a-winmaildat-attachment-1735ba97-39b8-40d4-ba17-0e0150ef87a8?CorrelationId=962a64e3-2990-443c-8e25-7829c274739a&ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US>



------------ Original Message ------------
> Date: Friday, May 08, 2015 10:04:24 AM -0700
> From: Cindy <back...@mchsi.com>
>
> k9 used to accept word documents just fine. The document still
> shows up fine out on the web and on my desktop, just not k9 so I
> don't think it is totally an Outlook thing. Either way, what can
> be done to get k9 to go back to accepting word documents
> correctly and not turning them into a winmail.dat file?
>
> Thank you,
> Cindy
>
> On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 10:03:07 PM UTC-5, Seth Holmes wrote:
>
>> IIRC, that's an Outlook thing.
>>
>> On May 5, 2015 5:30:13 PM EDT, Cindy Backstein wrote:
>>>
>>> Word document attachments that come in correctly on the desktop
>>> show up as winmail.dat files on my Samsung Galaxy S3. Why?
>>> What can be done to fix this problem? Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Seth H Holmes
>> Sent from my Nexus 7 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

------------ End Original Message ------------

[John F. Eldredge]

The internal format of a Winmail.dat file is not documented. A few attempts have been made to reverse-engineer the format, with only partial success.

--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com (615) 299-6451
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Cindy]

I do a lot of MS word documents/contracts on my computer to send to clients.  I always send myself a copy of it too.  So when it is coming from me, to me, I can guarantee it is leaving as a .doc, and it comes back as a .doc online but on my phone it comes in as a winmail.dat. 

 I used to be able to open and read my own .doc contracts on my phone but it changed a while back (can't tell you the exact date it changed) but something has changed with k9 to cause this problem since the document is fine out on the web and when it comes into my desktop.  Since k9 used to be able to open these just fine, I know that they should be able to fix whatever is causing the problem now. 

Even if no one has the answer at present, k9 needs to look into changes they have made that might be causing the issue and fix it back to the way it was.  Are the k9 coders reading these posts to know of the problem?

thank you,
Cindy

[Dennis Rockwell]

On 05/12/2015 06:09 PM, Cindy wrote:
> I do a lot of MS word documents/contracts on my computer to send to
> clients. I always send myself a copy of it too. So when it is coming
> from me, to me, I can guarantee it is leaving as a .doc, and it comes
> back as a .doc online but on my phone it comes in as a winmail.dat.

As a doc online how? A Microsoft email application, perhaps? What does
a webmail interface show you?

A Microsoft app will show you a winmail.dat as a doc file.

> I used to be able to open and read my own .doc contracts on my phone
> but it changed a while back (can't tell you the exact date it changed)
> but something has changed with k9 to cause this problem since the
> document is fine out on the web and when it comes into my desktop.

Your Microsoft desktop? On the web as viewed via Outlook?

Microsoft has a long history of creating applications that violate
standards (they do NOT write the standards, the code they write is NOT
gospel) and hiding that from the users.

> Since k9 used to be able to open these just fine, I know that they
> should be able to fix whatever is causing the problem now.

I can confidently assure you that the K-9 developers (I'm NOT one of
them) have no interest in writing and maintaining the code for
converting a .doc to a winmail.dat.

> Even if no one has the answer at present, k9 needs to look into
> changes they have made that might be causing the issue and fix it back
> to the way it was. Are the k9 coders reading these posts to know of
> the problem?

Please email me a doc file and cc yourself. I will look at it via
gmail's web interface (chrome and firefox on Linux), K-9 (Android 4.4.2
and 5.1.1), and Thunderbird on Linux. I promise to be honest about what
I see.

Dennis

[Seth Holmes]

On 5/12/15 6:09 PM, Cindy wrote:
> I do a lot of MS word documents/contracts on my computer to send to clients.
> I always send myself a copy of it too. So when it is coming from me, to me, I
> can guarantee it is leaving as a .doc, and it comes back as a .doc online but
> on my phone it comes in as a winmail.dat.
>
> I used to be able to open and read my own .doc contracts on my phone but it
> changed a while back (can't tell you the exact date it changed) but something
> has changed with k9 to cause this problem since the document is fine out on
> the web and when it comes into my desktop. Since k9 used to be able to open
> these just fine, I know that they should be able to fix whatever is causing
> the problem now.
>
> Even if no one has the answer at present, k9 needs to look into changes they
> have made that might be causing the issue and fix it back to the way it was.
> Are the k9 coders reading these posts to know of the problem?

The rest of the Internet recognizes that a winmail.dat file is a specific
Microsoft proprietary format and that Microsoft has gone through great lengths
to make it proprietary.

It really does depend on the client you are using and whether or not it
supports winmail.dat. The list is small. I know Outlook is on the list. I
don't know what you use to access your e-mail over the web, but whatever it is
probably supports winmail.dat files. Maybe is mchsi.com uses Exchange on the
back end, it can handle winmail.dat files for you. There are some third party
add-ons for Thunderbird that supposedly do this as well. But Thunderbird
(arguably one of the most popular desktop clients on the Internet) does not
support it.

Here's what Microsoft has to say on the subject:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/278061

SYMPTOMS
You receive an email message that contains a winmail.dat attachment. This
issue may occur if all of the following conditions are true:
The email message is sent to you by someone using Microsoft Outlook.
The format of the message is Rich Text format (RTF).

This issue is more common when the email message is sent to you over the Internet.

CAUSE
The Winmail.dat file is used to preserve Rich Text formatting. Outlook uses it
when sending a Rich Text-formatted message. During transport, the content of
the message may be changed, preventing the receiving client from being able to
read the formatting instructions. In other cases, the receiving client does
not use or recognize the winmail.dat file.

RESOLUTION
The data in a winmail.dat file is not usable. To resolve this issue, ask the
sender to re-send the message in plain text format. The following methods can
be used by sender to prevent sending Rich Text messages encapsulated in the
Transport Neutral Encapsulation Format (TNEF).

Method 1: Change the default message format

The sender can change the format of the email messages that they send by using
the following steps:
On the Tools menu, click Options, and then click Mail Format.
In Compose in this message format, click to select Plain Text, and then click OK.
NOTE: To send to certain recipients that use RTF format and others recipients
that use plain text format, the sender must set the option for the recipient
in either the Personal Address Book or the recipient's contact record.

Method 2: Modify the recipient's entry in the Personal Address Book

The sender can use the following steps to remove the RTF format from the
recipient attribute in the Personal Address Book:
On the Tools menu, click Address Book.
In Show Names From, click the Personal Address Book.
Select the addressee that you want to set as plain text, and then click
Properties on the File menu.
In the SMTP-General tab, click to clear the Always send to this recipient in
Microsoft Exchange rich text format check box, and then click OK.

Method 3: Change the specific contact format

The sender can use the following steps to set plain text in the recipient's
contact record:
Open the recipient's record in the Contacts folder.
Double-click the recipient's e-mail address.
In the E-Mail Properties dialog box, click Send Plain Text only under Internet
Format.

Method 4: Set the Outlook Rich Text Format Internet e-mail setting

In Outlook 2003 and Outlook 2007, click Options on the Tools menu.
Click the Mail Format tab.
Click Internet Format.
Under Outlook Rich Text options, click either Convert to HTML format or
Convert to Plain Text format.





But I think it's more likely something changed on your end than something
changed on K-9s end. I don't know that K-9 has ever supported winmail.dat
files. Anyone know? Since it's possible for an administrator on a Windows
network to modify your settings without your knowledge, it's very possible
something changed without your knowledge.

I'm a little more concerned you're sending legal documents to your e-mail
address outside of your organization's system.



But hey, the rest of the community could be wrong. I'm sure it's happened before.

--
Seth H Holmes
http://www.route-fu.net/

[John F. Eldredge]

As far as I know, Microsoft has never publicly released the details of their proprietary email format. Certain companies have been able to license this information, but have no doubt had to pay a substantial amount of money and agree to non-disclosure agreements. If the full formatting needs to be preserved, the best solution would likely be to send the document as an attachment.

[John F. Eldredge]

Oops. Sorry about the brain fart. I meant to say, send the message as HTML or plain text, using the standard attachment encoding for the attachment.

[Cindy and George Backstein]

**** As a doc online how? A Microsoft email application, perhaps? What does a webmail interface show you?

I was rereading your email and noticed that I didn't answer the above question you asked.

I use IE and go to my webmail online. From there I open the email and see my attachment. It is listed as a .doc I can then click on it and click view. Then it opens on my computer perfectly fine as the .doc it is supposed to be. But on my phone with k9, when I click on show attachment, all it shows is the winmail.dat file.


Cindy

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[Cindy]

Hi Seth,

the info you gave about winmail.dat has to do with the email being a rich text formatted message. 

That is not what I am talking about.  I am using html formatted message and attaching a word document (.doc) to the html formatted email. 

So the winmail.dat file your link is referring to has nothing to do with the word document attachment that should be there.  It stays a word document when viewing the email out on Mediacom's web mail interface.  It stays a word document attachment when coming into my computer.  However, on my phone using k9 the word document file is no longer there and in it's place is a winmail.dat file.  K9 used to be able to view a word document file several months ago. 

Cindy

[Cindy]

I AM sending the document as a word document attachment.  That is what I said in my original post.  It leaves my computer as a regular email (html formatted)  with a word document attachment.  It comes back to my computer as the same.  It is viewable out on Mediacom's web mail as a word document.  However, on my phone with k9 the file attachment is no longer a .doc but now a wimail.dat file.

Cindy

[Cindy]

Also too, using IE on my phone and going to Mediacom's web mail interface (instead of going through K9) I can see and open the word document just fine so it is not my phone but k9 that is causing the problem.

Cindy

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[Seth Holmes]

On 5/15/15 6:29 PM, Cindy wrote:
> Also too, using IE on my phone and going to Mediacom's web mail interface
> (instead of going through K9) I can see and open the word document just fine
> so it is not my phone but k9 that is causing the problem.

You have IE and K-9 on the same phone?

Mediacom may be able to decode the winmail.dat file. Try opening the same
e-mail in Thunderbird and you'll likely run into the same issue.

[Seth Holmes]

On 5/15/15 6:22 PM, Cindy wrote:
> Hi Seth,
>
> the info you gave about winmail.dat has to do with the email being a rich text
> formatted message.
>
> That is not what I am talking about. I am using html formatted message and
> attaching a word document (.doc) to the html formatted email.
>
> So the winmail.dat file your link is referring to has nothing to do with the
> word document attachment that should be there. It stays a word document when
> viewing the email out on Mediacom's web mail interface. It stays a word
> document attachment when coming into my computer. However, on my phone using
> k9 the word document file is no longer there and in it's place is a
> winmail.dat file. K9 used to be able to view a word document file several
> months ago.

Try reading this article:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2007-word/word-doc-attachmentsbecome-winmaildat/5366cdd7-b966-48f8-9498-e85329dacab5

It's a little old but also seems to cover word documents showing up as
winmail.dat files.

The bottom line is that until you change the way you are sending your e-mail,
it's going to be a problem. Part of the problem may be that by e-mailing
yourself, Outlook is assuming you'll be able to read the proprietary format
and does not take into account reading it on third party applications.

I know you really want this to be something K-9 can do, but it can't. It's not
an issue with receiving word documents. It's an issue with sending them.

I'm going to attach a word document generated in Google Docs. Let's see what
happens.

[Voytek]

On 17 May 2015 5:34:09 am AEST, Seth Holmes <sho...@route-fu.net> wrote:

>Try reading this article:
>
>http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2007-word/word-doc-attachmentsbecome-winmaildat/5366cdd7-b966-48f8-9498-e85329dacab5
>
>It's a little old but also seems to cover word documents showing up as
>winmail.dat files.
>
>The bottom line is that until you change the way you are sending your
>e-mail,
>it's going to be a problem. Part of the problem may be that by
>e-mailing
>yourself, Outlook is assuming you'll be able to read the proprietary
>format
>and does not take into account reading it on third party applications.
>
>I know you really want this to be something K-9 can do, but it can't.
>It's not
>an issue with receiving word documents. It's an issue with sending
>them.
>
>I'm going to attach a word document generated in Google Docs. Let's see
>what
>happens.

Seth,

Really weird, I've received it as winmail.dat,

G,D&R...

I agree 110% with everything you've written, but, I wonder if mail headers might show the attachment details,

Cindy, can you please have a look at received email mail header?


Voytek
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Voytek Eymont]

actually, sorry, I though the mail header shows attachments, looking at one now, I think it doesn't, attachment details come 'below' header, it seems ?, sorry if I caused any confusion, but, looking at mail body in an editor would show it ?

--

Voytek

[Seth H Holmes]

I sent it with thunderbird.
--
Seth H Holmes
Droid RAZR M with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Richard]

You can see the whole message if you have a client that has a "raw"
message view. In that view, I see the following below the part
divider (at the end of the text section).

Content-Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.
wordprocessingml.document;
name="TestDoc.docx"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="TestDoc.docx"

followed by the base64 attachment.

With my mail client, saving the message to a file (for subsequent
viewing with an editor) only got down to the end of the text part.
Other mail clients may handle things differently.

[Seth H Holmes]

I received the message as a .docx file
--
Seth H Holmes
Droid RAZR M with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Cindy]

Yes...IE for web and k9 as an email app.

[Cindy]

The same thing with this article...it is assuming the winmail.dat file is Outlook attaching it from out of the blue based on how the Outlook email was composed.  As the replyer noted...it does not take in to account that the actual word document attached is turning into the winmail.dat file..

[Cindy]

here is a word document that is showing up as a winmail.dat when viewing in k9

Cindy

[John F. Eldredge]

How are you doing that?  As far as I know, Internet Explorer is not available for Android, and K-9 is not available on any OS except Android.

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[Cindy]

Did some more testing...sending via Outlook on my desktop, from my gmail account to my gmail account, the document stays as a .doc file on my phone in k9

sending via Outlook on my desktop, from my mchsi account to my mchsi account, the document comes through as a winmail.dat file on my phone in k9

However this same file (mchsi to mchsi using Outlook on my desktop), using IE on my phone and going to Mediacom's web mail interface out on the web, the document stays as a .doc file

So why does k9 keep the .doc file intact for a gmail account (coming from Outlook) but not for an mchsi account (coming from Outlook) ?

Keep in mind, viewing on my phone from IE webmail interface from Mediacom also keeps the email attachment as a .doc.

So Mediacom is not changing anything to a winmail.dat as I can still view it on my phone via the webmail interface on IE.

The common factor is that it happens only in k9 on a mchsi account.

Does that help anyone figure out what the cause could be?

Cindy

[Cindy]

The phone came with IE already installed.  It is on a Samsung Galaxy S3.

[Seth H Holmes]

I think you maybe have "internet browser" which was a standard Android app. Internet Explorer is a Microsoft browser and I don't ever recall seeing a version for Android.
--
Seth H Holmes
Droid RAZR M with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Seth H Holmes]

On May 21, 2015 11:36:10 PM EDT, Cindy <back...@mchsi.com> wrote:

Did some more testing...sending via Outlook on my desktop, from my gmail account to my gmail account, the document stays as a .doc file on my phone in k9

sending via Outlook on my desktop, from my mchsi account to my mchsi account, the document comes through as a winmail.dat file on my phone in k9

However this same file (mchsi to mchsi using Outlook on my desktop), using IE on my phone and going to Mediacom's web mail interface out on the web, the document stays as a .doc file

So why does k9 keep the .doc file intact for a gmail account (coming from Outlook) but not for an mchsi account (coming from Outlook) ?

Keep in mind, viewing on my phone from IE webmail interface from Mediacom also keeps the email attachment as a .doc.

So Mediacom is not changing anything to a winmail.dat as I can still view it on my phone via the webmail interf! ace on IE.

I suspect it's the mchsi mail server converting to the Microsoft proprietary format. It sees your sender and send to accounts as being mchsi and this uses a format it assumes works in both places.

If I were you, I'd contact them to see what they may be doing.

FWIW, when you sent you're doc, it arrived to my phone using k9 as a .doc file.
--
Seth H Holmes
Droid RAZR M with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[John F. Eldredge]

Just to let you know, it shows up as a word document in Aqua Mail, and I was able to open and view it.  I don't know whether that means Aqua Mail is able to process win.dat files, or whether K-9 has a defect.

--

[Kostya Vasilyev]

Yes, AquaMail is able to handle these (winmail.dat files) in a special way.

The underlying technical differences (vs. regular MIME attachments) are completely hidden from the users...

...who expect to "just see their attachments" and not have to learn the "whys" and the "hows", and so that's what they get.

-- K

PS - sorry, wrong forum, I'll go back to lurking :)

[Richard Vanni]

What many here don't understand is that this problem of winmail.dat in K9 occurs only since the last few weeks.

I'm figuring out myself what's going wrong. What many here don't understand is that this problem of winmail.dat in K9 occurs since the last few weeks.  Text, Excel, Word and other attachements are received as Winmail.dat files in K9.

 I'm using K9 for three years now and I have never had any problems with attachements. Until now. Seems that K9 has changed something during the last month.

Op vrijdag 22 mei 2015 13:15:25 UTC+2 schreef Seth Holmes:

[Mobile Mouse]

Or the provider (ISP) changed something? Or the sender email software on the other end? E.g. Microsoft did quite a few updates to their Office package, including Outlook... Are you certain that nothing but K-9 changed?

Sent from my iPad

--

[Cindy]

Thanks for validating my issue Richard.  I was beginning to think I was crazy saying it USED to work just fine.  Cindy

[Cindy]

The sender I am testing with is me!  So no, I have not changed anything on my end. 

I can get it back to me via my ISP and it is still a .doc file on my computer. 

I can get it back to me via the webmail on my phone and it is still a .doc file on my phone so my phone is fine.

 It is just via K9 on my phone that it becomes a winmail.dat file.  So the issue has to lie with K9.  And since K9 used to work fine, it is something that has changed within K9 since phone, computer, and ISP all still get it back as a .doc file.

Cindy

[Voytek]

I find it hard to believe (in fact, I don't).

Please email to my email address such an email, thanks

Voytek

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Richard Vanni]

Good to be taken seriously.  Not!

Op vrijdag 5 juni 2015 12:26:38 UTC+2 schreef voytek:

[Richard]

The issue here is that there are many moving parts, in various
locations, involved. There is K9, but there is also the sender's
mail client/sending environment as well as the recipient mail server
and receiving environment. Any one of these could have changed (only
some parts are under the control of the end-user).

This thread started on 5/5. Looking back through I don't see the
version of K9 that this issue is showing up in. Knowing the Android
release is helpful too.

Both Seth and Cindy have sent .doc file attachments to the list
(Cindy's indicated that it was what was showing as a winmail.dat
file in your environment). For me at least, they both showed as .doc
attachments and opened fine (k9 5.103 and 5.106).

Historically, winmail.dat files are the result of the MS environment
(even MS will tell you that), so that's why we suspect that it's
something on that side of the equation, not K9. In addition to the
way the user is sending mail there is the user's back-end mail,
which in Cindy's case I suspect is an "Exchange" server. It's
possible that MS released an update that changed how things are
handled there. It's hard to tell, without some careful testing.

------------ Original Message ------------
> Date: Saturday, June 06, 2015 03:59:54 AM -0700
> From: Richard Vanni <riva...@gmail.com>
>
> Good to be taken seriously. Not!
>
> Op vrijdag 5 juni 2015 12:26:38 UTC+2 schreef voytek:
>>
>> I find it hard to believe (in fact, I don't).
>>
>> Please email to my email address such an email, thanks
>>
>> Voytek
>>
>> On 5 June 2015 5:19:11 am AEST, Cindy <back...@mchsi.com

>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for validating my issue Richard. I was beginning to
>>> think I was crazy saying it USED to work just fine. Cindy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 5:18:54 AM UTC-5, Richard Vanni
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> What many here don't understand is that this problem of
>>>> winmail.dat in K9 occurs only since the last few weeks.
>>>>
>>>> I'm figuring out myself what's going wrong. What many here
>>>> don't understand is that this problem of winmail.dat in K9
>>>> occurs since the last few weeks. Text, Excel, Word and other
>>>> attachements are received as Winmail.dat files in K9.

>>>> I'm using K9 for three years now and *I have never had any
>>>> problems with attachements. Until now*. Seems that K9 has

[Cindy]

I'm not exactly sure what an exchange server is but I thought it had something to do with a corporation's IT department.  I am a home user so I have no special servers or anything in my home.  Just my computer connected to the cable modem.

The file shows up fine in this forum when I sent it, but it is on my phone through K9 that it is showing up as winmail.dat file. 

The file shows up fine out on the web in Mediacom's webmail when using my phone and my computer.

The file comes back to me and views fine on my computer when I receive it back into the computer.

The only place the .doc files show up as a winmail.dat is on my phone when using K9.

I can email it to you to open on your phone using K9 to let you see it there.  If you can open it on your phone using K9 then it must be a setting on my phone or my K9 that needs changed.  If so, just tell me what to change and I'll do it!

Thank you,

Cindy

[Seth Holmes]

Please do not take any of this as an insult, because it's not meant to be such. It's simply a statement of fact.

Cindy, what you really need is tech support. You have a lack of understanding of the complex components involved in mail delivery. Despite numerous attempts by various people here to explain them to you, you still don't know about the different components. Lots of people don't. Like many people, you just expect e-mail to work. But as Richard (I think it was Richard) said,l there are a lot of moving parts here and any one of them could be tripping you up.

I'm sure the company you work for who handles your work mail server (which is what deals with sending your e-mail for you) has a help desk in the IT department who can help you through this. What you're dealing with is *not* an uncommon problem when Microsoft is involved. Microsoft does things their way with the expectation that everyone is using a Microsoft product. (They're not the only ones who do this, fwiw.) 

There is no setting in K-9 you can change to make this work. K-9 simply does not support (at this time) winmail.dat files. You may want to try another Android client such as Kaiten (the commercial version of K-9 which I would assume has more in depth support and feature request response), AquaMail which the author has said supports winmail.dat. It's also possible the native Android mail client supports winmail.dat files. But since this is very much a Microsoft thing and you're playing in an Android world (which expects a certain level of standards compliance), I don't think you're going to find your answer here.

Bottom line is K-9 does not support the winmail.dat format.

[Voytek Eymont]

And, on the links I've posted yesterday, there were a couple apps that apparently will decide winmail.dat

[Seth Holmes]

On 6/8/15 4:56 AM, Voytek Eymont wrote:
> And, on the links I've posted yesterday, there were a couple apps that
> apparently will decide winmail.dat

Perhaps. But it's pretty clear K-9 does not.

[Richard]

And the issue in this thread is mostly about whether K9 has changed
so that attachments that used to appear as .doc are now showing up
as winmail.dat.

I know that a couple of people, on and off list, have asked the OP
to send messages with the ".doc" attachments directly to their email
addresses. Without seeing how those attachments appear in non-MS
environments it's hard to determine whether something has changed in
K9 or in the OP's sending environment.

[Seth Holmes]

That is why I believe this question is outside of the scope of this
mailing list.

[Cindy]

Seth...this is on my home computer going straight out on my cable internet.  There is no IT department involved.

I'm not sending winmail.dat files so I don't need a program to "handle" them.  I just need K9 to stop converting a .doc file into a winmail.dat file. 

My computer is sending out .doc files. 

My ISP is receiving .doc files. 

My ISP is displaying the .doc files just fine via their webmail both on my phone and on my computer.

It is only when K9 receives the .doc file on my phone, that it then becomes a winmail.dat file.

K9 used to be able to receive .doc files without converting them to winmail.dat files.  This problem just started happening earlier this year.

So it definitely has something to do with K9.

I do not need K9 to "handle" winmail.dat files so they can be opened.  I just need it to STOP converting .doc files into winmail.dat files. 

PS: on the rare occasion (maybe once a year)  I've seen someone else's files come into my computer as a winmail.dat file...my computer won't open or "handle" them either.  K9 just needs to stop converting .doc files into winmail.dat files. 

Cindy

[Ola Thoresen]

I can guarantee you that k9 does not convert the files into winmail.dat. Your computer sends a winmail.dat and the _other_ mail clients converts this file _back_ to the original .doc.
K9, however, does not know how to do that.

Please listen to people who actually know how email works when they try to help you.

On 9 June 2015 22:20:22 CEST, Cindy <back...@mchsi.com> wrote:

Seth...this is on my home computer going straight out on my cable internet.  There is no IT department involved.

I'm not sending winmail.dat files so I don't need a program to "handle" them.  I just need K9 to stop converting a .doc file into a winmail.dat file. 

My computer is sending out .doc files. 

My ISP is receiving .doc files. 

My ISP is displaying the .doc files just fine via their webmail both on my phone and on my computer.

It is only when K9 receives the .doc file on my phone, that it then becomes a winmail.dat file.

K9 used to be able to receive .doc files without converting them to winmail.dat files.  This problem just started happening earlier this year.

So it definitely has something to do with K9.

I do not need K9 to "handle" winmail.dat files so they can be opened.  I just need it to STOP converting .doc files into winmail.dat files. 

PS: on the rare occasion (maybe once a year)  I've seen someone else's files come into my computer as a winmail.dat file...my computer won't open or "handle" them either.  K9 just needs to stop converting .doc files into winmail.dat files. 

Cindy

On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 10:43:17 AM UTC-5, Seth Holmes wrote:

Please do not take any of this as an insult, because it's not meant to be such. It's simply a statement of fact.

Cindy, what you really need is tech support. You have a lack of understanding of the com! plex components involved in mail delivery. Despite numerous attempts by various people here to explain them to you, you still don't know about the different components. Lots of people don't. Like many people, you just expect e-mail to work. But as Richard (I think it was Richard) said,l there are a lot of moving parts here and any one of them could be tripping you up.

I'm sure the company you work for who handles your work mail server (which is what deals with sending your e-mail for you) has a help desk in the IT department who can help you through this. What you're dealing with is *not* an uncommon problem when Microsoft is involved. Microsoft does things their way with the expectation that everyone is using a Microsoft product. (They're not the only ones who do this, fwiw.) 

There is no setting in K-9 you can change to make this work. K-9 simply does not support (at this time) winmail.dat files. You may want to try ano! ther Android client such as Kaiten (the commercial version of K-9 which I would assume has more in depth support and feature request response), AquaMail which the author has said supports winmail.dat. It's also possible the native Android mail client supports winmail.dat files. But since this is very much a Microsoft thing and you're playing in an Android world (which expects a certain level of standards compliance), I don't think you're going to find your answer here.

Bottom line is K-9 does not support the winmail.dat format.

 

On Saturday, June 6, 2015 at 6:20:47 PM UTC-4, Cindy wrote:

I'm not exactly sure what an exchange server is but I thought it had something to do with a corporation's IT department.  I am a home u! ser so I have no special servers or anything in my home.  Just my computer connected to the cable modem.

--
Mvh.

Ola Thoresen

[Richard]

Cindy -- Various people have suggested that you send ".doc" files
directly to their email addresses so that they can be looked at in
non-MS environments (with desk/laptop email as well as mobile device
clients). I don't get the sense that you have done that. Without a
3rd-party/environment review it's hard to tell what might be
happening, and whether this is a K9 or MS/your environment issue,
and not much more that we can add.

Also, I don't remember seeing what android version or K9 release you
are using.

[Cindy and George Backstein]

I AM listening but I don’t think the COMPLETE picture is always being remembered. 

I have said MANY times this is from my HOME computer yet the replies back from some people say to contact the IT department where I WORK. 

Or that it is some exchange server which I believes has something to do with corporation WORK environments too. 

Please explain why K9 used to work fine with .doc files and now they no longer do if it has nothing to do with K9. 

 

On 6/9/2015 3:25:31 PM, Ola Thoresen (o...@nytt.no) wrote:
> I can guarantee you that k9 does not convert the files into winmail.dat.
> Your computer sends a winmail.dat and the _other_ mail clients converts
> this file _back_ to the original .doc.
> K9, however, does not know how to do that.
>
> Please listen to people who actually know how email works when they try to
> help you.
>
> On 9 June 2015 22:20:22 CEST, Cindy <back...@mchsi.com> wrote: Seth...

[Philip]

> Please explain why K9 used to work fine with .doc files and now they no longer do if it has nothing to do with K9.

Have you installed any Microsoft patches?

What mail client are you using? Has it been updated/patched?

Have you changed your anti-virus or firewall version or settings?

Are you certain that your ISP has not made any changes?
--
Philip

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail and newsgroups?

[Richard Vanni]

Cindy, Try this. When typing the first letter of the recipient move the cursor down to the suggested email and press DELETE. It has to do with clearing some kind of cache.

 Then enter the address manually. After this your attachments should be normal doc.-files. The next time you can use the suggestions again when typing an email address.

 

  

As you know I had the same problem with all kinds of attachments. I asked the persons from whom I was getting winmail.dat files to do this and from then the problem is solved.

 It is only difficult if you have to ask a lot of people. I only had to asked three people.

 

 

Op dinsdag 9 juni 2015 22:37:16 UTC+2 schreef Cindy:

[Ola Thoresen]

K9 works perfectly fine with .doc-files. I receive word documents almost every day.
However, for some reason, your computer has started to send them out as winmail.dat recently, and THESE files K9 does not understand.
Most other email software knows how to handle winmail.dat, and converts them back automatically. Hence you never actually see the winmail.dat-files in the other clients. K9 does not know how to handle them, and just leaves them as is.

Now why your computer sends them like that is impossible for me to know, but the conversion happens in the sender-end, not the receiver-end.

/Ola T

On 9 June 2015 22:37:13 CEST, Cindy and George Backstein <back...@mchsi.com> wrote:

I AM listening but I don’t think the COMPLETE picture is always being remembered. 

I have said MANY times this is from my HOME computer yet the replies back from some people say to contact the IT department where I WORK. 

Or that it is some exchange server which I believes has something to do with corporation WORK environments too. 

Please explain why K9 used to work fine with .doc files and now they no longer do if it has nothing to do with K9. 

 

On 6/9/2015 3:25:31 PM, Ola Thoresen (ola@ny! tt.no) wrote:
> I can guarantee you that k9 does not convert the files into winmail.dat.
> Your computer sends a winmail.dat and the _other_ mail clients converts
> this file _back_ to the original .doc.
> K9, however, does not know how to do that.
>
> Please listen to people who actually know how email works when they try to
> help you.
>

> On 9 June 2015 22:20:22 CEST, Cindy <back...@mchsi.com> wro! te: Seth...

> this is on my home computer going straight out on my cable internet. There
> is no IT department involved.
>
>
> I'm not sending winmail.dat files so I don't need a program to "handle"
> them. I just need K9 to stop converting a .doc file into a winmail.dat
> file.
>
>
> My computer is sending out .doc files. >
>
> My ISP is receiving .doc files.
>
>
> My ISP is displaying the .doc files just fine via their webmail both on my
> phone and on my computer.
>
>
> It is only when K9 receives the .doc file on my phone, that it then
> becomes a winmail.dat file.
>
>
> K9 used to be able to receive .doc files without converting them to
> winmail.dat files. This problem just started happening earlier this year.
>
>
> So it definitely has something to do with K9.

--
Mvh.

Ola Thoresen

[Cindy]

I have sent .doc files to any who have asked me for them.  If I missed anyone who has requested me to send them a .doc file I apologize.  Please send another request and I will send you one.

I am using a Samsung Galaxy S3 with Android version 4.4.2.

I am using K9 version 5.005

Thank you.

[Cindy]

Will type answers in CAPS below...Please let me know if you have any more questions.  Thank you.

On Tuesday, June 9, 2015 at 3:43:35 PM UTC-5, Philip wrote:

> Please explain why K9 used to work fine with .doc files and now they no longer do if it has nothing to do with K9.  

Have you installed any Microsoft patches? ON COMPUTER PROBABLY AUTOMATICALLY 

What mail client are you using? Has it been updated/patched? SENDING CLIENT IS MICROSOFT OUTLOOK 2007.  RECEIVING CLIENT ON COMPUTER IS MS2007.  RECEIVING CLIENT ON WEBMAIL IS WHAT EVER ISP COMPANY USES. RECEIVING CLIENT ON SAMSUNG GALAXY S3 IS K9.  ALL UPDATES/PATCHES SHOULD BE UP TO DATE.

Have you changed your anti-virus or firewall version or settings? NO

Are you certain that your ISP has not made any changes? YES.  THE FILE STAYS A .DOC OUT ON THE WEBMAIL ON BOTH THE COMPUTER AND ON MY PHONE.  IT STAYS FINE COMING BACK TO ME (I SEND MYSELF A COPY).  IT IS ONLY WHEN THE FILE COMES INTO K9 THAT IT TURNS INTO A WINMAIL.DAT FILE

[Seth Holmes]

On 06/09/2015 04:20 PM, Cindy wrote:
> Seth...this is on my home computer going straight out on my cable
> internet. There is no IT department involved.

Then you need to speak with your e-mail provider. This would appear to
be http://mediacomtoday.com/ They should have a tech support department
that can help you.

> I'm not sending winmail.dat files so I don't need a program to "handle"
> them. I just need K9 to stop converting a .doc file into a winmail.dat
> file.

This is what we are all trying to tell you. K-9 isn't turning *ANYTHING*
into a winmail.dat file. Either your e-mail client (Outlook) or your
e-mail provider (mediacomtoday) is making this conversion. K-9 does not
know how to convert winmail.dat files. *THAT* is the actual problem.

> My computer is sending out .doc files.

Probably not. You just think it is.

> My ISP is receiving .doc files.

Only if you're sending them .doc files, and that's no guarantee they
aren't turning them into winmail.dat files. If they're using MS Exchange
on the back end, it's very likely.

> My ISP is displaying the .doc files just fine via their webmail both on
> my phone and on my computer.

Sure, that's your mail provider. If they're set up to convert the files
to winmail.dat files (which is very much possible), then they are
obvious configured to convert them back.

> It is only when K9 receives the .doc file on my phone, that it then
> becomes a winmail.dat file.

No, it's a winmail.dat file with K-9 receives it. K-9 just doesn't know
how to turn winmail.dat files back into .doc files.

> K9 used to be able to receive .doc files without converting them to
> winmail.dat files. This problem just started happening earlier this year.

Something changed with with your e-mail client, or your e-mail server. I
suggest you speak with your e-mail provider.

> So it definitely has something to do with K9.

The only part K-9 plays in this is the inability to understand
winmail.dat files.

> I do not need K9 to "handle" winmail.dat files so they can be opened. I
> just need it to STOP converting .doc files into winmail.dat files.

Wrong. You need it to handle winmail.dat files. K-9 makes no such
conversion.

> PS: on the rare occasion (maybe once a year) I've seen someone else's
> files come into my computer as a winmail.dat file...my computer won't
> open or "handle" them either. K9 just needs to stop converting .doc
> files into winmail.dat files.

It isn't.

Read this article:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/138053



Cindy, either everybody else on the Internet is wrong and you're right.
Or you're wrong. I'd like you to consider those odds.

(And I'm ignoring any further posts to this thread because it's giving
me a migraine.)


--
Seth H Holmes
sho...@route-fu.net

[Richard Vanni]

Please try my solution posted at 22:48 and let us know if it helped. 

Op dinsdag 9 juni 2015 23:11:18 UTC+2 schreef Cindy:

[Richard]

I think Richard [Vanni] is on to it. If you read through this
"winmail.dat" document (including the "Email properties of a
Contact" section):

<http://www.slipstick.com/problems/outlook-is-sending-winmail-dat-attachments/>

you'll see that MS Outlook will "cache" a recipient's mail client
capability/characteristics. Once it has decided that recipient-X is
in the MS world it will use TNEF to encapsulate documents sent to
that address. In the MS email client world, TNEF is fine, but, given
that that's a MS-proprietary format, most other mail clients (e.g.,
K9) will see such attachments as winmail.dat.

Cindy, I suspect that at some point your contact entry for yourself
got cached that way - hence the change, though it is possible that
your mail service provider made the change on their side of things.

If clearing a contact's cache the way Richard suggested doesn't
work, read through this document as it describes various approaches,
depending some on the version of outlook you are using.

------------ Original Message ------------
> Date: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 02:16:44 PM -0700
> From: Richard Vanni <riva...@gmail.com>
>

[Voytek Eymont]

Cindy,

thanks for the test doc email, receiving as DOC on all my devices

old phone, K10 2.07: doc

old phone, K9 5.005: doc

new phone, K9 5.107: doc

looking at the email it has like text/plain followed by text/html followed by

------=_NextPart_001_075F_01D0A2DB.67EBAB60--

------=_NextPart_000_075E_01D0A2DB.67EBAB60
Content-Type: application/msword;
<------>name="Test document for opening on K9.doc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
<------>filename="Test document for opening on K9.doc"
<------>

so, I'm getting .doc

[joeblog...@gmail.com]

There are numerous Winmail.dat decoders on the internet, free, for Windows. I don't know if any exist as Android apps, but clearly the winmail.dat format is well known. I use a program under winXP called Winmail Reader which does it perfectly. (Beware because it's installation program dumps some adware junk onto your computer, so you have to Decline it during installation and possibly also uninstall it (Control Panel) afterwards.)

The winmail.dat attachment is the result of a dumb computer user having their Outl$$k program misconfigured to send a winmail.dat instead of the file itself. It's a pretty common thing and most of them have no idea why and if you tell them they have no idea how to fix it :)

[Cindy]

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this forum.  We have been so busy with our business that I had to give up trying to trouble shoot why the winmail.dat was showing up instead of a .doc with my attachments.  I have had a couple of customers say the same thing in the past too (besides it just starting to happen to myself earlier this year so I know it wasn't just me).  I didn't "delete" my email address but I also didn't just let it populate automatically one time and just typed the whole email address manually.  After that the .doc stayed a .doc when it arrived in K9 on my phone.  But it soon went back to converting the .doc to a winmail.dat file whenever I chose the auto populate so now I have deleted it and re-added it. 

But the question (or couple of questions) are

(1) how long before it decides to start affecting the .doc's again and

(2) what, if anything, can be done to permanently prevent this from happening again?

It took over 2 years with K9 before this started happening with it to begin with.  I'd love to get another two years before I have to mess with it again.

Thanks,

Cindy

[Richard]

As you basically proved with your address selection approach on the
outlook side:

- typed the whole email address manually. After that the .doc

stayed a .doc when it arrived in K9 on my phone

- went back to converting the .doc to a winmail.dat file whenever

I chose the auto populate

this is an outlook issue. In a document that I referenced some time
ago in this chain, outlook holds recipient document
selections/"preferences" in its addressbook. Once it decides that
the recipient can read winmail.dat files it sends things encoded
that way henceforth.

In short, this is NOT a K-9 issue, and there's nothing that K-9 can
do to control why/how your outlook addressbook gets/holds these
settings for any particular recipient. The document I pointed to
gave information on how to delete these preferences in outlook. If I
can find that message quickly I'll send a followup, otherwise you
might want to look at messages from me on in this general chain --
or do a little google searching.

------------ Original Message ------------
> Date: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 12:08:02 PM -0700
> From: Cindy <back...@mchsi.com>
>
>

[Richard]

Cindy -- Please read this document, I think it will help you
understand the outlook recipient properties/preferences caching
issue that you are encountering and approaches for dealing with it.

Outlook is sending winmail.dat attachments

<http://www.slipstick.com/problems/outlook-is-sending-winmail-dat-attachments/>


Good luck with your MS products.

[Cindy and George Backstein]

Thanks for the link. I re-read it about 5 times to make sure I am understanding it.

I see where if I am using rich text formatting this winmail.dat problem will occur but I am not using that. I am using HTML formatting for everything. And if I am understanding the article correctly, this problem should not be happening with plain text or HTML formatting.

So I am still not sure what I can do on my end since I am not sending things with RTF. I shouldn't have send everything plain text since HTML is supposed to be ok (not encapsulating everything inside a winmail.dat, including the word document I am attaching).

I've been an Outlook user for almost 18 years and a K9 user for over 2 years (maybe even 4 years) and this spring was the first time I started having this problem with my attachments turning into a winmail.dat file.

Just all very frustrating. Thanks for trying to help.

Cindy

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[Peter Holsberg]

U Buffalo people think the settings may be stored in an addressbook
cache for each user!

"You can clear your cache settings for a person if they are still
receiving Winmail.dat files from you. Create a new message, begin to
enter the email address, then use the arrow keys to scroll up or down,
highlight the address of the person and press the delete key to remove
the entry. Enter their address in the To field and it will create a new
entry."

What version of Outlook do you have?