Full Spectrum vs. Epilog

[Laurel Bleich]

Hi all,

We are in the processing of building out our Fablab.  And I could use help justifying spending the money for an Epilog Helix versus Full Spectrum laser cutter.  Any thoughts?

--

Laurel Bleich
Middle Grades Mathematics Teacher
STEAM Innovation Educator/Curriculum Coordinator

The Westminster Schools
1424 West Paces Ferry Road, NW
Atlanta, Georgia 30327

[Craig Lyndes]

Laurel,

Probably not what you want to hear but we have a Full Spectrum Pro 20x12 and are using it a lot.  Once I got the laser aimed (Full Spectrum tech support was very helpful) it has been dependable and trouble free.  90 Watt laser, BOCA HEPA Filter so we can vent it inside, industrial chiller, high volume air assist, $10,000 including shipping.

Craig Lyndes

St Albans City School

[Kate McAdams]

Hi Laurel sorry to make the decision harder but we have the Full Spectrum laser and are really not happy with it. The company is based in CA which makes support difficult. I have been using lasers for over 10 years now and Epilog has been very successful (however more expensive) but if you can afford it then absolutely.

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 3:31:45 PM UTC-4, Laurel Bleich wrote:

[Andrew]

Kate-

Can you describe the problems you've had with the Full Spectrum?

At NovaLabs we had a 100W Hurricane, complete with atrocious Windows-only layout software. But while the software was a headache, we never had any mechanical problems with the laser. We also never contacted support because ... China.

At CI we have an Epilog Helix. One of my colleagues uses the official Epilog-plugin for Windows Corel, and I use VisiCut. Again, there's a learning curve for the software stack, but the physical device is problem free.

Is there a realm of problems beyond maintenence of the filters, mirrors, and drivetrain that I've blissfully avoided?

--andrew
 

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[Christalee Bieber]

Our FullSpectrum 36"x24" doesn't seem designed for maintenance, compared to other laser cutters I've used. Specifically, the focus lens requires some heavy wrenching to access, and the 3rd mirror needs to be taken off entirely, destroying the alignment, if you want to be confident that you're cleaning the entire surface. (I may be doing it wrong - anyone else worked with one?) On those grounds alone, I would vote for Epilog, assuming they're more user-friendly, unless the price is a showstopper.

That said, other than a water coolant switch that was dead on arrival, our FS has worked pretty well for a couple of years now. I don't have much need to contact tech support but they've been responsive when I have.

Cheers,
Christalee
Technology Coordinator
Workshop School
221 S. Hanson St. Philadelphia, PA

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[Laurel Bleich]

Thanks for all the advice (and keep it coming).  We also are currently reaching out to the various schools in the Atlanta area. Once we compile the info, I'll send it out for other folks in the same boat.  

Cheers,

Laurel 

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Laurel Bleich
Middle Grades Mathematics Teacher
STEAM Innovation Educator/Curriculum Coordinator

The Westminster Schools
1424 West Paces Ferry Road, NW
Atlanta, Georgia 30327

T 404-609-6186

[Kate McAdams]

Andrew- we found the following problems with the laser cutter; the honeycomb bed is not secured and so the work is not always going to be square. The laser shot once and then it stopped working, when we ran the laser head along the axis we could see that the x and y axis was not attached square also. The lid was not fastened properly and so did not catch the magnet. When we rang the company we were told to unscrew the lid and fix our selves and run tests to fire the laser. Eventually we decided to return the laser and the company said it was damaged in the shipping and not their fault.

We have since not used our replacement yet so maybe it was a one off but I am not happy that there is also not a z axis so hoping to change to the TroTec.

In terms of software- unfortunately most software is Windows compatible and not Mac as the better companies have not marketed their software for Mac. 2D Techsoft is a brilliant windows vector software for laser cutters used throughout the world. However for Mac I would suggest corel draw.

Hope this helps.

Kate

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 3:31:45 PM UTC-4, Laurel Bleich wrote:

[Andrew]

Wow.  Ok, I take back my earlier ambivalence. If the price difference between Epilog & Full Spectrum means getting a cutter with misaligned axis, then spend the money!

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[Jason Mickelson]

Andrew,

Does Visicut work along with Corel Draw or instead of Corel Draw? Our Epilog is a couple weeks away from being installed but looking to get the software side figured out. We will be using a Windows work station.

[Andrew]

Visicut is a print driver, essentially. It replaces what the epilog plugin does in Corel or Illustrator after you hit CMD-P. 

On widows, there's no reason not to use the epilog drivers. You've already paid for them with the laser cutter!  We're a Mac school running AI CS5 - no epilog support to be found. VisiCut let us take work from Illustrator, or student workin Google Drawing, place them onto the work bed and cut. 

--andrew

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[cur...@brynmawrschool.org]

Hi Andrew,

I'm having some issues getting VisiCut to work on my Mac. Would you mind if I pick your brain a bit as to your setup? Every time I run the setup files I getting corrpotion errors on the files I've downloaded via GitHub.

Thanks,

Jusitn

[Laura Hollis]

I was debating these models too but now may consider this: http://glowforge.com/

I would love to avoid any kind of filtration that may include going through the window or roof!

Seems like it might be s nice option...

Sent from my iPad

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[Jeremy Sambuca]

Laura,

I have been following Glowforge for a while and finally got to see it in person and in action at MakerFaire yesterday. I was really impressed with how easy it was from start to finish. The web-based software and on-board camera makes it easy for students to drag and drop their design onto the material. They are also on pre-order with a 50% discount. The pro version comes with the 45W, upgraded cooling system, air filter and a pass through slot and passthrough software that allows you to use feed longer pieces. For those tight on space or limited options for ventilation, this would be an ideal option 

Jeremy Sambuca

Director of Educational Technology

The Hewitt School

212.994.2568

jsam...@hewittschool.org

www.hewittschool.org

@jsambuca

Hewitt empowers girls to discover their full intellectual and creative abilities, to pursue their passions and personal best, and to lead lives of consequence with character, compassion, and conviction.

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[Laura Hollis]

Thanks Jeremy! I'm on the train from TEDxMidatlantic and headed to Queens after that, will definitely check it out!  On a side note, some of you might enjoy some of the TED talks from midatlantic just this past weekend. They were all 
really great but the two most tech-related covering security, deep web, hacking and IOT are by Avi Rubin and Alex Winter. You can view the archived talks here: http://livestream.com/tedx/tedxmid

Laura Hollis

Sent from my iPhone

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[Karen Blumberg]

Lucky, Laura! My friend Dave Troy is one of the organizers and host of TEDxMidAtlantic, and I was supposed to go. 

Heads up about the upcoming TED Talks Live event in NYC in November. I'll be at November 1st's Education Revolution evening... https://www.ted.com/attend/conferences/special-events/ted-talks-live#h3--november-1-2-the-education-revolution

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[Cameron Moredock]

Hi All,

I am currently weighing the balance of an Epilogue versus a comparable Full Spectrum cutter. While this thread began as a FS versus Epilogue, it seemed to morph into different issues/interests. My take away seems slanted towards the negative with regards to people's exp with Full Spectrum, so I want to give any one with positive stories to share and opportunity to shine through. The price differential is SUBSTANTIAL, but I may be no seeing the forest through the trees here. I also remember reading that the two vendors use drastically different laser tubes? Does anyone have any more info re: that? Does one last longer than the other, and thus posed a potential hidden cost?

Laurel,

Where you ever able to get a compiled you'd be willing to share?

Look forward for feedback, as I really don't want to have regrets...

Thanks,

Cameron

[Laurel Bleich]

Hi Cameron,

We are going with the Epilog (actually I think we finally ordered it yesterday- yay!).  At the end of the day, it was the service component that sold us on the cost.  We worked with our vendor and got a 2 year warranty rather than the standard 1 year.  We didn't want to be bogged down with maintenance issues.  There is also 'free' (included in the cost) training involved with the Epilog.  It will be used by our Middle and Upper Schools and we needed something worry free (fingers crossed). 

As far polling local schools, a lot did not have them because they are crazy expensive. One school loved the Full Spectrum but they also were apart of that company's kickstarter.  We asked a fellow alum who works with laser cutters on a daily basis and he recommended Epilog hands down but also said not to overlook Trotec (we didn't even consider).  

I don't know if that helps or not but I can keep you posted on how it works once we get it.  

Cheers,

Laurel

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Laurel Bleich
Middle Grades Mathematics Teacher
STEAM Innovation Educator/Curriculum Coordinator

The Westminster Schools
1424 West Paces Ferry Road, NW
Atlanta, Georgia 30327

T 404-609-6186

[Craig Lyndes]

Cameron,

Our decision was largely driven by cost.  We had a budget to set up our maker space that would not support an Epilogue.  We got the Full Spectrum Pro 20x12 with a filter and a 90 watt upgrade for $10,000.  That left enough to purchase a Roland vinyl cutter and all of our supplies (lots and lots of supplies), arduinos and raspberry pies for LESS than a smaller Epilogue would have cost through their regional education dealer.  (we already had a Makerbot 3D printer)

Our experience with the Full Spectrum has been positive.  It set up easily, the laser tube needed aiming, and using email to their tech support we worked through several strategies until it was set up correctly.  Since then it has worked, no problems.  

I am a little frustrated in a second interaction with Full Spectrum, we needed to purchase filters for the BOCA exhaust filter.  BOCA wants us to purchase them through our vendor.  I wanted 5 primary filters ($37) and 1 HIPA ($399).  Through a comedy of errors it took 3 shipments and many phone calls to get the order right.

I agree that cleaning the lens and mirror is more difficult on the Full Spectrum.  They have an Epilog at the Generator, the maker space I'm a member of, and the lens and mirrors are out in the open and with a q tip can be cleaned in place.  The Full Spectum's lens is enclosed behind the air assist nozzle.  The 3rd mirror is enclosed in a metal case with a circular opening the size of a nickel for the laser to get through.  At the Generator they ask that the lens and mirror be cleaned every time someone uses it.  We just cleaned our Full Spectrum for the first time after 2 months of use, and it really wasn't that dirty.

The laser in the Epilog they have at the Generator (high end, not sure which model, probably 36x48 cutting bed) is in a metal case and is less than 2 feet long and maybe 6"x6" cross section.  The Full Specturm's laser is a glass tube about 4 feet long and about 5" in diameter.  So my guess is they are different technologies but I really don't know the details.

I hope this helps a little!

[Adam Singer]

Curious if anyone sitting at the cusp of purchasing their first laser cutter for their space is holding out hope for the Glowforge being released in December, or know how its design measures up with these considerations (ease of access to lens, aiming of laser tube, etc.)

 

Adam Singer

Technology Teacher

Davidson Middle School

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[Kate McAdams]

Hi Adam- we purchased the FS laser and are having a terrible time with it. Amongst the set up/ lack of support/ having to aim the laser mirrors yourself and now having to repeat strokes whilst cutting I am very against any further products from here. We have now decided to purchase the Glowforge and have put in the order- if the laser is as good as the video it will be miles ahead of the FS in terms of maintenance, ease of use etc.

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[Cameron Moredock]

All,

THanks for your further input. Definitely leaning towards just spending the extra $$$ and going with the Epilogue. I think in the long run, it will pay for itself.

Regarding the Glowforge, I am a little skeptical of the hype around their highly polished sales video. I found this reddit review that is only a few days old that seems to get at the truth of where they are with development. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/lasercutting/comments/3ms7ld/my_kinda_review_of_the_glowforge_3d_laser_printer/

I think in the long run, a consumer option will make itself evident in the market place. Remember how expensive the first LaserJet printers were and that they are practically toss out items these days. 

Thanks,

Cameron

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 12:31:45 PM UTC-7, Laurel Bleich wrote:

[Laura Hollis]

I ordered the glow forge! 

Laura Hollis

Sent from my iPhone

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[Diego Fonstad]

I too have been following glowforge  for a long time and admire their price, very clever feature list, usability and form factor. 

I would be surprised though if their integrated air handling system can support anything more than light use. 

No amount of clever engineering can get around the fact that a laser cutter works by burning materials and the most common FabLab materials, wood, cardboard or MDF, generate smoke and particulates.  We had a stand alone filtration unit at Castilleja and opted for external venting after the filters kept filling up.  I can't tell much about this unit's filtration but based on its small form factor, it must have a relatively small filter (hopefully multi-stage to remove the smell, but who knows) that would probably need to be replaced with high frequency if used extensively for cutting.

That said, if I were in the market for a new machine, I would seriously consider this one.  I wouldn't expect it to solve the traditional venting issues though...

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