ventilation for 3D printers and laser cutters

[Karen Glum]

Our middle school is in the very, very beginning stages of creating an "innovation lab" space and program.  Something we're concerned about is ventilation for our 3D printer and a future laser cutter.  The more I read about the particulates and fumes for the 3D printer, the more I am convinced we need to do this.  Given our space, a ventless mobile fume hood would work best for us.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

[Christine Mytko]

I am no expert on laser cutters, so I will leave that to the group.  But I do know a little about kids and 3D printers.

As far as 3D printers, it depends on the type of filament you use.  There was a study published last year (which I am sure you've read) showing a scary graph of UHFs that got everyone worried and buying enclosures for their ABS machines. I've been asking around since then, and I haven't found another study confirming the danger.  "They" say ABS can give you headaches, too, but I've been running a machine in my classroom for a couple of years now, and I have yet to have a kid complain about a headache or the smell.  They will, however, occasionally complain during a typical science lab. (The printers are in the science lab.)  This anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that the kids are not bothered by ABS running on one machine in a typical, door-opened classroom.  We also always stay within the suggested temperature ranges, since the best I've heard is the toxicity occurs when you burn ABS filament too high.  Now, if it was a small, enclosed space without windows,  or I was at home with an infant, I might think differently, but so far my school community is fine with it.  I'd also love to know if heating ABS is more problematic than, say, running the copy machine (also right next to a classroom) or having a school located on a busy urban street.

We also have a number of PLA machines, but those are considered relatively safe, according to the said study.

More on my opinion here: http://talesofa3dprinter.blogspot.com/2013/07/emissions-from-3d-printer-are-they.html

- Christine 

On May 24, 2014, at 4:00 PM, Karen Glum <karen...@7hills.org> wrote:

Our middle school is in the very, very beginning stages of creating an "innovation lab" space and program.  Something we're concerned about is ventilation for our 3D printer and a future laser cutter.  The more I read about the particulates and fumes for the 3D printer, the more I am convinced we need to do this.  Given our space, a ventless mobile fume hood would work best for us.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

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[Andrew]

A ventless mobile fume hood would be fine for any 3d printer. Like Christine, I run tons of and prints in classrooms with kids. Even reading that study closely, I'm confident that there's nothing particularly damaging about that practice. Just the middle school schedule keeps kids moving through the room so much that no one's sitting down for an epic dose of ABS fumes. 

Laser cutters are a different story. Ventilation is mandatory and expensive.  The particulars have been discussed on the list a few times. Head to the google groups web page and see if you can find the old threads. When I get to a computer I'll do the same. 

--andrew

On May 24, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Karen Glum <karen...@7hills.org> wrote:

Our middle school is in the very, very beginning stages of creating an "innovation lab" space and program.  Something we're concerned about is ventilation for our 3D printer and a future laser cutter.  The more I read about the particulates and fumes for the 3D printer, the more I am convinced we need to do this.  Given our space, a ventless mobile fume hood would work best for us.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

[Sammie Smith]

We ordered a BOFA fume extractor for our laser engravers.  We got it about two months ago and the difference between this system and our previous fan/blower/external vent system is unbelievable!  We love the BOFA.  The only downside was that we had two lasers and getting the tubing and valves situated for our setup was a struggle.

Sammie

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2014, at 5:00 PM, Karen Glum <karen...@7hills.org> wrote:

Our middle school is in the very, very beginning stages of creating an "innovation lab" space and program.  Something we're concerned about is ventilation for our 3D printer and a future laser cutter.  The more I read about the particulates and fumes for the 3D printer, the more I am convinced we need to do this.  Given our space, a ventless mobile fume hood would work best for us.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

[Karen Glum]

Sammie - would you be able to tell me which model you ordered?  Thanks.

[Jeremy Sambuca]

+1 on the BOFA fume extractor. My school purchased the Oracle.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/k-12-fablabs/b16d6c4b-aa46-4550-b68b-dfd53efe6f85%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe McRae]

+1 on the BOFA - We've had the Base 1 for the last year and it has been great.  We cut mostly MDF, cardboard and paperboard and the filters have lasted much longer than I expected.  Still no replacements needed - but your mileage may vary.  The Base systems are great for desktop lasers.  Noise levels are OK, but not ideal for a classroom setting.  If you can isolate your filter or the laser in anyway that would be ideal.  I know the Bourn Lab has just built a sliding glass divider for their laser cutter and we are planning something similar for our new lab.  

Joe

[Karen Glum]

This is helpful.  Could you also tell me which laser cutter you purchased?

On Sunday, May 25, 2014 6:00:22 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Sambuca wrote:

[Sammie Smith]

We also have the oracle.  And we have two epilog 60 watt helix laser engravers

Sammie

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joe McRae]

Hi Karen,

We currently have a Full Spectrum Hobby Laser, and are in the process of buying our second laser and have decided on a Trotec Speedy 300.  

Joe

[David Malpica]

We have a Quatro SPH-400 for our 40W epilog.

http://www.quatro-air.com/sph400.html

BOFA looks nice. Had I known about them, I might have looked into them.

Good luck, Karen!

[Karen Glum]

Sorry that my questions are so basic but I'm starting from zero knowledge base. So here's another - what features were you looking for when you made decisions about both your laser cutter and the ventilation system you chose?  Thanks again. Can't overstate how much I appreciate the help.

Sent from my iPad

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[David Malpica]

Epilog is a pretty robust brand. I had to consider a budget, a deadline, space, ventilation, and the electrical capacity of my building. For me it was convenient to get the Quatro filter along with our Epilog because it was what the vendor recommended and it fit in my space. The higher the wattage the faster and more reliably you can cut, therefore you can achieve higher cutting volume. I got a 40W but wished I had bought a 60W. You also want to consider things like vibration, so for example we got the air assist compressor, but it turns out the vibration affects cuts.

I'd tried a Full Spectrum machine and didn't like that I had to deal with water and a pump.

In terms of 3D printing, chances are that because the process is so slow you'll end up printing stuff overnight, so particula and fumes are not as big an issue if children are not present. I also recommend enclosed 3D printers, which help with that. PLA is also a good idea, presumably the human body can degrade it more easily than ABS?

Hope that helps!

[Jonathan Rothman]

Hi Joe - My school is investigating ventilation options for a Full Spectrum Hobby Laser.  The Base 1 looks promising.  I love that it can double a surface for the cutter.  Do you remember how much the Base 1 is?

Jonathan Rothman

Academy for Software Engineering:  www.afsenyc.org

On Monday, May 26, 2014 7:29:23 AM UTC-4, Joe McRae wrote:

+1 on the BOFA - We've had the Base 1 for the last year and it has been great.  We cut mostly MDF, cardboard and paperboard and the filters have lasted much longer than I expected.  Still no replacements needed - but your mileage may vary.  The Base systems are great for desktop lasers.  Noise levels are OK, but not ideal for a classroom setting.  If you can isolate your filter or the laser in anyway that would be ideal.  I know the Bourn Lab has just built a sliding glass divider for their laser cutter and we are planning something similar for our new lab.  

Joe

On Sunday, May 25, 2014 6:00:22 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Sambuca wrote:

+1 on the BOFA fume extractor. My school purchased the Oracle.

On May 25, 2014 3:02 PM, "Karen Glum" <karen...@7hills.org> wrote:

Sammie - would you be able to tell me which model you ordered?  Thanks.

On Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:55:54 PM UTC-4, Sammie wrote:

We ordered a BOFA fume extractor for our laser engravers.  We got it about two months ago and the difference between this system and our previous fan/blower/external vent system is unbelievable!  We love the BOFA.  The only downside was that we had two lasers and getting the tubing and valves situated for our setup was a struggle.

Sammie

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2014, at 5:00 PM, Karen Glum <karen...@7hills.org> wrote:

Our middle school is in the very, very beginning stages of creating an "innovation lab" space and program.  Something we're concerned about is ventilation for our 3D printer and a future laser cutter.  The more I read about the particulates and fumes for the 3D printer, the more I am convinced we need to do this.  Given our space, a ventless mobile fume hood would work best for us.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

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[Joe McRae]

The Base 1 was ~$3000 CDN.  

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 1:35:57 PM UTC-4, Jonathan Rothman wrote:

Hi Joe - My school is investigating ventilation options for a Full Spectrum Hobby Laser.  The Base 1 looks promising.  I love that it can double a surface for the cutter.  Do you remember how much the Base 1 is?

Jonathan Rothman

Academy for Software Engineering:  www.afsenyc.org

On Monday, May 26, 2014 7:29:23 AM UTC-4, Joe McRae wrote:

+1 on the BOFA - We've had the Base 1 for the last year and it has been great.  We cut mostly MDF, cardboard and paperboard and the filters have lasted much longer than I expected.  Still no replacements needed - but your mileage may vary.  The Base systems are great for desktop lasers.  Noise levels are OK, but not ideal for a classroom setting.  If you can isolate your filter or the laser in anyway that would be ideal.  I know the Bourn Lab has just built a sliding glass divider for their laser cutter and we are planning something similar for our new lab.  

Joe

On Sunday, May 25, 2014 6:00:22 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Sambuca wrote: