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Cannon on Abe Lincoln in 20000 leagues

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quentin skrabec

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Dec 15, 2024, 6:46:28 PM12/15/24
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in 20000 leagues
p. 20 miller translation  p 22 Walter translation

the Abe Linclon has a breech loading cannon " model of the 1867" 
Walter reads "made in America."
miller - "American origin
BUT there were no American-made breechloaders in 1867---the Krupp ( and a Hungarian model) were in the highlight of the 1867 Exposition  but no Krupp cannons were used in Civil War -- still checking 1870 when Verne wrote the book
the Americans did purchase some British Whitworth breechloaders during the Civil War not made here 
projectile weight in 20000 would fit the 
I will continue to reascrh the technical issues

My question could the "American made" or American origin" be a translation issue   maybe "owned by Americans???
any ideas 
quent

Tad Davis

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Dec 15, 2024, 7:04:32 PM12/15/24
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Im looking at the French — I believe this is the passage you’re referring to, though the text I have is a Kindle version of unknown provenance. 

“Sur le gaillard d'avant s'allongeait un canon perfectionné, se chargeant par la culasse, très épais de parois, très étroit d'âme, et dont le modèle doit figurer à l'Exposition universelle de 1867. Ce précieux instrument, d'origine américaine, envoyait sans se gêner, un projectile conique de quatre kilogrammes à une distance moyenne de seize kilomètres.“

The phrase “d'origine américaine” sounds to me, with my admittedly rudimentary understanding of French, like Verne is saying the cannon was designed and manufactured in America. Maybe he was fudging a bit?

— 
Tad Davis
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quentin skrabec

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Dec 15, 2024, 7:47:19 PM12/15/24
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Thanks for your look at it
I believe now it's a Verne screw-up ( he was usually right on when it came to Civil War cannon)  — I believe it was a Whitworth breechloader  - the Krupp was a bigger gun for a ship- 
I know Latin but no French but , d'origine américaine, seems like American made
While there was experimentation going on by 1870, i will continue to dig in archives of Scientific American

Thanks so much. I know these seem like minor points of technology, but they drive me crazy, and I always worry it's a translation issue. If I make an error, Civil War buffs, who are everywhere in this country, will show no mercy on me.  🙂 🙂


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Jean-Louis Trudel

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Dec 17, 2024, 8:56:36 PM12/17/24
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Hi,

To my mind, considering the indirect context of the World Fair (which
could have influenced Verne's sentence), "d'origine américaine" could
simply mean something like "sent in by the Americans", or "submitted
by the U.S.", but not necessarily "made by" or "manufactured by". The
"origine" can also refer to a point of departure.

Jean-Louis Trudel
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John Lamb

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Dec 18, 2024, 4:07:39 AM12/18/24
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'Cannon sent in by Americans'

There is precedent for this. The Prioleau Blakely cannon erroneously reported to have fired the first shots of the American Civil War, was British made 'but sent in by the American' Charles Kuhn Prioleau from Liverpool, England. 

Please see the attachment. 

As I maintain that the Nautilus is inspired by the Confederate American Civil War Commerce raider  CSS Alabama then the equivalent of the fictional ship Abraham Lincoln would have been the USS Vanderbilt, donated by the richest man in the world Cornelius Vanderbilt to President Abraham Lincoln in a fruitless campaign to track down the CSS Alabama.

Her  year long search took the USS Vanderbilt to the West Indies, South America, St Helena, the Canary Islands and Portugal. 

Sadly the USS Vanderbilt had American armaments only on board so here the  comparison with the fictional Abraham Lincoln breaks down, if the Vanderbilt had been armed with French cannon then perhaps this would have been a hidden reference by Verne to countries like Britain and France arming both sides in the American Civil War. 

Both Cornelius Vanderbilt and Charles Kuhn Prioleau were members of the Royal Mersey Yacht Club of Birkenhead, the club whose yacht Deerhound rescued the Alabama's captain  Raphael Semmes from the English Channel after the Alabama was sunk by the USS Kearsarge. The American Civil War was indeed fought by friends who became enemies and then friends once again. 

As stated I always try to interpret the Nautilus and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea from a 'CSS Alabama Birkenhead perspective' (see below) as this more than often produces results and I do not think my summary below is just a list of 'coincidences'. Sometimes (like in this case) comparisons with the CSS Alabama do not pay off, but the important thing is that it makes you look and as the Prioleau cannon gained some celebrity at the time I am sure Verne knew of its existence and its symbolic meaning for both the Confederacy and for the Union as a sign of reconciliation after the conflict. 

I hope the attachment is of interest

Best John

According to Jules Verne in his novel 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (1870).


The hull of the Nautilus was constructed in secret at Lairds shipyard of Birkenhead and completed on a remote island for Captain Nemo, whose motto is Mobilis in Mobile. The Nautilus cruised 20,000 Leagues (70,000 miles) in three oceans and sunk numerous ships creating worldwide concern amongst shipping companies. The warship Abraham Lincoln of the United States navy under its Captain Farragut is sent to find what is assumed to be a ‘sea monster’ and a bounty of $2,000 is put on her head.  



According to Raphael Semmes in his Memoirs of Service Afloat During the War Between the States (1870). 


The hull of the CSS Alabama was constructed in secret at Lairds shipyard of Birkenhead and completed on a remote island for Captain Raphael Semmes from Mobile, Alabama. The CSS Alabama cruised 70,000 miles in three oceans and sunk over 60 Unionist ships, creating worldwide concern amongst shipping companies. President Abraham Lincoln put a bounty of $250,000 on Semmes’s ‘sea monster’ and instructed Admiral Farragut of the United States navy to find her.

The Prioleau Cannon.pdf

quentin skrabec

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Dec 18, 2024, 6:51:26 PM12/18/24
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Thank you-- all this is very helpful

William Butcher

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Dec 18, 2024, 7:37:03 PM12/18/24
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Dear all,

As far as I know, the only document that has been cited as a probable source for Verne's canons is:

Revue maritime et coloniale, vol. 24, septembre 1868, p. 316-338, « Les Canons sous-
marins. Extraits. Rapports sur l’exposition universelle de 1867 ».

However, this article, as the title says, is about underwater cannons.

best

bill


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quentin skrabec

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Dec 18, 2024, 8:14:47 PM12/18/24
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Again, thanks so much for all the scholarly responses 


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mken...@aol.com

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Dec 19, 2024, 5:17:11 AM12/19/24
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Hi Quent,
«I believe now it's a Verne screw-up»
That’s possible, but it’s still a work of fiction. There is a fictional ship with a fictional cannon. It *can* be based on a real cannon, but if it isn’t, that is the author’s choice. In my opinion, both translations that you quoted above are correct – "made in America" sounds good to me. There’s an American ship with an American cannon.
Cheers,
Matthias

quentin skrabec

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Dec 19, 2024, 12:45:30 PM12/19/24
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Of course your right --its fiction- but Verne's strength was to put in factual history to bring his readers along. 
Quent


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