Jules Verne and Livonia

[Tad Davis]

I’m working on Verne’s novel A Drama in Livonia. I’m discovering how complex the political and ethnic situation was in the Baltics in 1876. And one thing keeps coming up.

This is going to be an oversimplication, I’m sure, but it goes roughly like this. There are two main indigenous groups in the three Baltic provinces: the Estonians and Latvians. Neither are Slavs.

For six centuries, they were living under German colonial rule. Germans still control the government, the church, the language, and the police.

Peter the Great took Estonia and Livonia from Sweden and later took Courland from the Lithuanian-Poland Confederation. Those are the three Baltic Provinces. The Germans, who sided with Russia in the wars, were allowed to continue in their dominant role. At that point Russians—the Slavic population—began increasing. Saint Petersburg has begun an effort to “Russify” the provinces, basically to switch the minority-in-power from Baltic Germans to Baltic Russians.

OK, that’s the background. Now we have dialogue like this, from someone identified as a Russian Livonian:

"Après tout, notre ville ne compte que quarante-quatre mille Allemands contre vingt-six mille Russes et vingt-quatre mille Lettes… Les Slaves y sont en majorité, et cette majorité sera pour Nicolef.”

[After all, our city has only 44,000 Germans compared to 26,000 Russians and 24,000 Latvians. The Slavs are in the majority, and this majority will support Nicolef.]

Um—no. The Slavs have 26,000, as opposed to 68,000 people in other groups with different agendas. The Latvians are not Slavs, although they will occasionally ally with them for situational and opportunistic reasons.

Or this, from another Russian Livonian:

"Depuis sept cents ans, depuis la conquête, nos paysans, nos ouvriers, ont résisté à la pression des conquérants, et ceux-ci sont restés en dehors du pays!”

[Our peasants and workers have been resisting the pressure of the conquerors for 700 years, and the outsiders are still in power!]

Um—no. Not the Russian Livonian peasants and workers; the Latvian and Estonian peasants and workers, with whom you have little in common. You haven’t been here for 700 years. You are newcomers representing the new conquering empire.

I haven’t finished reading the book yet. I don’t know how Verne works out this tangle, or whether he shares this apparent confusion on the part of his characters. Do they think the Estonians and Latvians are Slavs? Does he? Were they considered as such when he wrote the book? Am I missing something?

Tad

-- 

Tad Davis

tad.dav...@gmail.com

[Garmt de Vries-Uiterweerd]

An interesting question, Tad. I do think that Verne was simply mistaken. Here's another quote, from ch. 6:

Au-dessous de ces classes privilégiées, et qui se sont imposées dans les provinces Baltiques, végètent ces paysans, ces cultivateurs, ces agriculteurs sédentaires, – un million au moins, – qui forment la véritable population indigène. Ces Lettons, parlant leur ancien idiome slave, tandis que l’allemand est resté la langue des citadins, s’ils ne sont plus des serfs, le plus souvent se voient traités comme tels, parfois mariés malgré eux, lorsqu’il s’agit d’accroître le nombre des familles dont les seigneurs ont le droit d’exiger une redevance.

In ch. 3 he does seem to know the similarities between Ests and Finns: 

De fait, ceci est exact. Dans les provinces Baltiques, les nobles, les citoyens honoraires, bourgeois et marchands, sont presque exclusivement d’origine teutonne. Il est vrai, bien que converti par ces Allemands, catholiques d’abord, protestants ensuite, le peuple n’a jamais pu être germanisé. Les Esthes, ces frères des Finnois, et les Lettes, presque tous agriculteurs sédentaires, ne cachent point leur antipathie de race pour ceux qui sont leurs maîtres, et à Revel, à Dorpat, à Pétersbourg, nombre de journaux s’occupent à défendre leurs droits!

Verne needs the conflict between Germans and Russians for his plot, and it doesn't seem very relevant where the Latvians stand.

Cheers,

Garmt

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jules Verne Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to jules-verne-fo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/5877EFE1-E65B-467A-941F-2CD5E2DBB719%40gmail.com.

[Tad Davis]

Garmt—

Thanks - I was familiar with the second paragraph but haven’t gotten to the second one yet. 

As I pursue this topic further, it seems to get more rather than less complicated. Latvians are not Slavs (my apologies if I’m continuing to mangle this) but are distantly related. Still, in terms of the political situation in Livonia and the status of Russification in 1876, from the standpoint of the Latvians, it seems that Russia wanted to replace the 700-year-old minority interlopers with the 200-year-old minority interlopers. But the Russians themselves may have seen the indigenous people as cousins. 

— 

Tad Davis

tad.dav...@gmail.com

[William Butcher]

Also, it's a slight simplification to equate, for example, Russians and russophones. In Canada, I would not talk about French and English, but francophones and anglophones.

---

From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 5, 2026 5:11 AM
To: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [JVF] Jules Verne and Livonia

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jules Verne Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to jules-verne-fo...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/FB89CC3E-0F39-43FA-AD1B-372711B5CE5F%40gmail.com.

[Jan Rychlik]

A drama in Livonia is set about the time Russia uplifted Estonians and Latvians in order to use them as a leverage against the German population with the ultimate goal of russification of the Baltic territory. In 1870, for instance, there was a reform which favored Estonians, Latvians and Russians in municipal elections. A part of nationalist movement was indeed pro-Russian and favored even instruction in Russian language and adoption of cyrilic (instead of latin script) for Latvian language. In 1880s, under the new czar, farther steps against Germans (e.g. ban of German instruction at the University of Tartu in favor of Russian language) further strengthened the position of Estonian and Latvian people at the costs however of russification. Though I do not know if the Russian regime ever presumed Estonians and Latvians were Slavs, it was actually referring to both languages as mere dialects.

I think this all was too subtle for Verne and too inconvenient for the story (see North against South for similarly superficial treatment of political situation in the South). But even more important is the source which Verne used. France was Russian ally and thus prone to accept Russian propaganda or Russian nationalist writings. 

Alternatively it might have been a source conform to the views of the pro-Russian wing of Latvian/Estonian nationalist movement. 

5. 3. 2026 v 0:21, William Butcher <wbutch...@gmail.com>:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/BN7PR14MB2114233FBCD1D6FBF431B285FA7CA%40BN7PR14MB2114.namprd14.prod.outlook.com.