Oh No! he still has questions about Begum's Millions

[quentin skrabec]

I continue my research into the sources for Verne’s accuracy and understanding of the “secret” Krupp cannon-making in Begum’s Millions. I'm closing in on some loose ends.  One loose end is the possibility that Paschal Grousset may have contributed to the details of Verne’s steel process.  Although I find it highly unlikely that Grousset knew or understood such metallurgical details.

Many consider Paschal Grousset[i] (1845 - 1909) to be at least the co-author in the sense that many believe the “story” and framework were those of Paschal Grousset, and there is good evidence that Verne’s editor purchased the storyline[ii]. Grousset published under the pseudonyms of André Laurie, Philippe Daryl, Tiburce Moray and Léopold Virey. Indeed, there is support that the France-Ville of chapter 10 fits Grousset’s political ideas. Chapter 6, “The Albrecht Mine,” gives the reader the feel of something patched in or merged from a different manuscript.  Some merging and blending of two manuscripts was probably the case or at least biblical source patching in some chapters.  However, Chapter  5 on the cannon process feels like pure Verne to me.

As far as the process espionage, military, German Krupp conpamy records, Krupp personal lettters and industry records it is possible (but I believe highly unlikely) that Grousset could have researched the same reports. Without help Grousset however would have needed help to piece the science together.

Here are my questions to the forum

1.      Are there any records of areas of specific Grousset contributions in Begum’s Millions? Any sources besides those noted in Stanford Luce’s notes of Grousset’s role? Is there any place where Verne mentions any role of Grousset? How about Grousset and Verne’s editor?

Hopefully, I can finally put this into a newsletter article about the insights from French military/espionage and Krupp letters on the process and secrecy. In a few years, I believe two other metallurgists and I will publish a research article on the Krupp and Verne process of a very in-depth nature, more suited for Historical Metallurgy and Archaeology publications.   

Thanks Quent

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[i]  Grousset published under the pseudonyms of André Laurie, Philippe Daryl, Tiburce Moray and Léopold Virey.

[ii] Jules Verne, Begum’s Millions, org. 1879, Stanford Luce translation, Wesleyan University Press, p.xvi-xvii; Also Sullivan, H. I. “Dirty Nature: Ecocriticism and Tales of Extraction - Mining and Solar Power - in Goethe, Hoffmann, Verne, and Eschbach.” Colloquia Germanica, 44(2), 111-131.

[Garmt de Vries-Uiterweerd]

Dear Quentin,

There's not much "many consider" about it: from the correspondence between Verne and Hetzel it is absolutely clear that the original manuscript was sold to Hetzel, to have it revised and improved by another author and to be published under that author's name only. Jules Verne was mentioned by the go-between as a suitable candidate.

Verne read the manuscript and shared his criticisms with Hetzel. After a bit of back and forth between the two, Verne decided to enhance/rewrite the novel. I attach the letter in which Verne talks about Krupp (he clearly recognized the factory in Grousset's description) and about the scientific accuracy of Grousset's description of the cannon. (Note that Verne calls the author "l'abbé", the intermediary who sold Hetzel the document.)

From the correspondence Verne-Hetzel, it's impossible to deduce exactly which parts of the novel have simply been edited for style, and which parts have been completely rewritten.

Cheers,

Garmt

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[volker.dehs]

I fully agree with Garmts answer but think that some details of Vernes changes can be deduced from the correspondence in many long and substantial letters which cover around 30 pages, I think.

If there is no Verne autograph manuscript of this novel, that's probably because Verne realized his corrections, cuts and modifications of Grousset's original text directly on the proofs, as he did with the two other Grousset novels he rewrote for Hetzel, and the different volumes of the Découverte de la Terre (1878-1880) and its unpublished continuation. This shows hat his intervention must be relatively reduced, especially as this re-working took him only 4 weeks, more or less!

Some fragments of the the original Grousset ms survive at the Bibliothèque nationale and the Amiens Bibliothèque municipale. The whole chapter which was the first version of the end of the text has been published by me in the Bulletin de la Société Jules Verne no. 123 (1997), pp. 37-41, another less important fragment published and commented by me in the Japanese Verne revue Excelsior! no. 4 (2010), pp. 16-27. There are several other articles published on the question of Verne's rewriting of Begum, for example by Yves Chevrel (1978) and more recently by Philippe Scheinhardt.

Best, Volker

[William Butcher]

Asuperb summary by Garmt.

 I covered the last chapter of the novel in manuscript form with a chapter in my Jules Verne inedit.  basically I identified 3 or 4 different handwritings, meaning identification of authorship is tricky.

bill

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Subject: Re: [JVF] Oh No! he still has questions about Begum's Millions

 

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[quentin skrabec]

THANK YOU  - i of course agree on Grousett's role on ms. I had secondary sources on the Verne-Krupp factory note - but I will have these letters translated. Clearly, Krupp and his factory were the framework used by both men. The cannon design itself was well known to the world, as well as some general factory outlines. The metallurgical process was not, and the real-life story of espionage by France and England is the story I want to write that offers new insights into the industrial espionage story of Begum's Millions.

The specific points/sources - the general comments you guys have noted - would leave open the possibility of Grousett having some input there for the metallurgical details, which required a depth of scientific knowledge, making it very unlikely that Grousett had the depth. But of course Grousett had done scientific writing with the help of others.  

 
My interest is still in the sources of metallurgical process details, which are unique to the Krupp process. i will try to attribute the process sources to the collective "Begum's Millions," Grousett/Verne, or Verne while noting joint authorship. The process sources could have been under covered by either - I can't completely disprove the possibility, while again not a major point for my process analysis and story of espionage for the article. i personally strongly favor Verne, particularly in Mysterious Island, where Verne -showed knowledge of steel metallurgy was at the cutting edge-  ( this is another article i have completed but not published)

After all your comments and my own process research, I do feel that I should use the "collective" ownership of the story research without giving Verne complete credit, even for the metallurgical details, without clear fingerprint identification, which may not be possible. I am not a typist so excuse all the typos and spelling errors

Thank you

your help and expertise is much appreciated. 

[quentin skrabec]

I forgot the most important reason I favor Verne for chapter 5 Begum's Millions cannon process details is Verne's From the Earth to the Moon cannon making—- In particular, in this 1868 novel  , Verne details the use of synchronized crucible casting, which was the heart of the Krupp process and unique to Krupp and necessary for large cannons (iron or steel) 

1. So one last question  I hope  any evidence that Grossett had any involvement with From the earth to the Moon?
2. I m also doing a full search into Grossett's background

Thanks agian for this last but to me critical question

Quent

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[volker.dehs]

no, Grousset had no involvement with the Moon novels nor any personal contact with Verne, but he was a very attentive reader of his works

[quentin skrabec]

Thank you - that helps

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[William Butcher]

Earth to the Moon was published in 1865 not in 1868!

It’s great to have new perspectives on old ideas. But It  is essential to start from Verne's text and not foreign sources, otherwise we’ll go into more endless discussions of possibilities and coincidences – and create more difficultly-eradicable myths…

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[quentin skrabec]

Yes, you are correct - I used the English edition pub date 1868 - everything starts with the VERNE text with research, but the research question is what are the possible sources for Verne's story details. 

Not clear on "foreign sources" comment  except German to confirm some process points validity

 my main key source is nine-volume series of artillery manufacturing studies in 1865 (see last paragraph)by French science journalist, artillery expert, metallurgist, and publisher, Francois Julien Turgan.[i] Turgan documented the Krupp factory in Germany and other European cannon factories, focusing on its military artillery, design, and manufacturing processes. His account provides a detailed, illustrated record of the operations at Krupp during the mid-1860s.  also a French military reports- 

I'm not dealing with "coincidences" but potential sources available to Verne for specific process details-- please, please. Please, please, let's not start this coincidence stuff. Furthermore, I'm asking experts like yourself. I understand as a biographer you want extreme purity, but even you use "coincidences" in your biography. - please I don't want to start trouble  however  - BUT look at your suggestions of the sexual nature of Verne's works based on possible coincidental word associations (page 158) - research is the formulation of hypotheses or questions based on observations. 

THIS is NEW

The key source for Verne on Krupp’s secret cannon making could have been the nine-volume series of artillery manufacturing studies in 1865 by French science journalist, artillery expert, metallurgist, and publisher, Francois Julien Turgan.  Verne clearly knew Turgan and his works, Turgan published a type of popular science magazine as well. Turgan documented the Krupp factory in Germany and other European cannon factories, focusing on its military artillery, design, and manufacturing processes for the French government. His account provides a detailed, illustrated record of the operations at Krupp during the mid-1860s. More importantly, Turgan shared studies and the FRENCH book illustrator Jules Ferat. Both had studied steel puddling and puddlers, describing them as “half-naked Cyclops” in both their works (i know this could a coincidnece BUT it was used by well known researcher in noting the works/comparisons of Vene and Ferat and Turgan IN

Artisans Abroad: British Migrant Workers in Industrialising Europe, 1815-1870

 Search in this book

https://doi.org/10.1093/oso/9780198835844.001.0001

Online ISBN: 9780191873300

Print ISBN: 9780198835844

Publisher: Oxford University Press

On the trail of many cross connections right now.

LAST QUESTION I PROMISE!

However can I assume  Jules Verne did not use Jules Férat's illustrations for Begum's Millions; rather, the illustrations for that novel were done by Léon Benett.

nine-volume series of artillery manufacturing studies in 1865 by French science journalist, artillery expert, metallurgist, and publisher, Francois Julien Turgan.[i] Turgan documented the Krupp factory in Germany and other European cannon factories, focusing on its military artillery, design, and manufacturing processes. His account provides a detailed, illustrated record of the operations at Krupp during the mid-1860s.

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[i] K.W. Michaelis and E, Monthaye, Visit to Krupp Works, Leopold Classic Library, Org. Publication 1888, p. 50

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[i] K.W. Michaelis and E, Monthaye, Visit to Krupp Works, Leopold Classic Library, Org. Publication 1888, p. 50

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[quentin skrabec]

Last night my European book agent said there was a 1900 edition Les cinq cents millions de La Bégum; suivi de Les révoltes de la "Bounty" that used FRENCH book illustrator Jules Ferat CAN THIS BE POSSIBLE???

The book would cost me $300 and University of Michigan translating another $600 

Quent

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From: quentin skrabec <qrsk...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2025 7:48 PM

[Garmt de Vries-Uiterweerd]

Sounds dodgy, Bégum was illustrated by Benett and Bounty by Drée. Ferat had nothing to do with either title.

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[quentin skrabec]

Thank you - I thought it could not be possible - but I track down every possible lead in research; an outlier can be significant if validated.  Thank you, saved me some money- will have the wife cook a bigger turkey! I already spend a fortune on this because of my lack of French - and my university French courses are not improving me fast enough to be of immediate use. 

quent

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[William Butcher]

The main sources of information about where Jules Verne got his ideas from, built up by the selfless activities of researchers like Jean-Michel, Wim and others,  are in order: the margins of the draft manuscripts where Verne sometimes notes down his sources with page number indication included; the copious correspondence with his family and his publishers; the secondary literature; the text of the novels themselves; the interviews with journalists and others; and the other manuscripts.

 

Hoping that helps!

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From: William Butcher <wbutch...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2025 7:00 AM

[quentin skrabec]

 agreed - thanks for explaining -    I do think we need selfless researchers that would translate or digitize these Verne notes etc- that would be a truly selfless research effort that would open the world to more researchers, 

Researchers who don't speak French or have access to the documents are handicapped. The Najvs has done some great work, but a translation project, digitization, or bilingual editions of Verne are badly needed to expand  multidisciplinary research on Verne. in effort in my own small way I m investing and working on this with the university of Michigan - I would be happy to donate to such an effort

Again Bill this is NOT aimed you - but I would not agree with the term for some as "selfless researchers" some of these correspondence articles are clearly restricted to French and that's their right. And i believe all should be rewarded for their efforts and don't blame them in trying to maintain their linguistic and geographic advantage.  Some of these selfless have i  ( and i could be wrong) believe weaponized their French and document access to limit others research hypothesis and suggestions downplaying secondary sources of those who read the original documents and shared it in their articles.  that is why I use the forum so much. Nash and others like him are selfless in that organize and publish raw list data and writings to help others. I respect all of them ( more then they ever respect my research on Vernia tech and engineering).

Thanks and best wishes. Quent

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[William Butcher]

Quentin, Mostly agreed. I didn't want to emphasise the language aspect but it's true that it’s at the centre of the issue. and if documents can be digitised then of course they can be translated automatically. it's also true that French has undergone a dramatic decline in recent decades and that English is the widest-used international language for the communication of research. in fact some Verne documents have been digitised in recent years but cannot be distributed freely because of copyright problems…

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[quentin skrabec]

Thank you for the insight n the copyrights

Quent

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