Martin Paz

[Tad Davis]

I have a decision to make, and I'm hoping to get some other opinions to take into consideration. 

I'm working on a new version of Martin Paz. This will be an audiobook and may end up as a printed text as well. But the main goal is the audio, and that to some extent governs my approach. 

The problem I'm having is this. I love the story, but I hate the antisemitism that is so prominent in the characterization of Samuel, and the casual racism that is evident to some extent even in the treatment of the indigenous and mixed-race characters. 

I'm thinking of making some changes, and I'm wondering at what point it slides over from translation into adaptation. I'm OK calling it an adaptation if that's what it is. I'm just not sure where the line is. Any changes I make will be clearly documented in an afterword, so anyone reading it (or listening to it) will know where it varies from the original. 

First off, Verne tends to refer to people by their ethnicity rather than by name. Martin Paz is often "the Indian," André Certa "the mestizo," and Samuel "the Jew." One simple change is to use character names rather than ethnicity wherever the context allows it. (This applies only to the omniscient narrator. Comments made by characters about each other remain as is.)

A more difficult problem is "the Sambo." This is the leader of the native community. Why Sambo? Unless I've been misinformed, the word derives from zambo, the term for those of mixed native and African heritage, and clearly the native leader is not a zambo. And worse, "sambo" is a terrible racial epithet in the US. As I understand it, the correct term for the leader of the Quechua community—the native group most common in Peru, and to which Martin Paz and the others would most likely belong—is "Kuraka." I would be inclined to change "the Sambo" to "the Kuraka."

I even wonder about the term "Indian." I've been told "native" is a more neutral term and would be historically accurate; and that specificity (i.e. "Quechua") would be even better. Accusations of political correctness don't worry me in the least. Calling people something they find offensive is what concerns me. If this were a print project, footnotes might suffice, but again, this is primarily an audio project, intended for people with no prior exposure to the story. If they have to wait till the afterword to find out why I used a term they find offensive, they might not get that far. 

About that anti-semitism again. There are two passages (sentences, really) where Verne attributes motives to Samuel that blacken his character far beyond the requirements of the story and are racist plain and simple. I'm inclined to omit those sentences from the text and discuss them in the afterword. He remains the chief villain of the piece, but clearly Verne thinks Samuel is a villain because he's Jewish, and that's what I find objectionable. He's bad enough without the additional baggage. (In one way, this is an extension of an existing trend. The original serialized version of the story, as evident in its Palik Series edition and the discussion by Daniel Compére, is even more explicitly antisemitic, with chapter titles like "The Jew Always a Jew." When issued in book form, this was already toned down and several such passages deleted.)

So what I'm trying to figure out is this: should I drop the project altogether, because the changes, minor as they seem to me, amount to a Michel Verne-style rewriting? Or make the changes and clearly label it an adaptation? Is the goal to accurately reflect Verne or to create an entertaining audiobook? I'm not a professional translator or academic; I'm an audiobook narrator. At the same time I want to do as little violence to the original as my conscience will allow me.

 

Tad Davis

— 
Tad Davis
tad.dav...@gmail.com

[Chris Moser]

You would be denying reality if you attempted to soften Verne’s racism

And its not enough to say Verne was a product of the times

Our favourite author has a major character flaw

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jules Verne Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to jules-verne-fo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/49ebd616-0926-483e-94c5-5533b42dca73%40Spark.

[Darek Powell]

Tad,

I could be wrong, but when I was reading it, I thought Sambo was his name, not title. It may derive from the same place when Verne came up with the name though.

-Darek J Powell

Treasurer, NAJVS, Inc.

darekj...@gmail.com

Matthew 6:25-34

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/CANmOh_%2BcFKt%2Bj9pv4viXoERRVpcGKcf8QcC3x0%3DMUUXR8A1cTA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tad Davis]

He’s referred to pretty consistently as “le Sambo,” which makes me think it’s a title, or analogous to “l’Indien” (the Indian), “le juif” (the Jew), or “le métis” (the mestizo).

 

If I feel like I can’t in good conscience narrate it, I might still (rather than discard the work to date) present it in a form that accurately reflects Verne but with all the footnotes I would want to see. 

— 
Tad Davis
tad.dav...@gmail.com

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/CAHbuG-%2BTN3zECPSHVK7OzBjpCu8gHHXf1swv2eRzozd7vhiFog%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tad Davis]

Chris,

 

Yes—it’s distressing. As a narrator, it was particularly difficult in the case of Robur. Fortunately in that case Alex Kirstukas’s excellent introduction dealt forthrightly with the racist depiction of Frycollin, and the introduction was included in the audio. Maybe that’s what I need to think about doing here. 

 

Tad 

— 
Tad Davis
tad.dav...@gmail.com

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/CANmOh_%2BcFKt%2Bj9pv4viXoERRVpcGKcf8QcC3x0%3DMUUXR8A1cTA%40mail.gmail.com.

[William Butcher]

A well-written intro would certainly help, but might still not be enough...

Joyeuses fetes to all,

Bill

---

From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2025 6:53 AM
To: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [JVF] Martin Paz

 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/ac9c216c-3aae-4f21-81ba-f951cc8e214a%40Spark.

[quentin skrabec]

you know how i feel no book should ever be intentionally changed- use an audio note if it seems wrong to you. Woke has no place in a literary translation. an author's words must stand as is -- its the first amendment of literature, Quent

[Tad Davis]

My thanks to everyone. You’ve helped me wake up from whatever it was I was trying to talk myself into. Chalk it up to my thinking out loud among friends. I’ll stick as close to Verne as I can (keeping in mind that my bias toward audio will require an occasional paraphrase or “embedded footnote”) and will trust to Foreword, footnotes, and Afterword to do the rest. The decision about whether to narrate it will have to wait. 

 

Tad

— 
Tad Davis
tad.dav...@gmail.com

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/a0dfbb03-51da-4d79-92e8-eb324bde9422n%40googlegroups.com.

[Tad Davis]

It may be amusing to others to read the AI confabulation I encountered when, as an experiment, I asked it what “the Sambo” might signify in the novel Martin Paz. This is what Google’s Gemini told me:

 

In Jules Verne’s Martin Paz, Sampaio is a character's last name (or surname), and he serves as a pivotal figure in the Indigenous uprising.

While "the Sambo" (Manrique) represents the mixed-race faction, Sampaio represents the pure Indigenous Peruvian (Inca) faction. Here are the key details about his role:

• Identity: He is an elderly, influential Indigenous chief (often referred to as the leader of the Indians of the mountains).

• Relationship to Martin Paz: He is the adoptive father (and political mentor) of the protagonist, Martin Paz. He rescued Martin and raised him to be a leader for their people.

• Character Motivation: Sampaio is a radical nationalist. He is obsessed with the idea of overthrowing Spanish rule and restoring the ancient Inca Empire. Because of this, he is the primary antagonist to Martin’s romance with Sarah; he views Martin’s love for a "Spanish" girl as a betrayal of their race and their revolutionary cause.

• The Contrast: Unlike "the Sambo" (Manrique), who is portrayed as more chaotic and violent, Sampaio is depicted as a stern, dignified, yet fanatical figure who values racial purity and the historical destiny of the Sun-worshipers.

 

Now, unless Michel Verne did a version of the novel I don’t know about, or this is based on some film version of the story, this is a complete fabrication. Manrique and the Sampaio don’t exist, although it’s an interesting solution to the dilemma. Sampaio seems to be a conflation of the Sambo and Don Vegal. 

 

Tad

— 
Tad Davis
tad.dav...@gmail.com

[James D. Keeline]

I am glad to see that you identified which AI system (Google Gemini) you were using to get this.  There are vast differences between AI systems.  A ChatGPT (or one derived from it that uses a different name) is more likely to make up content if it doesn't find a document to paraphrase.  I have found Gemini to be more reasonable on this score with fewer instances of presenting a "hallucination" as an absolute fact as ChatGPT will cheerfully do.

The AI summary at the top of a Google search does not seem to be Gemini by default.  Perhaps when using the "deeper" link, it may be.

Martin Paz is not a story I know well.  But if there are some name changes between the French editions (serial and book) and English translations, that could be important to the overall reception of this portion of the story.  If a 19thC translator changed Sampaio to Sambo because it sounded similar, that could introduce stereotypes and other negative connotations.  A clearer understanding of this is needed for your project.

James D. Keeline

p.s.  I use Claud

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/e97536de-a707-4fd1-a635-cf743ef6fc75%40Spark.

[quentin skrabec]

Tad

This is a great example of what I have been saying about AI 

The database and database base networks links is key - Google uses data from its own forums, etc., which is often incorrect. for example  in AI Jules Verne things from are own forum will pop up dangerous ideas like mine might end up in your search 🙂Also, the algorithm has a frequency factor, so if you repeat a myth, legend, or pure lie, it can become AI factual. Wikipedia has a high factor in the algorithm as well.  The  Author Rights movement, which is a good thing, often means an important book might not be included in the search. I'm actually making good money selling some of my little read books to databases!!!

AI can write a good essay or a biography on Jules Verne, but it can't deal well with specific questions like yours very well (yet that will change as the database improves and the algorithm is honed. It can do fairly good with a general generic reasach paper like "compare Wells to Jules Verne" - but very limited on accuracy for a paper such as  Did Verne predict the raise of Hitler in his character Harry Killer  - although it would be interesting reading! Basically would throw all the shit in the database at you

Translations -- I have talked about before - it is very good  at taking today's  English to today's French- it probably years away from correctly dealing with word time periods, etymology, old technical terms (such as carbonic acid - as carbon dioxide) but it will learn based on the popularity of the book or author. 

However, don't write off its research potential for well learned researcher, just like the use of  Wikipedia. Its weakness of including obscure data in its database such as forums can actually give a researcher a lead to follow- it also includes more original references to check on. I use google AI mode and Google regular search 

Quent

---

From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>

Sent: Friday, December 26, 2025 11:33 AM

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Jules Verne Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/jules-verne-forum/Wf22-ZczPKI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to jules-verne-fo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/e97536de-a707-4fd1-a635-cf743ef6fc75%40Spark.

[Tad Davis]

This was the Google Gemini iPhone app—I don’t know specifically which level of AI was doing the summary. 

 

There is a character called Le Sambo in French and “the Sambo” in all the English translations I’m aware of (by George Towle, Ellen Frewer, and Anne Wilbur). There is no character in either language called Sampaio or the Sampaio. 

 

There is no character called Manrique in the story. The character called Le Sambo is never called anything else. If he has a name, we never learn what it is, but since he’s clearly Martin Paz’s father, we can surmise that his surname is Paz. In that case, the only character in the book without a surname, in a significant maneuver of dehumanization, is Samuel the Jew. He’s always either Samuel or the Jew or the old Jew.

 

If The Sambo is intended to be a title, the appropriate Spanish title—according to Gemini, of course!!—would be El Cacique, and the appropriate native title would be the Kuraka. Wikipedia at least agrees on the latter. 

 

There is a character who adopts Martin Paz and protects him, but it’s short-term, and the character is the Spaniard Don Vegal. I believe “the Sampaio” is Gemini’s conflation of The Sambo with Don Vegal. 

 

I have a feeling I may end up with more footnotes than text. But that’s OK. I’ve never met a footnote I didn’t want to write. 

 

Tad 

— 
Tad Davis
tad.dav...@gmail.com

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/CAGvpz0_-RvgN4mY9kCw%3DyGe_Gai_wkVKfLyM1ZAfLwxx7dpEuA%40mail.gmail.com.