El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz

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mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 9:08:53 AMJul 27
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Hello connoisseurs,

I have two questions.
1) How many translations into Spanish are there of Le secret de Wilhelm Storitz? Is there just one?

The one I found on the Web starts as follows:
Capítulo I
Y tan pronto como puedas, apresúrate a ve- nir, mi querido Enrique; te aguardo con impacien- cia. Por lo demás, el país es magnífico, y esta región de la Baja Hungría es muy a propósito para desper- tar el interés de un ingeniero; aunque no sea más que desde este punto de vista, no te pesará haber hecho el viaje. Tuyo, MARCOS VIDAL
Así terminaba la carta que recibí de mi hermano el 4 de abril de 1877. Ningún signo premonitorio señaló la llegada de esta carta, que llegó a mis manos del modo habitual, es decir, por la mediación sucesiva del cartero, del portero y de mi criado, el último de los cuales, sin sospechar siquiera toda la trascendencia de su acción, hubo de presentármela en una ban- deja, con su acostumbrada tranquilidad.


2) Why does it say 1877 instead of 1757? Is it an OCR error maybe?
Note: It's obviously not the "Version d'origine" that was published in 1985 or so. That version does not have the sentence about the servant handing the first-person narrator the letter.
(After the first paragraph (the letter) it goes on like this:
"Je ne regrette pas ce voyage, mais ai-je raison de la raconter? N'est-il pas de ces choses qu'il vaut mieux ne point dire, et d'ailleurs, qui ajoutera foi à cette histoire?")

I'm looking forward to hearing from you :)

Best wishes
Matthias

Ariel Pérez Rodríguez

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Jul 27, 2021, 9:34:27 AMJul 27
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Hello Matthias,

In Spanish, there are two main translations:
1- The one based on the book published by Hetzel, the novel that was modified by Michel.
2- Another one published, if I am not mistaken, by Plaza y Janés with the original Jules' text.

Number 1 may have variants through time. The first edition was published by Saenz de Jubera around 1911.

Best,
Ariel

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mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 9:45:28 AMJul 27
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Hello Ariel,

Thanks a lot! Do you have the Saenz de Jubera or a reprint of it? Does it say 1877 in that translation? (My second question above:
2) Why does it say 1877 instead of 1757? Is it an OCR error maybe?
Note: It's obviously not the "Version d'origine" that was published in 1985 or so.)

"Así terminaba la carta que recibí de mi hermano el 4 de abril de 1877."

Best wishes
Matthias

Ariel Pérez Rodríguez

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Jul 27, 2021, 9:49:46 AMJul 27
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The publication from Saenz de Jubera says 1757

image.png

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 9:45 AM 'mken...@aol.com' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Hello Ariel,

Thanks a lot! Do you have the Saenz de Jubera or a reprint of it? Does it say 1877 in that translation? (My second question above:
2) Why does it say 1877 instead of 1757? Is it an OCR error maybe?
Note: It's obviously not the "Version d'origine" that was published in 1985 or so.)

"Así terminaba la carta que recibí de mi hermano el 4 de abril de 1877."

Best wishes
Matthias

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mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 10:02:46 AMJul 27
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Thank you! That's very interesting. There seem to be at least two different translations, or maybe the one that I quoted above is a reworking of the Saenz de Jubera? I'll copy and paste it for your convenience:

"Y tan pronto como puedas, apresúrate a venir, mi querido Enrique; te aguardo con impaciencia. Por lo demás, el país es magnífico, y esta región de la Baja Hungría es muy a propósito para despertar el interés de un ingeniero; aunque no sea más que desde este punto de vista, no te pesará haber hecho el viaje. Tuyo, MARCOS VIDAL
Así terminaba la carta que recibí de mi hermano el 4 de abril de 1877. Ningún signo premonitorio señaló la llegada de esta carta, que llegó a mis manos del modo habitual, es decir, por la mediación sucesiva del cartero, del portero y de mi criado, el último de los cuales, sin sospechar siquiera toda la trascendencia de su acción, hubo de presentármela en una bandeja, con su acostumbrada tranquilidad."

It says 1877, but that's not the only difference…

Ariel Pérez Rodríguez

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Jul 27, 2021, 10:24:26 AMJul 27
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After Jubera, mainstream publications were by Molino, Orbis and now RBA.
It is possible that there were new translations, but an error like this one in a date, mmm
Where did you get that text from? from which source? Some website?

On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 10:02 AM 'mken...@aol.com' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Thank you! That's very interesting. There seem to be at least two different translations, or maybe the one that I quoted above is a reworking of the Saenz de Jubera? I'll copy and paste it for your convenience:

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mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 11:58:25 AMJul 27
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Thank you! As I said above, I found it on the Web, but I did not provide the link, sorry. Here it is:
You can click on "Download the book" or "Buch herunterladen", or maybe that text will be in Spanish if the website scans your IP address.

The mistake is indeed strange. Probably the book was scanned, so it could be an OCR error.

Rafael Ontivero

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Jul 27, 2021, 2:46:11 PMJul 27
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Plaza & Janés does not have “El secreto de Wilhelm Soritz”, nor Aguilar. 

Orbis edition is based in same as Jubera, as it is RBA.

The only pending question if is Molino or Sopena did a new transtlation, but I guess no.

I’m attaching here parts of Orbis’ Storitz.

Clearly, mken, it is an errata in transcription. 

Except the new Plaza & Janés edition, 84-01-32887-X from 2001 (and possible re-editions), that is based in the original written by Verne, all other editions seems to be the same. For example, this edition does not have the first paragraph with the date (and this reminds me that I haven’t read yet this edition purchased in 2017).



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mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 3:51:29 PMJul 27
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Hello Rafael,

Thank you! So where may the version that I quoted have come from? Is this Storitz’s new, second secret? :D  It must be so, since even experts like you do not know the origin of the other version ;)

I’ll post a bit more:
"Análoga fue la tranquilidad mía, mientras abría la carta y la leía de cabo a rabo, hasta estas últimas líneas transcritas, que sin embargo, contenían, en germen, acontecimientos verdaderamente extraordinarios en los que iba a verme mezclado.

¡Tal es la ceguera de los hombres! ¡Así es como va tejiéndose, sin cesar, y sin notarlo, la trama misteriosa de su destino!

Mi hermano acertaba en sus presunciones; no me pesa haber llevado a cabo este viaje, pero, ¿hago bien en contarlo? ¿No es una de esas cosas que es preferible callarlas?

¿Quién llegará a dar crédito a una historia tan extraña, que ni el más audaz de los poetas se habría atrevido a escribir?

Pues bien, ¡sea lo que quiera! Me decido a correr todos los riesgos; se me crea o no, cedo a una irresistible necesidad de revivir toda aquella serie de sucesos extraordinarios, cuyo prólogo viene a hallarse constituido, en cierta manera, por la carta de mi hermano."


Does it look good to you? Is it an accurate translation? Is it old style Spanish or modern?

Best wishes
Matthias

Rafael Ontivero

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Jul 27, 2021, 4:20:59 PMJul 27
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Matthias,

Let’s put some coherence here.

Verne has been translated into Spanish as soon as Verne published in French. Those translations came from Gaspar and Roig (it is a unique name) and then Sáenz de Jubera, who continued translations when Gaspar and Roig crashed. Those translations were done until 1920 more or less, and contains the entire Verne opus, including Barsac.

Along years, those translations were modernised (and corrected some orthographic severe errors) as Spanish language evolved, until today. RBA and partially Orbis used those translations, modernising them. Orbis did about 1986-88 and then RBA some years later. 

Apart of that, other editors did other translations, like Molino, Sopena or Aguilar. Old Plaza & Janés “Red” edition (9 books about 2000 pages each) were based in Molino and Sopena translations, done, say, starting 1940 until 1970 or so.

Then other editors did specific verified translations like Anaya or Planeta, but only for the most important books. And could be other translations unknown by us, as Verne has been translated (and summarised) across the years.

Wilhelm Storitz is not a so famous novel, and I can confirm it is not in Plaza & Janés and Aguilar because I have those. Then your translation of Wilhelm Storitz is from original Jubera as text shown is exact of my Jubera. Has been directly got from Jubera? I don’t know, and investigate that is a very time consuming labor I’m not going to do. But I’m pretty sure text you’ve copied here is exact (without the date errata) in Jubera… and Oribs and RBA.

However, I have another Storitz edition in Molino “Textos íntegros”, but I’m living in the Netherlands and that book is in Spain and I cannot confirm now… but could do next month as I’m going to travel to Spain.

All of those editions (including yours) come from the Michel Verne modified edition. 

There is a new edition published by Plaza & Janés in 2001, based in the original Verne manuscript. And I can confirm to you that your edition is not that. 

mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 4:32:16 PMJul 27
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Thank you, Rafael!
>Then your translation of Wilhelm Storitz is from original Jubera as text shown is exact of my Jubera.
Does your Jubera look exactly like Ariel’s Jubera? (See the scan in his post.) (The text that I posted is definitely not identical to the text in Ariel’s scan. And I’m not talking about the date here.)

Christian Sánchez

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Jul 27, 2021, 4:34:07 PMJul 27
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Yo tengo los siguientes libros:
El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz E Sopena Argentina 0 1947 C. Campoamor
El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz (original) E Plaza & Janés 0 2001 Rosa Alapont
El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz E Difusión 0 1952
El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz E Valle de México 2 0 1968
El secreto de W. Storitz E Molino Argentina 0 0
El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz E Orbis 0 1988 Sáenz de Jubera
El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz E Orbis 0 1988 Sáenz de Jubera

mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 4:55:33 PMJul 27
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Thank you, Christian!

So it could be the 1947 Sopena, translated by C. Campoamor.

Or the Molino, translated by "E. M.":

Or the Difusión, translated by "E. D. A.":

Or the Valle de México? Translated by whom?

Christian Sánchez

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Jul 27, 2021, 5:16:40 PMJul 27
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Las anónimas son variantes de la de S. de Jubera.

Puedes compararlas desde esta carpeta:

mken...@aol.com

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Jul 27, 2021, 5:53:20 PMJul 27
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Thanks a lot, Christian! That settles it. It’s the Molino, first published (probably) in 1940, and reprinted in 1950 etc. Also reprinted by Valle de México.

@ Rafael: Thanks for having offered to check up on the Molino!… but it is not necessary any longer.

I think the only differences in the first two paragraphs are the date and "desde" instead of "bajo":
aunque no sea más que desde este punto de vista, no te pesará haber hecho el viaje (see above)
aunque no sea más que bajo este punto de vista, no te pesará haber hecho el viaje

Best wishes
Matthias

Rafael Ontivero

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Jul 28, 2021, 2:20:50 AMJul 28
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On 27 Jul 2021, at 22:32, 'mken...@aol.com' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thank you, Rafael!
>Then your translation of Wilhelm Storitz is from original Jubera as text shown is exact of my Jubera. 
Does your Jubera look exactly like Ariel’s Jubera? (See the scan in his post.) (The text that I posted is definitely not identical to the text in Ariel’s scan. And I’m not talking about the date here.)


Yes, it looks the same… because it is *my* scan. ;-). Both my two Jubera editions are the same.


Rafael Ontivero

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Jul 28, 2021, 2:22:21 AMJul 28
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On 27 Jul 2021, at 23:53, 'mken...@aol.com' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot, Christian! That settles it. It’s the Molino, first published (probably) in 1940, and reprinted in 1950 etc. Also reprinted by Valle de México.

@ Rafael: Thanks for having offered to check up on the Molino!… but it is not necessary any longer.


Ok.

mken...@aol.com

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Jul 28, 2021, 5:41:58 PMJul 28
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>I think the only differences in the first two paragraphs are the date and "desde" instead of "bajo"
I should have said three paragraphs, not just two. The third paragraph consists of the long sentence that starts with "Ningún signo premonitorio" and ends with "con su acostumbrada tranquilidad". As far as I can tell, it’s identical in the excerpt that I posted and in the Molina.

>Yes, it looks the same… because it is *my* scan. ;-). Both my two Jubera editions are the same.
OK, sorry, I had misunderstood your statement "as text shown is exact of my Jubera". Thanks for the scan :)


Copy and paste from another thread:

guillo.g...

02:24 (vor 21 Stunden) 

an Jules Verne Forum

Ref.: rafael.... schrieb am Dienstag, 27. Juli 2021 um 20:46:11 UTC+2:

The only pending question if is Molino or Sopena did a new translation, but I guess no”.

 I have El secreto de Wilhelm Storitz by Editorial Molino, Barcelona 1960, and it states to be a Translation of Le secret de Wilhelm Storitz, by “E M.”

Guillermo

 

chvsa...

07:47 (vor 15 Stunden) 

an jules-ve...@googlegroups.com

E. M. means Editorial Molino, they just modernized S. de Jubera's translations.

Argentinian La Nación and Sopena always did new translations, breaking the links with the Old World and taking the position of a new cultural power.


Aus <https://groups.google.com/g/jules-verne-forum/c/GgJz1wPXlf4>

mken...@aol.com

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Jul 29, 2021, 5:31:37 PMJul 29
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>E. M. means Editorial Molino
Thanks. I thought as much when I read Guillermo’s post.

>they just modernized S. de Jubera's translations
Thanks, I did not know that. I thought it was a new translation because there are some differences.


Thanks again to everybody!

"What do you need that information for, anyway?"
I have written a review of a new "translation" into German of the novel. It starts as follows:

Und sobald du kannst, beeil dich zu kommen, mein lieber Enrique; Ich erwarte dich mit Ungeduld. Ansonsten ist das Land großartig, und diese Region in Unterungarn ist sehr gut geeignet, um das Interesse eines Ingenieurs zu wecken. Auch wenn es nur aus dieser Sicht ist, werden Sie es nicht bereuen, die Reise gemacht zu haben. Von dir,

MARCOS VIDAL

Damit endete der Brief, den ich am 4. April 1877 von meinem Bruder erhielt.

It says "mein lieber Enrique" (mi querido Enrique) and the letter is signed by "Marcos". That is nonsense in a German translation; of course it should be Henri and Marc.

There are also lots of mistakes, so (all in all) it must be a machine translation from Spanish.

Also, the date is wrong; 1877 instead of 1757.

I needed to know which translation the new "translation" is based on so that I can name the source. The mistake as to the year came in handy. I found a PDF-file online that has the same mistake, see above. Then with your help I found out that it is extremely probable that the Molino is the source (as to the details, see above). The "translator" looked for an eText (as I did later), found the PDF, entered the text into his software and got a "translation" into German under the title "Wilhem Storitz ’Geheimnis". Even the title has two mistakes: "Wilhe(l)m" is missing an "l", and the apostrophe would have to appear directly after the "z" at the end of "Storitz" instead of directly before "Geheimnis".

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