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1865 M. Verne article an express of future

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quentin skrabec

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Dec 19, 2024, 12:58:53 PM12/19/24
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is there a separate 1865 article by M, Verne "Express of the Future"
see attached article

mken...@aol.com

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Dec 19, 2024, 1:01:27 PM12/19/24
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It was published on September 1, 1888:

quentin skrabec

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Dec 19, 2024, 1:10:09 PM12/19/24
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Wow   thanks so much   . This tunnel proposal is putting Verne in the news
Quent


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mken...@aol.com

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Dec 19, 2024, 1:27:48 PM12/19/24
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I had the link handy because I want to make a new translation into German. Maybe you can help by looking at (and commenting on) a technical detail:
«the ends of the tubes were joined to each other, and incased in a triple netting of iron, the whole covered with a resimous preparation to preserve it from the action of the seawater.»
«Il montrait ces tubes eux- mêmes s’allongeant sans cesse sous les flots par sections de trois mètres vissées les unes aux autres, raidis dans l’étreinte puissante d’un triple filet à mailles de fer recouvert d’un enduit résineux.»

Does it make sense? Is it based on technology that existed at the time or was it made up by Michel?

Cheers,
Matthias

quentin skrabec

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Dec 19, 2024, 2:56:56 PM12/19/24
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Thanks again
Yes — it makes perfect sense -  the design of iron netting and resin is similar to the transatlantic cable design of 1866 — of course a larger scale the core was covered with hemp saturated in a resin preservative solution, and on the hemp were helically wound eighteen single strands of high tensile iron wire for strength produced by Webster & Horsfall Ltd of Hay Mills Birmingham
r/ThingsCutInHalfPorn - close-up of a cable Transatlantic Telegraph Cable – Obscure ... Section of 1st Trans Atlantic Cable, 1858 | The grand daddy … | FlickrJoined tubes of transatlantic cable


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Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 1:27 PM

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Subject: Re: [JVF] Re: 1865 M. Verne article an express of future
 

mken...@aol.com

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Dec 19, 2024, 3:11:24 PM12/19/24
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Fantastic! Thank you, it really helps. Thanks also for the pictures, they help a lot in understanding what Michel’s tubes would have looked like, what that netting would have looked like.

I have one more question about that sentence. The English translation simply says the tubes were "joined" while the French is more precise: "vissées" – "screwed". Was this the normal way back then? Was welding available?

quentin skrabec

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Dec 19, 2024, 5:25:30 PM12/19/24
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Underwater welding was far away from reality.
Screwed, i believe would be correct  — Verne does use screws and threaded bolts to build modular parts in his novels - of course most ships of the time and Verne's fictional used hot bolted or riveted plates which would be a hot operation -  but screws ( or nut and grooved "bolts)) would be used for underwater construction.
In the Adventures of Three...........  Verne was clearly using threaded bolts in his river cruise ship 


From: 'mken...@aol.com' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2024 3:11 PM

mken...@aol.com

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Dec 19, 2024, 5:39:30 PM12/19/24
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Thanks again! It’s really helpful, and there are more descriptions of technical details, so I’ll probably get back to you. For example, I wonder what exactly is meant by the "mailles de fer"
  • mesh, the gap between threads in cloth etc.
  • link (in chainmail etc.)
Wiktionary https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/maille

Jan Rychlík

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Dec 20, 2024, 2:29:23 AM12/20/24
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Indeed, welding was available since 1881. There is no mention of underwater welding in the short story as the tubes are being laid the same way as the Trans-atlantic cable.
Yet I too translated "screwed" into Czech (i did not consult the English version), though other types of connection fitting the French word "vissées" are possible to imagine such as socket, flange, or just male to female connection of each individual pipe. 
I do not think Michel ever cared about feasibility. Still some hint may be found in the Boston Globe 1888 interview with John Harwood Pierce upon which Michel story is based.
Jan


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mken...@aol.com

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Dec 20, 2024, 3:17:29 AM12/20/24
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Fantastic, thank you! I didn’t know the interview. I have found it http://www.bushwah.com/names/interview.htm
but I can’t find a scan of the original. Do you have a scan and could you post it here?

Jan Rychlik

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Dec 20, 2024, 9:37:13 AM12/20/24
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Hi, I do not have but this very transcription. 
As for the "maille de fer", Pierce helds that the tubes would ve laid “after the manner of the cables”, so I think that the tubes would ve braided the same way as Trans-atlantic cable. My translation: "well reinforced with triple iron braid coated with resin".

20. 12. 2024 v 9:17, 'mken...@aol.com' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>:



quentin skrabec

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Dec 20, 2024, 10:58:29 AM12/20/24
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Great article- and a great research lead for me. 
Interesting theories of Colonel John H. Pierce  - i think scaling up transportation tubes and laying like the transatlantic cable would not be possible,  But it would depend on the size of the tubes.   But i need to read more on Pierce's proposal to be sure
Will get the biography of Pierce!!!  Sounds like i need to read it
You are right. Davy did Iron welding experimentally as early as 1808 using battery electric arcs and Faraday improved on it in the 1840s. Auguste De Meritens in France, used the heat of an arc for joining lead plates for storage batteries in the year 1881. It was far from a large production tool  which, but assuming done above the water would be enough for Verne to extrapolate into the future to weld tubes.
Cable laid hi-res stock photography and images - Alamy 
Quent                      laycable.jpg



quentin skrabec

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Dec 20, 2024, 2:36:28 PM12/20/24
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You guys started me down this technological  rat hole
There are plenty of engineering seeds for Verne’s idea—
Joining is left vague in proposals like Col. Pierce (he seems to be a bit of a P.T. Barum) –his proposal was to cross san fransciso bay about 4 miles
In 1861 to 1890 there were some short range pneumatic people systems but these were too rigid for across the Atlantic tube
Verne’s futuristic design
«the ends of the tubes were joined to each other, and incased in a triple netting of iron, the whole covered with a resimous preparation to preserve it from the action of the seawater.»
 
Verne’s design would at least have the strength and flexibility but joining is vague except some type of “screw system.”
Here some notes on 1861 london tube
1861 Trial Puematic tube
.
“In the summer of 1861 passengers on the steamboat to Chelsea watched with interest the experiments held on the bank of the Thames. Near the open quay which adjoined the premises of the Southwark and Vauxhall Waterworks near Battersea pier they could, see exiting an engine house, about 450 yards (0.4km) of black, iron tubing half sunk in the ground. First taking a winding turn, it then followed the bank of the river. Through the 2’ 9” (759mm) high and 2’ 6” wide (836mm) iron tube, four-wheeled carriers were blown.
The Pneumatic Despatch Company built an experimental tube on the banks of the Thames at Battersea, adjacent to the Victoria railway bridge. Illustration from The Illustrated London News, 24 August 1861
The tube itself was formed of sections of cast iron, nine feet (2.74m) long, nearly an inch (25mm) in thickness. Each was cast in one piece, weighed about a ton (907kg) and resembled a D lying on its side. Sections were fitted into each other with a socket joint packed with lead.
Quent socket lead joint goes back to the Roman bridge builders –it would not be feasible for transatlantic tube construction
 
 Within the tube were cast raised ledges 2″ (51mm) wide and 1″ (25mm) high. These formed the rails on which the carriages 



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Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 10:58 AM
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