how did Verne really feel about industrial progress versus social and environmental issues
quentin skrabec
Ok, Guys – I need some help, comments, ideas, etc., so I'm throwing things out for comment – it’s a bit rough ( I skipped good editing to get the ideas out) and might be a bit emotionally strange to some of you. Maybe it will lead to discussion????
I am looking at Verne’s relationship with coal (carbon). Verne can be ambiguous about coal; on the one hand, he seems to hate its pollution and health concerns, while on the other hand, he sees it as the king of industry and science.
He often seems to see coal as inexhaustible and yet sees it as finite, requiring replacement in the future?
Verne can, at times, create Dickens-like cities, but he adds parks, etc
In Underground City, his characters lament the decline of coal mining, seeing a romance in coal mining,
Coming from heavily polluted industrial Pittsburgh of old and now a clean city but with the death of the steel industry – I understand the romantic memories. The great Bessemer coal-lit skies of the nights rivaled the aurora borealis of nature, and the days reminded me of all the pollution problems. But as a youth, the awe of industry overshadowed any downsides. The might of the steel industry and its industrialists were awe-inspiring for a youth. THIS may seem crazy BUT I have romantic memories of polluted Pittsburgh as the city of steel. I feel Verne had this romantic ambivalence for coal and industry too.
Thoughts????????? Do any of you harbor un-woke feelings and ambivalence of the awe of industry versus its health/pollution issues.?
Quent
wbutch...@gmail.com
In JCEarth, Verne said coal will last a very long time, but changed it after Hetzel read the ms (sorry about the abbreviations).
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quentin
Thank you
Quentin R. Skrabec Jr., Ph.D.
St. Eloi Consulting
6609 Buck Creek
Maumee, Ohio 43537
Cell 419 349 0933
Verne: Past, Present, Future at paris2060.blogspot.com
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quentin skrabec
wbutch...@gmail.com
Quentin,
It’s nearly always better to revise texts that are going to be read by a considerable no. of people: form and content and all that. A counsel of perfection I know, but you do have to make the reading experience as pleasurable as possible (not that I always follow my own precept…)
bill
From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of quentin skrabec
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 2:29 AM
To: Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [JVF] how did Verne really feel about industrial progress versus social and environmental issues
Ok, Guys – I need some help, comments, ideas, etc., so I'm throwing things out for comment – it’s a bit rough ( I skipped good editing to get the ideas out) and might be a bit emotionally strange to some of you. Maybe it will lead to discussion????
--
Rafael Ontivero
I grew up in an industrial city known for manufacturing men's shoes. Despite the pollution, I have fond memories of my childhood there. However, the city faced issues such as unemployment and work accidents, including the loss of fingers. My father operated one of the most dangerous machines in shoe production, the 'centering machine' (*), also known as the 'finger eater.' Fortunately, he never had an accident. I remember visiting him at work and being in awe of the production chain, mostly manual, the smell of industrial glue and leather, the camaraderie among workers, and the noisy environment.
However, I believe that this is mostly driven by nostalgia and nothing else.
(*) The centering machine works by placing the sole of the shoe under a piece of wood called a 'last.' The rest of the shoe is placed on top and inserted into the machine, which has plates that bend half of the shoe over the foot, press it hard, and then heat it to glue everything together. Occasionally, the plates and the force required to shape the shoe would take some workers' fingers, mainly because they modified the machine by removing all safety features to work faster, as they were paid per shoe produced.
Enviado: martes, 30 de enero de 2024 19:28
Para: Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Asunto: [JVF] how did Verne really feel about industrial progress versus social and environmental issues
Christian Sánchez
(This is the closest my father and Verne would ever be.)
Christian
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/VI1PR03MB9986DA920A65554D6B500604F17C2%40VI1PR03MB9986.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com.
quentin
Great comments
Both my grandfather’s brothers were killed in the steel mills not unusual for Pittsburghers. Yet the family had a strange love of the steel industry as do i. its strange it to me it is more than nostalgia. It drew me to engineering living in Pittsburgh. For a steelworker family having an engineer or mill boss in the family was better than having a doctor, millionare, or priest. For me Verne captured in many of his stories this strange mix of fear, pride, pollution, and, community. The community seemed to trump issues with the company, pollution etc . im sure to outsiders that seems strange.
Thanks for all the comments and references as I go deeper into this
quent
Quentin R. Skrabec Jr., Ph.D.
St. Eloi Consulting
6609 Buck Creek
Maumee, Ohio 43537
Cell 419 349 0933
Verne: Past, Present, Future at paris2060.blogspot.com
From: Christian Sánchez
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 5:42 AM
To: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [JVF] how did Verne really feel about industrial progress versus social and environmental issues
Rafael,
My father lost a phalanx operating a machine that manufactures wire.
(This is the closest my father and Verne would ever be.)
Christian
El mié, 31 ene 2024 a la(s) 5:37 a.m., Rafael Ontivero (rafael....@gmail.com) escribió:
William,
I’m not qualified to talk about Verne, but I’m to talk about me.
I grew up in an industrial city known for manufacturing men's shoes. Despite the pollution, I have fond memories of my childhood there. However, the city faced issues such as unemployment and work accidents, including the loss of fingers. My father operated one of the most dangerous machines in shoe production, the 'centering machine' (*), also known as the 'finger eater.' Fortunately, he never had an accident. I remember visiting him at work and being in awe of the production chain, mostly manual, the smell of industrial glue and leather, the camaraderie among workers, and the noisy environment.
However, I believe that this is mostly driven by nostalgia and nothing else.
(*) The centering machine works by placing the sole of the shoe under a piece of wood called a 'last.' The rest of the shoe is placed on top and inserted into the machine, which has plates that bend half of the shoe over the foot, press it hard, and then heat it to glue everything together. Occasionally, the plates and the force required to shape the shoe would take some workers' fingers, mainly because they modified the machine by removing all safety features to work faster, as they were paid per shoe produced.
De: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> en nombre de quentin skrabec <qrsk...@gmail.com>
Enviado: martes, 30 de enero de 2024 19:28
Para: Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Asunto: [JVF] how did Verne really feel about industrial progress versus social and environmental issues
Ok, Guys – I need some help, comments, ideas, etc., so I'm throwing things out for comment – it’s a bit rough ( I skipped good editing to get the ideas out) and might be a bit emotionally strange to some of you. Maybe it will lead to discussion????
I am looking at Verne’s relationship with coal (carbon). Verne can be ambiguous about coal; on the one hand, he seems to hate its pollution and health concerns, while on the other hand, he sees it as the king of industry and science.
He often seems to see coal as inexhaustible and yet sees it as finite, requiring replacement in the future?
Verne can, at times, create Dickens-like cities, but he adds parks, etc
In Underground City, his characters lament the decline of coal mining, seeing a romance in coal mining,
Coming from heavily polluted industrial Pittsburgh of old and now a clean city but with the death of the steel industry – I understand the romantic memories. The great Bessemer coal-lit skies of the nights rivaled the aurora borealis of nature, and the days reminded me of all the pollution problems. But as a youth, the awe of industry overshadowed any downsides. The might of the steel industry and its industrialists were awe-inspiring for a youth. THIS may seem crazy BUT I have romantic memories of polluted Pittsburgh as the city of steel. I feel Verne had this romantic ambivalence for coal and industry too.
Thoughts????????? Do any of you harbor un-woke feelings and ambivalence of the awe of industry versus its health/pollution issues.?
Quent
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David McCallister
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quentin
Yes you are right stahlsalt was like 1960s Pittsburgh – I feel at home with the city – of course Pittsburgh was not a police state
Thanks for your comments
Quentin R. Skrabec Jr., Ph.D.
St. Eloi Consulting
6609 Buck Creek
Maumee, Ohio 43537
Cell 419 349 0933
Verne: Past, Present, Future at paris2060.blogspot.com
From: David McCallister
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 3:38 PM
To: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [JVF] how did Verne really feel about industrial progress versus social and environmental issues
It's been a long time since I read it, but I seem to remember that the issues of industrialized society vs hygienic society were present in "The Begum's Fortune".
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wbutch...@gmail.com
Rafael,
And I know little but Verne…
In the ms of the The Moon, where Verne dares to quote statistics—’France, where the accident rate is one for every 200,000 francs worth of work’—the publisher exclaims: ‘what [land] is this figure for? It’s a lot of accidents . . . ’ (140); but this is a rare social comment by implication from Verne.
From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Rafael Ontivero
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 4:38 PM
To: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jules-verne-forum/VI1PR03MB9986DA920A65554D6B500604F17C2%40VI1PR03MB9986.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com.
quentin skrabec
Verne envisioned a new and cleaner world fueled by battery electricity, hydrogen, oxygen, windmills, ocean waves and even air electrical “accumulators.” In his 1863 novel Paris in the 20th Century, Verne predicted hydrogen fuel for cars, windmill-sourced compressed air for trains, hydroelectric power generation, and replacing coal gas with electric lighting in 1960.[i] He predicted Paris of 1960 would also use windmills to compress air to drive mechanical devices in factories and homes and power trains and railways.[ii] Still he saw coal air pollution from heavy industry and chemical production would still be in transition until fully eliminated.. He also foresaw that there would be resistance to fuel changes. He noted opposition to electric lighting in his future Paris, “Nonetheless a few old-fashioned shops remained faithful to the old means of hydro carbonated gas,” which allowed for limited coal mining![iii]
[i] Jules Verne, Paris in the 20th Century, written in 1863 and published in 1996, Ballantine Books, pp. 24-25
[ii] Ibid pp 30-31, pp. 22-23
[iii] Ibid p. 24