the dangers of monoglot eccentric one-track theories accompanied by ad hominem remarks and non sequiturs

[William Butcher]

Grok cannot be trusted. Some of Lamb's arguments come from Grok. Therefore...

[John Lamb]

...mmm Lamb can not be trusted, nice bit of psychobabble underpinned on the sand on Flourens. 

[John Lamb]

US High School grade 9 and 10 (lower tier)

World Literature Examination Paper One (one hour) 

Candidate William Butcher

Question One (20 marks) 

Using relevant Verne texts and contemporary historical events outline the factual evidence for  Gustave Flourens being the inspiration for Captain Nemo. Higher marks will be awarded to referencing specific paragraphs in Verne's text of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (provided in your information pack). Your essay should be a minimum of 1500 words long. 

You should address your target language to the general reader, for example you should avoid the use of words of such as  'monoglot' 'hominem' and 'sequiters' which may be perceived as smokescreens covering the weakness  of your argument. 

Candidate John Lamb 

Question One (20 marks) 

Using relevant Verne texts and contemporary historical events outline the factual evidence for  Raphael Semmes being the inspiration for Captain Nemo. Higher marks will be awarded to referencing specific paragraphs in Verne's text of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (provided in your information pack). Your essay should be a minimum of 1500 words long. you may reference other material to support your argument to achieve the highest grade. 

Answer.

Both Semmes and Nemo are philosopher captains with their origins in Mobile, they both are captains of ironclad rams who have lost their vessels during a great storm, down a whirlpool and by an explosion. Both captains have ships related to the word Nautilus, which is either 85% or 95% built in Birkenhead by John Laird, in secret, to a secret design and finished on a remote island, both Semmes and Nemo speak several languages and have a multinational crew in a vessel approx 225 feet long and 25 feet wide, both vessels are known for their speed, agility and having a recess in their hull together with a water condenser, both Semmes and Nemo sink ships around the world and are denounced as pirates and feature in the New York Herald, both captains cause great consternation in Liverpool, have a vessel whose appearance  deceives enemy shipping and threaten to put up insurance costs, both captain’s voyage for 70,000 miles (twenty thousand leagues), both captains are chased by just one ship by a commander named Farragut of the United States Navy sailing out of Brooklyn, and Abraham Lincoln, both Semmes and Nemo have a portrait of a civil war President and soldier above their bed, and many ships chronometers on their bedroom wall and both captains have a bounty put on their head by Farragut, both captains are so infamous they are sung about in cafes, jeered at in newspapers and in theatres, both their vessels are compared to sea monsters and their captains  debate whether marine animals can pierce a ships hull, both their vessels are illuminated by an eerie light and both captains have a great love of marine life, both talk about sleeping whales and whether right whales can cross the equator, both captains destroy those who kill whales and have been credited by modern conservationists as having saved the whale from extinction, both captains talk at great length about the formation of coral, referring to it as ‘madrepores’  and debate whether coral is animal, mineral or vegetable, both talk about coral mausoleums, both captains describe the Gulf Stream, its source and effects, praise the oceanographer Mathew Fontaine Maury and regret his fall from grace after the American Civil War, both captains encounter an imaginary island, sail through both white water and water they describe as clear as air, both encounter the waters of the Amazon but prefer to steer clear of the waters of Brazil. Both captains describe serpents climbing through holes on deck, and encounter schools of argonauts or nautilus, both captains have their own pleasure boat and use it to collect curiosities and sea shells for their on board museum, both encounter fake Havanna cigars, kill a single albatross and use light traps to catch fish, both are known for their impeccable manners and hospitality despite taking numerous prisoners onboard, both seek sanctuary in the shelter of a volcanic island which is their de facto base where they take on coal, both captains are mentioned in two Jules Verne novels, smoke a daily cigar, have large amounts of gold onboard which is obtained from sunken ships, both captains have extremely strong views about British rule in India, and an island rebellion, both state they enjoy food a Malay would cook, both captains lament the demise of sail to be replaced by steam and write at length about the loss of the ship Florida, both describe sailing in the Indian Ocean as tedious to anyone but the natural historian and then encounter ships from the P and O Line. Both captains undergo a physical and mental decline that ultimately is responsible for their ship being lost to the world, both captains have their final battle in the English Channel with a wooden ship protected by armour above the waterline, both captains circle around the enemy ship and are compared to animals and prey, both captains lose their ship down a whirlpool on June 19^th or within one hour of this date, both captains write their onboard manuscript which then disappears into the sea, both captains grieve over their lost wife, family and country, both start weeping and dismiss their crew politely so they can grieve in private, both hold an elaborate funeral and release a book of their experiences in March 1869, both captains and their vessels are compared by Jules Verne in a letter to Hetzel.

[James D. Keeline]

Both Semmes and Nemo are philosopher captains with their origins in Mobile

Where is it written by Verne that Nemo is from Mobile?

James 

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[John Lamb]

Please quote me correctly, I carefully said that both Nemo and Semmes had  'Origins' in Mobile, which I think is fair enough whether you be a native of Mobile or having a motto of Mobilis in mobile.

I has to summarise 100 links in 732 words as some people state they do not have time to look at the detailed evidence in my attachment. My raw list posted a week or so ago says 

Whose origins can be traced back to Mobile as in ‘Mobilis in Mobile’.

whereas my explanatory notes posted a few days ago say 

Raphael Semmes Memoirs (1869)

 

I had been for many years, been a resident citizen of Alabama, having removed to this state in 1841, and settled with my family, on the west bank of the Perdido; removing thence in a few years to Mobile. (p75).

 

This can only be interpreted as a literary joke by Jules Verne purposely playing on the Latin. 

and 

✓ Nemo 20,000 Leagues (1869)

 

I could have fancied I was in the dining-room of the Adelphi Hotel at Liverpool…

 

…Every knife, fork, spoon, plate, and utensil was inscribed with a letter surrounded by a motto, of which the following is an exact facsimile:          MOBILIS IN MOBILE     

Mobile in the mobile element! The device fitted the submarine perfectly…

(p54).

As I have stated before to anyone, will you please read the full notes on 1-100 before asking questions that have already been answered.

In my summary of 732 words (written for those who can not be bothered looking at the full table of evidence) I had precisely five words to explain the mobile  link and so both Nemo and Semmes having their origins in Mobile (as in Mobile Alabama and Mobilis in Mobile) was valid for both strands.

Please revert to the detailed notes as this will save time for both of us. 

I have said to others on this forum to read all the evidence and if you had read the info given above I do not think you would have asked the question. 

I am quite happy to give way on any one of my 100 claims as I have done with one to Don, but only if of is a reasoned argument that has given me the courtesy of spending  about half an hour reding my detailed quote for quote 100 links between Semmes and Nemo. 

Best John 

[James D. Keeline]

I literally copied your text from your wall of text in the first portion.  I searched a collection of several texts of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas in English to look for Mobile and did not find it.

So it is not a literal but some kind of word play and this qualifies for your associations?

Perhaps I am too literal-minded.  But that would not be the first time someone has made that claim.  When it comes to history, I prefer to be literal.

_____

Nemo is only disclosed as being from India in Mysterious Island.  

Since the Nautilus appears in Mysterious Island, it didn't "sink" in the conventional use of that term.  Of course a submarine "sinks" all the time as part of its normal operation.

James

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[dsa...@me.com]

On Oct 31, 2025, at 11:08 PM, John Lamb <cads...@gmail.com> wrote:

Both Semmes and Nemo are philosopher captains

Verne wanted to discuss philosophy in his book, so Nemo likes to talk about philosophy.

with their origins in Mobile,

Nemo is Indian, and adopted the Latin motto Mobilus in Mobile, in light of his chosen life of navigating the world’s oceans.

they both are captains of ironclad rams

Ships meant to attack other ships often had rams.

who have lost their vessels during a great storm,

Nautilus is not lost in a storm.

down a whirlpool

Alabama is described as leaving a whirlpool behind when she sank (something sinking ships do) Nautilus disappeared in the Maelstrom of Lofoten, a known navigational hazard of the coast of Norway.

and by an explosion.

The Nautilus is deliberately scuttled after Nemo’s death. It is not lost in an explosion. The island blows up sometime later.

Both captains have ships related to the word Nautilus,

Semmes connection to “Nautilus House” in Birkenhead is tenuous at best, while “Nautilus” as a name for an armoured submarine is a fairly mundane connection.

which is either 85% or 95% built in Birkenhead by John Laird,

Laird provided hull plating for Nautilus. Other components came from all over Europe and New York. All these parts were shipped to a secret location, and assembled there.

Alabama was built by Laird.

in secret,

That the Alabama was being built for the Confederacy was well known at the time. The Americans even tried to intercept her after she left Liverpool, before she could be armed, but missed her

to a secret design and finished on a remote island,

The Alabama was provisioned and armed in the Azores

both Semmes and Nemo speak several languages

Nemo being a polyglot was fairly standard Verne characterization.

and have a multinational crew

Nemo’s crew was Indian.

in a vessel approx 225 feet long and 25 feet wide, both vessels are known for their speed, agility

If you are writing about a super fancy new type of ship, you aren’t going to make it a lumbering ungainly boat.

and having a recess in their hull

The Alabama could pull its propeller up out of the water to reduce drag when under sail.

The Nautilus had a dingy nestled in a recess of her hull.

together with a water condenser,

Becoming common equipment for ocean going vessels. Alabama used condensed steam from its steam engine, Nautilus boiled and condensed sea water using electricity.

both Semmes and Nemo sink ships around the world and are denounced as pirates and feature in the New York Herald,

The Herald compares Semmes with other notable pirates. It asks Professor Aronnax what he thinks is going on.

both captains cause great consternation in Liverpool,

People sinking their ships will tend to do that.

have a vessel whose appearance  deceives enemy shipping

Semmes would approach while flying a false flag (A common commerce raider tactic.) People didn’t know what the heck the Nautilus was, having never seen anything like it before.

and threaten to put up insurance costs,

Sinking ships will do that.

both captain’s voyage for 70,000 miles (twenty thousand leagues),

20,000 lieues is 50,000 miles. (English measure had no direct translation for “lieue” as Verne used it, but league was close enough.)

both captains are chased by just one ship by a commander named Farragut of the United States Navy

Admiral Farragut may have been responsible for sending a ship after Semmes, but he didn’t take part in the chase.

Verne likely picked Farragut for the name of the commander of the Abraham Lincoln because it was a familiar name of an American naval commander.

sailing out of Brooklyn,

Where many ships leaving New York sailed from.

and Abraham Lincoln, both Semmes and Nemo have a portrait of a civil war President and soldier above their bed,

Semmes had Jefferson Davis, and Robert E Lee. Nemo had Lincoln, and JOHN BROWN!

and many ships chronometers on their bedroom wall

Semmes had a collection of trophies from ships he had captured.

Nemo had his navigational tools.

and both captains have a bounty put on their head by Farragut,

The US Navy Department put a $300,000/$500,000 bounty for the sinking/capture of the Alabama.

Commander Farragut offered a $2,000 reward for the first person to sight the “whale” they were chasing.

both captains are so infamous they are sung about in cafes, jeered at in newspapers and in theatres,

Something that happens with infamous pirates.

both their vessels are compared to sea monsters

The Alabama metaphorically so, while people thought the Nautilus was a real sea monster.

and their captains  debate whether marine animals can pierce a ships hull,

Not much debating. Swordfish and narwals have been known to do that.

both their vessels are illuminated by an eerie light

The Alabama is described as being illuminated by a phosphorescent sea, while the Nautilus’s electric lights were something not seen before by the people witnessing them.

and both captains have a great love of marine life, both talk about sleeping whales and whether right whales can cross the equator,

Much of 20,000 Leagues is an excuse for Verne to talk about the great variety of sea life.

both captains destroy those who kill whales

Whalers are a lucrative target for a commerce raider.

Nemo slaughters a pod of sperm whales under the mistaken belief that they kill other whales.

and have been credited by modern conservationists as having saved the whale from extinction,

Semmes and other commerce raiders by putting a serious dent in the amount of whaling going on. Verne by inspiring an interest in the conservation of sea life.

both captains talk at great length about the formation of coral, referring to it as ‘madrepores’ 

Madrepora are a common variety of coral, and is often used as a generic name for all stony corrals.

and debate whether coral is animal, mineral or vegetable,

A common debate among naturalists of the time

both talk about coral mausoleums,

Semmes metaphorically when describing reef formation, Verne has Nemo literally burying his fallen crewmen in a coral cemetery.

both captains describe the Gulf Stream, its source and effects,

Something of great interest to anyone sailing in the North Atlantic Ocean.

praise the oceanographer Mathew Fontaine Maury

Still considered the father of modern oceanography.

and regret his fall from grace after the American Civil War,

Pity he was a slavery loving traitor.

both captains encounter an imaginary island,

Semmes describes a “Flyaway cape” a common atmospheric phenomenon often mistaken for land, giving rise to many reports of islands where there are none.

Verne mentions Crespo Island, one of many “phantom islands” that littered 19th century maps.

sail through both white water and water they describe as clear as air,

Sea water appearing milky white does happen, and sometimes it can have remarkable clarity, though “clear as air” is hyperbolic exaggeration.

both encounter the waters of the Amazon

Which you do when sailing up the coast of South America.

but prefer to steer clear of the waters of Brazil.

Semmes was not popular with the Brazilian authorities. Nemo just avoided populated areas on general principles.

Both captains describe serpents climbing through holes on deck,

Semmes has encounters with actual sea snakes crawling up onto his ship when at anchor.

The Nautilus is attacked by giant squid.

and encounter schools of argonauts or nautilus,

As one does when sailing about in certain bits of ocean.

both captains have their own pleasure boat

Common equipment on ships.

and use it to collect curiosities and sea shells for their on board museum,

As amateur naturalists are wont to do.

both encounter fake Havanna cigars,

Semmes is handed a fake wooden cigar as a joke.

Nemo makes cigars out of a nicotine containing seaweed.

kill a single albatross

As sailers or known to do. (Coleridge wrote a whole long poem about it.)

and use light traps to catch fish,

A common technique.

both are known for their impeccable manners and hospitality despite taking numerous prisoners onboard,

Semmes (not an unbiased source) self describes himself thus.

Nemo to fit the needs of the plot.

both seek sanctuary in the shelter of a volcanic island which is their de facto base where they take on coal,

Small islands in the middle of the ocean are mostly volcanic.

both captains are mentioned in two Jules Verne novels,

Wholly unremarkable.

smoke a daily cigar,

Neither have ready access to resupply, so they ration their vices

have large amounts of gold onboard which is obtained from sunken ships,

Semmes sunk the ships himself, after looting them.

Nemo mostly recovered gold from previous ship wrecks.

both captains have extremely strong views about British rule in India,

Semmes was all for it, while for Nemo it was the cause of his intense hatred for the British.

and an island rebellion, both state they enjoy food a Malay would cook,

Semmes had a Malaysian steward. Nemo describes a sea slug jam as something a Malaysian would describe as the best in the world.

both captains lament the demise of sail to be replaced by steam

The common nostalgia for the good old days.

and write at length about the loss of the ship Florida,

Semmes about his fellow commerce raider, the CSS Florida, captured and sunk by the Americans.

Verne about a fictitious British ship, apparently sunk in a storm in the Pacific Ocean.

 both describe sailing in the Indian Ocean as tedious to anyone but the natural historian

Not much was happening there, but lots of interesting sea life.

and then encounter ships from the P and O Line.

The main shipping line in that part of the world.

Both captains undergo a physical and mental decline that ultimately is responsible for their ship being lost to the world,

A natural hazard of their professions.

both captains have their final battle in the English Channel with a wooden ship protected by armour above the waterline,

If you were armouring a ship, that’s where you put it.

both captains circle around the enemy ship and are compared to animals and prey,

A common tactic and metaphor.

both captains lose their ship down a whirlpool

The Alabama is left as leaving a whirlpool behind after she sand (as ships often do, and the description may be an exaggeration.) The Nautilus sails into the Maelstrom at Lofoten, a known navigational hazard off the coast of Norway.

on June 19^th or within one hour of this date,

The Nautilus was lost on the 22nd.

both captains write their onboard manuscript which then disappears into the sea,

Captains do that, and its a risk.

both captains grieve over their lost wife, family and country,

Semmes “wife” was his ship, and his crew were his “family”

Nemo’s wife and family were killed by the British during the Sepoy Revolt.

both start weeping and dismiss their crew politely so they can grieve in private,

Part of the whole proper behaviour as a ship’s captain thing.

both hold an elaborate funeral

Got to give your dead crew mates a proper send-off.

and release a book of their experiences in March 1869,

Amazing how Verne managed to get an advanced copy of Semmes memoirs translated into French and delivered to him across an ocean in time for him to incorporate all those details into his own book

both captains and their vessels are compared by Jules Verne in a letter to Hetzel.

In that Verne says that any comparison to the Alabama is unacceptable and inexplicable.

If anything, based on what you wrote, if Verne was using Semmes as any sort of model, Nemo is meant to be the anti-Semmes.

[John Lamb]

Dear Don,

thankyou for your analysis and the time spent on it. These are not coincidences. I have long maintained that while the adventures of Captain Nemo use Semmes as a literary template, his morals are of the abolitionist and so, as you say  Nemo is Semmes's alter ego (the anti Semmes that you state) as proved by the polar opposite portraits of Lincoln and Brown in his cabin compared to Semmes's portraits of Davis and Lee. Indeed I will go further and say that Semmes is a metaphor for the United States at war with itself between 1861-65 - hence his tormented soul. ...remember Verne asks what clues the portraits give us as to his soul. 

Semmes disappeared to Paris in September 1864 with Francis Tremlett, the custodian of his memoirs, for two weeks in September 1864, leaving Tremlett to travel home while he stayed in Paris alone. (Fox 2007)  

My reply in detail,

...

Both Semmes and Nemo are philosopher captains

Verne wanted to discuss philosophy in his book, so Nemo likes to talk about philosophy.

  Semmes was a Professor of Moral Philosophy though and so exceptional as a sea captain that one of his many biographies is called 'The Philosophical Mariner' hence the Verne link. 

with their origins in Mobile, still a great play on the Latin by Verne if you accept the Semmes Nemo link. 

Nemo is Indian, and adopted the Latin motto Mobilus in Mobile, in light of his chosen life of navigating the world’s oceans. Semmes was from Mobile Alabama

they both are captains of ironclad rams

Ships meant to attack other ships often had rams. No they didn't not until the American Civil War in the 1860's ..revived them as part of ironclad warships, peak reached in 1866 the year 20,000 Leagues is set.  

Nautilus is not lost in a storm. Agreed, I have withdrawn this claim.

 

Alabama is described as leaving a whirlpool behind when she sank (something sinking ships do) Nautilus disappeared in the Maelstrom of Lofoten, a known navigational hazard of the coast of Norway.

 Yes, but this is still the likely inspiration for the Maelstrom, I shall change it to ‘disappear leaving a ‘freak whirlpool’ behind, so echoing officer Sinclair’s eyewitness account. Of the sinking of the CSS Alabama.

 

 

 

and by an explosion.

 

The Nautilus is deliberately scuttled after Nemo’s death. It is not lost in an explosion. The island blows up sometime later.

 

If it is scuttled then you can still find it, you can not find a submarine after a volcanic explosion destroys a whole island hence Nemo's Nautilus ironclad and Semmes’s Virginia II were both lost in an explosion.

Both captains have ships related to the word Nautilus,

 

Semmes connection to “Nautilus House” in Birkenhead is tenuous at best, while “Nautilus” as a name for an armoured submarine is a fairly mundane connection.

 

The Alabama was commissioned from Nautilus House, Liverpool (not Birkenhead), the European Headquarters of the Confederacy in Europe. The building is now known as Alabama House (with Semmes House to the rear) and so the connection is definitely not ‘tenuous at best’. It is an intriguing fact that may have been the reason Verne chose the word Nautilus, we can never be sure for certain.

 

 

which is either 85% or 95% built in Birkenhead by John Laird,

Laird provided hull plating for Nautilus. Other components came from all over Europe and New York. All these parts were shipped to a secret location, and assembled there.

 

Laird provided both the internal and external hull, this makes up over 80% of the weight of the final vessel. This is significant as both the CSS Alabama and the Nautilus are…mainly built at Lairds ….and completed on a desert island, a sequential clue by Verne.

 

Alabama was built by Laird.

in secret,

 

That the Alabama was being built for the Confederacy was well known at the time. The Americans even tried to intercept her after she left Liverpool, before she could be armed, but missed her.

 

I make this clear that the Alabama was a warship built in secret in my expanded text.

 

✓ Emerging Civil War Website

Commander James Bulloch, chief Confederate purchasing agent in Europe, secretly contracted to build Alabama at Liverpool. 

to a secret design and finished on a remote island,

 

The Alabama was provisioned and armed in the Azores

both Semmes and Nemo speak several languages

 

Nemo being a polyglot was fairly standard Verne characterization.

 

Agreed but Semmes is exceptional for a captain and possible  literary inspiration.

 

 

In Memoirs he presents quotations in Latin, French, and Spanish, all without translation, assuming that any intelligent reader would understand them. He sprinkles the narrative with brief snatches from the Bible, Shakespeare, Francis Bacon, Walter Scott, Horace Greeley, Tocqueville, the English poet James Montgomery, the Confederate Poet Father Abram Ryan – and his favourite poet, Lord Byron, with eleven quotations.

 

(Fox 2007)

 

 

 

 

 

and have a multinational crew

 

Nemo’s crew was Indian.

 

As I have said one crew member speaks French in distress, they use a universal language, Nemo is Indian and the unknown quoted phrase repeated is certainly not Indian in derivation. I will happily withdaw this though as agreed it can not be said with certainty. 

in a vessel approx 225 feet long and 25 feet wide, both vessels are known for their speed, agility

 

If you are writing about a super fancy new type of ship, you aren’t going to make it a lumbering ungainly boat.

 

Fair enough but it would be raised here if the dimensions were not comparable.

and having a recess in their hull

 

The Alabama could pull its propeller up out of the water to reduce drag when under sail.

The Nautilus had a dingy nestled in a recess of her hull.

together with a water condenser,

 

Becoming common equipment for ocean going vessels. Alabama used condensed steam from its steam engine, Nautilus boiled and condensed sea water using electricity.

 

The water condenser was still a rarity though in the 1860’s and a major new advantage to Semmes over other ships. He credited it for not losing a single crew member to disease and it increased his cruising independence. Recessed propeller is very rare.

both Semmes and Nemo sink ships around the world and are denounced as pirates and feature in the New York Herald,

 

The Herald compares Semmes with other notable pirates. It asks Professor Aronnax what he thinks is going on.

both captains cause great consternation in Liverpool,

 

People sinking their ships will tend to do that.

 

Liverpool was the home port (Birkenhead to be more precise) of the Alabama, The Scotia is a Liverpool based ship… hence the more specific  rather than generic link you suggest.

have a vessel whose appearance deceives enemy shipping

 

Semmes would approach while flying a false flag (A common commerce raider tactic.) People didn’t know what the heck the Nautilus was, having never seen anything like it before.

 

Yes so we agree?

 

and threaten to put up insurance costs,

 

Sinking ships will do that.

 

But that is the crux of the whole matter, these are books about one ship that sails the oceans sinking other ships… hence Semmes’s real life Memoirs and Vernes fiction will share common themes but the number of links and preciseness of the named links raise this above coincidence.

both captain’s voyage for 70,000 miles (twenty thousand leagues),

 

20,000 lieues is 50,000 miles. (English measure had no direct translation for “lieue” as Verne used it, but league was close enough.)

 

As mentioned in a previous discussion Semmes used British maritime Leagues, so if you accept the Semmes link (which I know you don’t) …this gives 70,000 Leagues.

both captains are chased by just one ship by a commander named Farragut of the United States Navy

 

Admiral Farragut may have been responsible for sending a ship after Semmes, but he didn’t take part in the chase.

 

Figuratively speaking Farragut did chase Semmes I will put a comma in and change to

 

both captains are chased by just one ship, by a commander named Farragut of the United States Navy

 

 

 

Verne likely picked Farragut for the name of the commander of the Abraham Lincoln because it was a familiar name of an American naval commander.

 

No, Verne picked it as wordplay. Semmes is chased around the seas by Admiral Farragut under the orders of Abraham Lincoln, Nemo is chased around the seas by Commander Farragut on the ship Abraham Lincoln.

sailing out of Brooklyn,

 

Where many ships leaving New York sailed from.

 

Both the CSS Vanderbilt and the fictional naval ship Abraham Lincoln leave Brooklyn naval yard to chase the CSS Alabama and Nautilus respectively. Verne could have made the chasing ship leave any shipyard in the world – that is the link.

and Abraham Lincoln, both Semmes and Nemo have a portrait of a civil war President and soldier above their bed,

 

Semmes had Jefferson Davis, and Robert E Lee. Nemo had Lincoln, and JOHN BROWN!

 

Exactly, as I have always maintained Nemo is the alter ego of Semmes and this answers Verne’s question as to what clues the portraits give to the soul of Captain Nemo. I have answered that question. Do you have a better answer?

and many ships chronometers on their bedroom wall

 

Semmes had a collection of trophies from ships he had captured.

Nemo had his navigational tools.

 

Yes…another inspiration.

and both captains have a bounty put on their head by Farragut,

 

The US Navy Department put a $300,000/$500,000 bounty for the sinking/capture of the Alabama.

 

Commander Farragut offered a $2,000 reward for the first person to sight the “whale” they were chasing.

 

both captains are so infamous they are sung about in cafes, jeered at in newspapers and in theatres,

 

Something that happens with infamous pirates.

 

Agreed, but Semmes was the most infamous pirate of the 19^th century. Do you have the names of several other infamous 19^th century pirates you can give as matching all the songs, newspaper headlines, cartoons and theatre productions produced about Semmes….I don’t think so.

both their vessels are compared to sea monsters

 

The Alabama metaphorically so, while people thought the Nautilus was a real sea monster.

 

Agreed

and their captains  debate whether marine animals can pierce a ships hull,

 

Not much debating. Swordfish and narwals have been known to do that.

 

Yes but it is common to both books and is a rare thing to express.

 

both their vessels are illuminated by an eerie light

 

The Alabama is described as being illuminated by a phosphorescent sea, while the Nautilus’s electric lights were something not seen before by the people witnessing them.

and both captains have a great love of marine life, both talk about sleeping whales and whether right whales can cross the equator,

 

 

Much of 20,000 Leagues is an excuse for Verne to talk about the great variety of sea life.

 

Yes but the two whale links are incredibly obscure so heightening my whole argument.

 

both captains destroy those who kill whales

 

Whalers are a lucrative target for a commerce raider.

 

Nemo slaughters a pod of sperm whales under the mistaken belief that they kill other whales.

 

 

Yes Semmes kills whalers who kill whales while Nemo kills whales that kill whales, a great line when you think about it.

 

 

 

and have been credited by modern conservationists as having saved the whale from extinction,

 

Semmes and other commerce raiders by putting a serious dent in the amount of whaling going on. Verne by inspiring an interest in the conservation of sea life.

both captains talk at great length about the formation of coral, referring to it as ‘madrepores’ 

 

Madrepora are a common variety of coral, and is often used as a generic name for all stony corrals.

and debate whether coral is animal, mineral or vegetable,

 

A common debate among naturalists of the time

both talk about coral mausoleums,

 

Semmes metaphorically when describing reef formation, Verne has Nemo literally burying his fallen crewmen in a coral cemetery.

 

Does this not seem more than a coincidence to you?

The coral linkages all fit together, you have to view the whole when looking at the detailed quotes.

 

 

both captains describe the Gulf Stream, its source and effects,

 

Something of great interest to anyone sailing in the North Atlantic Ocean.

 

praise the oceanographer Mathew Fontaine Maury

 

Still considered the father of modern oceanography.

and regret his fall from grace after the American Civil War,

 

Pity he was a slavery loving traitor.

 

 

Yes but the Maury double link is far more important – this is not coincidence and I find it amazing that given all this, you do not too. Remember I have two other Verne novel to fall back on (particularly Mysterious Island) but you will still trot out coincidence as I am sure you do in my peer assessed article re Mysterious Island in the International Journal of Science Fiction.

 

 

 

 

 

both captains encounter an imaginary island,

 

Semmes describes a “Flyaway cape” a common atmospheric phenomenon often mistaken for land, giving rise to many reports of islands where there are none.

Verne mentions Crespo Island, one of many “phantom islands” that littered 19th century maps.

sail through both white water and water they describe as clear as air,

 

Sea water appearing milky white does happen, and sometimes it can have remarkable clarity, though “clear as air” is hyperbolic exaggeration.

 

Yes it does happen but a lot of common things seem to happen to Semmes and Nemo and this is one of them

both encounter the waters of the Amazon

 

Which you do when sailing up the coast of South America.

but prefer to steer clear of the waters of Brazil.

 

Semmes was not popular with the Brazilian authorities. Nemo just avoided populated areas on general principles.

 

No Verne specifically names Brazil as being avoided more than any other place for Nemo. What other specific named places can you say that Nemo avoided?

 

 

Captain Nemo obviously disliked the neighbourhood of those populated coasts of Brazil for he moved with dizzying speed. Not even the quickest of fish or birds could keep up with us and observing the natural curiosities of these seas was no longer possible.

 

 

Whereas Semmes produced the original line.

 

 

Hence it behooves the prudent mariner, to give the banks that fringe the coasts of Brazil, a pretty wide berth. 

 

 

 

 

Semmes was livid about the attack on the CSS Florida in Brazil too.

 

 

Both captains describe serpents climbing through holes on deck,

 

Semmes has encounters with actual sea snakes crawling up onto his ship when at anchor.

 

The Nautilus is attacked by giant squid.

and encounter schools of argonauts or nautilus,

 

As one does when sailing about in certain bits of ocean.

 

 

Agreed but given the 99 other connotations, the Alabama encountering Nautilus may have inspired this scene.

both captains have their own pleasure boat

 

Common equipment on ships.

and use it to collect curiosities and sea shells for their on board museum,

 

As amateur naturalists are wont to do.

both encounter fake Havanna cigars,

 

Semmes is handed a fake wooden cigar as a joke.

Nemo makes cigars out of a nicotine containing seaweed.

 

It is the sequence of these three points which make it stand out as both Semmes and Nemo collect specimens for their respective museums of curiosities.

 

I will set you a challenge now, name one other 19^th century sea captain (fictional or real) who used his dingy to collect sea shell on expeditions for their own mini museum. You will struggle because there are only two…Semmes and Nemo…not withstanding the fake Havana cigar.

 

 

kill a single albatross

 

As sailers or known to do. (Coleridge wrote a whole long poem about it.)

and use light traps to catch fish,

 

A common technique.

 

Agreed.

both are known for their impeccable manners and hospitality despite taking numerous prisoners onboard,

 

Semmes (not an unbiased source) self describes himself thus.

Nemo to fit the needs of the plot.

 

A plot inspired by Semmes…others complimented Semmes.

both seek sanctuary in the shelter of a volcanic island which is their de facto base where they take on coal,

 

Small islands in the middle of the ocean are mostly volcanic.

Yes there are hundreds of volcanic islands and you cannot obtain coal from any of them – it is geologically impossibility. Only two

  sea captains  obtain coal from volcanic islands – Nemo because it is fiction and Semmes because it was the rendezvous ship with his coaling boat.

 

This is a major clue. You can not mine for coal on a volcanic island

 

The combination of volcanic island hideaway and obtaining coal from it is another sequential clue far more important than their separate parts.

 

 

both captains are mentioned in two Jules Verne novels,

 

Wholly unremarkable.

 

I strongly disagree, if you say a real person (Semmes) inspired Jules Verne then the fact that Verne mentions ‘the famous captain Semmes’ (his words) in two novels is highly relevant. In total Verne mentions Lairds / Birkenhead / Semmes / the Alabama in eleven of his novels so Semmes is always on the radar.

smoke a daily cigar,

 

Neither have ready access to resupply, so they ration their vices

have large amounts of gold onboard which is obtained from sunken ships,

 

Semmes sunk the ships himself, after looting them.

Nemo mostly recovered gold from previous ship wrecks.

both captains have extremely strong views about British rule in India,

 

Semmes was all for it, while for Nemo it was the cause of his intense hatred for the British.

 

Again the anti-Semmes that you mention and the alter ego Semmes I subscribe to.

Semmes thought India should never be free of British Rule, so Verne made him Prince Dakkar, an Indian who fought to be free of British rule.

 

 

and an island rebellion, both state they enjoy food a Malay would cook,

 

Semmes had a Malaysian steward. Nemo describes a sea slug jam as something a Malaysian would describe as the best in the world.

both captains lament the demise of sail to be replaced by steam

 

The common nostalgia for the good old days.

and write at length about the loss of the ship Florida,

 

Semmes about his fellow commerce raider, the CSS Florida, captured and sunk by the Americans.

 

Verne about a fictitious British ship, apparently sunk in a storm in the Pacific Ocean.

 

A Confederate link made first by William Butcher, not me.

 

 

 both describe sailing in the Indian Ocean as tedious to anyone but the natural historian

Another double link paired with P and O to make a treble link.

 

Not much was happening there, but lots of interesting sea life.

and then encounter ships from the P and O Line.

 

The main shipping line in that part of the world.

 

Both captains undergo a physical and mental decline that ultimately is responsible for their ship being lost to the world,

 

A natural hazard of their professions.

both captains have their final battle in the English Channel with a wooden ship protected by armour above the waterline,

 

If you were armouring a ship, that’s where you put it.

 

You need to research the Kearsarge and the historical cusp of armouring ships above the waterline with in this case anchor chains under wooden boards.

both captains circle around the enemy ship and are compared to animals and prey,

 

A common tactic and metaphor.

both captains lose their ship down a whirlpool

 

The Alabama is left as leaving a whirlpool behind after she sand (as ships often do, and the description may be an exaggeration.) The Nautilus sails into the Maelstrom at Lofoten, a known navigational hazard off the coast of Norway.

on June 19^th or within one hour of this date,

 

The Nautilus was lost on the 22nd.

 

How do you work this out?

both captains write their onboard manuscript which then disappears into the sea,

 

Captains do that, and its a risk.

 

Yes but both captains do it and it falls into the sea.

both captains grieve over their lost wife, family and country,

 

Semmes “wife” was his ship, and his crew were his “family”

Nemo’s wife and family were killed by the British during the Sepoy Revolt.

 

Semmes uses the metaphor and Verne translates it back literally for 20,000 Leagues …so giving us the back story…brilliant.

both start weeping and dismiss their crew politely so they can grieve in private,

 

Part of the whole proper behaviour as a ship’s captain thing.

Yes but both do it

 

 

 

both hold an elaborate funeral

 

Got to give your dead crew mates a proper send-off.

 

and release a book of their experiences in March 1869,

 

Amazing how Verne managed to get an advanced copy of Semmes memoirs translated into French and delivered to him across an ocean in time for him to incorporate all those details into his own book

As stated, Semmes disappeared in Paris for two weeks in Sept 1864 with Francis Tremlett the supposed guardian of his memoirs (Fox 2007). Semmes was then left alone in Paris for at least a week. Semme could speak fluent French…so not so amazing. The ‘bare bones’ French edition of Semmes’s memoirs came out in 1864 but only contains about half the 100 links…enough for Verne to start on though .I have no doubt they colluded but with a necessary Unionist counterbalance involvement.

 

 

 

 

both captains and their vessels are compared by Jules Verne in a letter to Hetzel.

 

In that Verne says that any comparison to the Alabama is unacceptable and inexplicable.

 

 

…what about the ‘False Alabama’ he refers to though and the fact that Nemo according to Verne could have foregone his maritime existence and joined Grant’s army when in reality Semmes did forego his maritime existence and join Lee’s army.

 

If anything, based on what you wrote, if Verne was using Semmes as any sort of model, Nemo is meant to be the anti-Semmes.

 

Agreed

Thank You

 once again for taking the time replying

Best John

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