What is this group doing?

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Karl Groves

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Oct 30, 2011, 8:26:34 AM10/30/11
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I am somewhat new to jQuery in general and very new to anything involving the jQuery community.  I am not, however, new to web development or web standards.  When I heard about the creation of this group, I was quick to join, as I see the jQuery community as well positioned to influence W3C standards.  The fact that jQuery is the most used JavaScript framework means that its developers and users should have a strong voice. I know that the jQuery community is paying attention to standards and this is obvious in jQuery itself.  I realize this group is new but to date I've seen no actual discussion of an approach to getting anything accomplished.

Right now, IMO, the present process for the development of HTML5 is broken. The process is often highly contentious and some persons involved in the Working Group assert that the editor of that spec often makes decisions in absentia with little regard for the opinions of others.  One current source of drama is the removal of the <time> element  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13240  I currently don't have a dog in that fight, just using it as an example.

In my opinion, this jQuery standards group - instead of trying to propose new elements & attributes - could begin by lending its voice in support of (or opposition to) existing in-progress issues such as those found at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/1



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Karl Groves

Alex Wilson

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Oct 30, 2011, 9:59:39 AM10/30/11
to jQuery Standards
+1

Robin Berjon

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Oct 31, 2011, 4:56:39 AM10/31/11
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On 30 October 2011 13:26, Karl Groves <karlg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am somewhat new to jQuery in general and very new to anything involving
> the jQuery community.  I am not, however, new to web development or web
> standards.  When I heard about the creation of this group, I was quick to
> join, as I see the jQuery community as well positioned to influence W3C
> standards.  The fact that jQuery is the most used JavaScript framework means
> that its developers and users should have a strong voice. I know that the
> jQuery community is paying attention to standards and this is obvious in
> jQuery itself.  I realize this group is new but to date I've seen no actual
> discussion of an approach to getting anything accomplished.

Speaking personally, I am delighted to see this initiative happen, and
I very much hope that it will be successful. As someone who has been
heavily involved in standards over the past decade, I am more than
happy to help make it a reality.

I don't think that this here group has to come up with any
particularly strong political position on specific topics. Adopting a
political position would require finding consensus on this list,
having someone represent it there, and then circle back in case
feedback on the WG's list brings up aspects that could cause the
consensus position here to change. It seems like a recipe for
frustration.

Instead, I think that this list could become a voice for developers
stating for a given problem that "this is what we want to do, and this
is one way we think it could be done". For people writing standards,
understanding use cases and usage patterns is key. Sorting out the
dirty details can (and should) happen over there. In W3C groups, there
are often people advocating the voice of developers, usually in good
faith. But those voices can be wrong, and do not have the clout and
reach that jQuery has. That is definitely an area where I hope that
this gang will help.

Speaking more specifically as chair of the Device APIs WG, if you have
input of any kind, be it feedback on existing stuff or proposals for
new things that can be done with native code but not yet on the Web,
send it! You're the people we're working for, so if you want things
done your way, speak up!

--
Robin Berjon

Yehuda Katz

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Oct 31, 2011, 12:13:53 PM10/31/11
to jquery-s...@googlegroups.com
One of my original purposes for this group was to provide a safe place for "web authors" (in the parlance of the W3C) to discuss ideas that may well be boneheaded. Today, the only places those discussions happen are ad-hoc (at conferences, in blog comments, etc.) or on the official lists. The official lists are not a place for web developers to vet and discuss ideas, because they are far too brutal on un-vetted ideas.

If we're getting threads on this list that, after a full discussion, don't pan out, that's fine!

Also, the venue for specific, actionable "bugs" in the platform is https://github.com/jquery/standards/issues?sort=created&direction=desc&state=open, which actually is bursting with great suggestions for immediate improvements.

-- Yehuda


--
Yehuda Katz
(ph) 718.877.1325

T.J. Crowder

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Nov 1, 2011, 3:25:18 AM11/1/11
to jQuery Standards
On Oct 31, 4:13 pm, Yehuda Katz <wyc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of my original purposes for this group was to provide a safe place for
> "web authors" (in the parlance of the W3C) to discuss ideas that may well
> be boneheaded. Today, the only places those discussions happen are ad-hoc
> (at conferences, in blog comments, etc.) or on the official lists. The
> official lists are not a place for web developers to vet and discuss ideas,
> because they are far too brutal on un-vetted ideas.

That's a very good idea. Thank you!
--
T.J. Crowder
Independent Software Engineer
tj / crowder software / com
www / crowder software / com

J. Albert Bowden

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Nov 1, 2011, 2:48:39 PM11/1/11
to jQuery Standards
+1

On Oct 30, 8:26 am, Karl Groves <karlgro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am somewhat new to jQuery in general and very new to anything involving
> the jQuery community.  I am not, however, new to web development or web
> standards.  When I heard about the creation of this group, I was quick to
> join, as I see the jQuery community as well positioned to influence W3C
> standards.  The fact that jQuery is the most used JavaScript framework
> means that its developers and users should have a strong voice. I know that
> the jQuery community is paying attention to standards and this is obvious
> in jQuery itself.  I realize this group is new but to date I've seen no
> actual discussion of an approach to getting anything accomplished.
>
> Right now, IMO, the present process for the development of HTML5 is broken.
> The process is often highly contentious and some persons involved in the
> Working Group assert that the editor of that spec often makes decisions in
> absentia with little regard for the opinions of others.  One current source
> of drama is the removal of the <time> elementhttp://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13240 I currently don't have
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