Development Meeting

[Louis Landry]

Hi all,

Since there was a poor showing this morning at the PLT meeting and we have some things we need to discuss, the Dev Coords are going to have a meeting in the leadership channel on freenode tonight at http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=4&day=14&hour=02&min=0&sec=0 and you are all welcome to join us obviously.  I know the time is rough for the EU guys, but its the best we could do on short notice :-)

- Louis

--
Development Coordinator
Joomla! ... because open source matters.
http://www.joomla.org

[Mark Dexter]

I'll be there! Mark

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[JM Simonet]

Totally impossibe for us to be present.

Midnight can be OK but not 4AM.

JM

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Jean-Marie Simonet  /  infograf768

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[Christophe Demko]

Sorry to not have been there. When the message was sent, my computer was off until this morning... But as JM have said, 4AM is difficult for european...

2010/4/13 JM Simonet <infog...@gmail.com>

Totally impossibe for us to be present.

Midnight can be OK but not 4AM.

JM

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[Ian MacLennan]

No problem.  It was a development coordinator (Sam, Louis, Mark and I) meeting, not a general PWG meeting, but we just wanted to let you all know in case you wanted to attend.

Scheduling meetings sucks across the timezones that are represented in this group.

Ian

[Andrew Eddie]

Anyone available for the PLT meeting at the usual time (in around 8 hours)?

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://www.theartofjoomla.com - the art of becoming a Joomla developer

[Christophe Demko]

Le 11/05/2010 13:43, Andrew Eddie a écrit :
> Anyone available for the PLT meeting at the usual time (in around 8 hours)?
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Eddie
> http://www.theartofjoomla.com - the art of becoming a Joomla developer
>
>

Yep, should be there

[Chris Davenport]

I should be able to make it.

Chris.

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Chris Davenport
Joomla Leadership Team - Production Working Group
Joomla Documentation Coordinator

[JM Simonet]

Will be there.
JM

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Jean-Marie Simonet / infograf768

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Joomla! Translation Coordination Team

[Mark Dexter]

Does anyone have a transcript of this meeting or a summary? Thanks. Mark

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 7:04 AM, JM Simonet <infog...@gmail.com> wrote:

Will be there.
JM

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Jean-Marie Simonet  /  infograf768

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[Mark Dexter]

Thanks, Ian. Mark

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Ian MacLennan <ian.ma...@joomla.org> wrote:

2010-05-11T16:55:59  <infograf768> don't know... have to be reminded each time about that doc link... :p
2010-05-11T17:02:39  <AndrewEddie> ok, everyone here that is coming?
2010-05-11T17:04:18  <AndrewEddie> https://docs.google.com/a/joomla.org/Doc?docid=0ARxqaWVp2fOzZGdobmRkNjZfMjJkaHo2ZmJmcg&hl=en
2010-05-11T17:04:19  <jools> Title: Joomla! (at docs.google.com)
2010-05-11T17:07:43  <louislandry> I'm here
2010-05-11T17:07:44  <louislandry> sorry
2010-05-11T17:07:54  <infograf768> Christophe was supposed to come. No idea for Ian and Mark
2010-05-11T17:08:00  <infograf768> or Ron
2010-05-11T17:08:09  <louislandry> Mark is probably in the air
2010-05-11T17:08:21  <infograf768> Looks like Chris is here. Chris?
2010-05-11T17:08:24  <louislandry> over the atlantic :)
2010-05-11T17:08:29  <infograf768> ah
2010-05-11T17:08:57  <louislandry> chrisdavenport: you with us?
2010-05-11T17:09:13  <AndrewEddie> ian_mac: are you with us?
2010-05-11T17:11:47  <infograf768> hmm, we need some bugsquad leaders
2010-05-11T17:11:59  <infograf768> to discuss 1.5.18
2010-05-11T17:12:09  <AndrewEddie> we'll have to wing it
2010-05-11T17:12:15  <louislandry> doesn't sound like that's going to happen :)
2010-05-11T17:12:20  <infograf768> wing?
2010-05-11T17:12:32  <AndrewEddie> we will have to make do with who is here
2010-05-11T17:12:41  <infograf768> ah
2010-05-11T17:13:22  <AndrewEddie> so, business from the last meeting - we dont' have minutes done (cough) but my recollection is the only thing outstanding is a blog or two
2010-05-11T17:13:40  <louislandry> :-)
2010-05-11T17:13:40  <AndrewEddie> that louis has on his plate prior, then he got sick :)
2010-05-11T17:13:54  <louislandry> There is a blog about the milestone
2010-05-11T17:13:56  <AndrewEddie> next time give us 7 days notice please
2010-05-11T17:14:02  <louislandry> then there is a blog about the JBS stuff I think
2010-05-11T17:14:03  <infograf768> a blog had to be done by Louis to launch the JBS campaign on 1.6 and explain com_comments not committed
2010-05-11T17:14:59  <louislandry> well given the situation its almost better that didn't happen
2010-05-11T17:15:06  <louislandry> as we don't seem to have JBS coordinators around atm
2010-05-11T17:15:17  <louislandry> and the last thing we need is a call to arms with no leader
2010-05-11T17:15:20  <AndrewEddie> I've added a comment to the Ask the Team where that question came up, to expand on the "comments" issue as a stop gap http://community.joomla.org/blogs/community/1173-ask-the-team-chatlog-5th-may-2010.html#comment-15390
2010-05-11T17:15:22  <jools> Title: Ask The Team - Chatlog 5th May 2010 (at community.joomla.org)
2010-05-11T17:15:23  <louislandry> just makes us look bad
2010-05-11T17:15:36  <AndrewEddie> yeah
2010-05-11T17:16:02  <louislandry> Our bus factor is still too low
2010-05-11T17:16:10  <infograf768> bus factor?
2010-05-11T17:16:15  <infograf768> sorry...
2010-05-11T17:16:22  <AndrewEddie> you can say that again
2010-05-11T17:16:36  <louislandry> bus factor == the number of people that have to be hit by a bus before everythign stops
2010-05-11T17:16:49  <louislandry> the higher the bus factor the better
2010-05-11T17:17:07  <infograf768> hmm, a joke. Ok
2010-05-11T17:17:17  <louislandry> only a half joke
2010-05-11T17:18:02  <infograf768> My question will be direct: is ian available for this function or is there any issue there?
2010-05-11T17:18:08  <AndrewEddie> it's a funny way of looking at a serious problem
2010-05-11T17:18:20  <louislandry> it should be ok if i get sick.... we should have enough people around to get the things done that i am supposed to be doing
2010-05-11T17:18:24  <louislandry> same is true for all of us
2010-05-11T17:18:29  <louislandry> and if two of us go down for some reason
2010-05-11T17:18:37  <infograf768> yes
2010-05-11T17:18:40  <louislandry> ill, family emergency, life
2010-05-11T17:18:47  <louislandry> that should be ok as well
2010-05-11T17:18:51  <louislandry> that's something to work on
2010-05-11T17:18:52  <louislandry> as for ian
2010-05-11T17:18:56  <louislandry> he has limited time at the moment
2010-05-11T17:19:12  <louislandry> i won't speak for him, but he can't be the one-man-show that he once was
2010-05-11T17:19:25  <infograf768> OK, so we have to deal without him for JBS I guess atm
2010-05-11T17:19:48  <louislandry> we need some developer herders
2010-05-11T17:19:57  <AndrewEddie> well, I was almost "wiped out" because Caitlyn decided to have a fight with a surf board at school camp - fortunately she's ok - but it goes to show how vulnerable we are
2010-05-11T17:19:59  <infograf768> and we need a senior dev to handle this, yes
2010-05-11T17:20:17  <louislandry> well, in my view there are two jobs
2010-05-11T17:20:28  <louislandry> there is the dev herders
2010-05-11T17:20:32  <louislandry> they don't have to be senior devs
2010-05-11T17:20:40  <louislandry> but there have to also be senior devs around for consultation
2010-05-11T17:20:46  <louislandry> its hard to do both things
2010-05-11T17:21:01  <louislandry> we lack the former
2010-05-11T17:21:04  <louislandry> and we are light on the latter
2010-05-11T17:21:14  <AndrewEddie> been trying to do a bit of both
2010-05-11T17:21:27  <louislandry> you've been doing very admirable
2010-05-11T17:21:27  <AndrewEddie> JBS chat has been silent when I'm on the air though, unfortunately
2010-05-11T17:21:50  <infograf768> WE need someone that can take decisions in JBS and launch the campaign on 1.6
2010-05-11T17:21:52  <louislandry> IMO we need JBS team leaders on the three major continents
2010-05-11T17:21:55  <louislandry> a pair for each
2010-05-11T17:22:39  <louislandry> but JM is right there
2010-05-11T17:22:44  <louislandry> we need that as well
2010-05-11T17:22:50  <AndrewEddie> Mark has some ideas that I believe he wants to get cracking on when he gets back
2010-05-11T17:23:08  <AndrewEddie> I think we've just got to ride it as best we can until then
2010-05-11T17:23:37  <AndrewEddie> yes JM, very much so
2010-05-11T17:23:47  <louislandry> I do think Mark needs to be present for the conversation on what exactly to do
2010-05-11T17:23:52  <infograf768> Christophe and I have been trying to follow up on bugs and solve as many as we found we could.
2010-05-11T17:23:53  <louislandry> but all very good points
2010-05-11T17:24:17  <infograf768> there are issues that need senior devs
2010-05-11T17:25:38  <louislandry> of course there are
2010-05-11T17:25:47  <AndrewEddie> and it's only going to get worse :)
2010-05-11T17:26:30  <AndrewEddie> so basically, regarding comms, we park that until everyone has caught up and are back on deck?
2010-05-11T17:26:58  <louislandry> I don't know what you mean exactly by that
2010-05-11T17:27:02  <infograf768> I worry about letting this 1.5.17 issue long without doing anything
2010-05-11T17:27:26  <AndrewEddie> well, the blog that was supposed to go out for milestone 1
2010-05-11T17:27:37  <louislandry> well there isn't anything we can do about that right now JM
2010-05-11T17:27:38  <AndrewEddie> we delay that until we can coordinate with Ian/Mark
2010-05-11T17:28:03  <AndrewEddie> just wait JM, want to do one thing at a time
2010-05-11T17:28:14  <infograf768> k
2010-05-11T17:28:43  <AndrewEddie> the milestone blog that was planned, is it best to wait until everyone is on deck
2010-05-11T17:28:50  <louislandry> I think so
2010-05-11T17:29:08  <AndrewEddie> ok, done
2010-05-11T17:29:09  <infograf768> if Ian is not available, it means Mark's return
2010-05-11T17:29:21  <infograf768> we can't wait more
2010-05-11T17:29:40  <AndrewEddie> I put on the agenda to discuss the 1.5.17 issue, specifically the plugin patch
2010-05-11T17:29:48  <infograf768> same for 1.5.18 (I know, I know)
2010-05-11T17:30:22  <infograf768> definition of "everyone"please
2010-05-11T17:30:29  <AndrewEddie> would have liked Ian here on that one
2010-05-11T17:30:47  <AndrewEddie> but anyway, it would appear that it's throwing a multitude of false positives
2010-05-11T17:31:07  <AndrewEddie> mainly due to people applying upgrade patches and not following good upgrade procedure
2010-05-11T17:31:29  <AndrewEddie> ... since that is most of the world, that makes the scale of plugins indiscriminately turning off rather large
2010-05-11T17:32:08  <AndrewEddie> the problem is that if someone hits the site as a plugin file is being overwritten, the plugin patch does an *excellent* job of trapping the error
2010-05-11T17:32:19  <infograf768> and also this
2010-05-11T17:32:30  <infograf768> http://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?p=2139111#p2139111
2010-05-11T17:32:31  <jools> Title: Joomla! View topic - Please help ! system-legacy turned off two times, not me. (at forum.joomla.org)
2010-05-11T17:33:13  <AndrewEddie> there's a host of other lesser reasons why it's doing it, but since everyone upgrades their core files, that's the biggest problem imo
2010-05-11T17:33:16  <infograf768> apprently network errors may trigger the thing
2010-05-11T17:33:49  <infograf768> anyway, we have 2 solutions: revert or make it a param
2010-05-11T17:34:14  <louislandry> hrm
2010-05-11T17:34:36  <louislandry> how would a network error cause joomla to throw an E_ERROR, E_PARSE or E_COMPILE_ERROR
2010-05-11T17:34:37  <louislandry> ?
2010-05-11T17:34:46  <louislandry> it only catches those
2010-05-11T17:35:11  <louislandry> the during upgrade is really interesting actually andrew
2010-05-11T17:35:32  <louislandry> i hadn't considered that
2010-05-11T17:35:41  <AndrewEddie> no, neither had I
2010-05-11T17:35:42  <louislandry> we should be temporarily turning the site to offline during an upgrade anyway
2010-05-11T17:36:16  <louislandry> should be a function of the extension manager
2010-05-11T17:36:18  <AndrewEddie> there's lot of things we could do, but in my opinion, the least work is to revert the change
2010-05-11T17:36:23  <louislandry> ya
2010-05-11T17:36:25  <louislandry> i know
2010-05-11T17:36:31  <louislandry> its a shame though
2010-05-11T17:36:37  <louislandry> its a really good idea
2010-05-11T17:36:43  <AndrewEddie> it is
2010-05-11T17:36:57  <louislandry> somewhat befuddling that it caused that much pain
2010-05-11T17:37:01  <louislandry> other than the upgrade situation
2010-05-11T17:37:05  <AndrewEddie> well
2010-05-11T17:37:06  <AndrewEddie> heh
2010-05-11T17:37:08  <louislandry> i don't see any legitimate reasons it would error out
2010-05-11T17:37:28  <louislandry> if someone's plugin throws any of those error types they are taking down the site
2010-05-11T17:37:35  <AndrewEddie> the interesting thing is that was only found after certain high profilers started complaining about "what if's"
2010-05-11T17:37:43  <AndrewEddie> anyway
2010-05-11T17:37:46  <AndrewEddie> I'll be good now
2010-05-11T17:37:49  <louislandry> sure
2010-05-11T17:38:27  <louislandry> sounds like for the most part its a big case of "me too" syndrome
2010-05-11T17:38:33  <louislandry> but its easy enough to revert it
2010-05-11T17:38:43  <AndrewEddie> well the Nooku problem was that they found they weren't catching an error properly - hrm, so that problem wasn't the patch
2010-05-11T17:38:54  <louislandry> lol
2010-05-11T17:38:55  <AndrewEddie> yeah
2010-05-11T17:38:59  <louislandry> so we just helped them debug
2010-05-11T17:39:02  <louislandry> they should be thanking us
2010-05-11T17:39:11  <AndrewEddie> I was good and didn't point that out
2010-05-11T17:39:23  <infograf768> maybe we should...
2010-05-11T17:39:26  <louislandry> you SHOULD point that out
2010-05-11T17:39:30  <infograf768> yes
2010-05-11T17:39:36  <louislandry> we can't just take lashes for no reason
2010-05-11T17:39:38  <louislandry> i mean we can
2010-05-11T17:39:39  <louislandry> but it doesn't help
2010-05-11T17:39:44  <infograf768> Agree
2010-05-11T17:39:50  <louislandry> just makes us look bad
2010-05-11T17:39:53  <louislandry> and gives them more credence
2010-05-11T17:40:14  <infograf768> do you know exactly where that error was in their code?
2010-05-11T17:40:41  <infograf768> I will be pleased to let it known...
2010-05-11T17:40:44  <AndrewEddie> I would have pointed it out if that was the only problem
2010-05-11T17:41:37  <AndrewEddie> we really need Ian on this decision as well?
2010-05-11T17:42:08  <louislandry> well i'd say we need at least ian or mark
2010-05-11T17:42:20  <louislandry> also i'd like us to find a way to have sam at these meetings if we can
2010-05-11T17:42:21  <louislandry> he's never here
2010-05-11T17:42:34  <louislandry> i don't know exaclty why, but i assume its a schedule conflict
2010-05-11T17:42:44  <AndrewEddie> it's leave for work time
2010-05-11T17:42:53  <louislandry> can we do them an hour earlier or later then?
2010-05-11T17:43:02  <louislandry> anyway...
2010-05-11T17:43:04  <AndrewEddie> earlier suits me
2010-05-11T17:43:07  <louislandry> we need to solve that
2010-05-11T17:43:14  <louislandry> earlier would work for north america i'd assume
2010-05-11T17:43:33  <AndrewEddie> should work for europe as well ;)
2010-05-11T17:44:02  <AndrewEddie> I'll see what sam can do
2010-05-11T17:44:10  <AndrewEddie> Ron is another
2010-05-11T17:44:15  <infograf768> earlier would be great here in Europe
2010-05-11T17:44:18  <AndrewEddie> though it's not the time for him I think
2010-05-11T17:45:08  <AndrewEddie> I'll ping Sam and work it out
2010-05-11T17:45:35  <louislandry> thanks
2010-05-11T17:46:51  <AndrewEddie> well, I think we send a private mail to Ian and Mark and get their thoughts on reverting the plugin patch, OR we wait until next meeting
2010-05-11T17:47:13  <infograf768> I am not in favour of waiting more on this
2010-05-11T17:47:20  <louislandry> or we call another meeting on thursday
2010-05-11T17:47:22  <louislandry> when mark is back
2010-05-11T17:47:25  <louislandry> he's back tomorrow
2010-05-11T17:47:33  <infograf768> ok for that
2010-05-11T17:47:35  <AndrewEddie> ok, let's do that
2010-05-11T17:47:36  <infograf768> here
2010-05-11T17:47:38  <louislandry> and just deal with it
2010-05-11T17:47:55  <louislandry> AndrewEddie: can you work with sam to get a time that works on thursday
2010-05-11T17:48:07  <louislandry> hopefully we can find a window where most of us can show
2010-05-11T17:48:19  <AndrewEddie> your thursday?
2010-05-11T17:48:22  <louislandry> yes
2010-05-11T17:48:26  <louislandry> your friday morn
2010-05-11T17:48:39  <infograf768> hmm, my Thursady night?
2010-05-11T17:48:44  <louislandry> yes
2010-05-11T17:48:45  <louislandry> :)
2010-05-11T17:48:58  <AndrewEddie> done
2010-05-11T17:49:04  <infograf768> or maybe Thursday morning early my time?
2010-05-11T17:49:32  <AndrewEddie> ok, last point is 1.6 beta readiness
2010-05-11T17:49:41  <louislandry> http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=5&day=13&year=2010&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=178
2010-05-11T17:49:42  <jools> Title: The Fixed Time World Clock (at timeanddate.com)
2010-05-11T17:49:47  <louislandry> that is a starting point
2010-05-11T17:50:05  <infograf768> 23h00 here, OK
2010-05-11T17:50:18  <infograf768> Let's mail it to PLT
2010-05-11T17:52:39  <AndrewEddie> I'll do that
2010-05-11T17:54:32  <AndrewEddie> done
2010-05-11T17:55:09  <AndrewEddie> so 1.6 Beta stuff
2010-05-11T17:55:19  <AndrewEddie> Louis are you back on deck enough to do all the PR interviews?
2010-05-11T17:55:24  <infograf768> oh, private. right
2010-05-11T17:55:55  <louislandry> Umm..
2010-05-11T17:56:01  <louislandry> I could probably pick up some
2010-05-11T17:56:03  <louislandry> maybe even most
2010-05-11T17:56:06  <louislandry> but i dunno about all
2010-05-11T17:56:11  <louislandry> i still get exhausted quickly
2010-05-11T17:56:19  <AndrewEddie> ok, let's work it out after the meeting then
2010-05-11T17:56:30  <AndrewEddie> I've got a heap of mails from Justin this morning
2010-05-11T17:56:32  <louislandry> i'm able to function in bursts
2010-05-11T17:56:34  <louislandry> ok
2010-05-11T17:56:43  <AndrewEddie> I'm happy to take the slack
2010-05-11T17:57:25  <AndrewEddie> JM, do you have any overall concerns (big picture, not individual bugs)?
2010-05-11T17:57:57  <infograf768> it's getting much better
2010-05-11T17:58:12  <infograf768> hannes revretd his commit that was breaking SEF
2010-05-11T17:58:29  <infograf768> we have to look into this deeper
2010-05-11T17:58:30  <AndrewEddie> yeah, Angie told me last night
2010-05-11T17:58:47  <AndrewEddie> oh, speaking of, did we decide Beez was to become the default template?
2010-05-11T17:58:53  <infograf768> Although he first refused when Christophe asked him
2010-05-11T17:59:03  <infograf768> Yes, as far as I know
2010-05-11T17:59:25  <infograf768> big picture is: get rid of all useless stuff in trunk
2010-05-11T17:59:47  <louislandry> yes
2010-05-11T17:59:51  <louislandry> beez should be default
2010-05-11T18:00:04  <infograf768> start testing taking of the OLD strings in the inis
2010-05-11T18:00:27  <infograf768> make sure we get the right error strings in front-end
2010-05-11T18:00:52  <infograf768> aprt from that still many bugs, including the mail function
2010-05-11T18:01:27  <infograf768> that one has to be solved asap if possible, for us to check all parts of the interface where mail is concerned
2010-05-11T18:01:40  <AndrewEddie> is that just SMTP though?
2010-05-11T18:01:52  <infograf768> and sendmail I think
2010-05-11T18:02:02  <AndrewEddie> ok, but regular PHP mail is ok?
2010-05-11T18:02:09  <infograf768> but none of us as phpmail local
2010-05-11T18:02:26  <infograf768> so it's hard to test anything
2010-05-11T18:02:47  <infograf768> FYI, I tried last phpmail lib and no chnage
2010-05-11T18:03:01  <infograf768> so it is trunk
2010-05-11T18:03:13  <AndrewEddie> so none of the mail functions work at all?
2010-05-11T18:03:21  <infograf768> only phpmail
2010-05-11T18:03:26  <infograf768> works
2010-05-11T18:03:27  <AndrewEddie> ok
2010-05-11T18:03:41  <AndrewEddie> as long as that works, that's something
2010-05-11T18:04:22  <AndrewEddie> louislandry: you got enough energy to catch up after the meeting to coordinate what's on "the list"?
2010-05-11T18:04:31  <louislandry> ya i'll stick around
2010-05-11T18:04:56  <louislandry> would like to chat anyway
2010-05-11T18:06:04  <AndrewEddie> ok, well, there's nothing else I had to cover
2010-05-11T18:06:30  <louislandry> i was just coming to sort of catch up on the last few days i've been gone
2010-05-11T18:06:53  <AndrewEddie> I should be on Joomla all this week but will be preparing for my lectures on Saturday - however, that will probably involve fixing bugs in areas I want to deomonstrate
2010-05-11T18:07:09  <louislandry> I should be getting close to 100% later in the week
2010-05-11T18:07:15  <infograf768> so, on 1.6, shall Christophe and I go on debugging  as we did in the recent days?
2010-05-11T18:07:21  <infograf768> weeks
2010-05-11T18:07:23  <louislandry> sure
2010-05-11T18:07:26  <AndrewEddie> yep
2010-05-11T18:07:28  <louislandry> that's what needs to be done now
2010-05-11T18:07:30  <louislandry> fix bugs
2010-05-11T18:07:39  <AndrewEddie> what's in the trunk is what's shipping
2010-05-11T18:07:45  <infograf768> there are heavy one in com_media frontend
2010-05-11T18:07:57  <AndrewEddie> new stuff shouldn't be going in unless it's actually fixing some major stuff up
2010-05-11T18:08:05  <infograf768> we can't insert image in article there
2010-05-11T18:08:16  <AndrewEddie> ok
2010-05-11T18:09:05  <infograf768> I ahve asked Elin if she could name the modules used to help debugging:
2010-05-11T18:09:25  <infograf768> calling every menu with menu appended
2010-05-11T18:09:47  <infograf768> as we get lost in sample data
2010-05-11T18:09:59  <AndrewEddie> main thing is to ensure issues are going on the tracker and discussion is happening on the JBS mailing list
2010-05-11T18:10:28  <AndrewEddie> then if people get hit by a bus, we are still ok (sort of )
2010-05-11T18:10:30  <infograf768> well some people just do it by personal chat. If we can solve, we do
2010-05-11T18:10:37  <AndrewEddie> sure, go for it
2010-05-11T18:10:49  <infograf768> Dennis is a good example of that type
2010-05-11T18:11:04  <infograf768> I can move him on some stuff ;)
2010-05-11T18:11:16  <AndrewEddie> if you need me to look at something, raise a tracker issue and assign me to it - otherwise all these notes people are leaving me will get lost :)
2010-05-11T18:11:26  <infograf768> as long as Hannes does not break stuff...
2010-05-11T18:11:44  <louislandry> good thing you've never broken anything :P
2010-05-11T18:11:45  <AndrewEddie> we probably need to make it clear, the time for refactoring is past
2010-05-11T18:11:56  <infograf768> which he does because he does not test his commits
2010-05-11T18:12:31  <infograf768> for exampel the beez commit (we found an issue in imagelist grace to that) and solved
2010-05-11T18:12:49  <infograf768> and his sef commit that brole the sliders and anchors
2010-05-11T18:12:52  <infograf768> broke
2010-05-11T18:12:53  <AndrewEddie> ok, well, we can follow those things up later
2010-05-11T18:13:00  <AndrewEddie> meeting closed
2010-05-11T18:13:16  <AndrewEddie> time for another cuppa
2010-05-11T18:13:40  <chrisdavenport> I just arrived in time then :P
2010-05-11T18:13:48  <chrisdavenport> Sorry, got delayed.
2010-05-11T18:13:50  <AndrewEddie> ha
2010-05-11T18:13:52  <infograf768> OK, as in the past, I will contact you when issues
2010-05-11T18:14:03  <infograf768> hello Chris
2010-05-11T18:14:05  <AndrewEddie> ok, quickly, Chris anything to report from you?
2010-05-11T18:14:07  <chrisdavenport> Hi JM
2010-05-11T18:14:21  <AndrewEddie> with regard to beta
2010-05-11T18:14:22  <chrisdavenport> Not really.  Started on the help screens.
2010-05-11T18:14:28  <chrisdavenport> Early days yet.
2010-05-11T18:14:45  <AndrewEddie> so nothing holding you back code wise?
2010-05-11T18:14:50  <chrisdavenport> Nope.
2010-05-11T18:14:54  <AndrewEddie> cool
2010-05-11T18:15:08  <infograf768> Chris, while you are here, can we talk here in PLT about our discussion on help screens for ajoomla instance?
2010-05-11T18:15:20  <chrisdavenport> Sure.
2010-05-11T18:15:30  <infograf768> As I guess this should go through PLT and OSM
2010-05-11T18:15:48  <infograf768> Let me ex[plain fast for Louis and Andrew
2010-05-11T18:16:31  <infograf768> Last year, the Norwegian community made a donation to OSM to get the wiki contents dumped into a joomla instance
2010-05-11T18:17:03  <infograf768> as they (and others) like better the use of joomla and joomfish to take care of help screens
2010-05-11T18:17:39  <infograf768> this, I quote you Chris, requires a specific component to be made
2010-05-11T18:18:02  <infograf768> and it is (I still quote you) a 2 days job at least
2010-05-11T18:18:37  <chrisdavenport> Probably less for Louis or Andrew. ;)
2010-05-11T18:18:41  <infograf768> so, my question to PLT is: how do we deal with this? (Chris has made a nice doc on what this comp should do)
2010-05-11T18:19:20  <infograf768> correction: the wiki contents for help screens only
2010-05-11T18:19:38  <louislandry> is chris capable and willing to do the work?
2010-05-11T18:20:07  <infograf768> Chris can do if we discuss with his company and pay them
2010-05-11T18:20:14  <infograf768> for his work
2010-05-11T18:20:22  <infograf768> better let you explain Chris
2010-05-11T18:20:49  <chrisdavenport> The problem for me is that I'm way over-committed on time and this wasn't really a high priority for me.
2010-05-11T18:21:05  <chrisdavenport> So I thought it might be a way to get things moving for TTs
2010-05-11T18:21:35  <louislandry> I have no issue paying chris
2010-05-11T18:21:40  <louislandry> why does it have to go through a company?
2010-05-11T18:21:46  <louislandry> or are we talking about "chris' company"
2010-05-11T18:21:50  <infograf768> yes
2010-05-11T18:22:01  <chrisdavenport> The company I work for (part-time).
2010-05-11T18:22:06  <infograf768> his boss, right?
2010-05-11T18:22:09  <infograf768> yeah
2010-05-11T18:22:13  <louislandry> we can't just pay you directly as a contractor?
2010-05-11T18:22:30  <chrisdavenport> Well, I don't really have enough spare time.
2010-05-11T18:22:53  <AndrewEddie> has the money already been donated?
2010-05-11T18:22:53  <chrisdavenport> So if it goes through the company I get to do it during daylight hours. :P
2010-05-11T18:23:05  <louislandry> Money already has been donated
2010-05-11T18:23:05  <louislandry> yes
2010-05-11T18:23:05  <infograf768> yes, the moneys were donated
2010-05-11T18:23:15  <louislandry> I spoke with Ole about this last year
2010-05-11T18:23:17  <infograf768> and specifically for this task
2010-05-11T18:23:22  <AndrewEddie> ok, did OSM establish an agreement for that money?
2010-05-11T18:23:37  <infograf768> don't know these aspects
2010-05-11T18:23:38  <chrisdavenport> I don't really mind who takes on the task though.  It doesn't have to be me.
2010-05-11T18:23:49  <louislandry> at the time I had suggested all we really needed was a joomla site and a system plugin and some modifications to com_content ... minor ones
2010-05-11T18:24:32  <louislandry> I don't have an issue with Chris doing it... I think it is a little more interesting/tricky if we are just hiring a firm to do it.
2010-05-11T18:24:40  <louislandry> That isn't something we've really done before
2010-05-11T18:24:53  <louislandry> At that level I would say its out of PLT hands and into OSM hands
2010-05-11T18:25:00  <louislandry> as it really becomes a pure business decision
2010-05-11T18:25:08  <chrisdavenport> Well, I wanted to keep negotiations at arms length.
2010-05-11T18:25:18  <infograf768> that is indeed what was my first thought
2010-05-11T18:25:37  <louislandry> What might be interesting
2010-05-11T18:25:42  <infograf768> but, we, as PLT have to formally ask OSM about it
2010-05-11T18:25:51  <louislandry> is if we spec out exactly what we want done
2010-05-11T18:25:58  <AndrewEddie> well, if OSM has negotiated a specific outcome for a donation, that puts it out of the PLT's hands per se - they can of course "boss" me or louis around, or engage someone else privately to do it
2010-05-11T18:26:02  <louislandry> and OSM can then just put out an RFC to community firms
2010-05-11T18:26:29  <chrisdavenport> That sounds like a good idea.
2010-05-11T18:26:39  <chrisdavenport> I've basically already written the spec.
2010-05-11T18:26:47  <louislandry> So then we are almost there.
2010-05-11T18:26:48  <chrisdavenport> So anyone could take it up.
2010-05-11T18:27:01  <louislandry> Seriously chris I don't have ANY issue with paying you to do it.
2010-05-11T18:27:10  <louislandry> I do think its a horse of a different color though
2010-05-11T18:27:14  <infograf768> evidently I suggest this to be done on a 1.6 base
2010-05-11T18:27:16  <louislandry> when we talk about paying the firm you work for
2010-05-11T18:27:37  <louislandry> not that i think its evil or bad
2010-05-11T18:27:41  <louislandry> just a different conversation with the public
2010-05-11T18:27:56  <louislandry> i'm actually still for it generally... but i think it may suit us better to do the RFC thing
2010-05-11T18:28:13  <chrisdavenport> I'm good with that.
2010-05-11T18:28:17  <AndrewEddie> I don't have a problem with people getting paid for things, but are we suggesting that the PLT is subject to OSM allowing people to "buy" features?
2010-05-11T18:28:17  <infograf768> me too
2010-05-11T18:28:32  <AndrewEddie> or am I looking at this the wrong way
2010-05-11T18:28:32  <louislandry> its not a joomla feature
2010-05-11T18:28:39  <chrisdavenport> Exactly.
2010-05-11T18:28:41  <louislandry> it is a functionality for our web site
2010-05-11T18:28:51  <louislandry> its not something to go in trunk
2010-05-11T18:28:55  <chrisdavenport> It's a tool to help the TTs
2010-05-11T18:28:55  <AndrewEddie> right
2010-05-11T18:28:59  <louislandry> its a separate tool
2010-05-11T18:29:07  <infograf768> as is com_localise
2010-05-11T18:29:13  <AndrewEddie> ok
2010-05-11T18:29:20  <louislandry> in that way its no different than OSM paying me to work on the developer site
2010-05-11T18:29:30  <AndrewEddie> ok
2010-05-11T18:29:32  <infograf768> yes
2010-05-11T18:29:33  <louislandry> or any other piece of joomla.org stuff
2010-05-11T18:29:35  <AndrewEddie> got it now
2010-05-11T18:29:49  <AndrewEddie> it's the first time I've heard of it
2010-05-11T18:29:54  <louislandry> ya
2010-05-11T18:29:58  <AndrewEddie> didn't have the big picture
2010-05-11T18:30:02  <louislandry> well before it happened i spoke with Ole
2010-05-11T18:30:08  <louislandry> but i never really knew what the status was
2010-05-11T18:30:11  <louislandry> or if there was any sort of spec
2010-05-11T18:30:17  <louislandry> its good we seem to have that now
2010-05-11T18:30:29  <chrisdavenport> I honestly thought that some dev amongst the TTs would take it upon themselves to code it.
2010-05-11T18:30:39  <chrisdavenport> But nobody seems to have taken it up.
2010-05-11T18:30:40  <infograf768> this came when I realised that the new help system was getting in
2010-05-11T18:30:41  <louislandry> in a perfect world...
2010-05-11T18:30:58  <infograf768> among TTS we have almost no devs, folks
2010-05-11T18:31:27  <AndrewEddie> in that case, I don't have any objection to however gets paid to do it if that's what OSM is doing - I don't think it matters other than we being kept in the loop
2010-05-11T18:31:32  <infograf768> in the coordination, the best dev is me ;) see how low we are...
2010-05-11T18:32:04  <infograf768> then we have to decide who is taking thi issue to OSm and follow up
2010-05-11T18:32:12  <infograf768> louis can you?
2010-05-11T18:32:17  <AndrewEddie> hang on
2010-05-11T18:32:25  <AndrewEddie> so OSM hasn't been approached
2010-05-11T18:32:44  <infograf768> not yet, they only have the moneys
2010-05-11T18:32:56  <infograf768> maybe not enough btw
2010-05-11T18:33:16  <infograf768> depends on cost
2010-05-11T18:33:18  <AndrewEddie> ok, I think "I don't want to know" and I'll go with what you guys think is best :)
2010-05-11T18:33:31  <louislandry> I mean I can send a note on behalf of the plt
2010-05-11T18:33:33  <chrisdavenport> Not sure if OSM has any plans for the money.  I don't know the details either.
2010-05-11T18:33:37  <louislandry> is that what you are asking for me?
2010-05-11T18:33:42  <infograf768> yes, louis
2010-05-11T18:33:48  <louislandry> *shrug*
2010-05-11T18:33:48  <louislandry> ok
2010-05-11T18:33:54  <louislandry> chris can you send me the spec then?
2010-05-11T18:33:58  <chrisdavenport> Sure.
2010-05-11T18:34:14  <louislandry> ok
2010-05-11T18:34:33  <infograf768> I would do it if I was not so ignorant in that kind of things.
2010-05-11T18:34:45  <infograf768> better let the one who knows do it
2010-05-11T18:34:51  <louislandry> lol, ok
2010-05-11T18:35:43  <louislandry> are we done?
2010-05-11T18:35:55  <infograf768> for me yes, until thursday
2010-05-11T18:35:56  <chrisdavenport> ygm.
2010-05-11T18:36:09  <chrisdavenport> Yep, nothing else from me.
2010-05-11T18:36:21  * louislandry slams the gavel
2010-05-11T18:36:27  <infograf768> shall we put this in the Doc or just wait?
2010-05-11T18:36:29  <louislandry> adjourned
2010-05-11T18:36:35  <louislandry> go ahead
2010-05-11T18:38:09  <infograf768> lease correct the doc
2010-05-11T18:39:05  <infograf768> Marijke is going to test wiki to wiki help screens, Chris
2010-05-11T18:39:25  <infograf768> Marijke and Stella prefer wikis
2010-05-11T18:39:49  <infograf768> cya folks