Archiving Wiki pages

[Tom Hutchison]

All,

Starting to clean up the wiki. Many pages without categories, links to and from other wiki pages and outdated information.

I thought I would ask about these two first.  One hasn't been touched in a few years and the other early last fall. Bot run tells me 1/2 links on these pages are filled with links which returns 404, time outs, 403, etc. errors. 

These pages will be archived unless someone adamantly objects. 

http://docs.joomla.org/Higher_Education_Websites_Using_Joomla

http://docs.joomla.org/Government_Websites_Using_Joomla 

It has been suggested these pages might have been put together to gather info for PR a few years back.

Thanks

Tom

[Michael Babker]

The government websites page was a companion to JoomlaGov.info (more about that at http://joomlagov.info/about) which was fairly active until the first half last year I think.  The education site listing, that's the first I've seen of it.

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[Tom Hutchison]

Hi Michael

Yes, I saw joomlagov.info grabbed a lot of the content off of the page. Think they even had a write up about how they did it.  Also they noted bad links and time outs, plus links now behind log ins too.

The page is huge and at the point I tried to add a notice at the top and it is throwing an error now.

Tom

[Paul Orwig]

Thanks Tom for doing this work and for checking in with us about it. Those pages almost seem like candidates for needing a dedicated team that's checking each week for adds/changes/deletes.

In the absence of keeping them updated, I can't disagree with archiving those two pages.

There's a link on the joomla.org home page to that website of government listings too. Assuming that website also has a lot of bad links, maybe we should give them a nudge to please make sure that site is kept up to date, or if not to remove the link on the home page? I think setting that site up was a good example of a community effort, and Joomla's presence in government sites was given as a reason why Joomla won the Packt award for best PHP CMS in 2011 or 2012.

Thanks again,

paul

[Tom Hutchison]

Thanks Paul. I think there's a showcase site run by CLT too. 

I like the one site joomlagov.info. It's pretty neat and easy to navigate. I don't think we own it. Perhaps they would be willing to help set up our own and integrate the Ed sites too. 

Tom

[Jacques Rentzke]

hi Tom

The idea behind finding and listing government sites (that are built on
Joomla!), dates back about 3 years. As Michael mentioned, there's some
of the history is mentioned here: http://joomlagov.info/about

Just less then 2 years ago, Ryan Ozimek led the effort for the
Higher_Education_Websites_Using_Joomla wiki page, and many people have
since contributed to it.

From that, the idea was born to represent the huge list of sites
graphically on joomlagov.info and many community members also
contributed to that effort.

The joomlagov site is still actively being maintained. It serves as
good PR for the wide use of Joomla in the government area.

There was however a disconnect in that the wiki page (where it started)
is no longer kept in sync.

My suggestion is to contact one of the maintainers of the joomlagov
site, to find a way to also keep the wiki page up to date. (with the
alternative to archive it)

Perhaps there's a way to automate it?

I can facilitate the contact, since I do contract work Matthew
Philogene, who's one of the maintainers. (I'll point him to this discussion)

Regarding the wiki page for Higher Education. I think it's a useful list
to keep, and it's something I've also been interested in building on
myself (similar to the joomlagov site).

Perhaps two questions:

- What does archiving mean in effect?
- Would there be an issue in keeping the pages if someone regularly
checks the links?

regards,

Jacques Rentzke
Open Source Matters, Inc.

On 2013/03/25 05:04 AM, Tom Hutchison wrote:
> Thanks Paul. I think there's a showcase site run by CLT too.
>
> I like the one site joomlagov.info. It's pretty neat and easy to
> navigate. I don't think we own it. Perhaps they would be willing to help
> set up our own and integrate the Ed sites too.
>
> Tom
>
> On Mar 24, 2013, at 9:28 PM, Paul Orwig <paul....@community.joomla.org

> <mailto:paul....@community.joomla.org>> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Tom for doing this work and for checking in with us about it.
>> Those pages almost seem like candidates for needing a dedicated team
>> that's checking each week for adds/changes/deletes.
>>
>> In the absence of keeping them updated, I can't disagree with
>> archiving those two pages.
>>

>> There's a link on the joomla.org <http://joomla.org> home page to that

>> website of government listings too. Assuming that website also has a
>> lot of bad links, maybe we should give them a nudge to please make
>> sure that site is kept up to date, or if not to remove the link on the
>> home page? I think setting that site up was a good example of a
>> community effort, and Joomla's presence in government sites was given
>> as a reason why Joomla won the Packt award for best PHP CMS in 2011 or
>> 2012.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Tom Hutchison
>> <tom.hu...@community.joomla.org

>> <mailto:tom.hu...@community.joomla.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael
>>

>> Yes, I saw joomlagov.info <http://joomlagov.info> grabbed a lot of

>> <mailto:joomla-leaders...@googlegroups.com>.

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[Brad Baker]

As a suggestion.. 

Why not consider moving the joomlagov.info site to our official infrastructure (joomla.org or a subdomain)? That way, no syn needs to exist with the wiki.. we can just list all site there.

Simple is often much easier to maintain.

[Tom Hutchison]

I like Brad's idea. Simple is better and it would be a one stop for all, one site to maintain place. I don't think the current gov page on the wiki can be updated any further. I tried to post a notice on page and I'm getting an error now. 

Mediawiki stores all external links on a page in an external links table. With over 2000 links you're hitting the db pretty hard when doing anything on the page or even trying to display it. Simply, mediawiki is not the ideal method of listing links. 

Higher Ed, hasn't been updated since April 2011, but still is a good resource which should be rolled into a showcase type site like the gov site is now. 

Archiving is essentially blanking the page with 2 links and a nice graphic saying this page has been archived for historical purposes. 1 link can be a see here for location of this information now. The other would be a view the last state of this page before archiving. 

Tom

[Paul Orwig]

I like the idea to expand the showcase concept on joomla.org. There is another showcase-related initiative that Alice and I have talked about at JD DK, JWC, and I mentioned about at JDay Boston. It's called "Think Bigger" and the concept is to encourage and support JUGs to develop and support Joomla sites that are for charities, non-profits, and worthy causes. Part of the concept is to have a showcase of those sites and recognizing the JUGs and sponsors that support the initiative. We have a small volunteer team in place that is starting work on the initiative and we have discussed the initiative with Sander who has given his support to it.

So, perhaps the expanded showcase idea could encompass how Joomla is being used for (1) government, (2) higher education, (3) non-profits, and (4) other...

Thanks,

paul

[Jacques Rentzke]

hi

@ Tom, thanks for the explanation.

Slightly off topic from what you originally asked, but while thinking
about this it should be understood that the joomlagov site is not "ours"
and "we" did not create it. Well some of us did help... :)

It was created as a community initiative.

There's many good reasons why such sites should exist independent, and
be encouraged. The more high traffic site there is about Joomla, the
more it benefits the whole Joomla project.

I guess that page on the wiki has served it's purpose. (as
collection-point for all those gov links) I did ask Matthew, and
there's no easy way to keep it in sync. And as you mention it's starting
to put strain on the wiki.


@ Paul, I think that the joomlagov is more meant as a demonstration of
the wide use of Joomla! while a Showcase site would not be interested so
much in volume (number of sites), but rather in quality (best of the best).

regards,


Jacques Rentzke
Open Source Matters, Inc.

On 2013/03/25 06:12 PM, Paul Orwig wrote:
> I like the idea to expand the showcase concept on joomla.org

> <http://joomla.org>. There is another showcase-related initiative that

> Alice and I have talked about at JD DK, JWC, and I mentioned about at
> JDay Boston. It's called "Think Bigger" and the concept is to encourage
> and support JUGs to develop and support Joomla sites that are for
> charities, non-profits, and worthy causes. Part of the concept is to
> have a showcase of those sites and recognizing the JUGs and sponsors
> that support the initiative. We have a small volunteer team in place
> that is starting work on the initiative and we have discussed the
> initiative with Sander who has given his support to it.
>
> So, perhaps the expanded showcase idea could encompass how Joomla is
> being used for (1) government, (2) higher education, (3) non-profits,
> and (4) other...
>
> Thanks,
>
> paul
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Tom Hutchison
> <tom.hu...@community.joomla.org

> <mailto:tom.hu...@community.joomla.org>> wrote:
>
> I like Brad's idea. Simple is better and it would be a one stop for
> all, one site to maintain place. I don't think the current gov page
> on the wiki can be updated any further. I tried to post a notice on
> page and I'm getting an error now.
>
> Mediawiki stores all external links on a page in an external links
> table. With over 2000 links you're hitting the db pretty hard when
> doing anything on the page or even trying to display it. Simply,
> mediawiki is not the ideal method of listing links.
>
> Higher Ed, hasn't been updated since April 2011, but still is a good
> resource which should be rolled into a showcase type site like the
> gov site is now.
>
> Archiving is essentially blanking the page with 2 links and a nice
> graphic saying this page has been archived for historical purposes.
> 1 link can be a see here for location of this information now. The
> other would be a view the last state of this page before archiving.
>
> Tom
>
> On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:52 AM, Brad Baker <br...@joomlatutorials.com

> <mailto:br...@joomlatutorials.com>> wrote:
>
>> As a suggestion..
>>

>> Why not consider moving the joomlagov.info <http://joomlagov.info>

>> site to our official infrastructure (joomla.org

>> <http://joomla.org> or a subdomain)? That way, no syn needs to

>> exist with the wiki.. we can just list all site there.
>>
>> Simple is often much easier to maintain.
>>
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>>
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[Paul Orwig]

Hi Jacques,

Thanks for your feedback. I think some of this is semantics, it doesn't really matter if a resource is called a showcase or a directory. And there can be more than one intended purpose for different showcases/directories. One might be intended to show all sites, while another might be to feature a set of best sites. So for me, there's really no issue with that.

I understand that the joomlainfo.gov site is managed by another group. I think Brad's idea is a good one, and if that is the direction the group prefers to take, then I think the next step would be to ask that group if they agree to have their site moved to joomla.org.

Regards,

paul

<tom.hutchison@community.joomla.org

<mailto:tom.hutchison@community.joomla.org>> wrote:

    I like Brad's idea. Simple is better and it would be a one stop for
    all, one site to maintain place. I don't think the current gov page
    on the wiki can be updated any further. I tried to post a notice on
    page and I'm getting an error now.

    Mediawiki stores all external links on a page in an external links
    table. With over 2000 links you're hitting the db pretty hard when
    doing anything on the page or even trying to display it. Simply,
    mediawiki is not the ideal method of listing links.

    Higher Ed, hasn't been updated since April 2011, but still is a good
    resource which should be rolled into a showcase type site like the
    gov site is now.

    Archiving is essentially blanking the page with 2 links and a nice
    graphic saying this page has been archived for historical purposes.
    1 link can be a see here for location of this information now. The
    other would be a view the last state of this page before archiving.

    Tom

    On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:52 AM, Brad Baker <br...@joomlatutorials.com

    <mailto:brad@joomlatutorials.com>> wrote:

    As a suggestion..

    Why not consider moving the joomlagov.info <http://joomlagov.info>

    site to our official infrastructure (joomla.org

    <http://joomla.org> or a subdomain)? That way, no syn needs to

    exist with the wiki.. we can just list all site there.

    Simple is often much easier to maintain.

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    Groups "Joomla Leadership Team" group.
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