Joomla and PHP-FIG

[Nick Savov]

Hi all,

Due to increased work and unexpected family pressures, Andrew Eddie had to step down as Joomla's representative in the PHP Framework Interop Group (http://www.php-fig.org/).  Does anyone have a strong interest in volunteering for this position and representing Joomla?  If so, could you please say so in this thread or email me (nick....@community.joomla.org) or David Hurley (david....@joomla.org) privately?  Thanks in advance!

Kind regards,

Nick

[Nick Savov]

Also, I missed a great opportunity to publicly thank Andrew for his outstanding work representing Joomla in PHP FIG.  Andrew, thank you so much for representing Jooma's interests and being actively involved within PHP FIG!  I think you've set an excellent standard for the next representative that will follow in your footsteps.  Thanks again, Andrew!

Kind regards,

Nick

[Donald Gilbert]

I'm interested in the position. :) (Is that all you need?)

Kind regards,

Nick

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Visit http://developer.joomla.org for more information about developing with Joomla!
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[Amy Stephen]

Probably should be a framework maintainer. They will have to modify aspects of the framework in order to comply with the interfaces and various standards. (Meaning, might not make sense for someone without the keys to car, so to speak.) Be good, though, to continue to keep the broader community involved and the votes should reflect the will of the entire framework team.

[Andrew Eddie]

Don would be my recommendation. He's already engaged in the new autoloader PSR that should be coming up for vote soon. There is a new bylaw now for how to notify the FIG about a change of voting member so please review that. I suggest the easiest thing is just to minute the change in PLT Meeting Notes on developer.joomla.org and refer FIG to that.

Regards,
Andrew Eddie
http://learn.theartofjoomla.com - free tutorials and videos on Joomla development

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[Amy Stephen]

On Monday, May 13, 2013 5:29:58 PM UTC-5, Andrew Eddie wrote:

Don would be my recommendation. He's already engaged in the new autoloader PSR that should be coming up for vote soon.

Voting is underway. Needs 9 to pass. Has 8. If you want this - please go vote - grumblings are starting.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/php-fig/Ua46E344_Ls

[Amy Stephen]

I talked to Nick about the posting for this on the CMS list. I wanted to just share some of my concerns on this.

The FIG group is very low-level. The membership members are those top technical devs within their projects. They have the deepest skills, they have the ability to effect change, and they are highly skilled in OO, PHP, networking, standards, performance, security, and so on.

These people are the PHP industry elders, if you will.

The kind of work they do discusses how pieces of software fit together. They make agreements on how those integrations take place and how code is uncoupled so that it can be exchanged. Those discussions and decisions help define important roadmap items for this team. These are emerging, evolving standards that will help this team keep the framework viable for this community.

The vast majority of people in this community, in this project, will not understand the discussions. They will not know how to consider the impact of options on this code base. They will not be able to make the decisions that best serve this community. They will not be able to implement the changes that are required.

There's a delicate balance in an open source community between involvement where anyone can participate and having the wisdom to know when it is critical to staff by skill and experience. It is getting very competitive in this open source industry and like it or not, you got to have *some* developers with immense skill. They will not participate if they are not respected and treated like professional and empowered to do what needs to be done for the community.

This one little involvement cannot be shared with everyone because everyone is not qualified. It belongs to this team. They have the packages of code that can be used by other projects. That's the focus of this group.

I would ask that the PLT empower the framework maintainers to decide who is the best one to serve them and help interface with FIG so they can continue to use those involvements to make the framework code as good as it can be for our community.

On Monday, May 13, 2013 1:32:10 PM UTC-5, Nick Savov wrote:

[Andrew Eddie]

On 14 May 2013 11:09, Amy Stephen <amyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

I talked to Nick about the posting for this on the CMS list. I wanted to just share some of my concerns on this.

The FIG group is very low-level. The membership members are those top technical devs within their projects. They have the deepest skills, they have the ability to effect change, and they are highly skilled in OO, PHP, networking, standards, performance, security, and so on.

These people are the PHP industry elders, if you will.

The kind of work they do discusses how pieces of software fit together. They make agreements on how those integrations take place and how code is uncoupled so that it can be exchanged. Those discussions and decisions help define important roadmap items for this team. These are emerging, evolving standards that will help this team keep the framework viable for this community.

The vast majority of people in this community, in this project, will not understand the discussions. They will not know how to consider the impact of options on this code base. They will not be able to make the decisions that best serve this community. They will not be able to implement the changes that are required.

There's a delicate balance in an open source community between involvement where anyone can participate and having the wisdom to know when it is critical to staff by skill and experience. It is getting very competitive in this open source industry and like it or not, you got to have *some* developers with immense skill. They will not participate if they are not respected and treated like professional and empowered to do what needs to be done for the community.

This one little involvement cannot be shared with everyone because everyone is not qualified. It belongs to this team. They have the packages of code that can be used by other projects. That's the focus of this group.

I would ask that the PLT empower the framework maintainers to decide who is the best one to serve them and help interface with FIG so they can continue to use those involvements to make the framework code as good as it can be for our community.

Yep, this is a job for a specialist. All FIG will need is some proof from the PLT - just decide and make it happen.

Regards,

Andrew Eddie

[Amy Stephen]

Want to thank Nick for a lot of his time tonight. I walked thru some examples of interfaces and adapters and how they work to build in flexibility. And how interproject flexibility involves defining those interfaces across projects.

We also talked ideas on creating a flexible service layer to pull these framework packages back under the cms so they have what they have now PLUS the flexibility.

I think the linkage between this group and the work the framework team is doing might be a little easier to see. It'd be nice to have a video that explained some of these concepts so that the penny drops for people how this can be used by the cms.

Anyway, I appreciate Nick's patience, even thru some horribly worded sentences on my part, to think on these things. I like where the industry is heading but it is going so fast - it takes so much time to learn and then do, that there is very little if any time left to also help others see it, too.

Anyway - I think the link between the Framework *work* and FIG is hopefully more clear.  If not, I can bore him more =)

On Monday, May 13, 2013 1:32:10 PM UTC-5, Nick Savov wrote:

[Andrew Eddie]

Amy, there seems to be a sub-story here that is being lost at least on me and probably others. What exactly is the problem? We [Joomla] have been a voting member of FIG for a while. It's worthwhile for Joomla to be involved while we maintain a separate Framework (and my hope is the CMS make itself more aware of the issues that FIG is discussing). We should continue to have a voting presence.

Regards,
Andrew Eddie

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[Amy Stephen]

Totally agree. But, like I said above - it should be from the framework team. It fits in with the work this team does. Recruiting someone from other than the framework team for this role would be the problem. But, I think it's good.

[Andrew Eddie]

Oh, you mean cross-posting this on the CMS list?

Regards,
Andrew Eddie