[jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

[Mike Osborn]

Todd,

I am forwarding this to the Jo'peckers group as we have several members who live in the El Chante area.  I am certain that either one of our group or someone they know in the El Chante area would be interested in the wetlands project.  Jo'peckers may want to read the preceding two messages to understand Todd's last message.

As I said about the Joco-Malecon water treatment plant, I found it very difficult to believe they'd demolish the existing and built a "bigger - better" somewhere.  It just didn't make any sense.  I do like the concept of moving CETAC and utilizing the area for treatment plant expansion. I would think that CETAC would support the plan as it could make going to school more pleasant (smells/odors).  

And speaking CETAC and water treatment;  It strikes me that with CETAC emphasis on the Earth Sciences that involving them in the construction and maintenance of the wetlands is a natural!   Ah!, to have the physical endurance to participate!  

Okay Gringos de El Chante!  I know several of you out there who have a serious interest in keeping El Chante and the lake  clean.  Here's an opportunity not only to get involved in a SUSTAINABLE project, one that hopefully will be healthy long after we've moved on, but also to be "in the know" about the wider issue of the water entering the lake from the treatment plant.  If you reply to Todd on this I'd appreciate being copied so that I can assist in whatever small way.

Mike

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 6:06 AM, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

Mike

Rumor I have heard is not that the Joco plant will move but perhaps that the CETAC school next door to the south will move, perhaps to allow room to  expand the plant. All of this is at the 10% reliable level!  I have not probed into that area at all. The Joco plant works well based on our bacteria tests via Maria Aparicio at that plant.

El Chante plant is at capacity already and was such when the Joco president approved those 3000 houses contrary to the area zoning plan. He is as expected now an official at the federal level!.  Such treatment plant's need to process all the waste from a given day that day. There is no holding vessel. As such even if no one flushed on Mon-Thurs. each week, you are still going to see waste coming to the plant on Fri-Sat-Sun that will exceed capacity and thus need to bypass the plant or move the plant to an operation mode where the time to process the waste is less than needed and thus the end product reaching the lake is unsatisfactory. My recommendation would be to add more chlorine to the effluent so that while the waste is not fully digested the bacteria will be killed before it reaches the lake.  The Joco president with admirable insight  suggested that my idea of building a wetland at Joco be changed to El Chante so that such a wetland would biologically take over the treatment of the excess waste to come until such time as a new plant might be built, say 2-3 years, 30-60 million pesos.  I have not hear what was the result of the new Joco president's recent meeting with the housing developer who may be asked to pay for the new plant.

By the way I am looking for some interested persons who may like to assist me in developing a wetland at El Chante. I will copy some people on this message that may like this challenge or know a friend.

 

Todd 


Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com>
To: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com>
Cc: efnco...@yahoo.com, azu...@yahoo.com.mx
Subject: Re: Fix for Lake Chapala Based on Project with a Lake in India
Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 17:21:36 -0500

Todd,

Thanx for copying me on this note.  I just got back from a week in the U.S. seeing family (all are well thank goodness).  Important Note:  +/- 3 Weeks to the beginning of the Rainy Season!!!  YEAH!!

First a question:  I have heard RUMOR that the water treatment plan next to the Jocotepec Malecon is to be moved.  Although this sounds like a marvelous idea as it is such an eyesore, not to mention a nose-sore at times.  It sounded someone drastic, expensive and not in keeping with the Mexican way of doing things.  Have you heard anything along these lines?

Second and referring to your comments below:  The water treatment plant serving the El Chante area; I ask a lot a people in Joco (primarily Nationals) the same question: "How can a water treatment plant that was designed to accommodate El Chante, Las Fuentes, and other lightly built up areas possibly handle the tripling or quadrupling by all the new construction."  The answer I've received back  from the pro-construction side is "first off, the plant had far more capacity than was needed for those areas and secondly, the new construction is for weekend homes, ergo not a daily deluge of waste."   Yet and not surprisingly, no one seems to have "numbers", just opinions. 

Mike - Miguelito El Cojo

English Language Forum Serving Lake Chapala's West End

http://groups.google.com/group/jocotepeckers

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[Georgia Nucci]

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill. Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Mon, 5/24/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mike Osborn]

Georgia,

Your comment it about it "all runs downhill" has a couple of meanings in the case of the GEO construction, no?  I wonder if the term translates into Spanish well? <evil grin>

So what your saying is, "locals" actually bought the "we're sending the sewage over to SJC and we're sending the potable water necessary from SJC?"  Hmmm?  Don't remember anyone installing those massive waste water or potable water pipes between El Chante and SJC.  I also don't remember the SJC residents (especially those on the hill) screaming "we haven't got the resources to handle this!" 

One comment that really caught my eye was Todd's statement that the El Chante waste water plant was already operating at maximum before all that new construction which doubled-tripled-quadrupled (pick one) the number of toilets and showers, not to mention the increased run-off from more streets.  I have spoken with a number of "connected" locals who shared "the plant is under utilized and we have more than enough capacity to handle the new construction."  Of course none of those folks were engineers and most would have a difficult time finding their home's water cut-off valve in an emergency. Somehow a statement from a Civil Engineer with nothing to gain or lose holds a lot more credence than other local sources.  This rainy season could be real interesting.  We get to watch for flooding, waste water overflow AND the new bypass!

Miguelito

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill. Georgia Nucci

--

[Georgia Nucci]

Work on the bypass seems to have come to a standstill and nothing will prevent the dirt, mud and rocks from the steep slope cuts from filling the road once the rains stop. Work is continuing apace on the road to Guad especially on the road over the mountain at El Molino. They are doing an enormous amount of soil and rock removal there to widen the road. I fear that if work isn't substantially and correctly completed by the rainy season that route to Guadalajara will effectively be cut off by mud and rockslides as well.   And, yes, locals have been told not to worry: the water is coming from SJC and the wastewater going to SJC!! Originally a story in El Informador said that Geo, the developer, was going to enlarge the existing sewage treatment plant in the east end of El Chante: not. It's a mess.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Mon, 5/24/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

[TD Stong]

Mike

Just drove 8 hours from VA down to FL to be here 2 weeks working on properties.

Lots of angles here in regards to best moves at Joco and El Chante.

The Joco president at my last meeting a his house in early May noted an interest in extending the malecon to the south. I suggested there was enough malecon and that a wetland, a real bathing beach an a real marina would be high priority by my sense of the site. That is when he had the excellent idea of looking at the idea of a first wetland to be at El Chante instead of Joco.

I would love to have some one in your Joco group represent me with the president on these matters while I am in the USA. Email contact has been very very difficult. I do not think many Mexicans are as open to email communication as we. I need some one who speaks Spanish who can visit with Planation, Public Works and the President to discuss views of which projects may support the public better.

In turn I need a contact to help promote this move of a wetland at El Chante.

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[TD Stong]

Mike

I would like CETAC to remain as is so as to lead in Mexico in Aquaculture by making a partnership with some commercial facilities there along the lake to the south of CETAC, given that CETAC teaches aquaculture.  The challenges is in Mexico there  seems not a lot of hearing of the govrnment from the bottom up. CETAC is on federal land and thus subject to the ideas of people that may never have been in Jalisco alone Joco.

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[TD Stong]

For the seweage to go to San Juan Cosala it would need to defy gravity or be pumped. I do not think either will happen. Again the need is to have some one who can work with me to speak to Planacion and public Works about these plans. There are some good, young people in those offices and I think they well consider logic.

Todd


Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------

From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com>
To: jocote...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution
Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT)

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill.

Georgia Nucci

They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Mon, 5/24/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[TD Stong]

My understanding that the El Chante plant is already at capacity is based on (1) Luz Marie, the best plant operator I know on the lake saying that is so, and (2) that a calculation of the El Chante population with about 200 liters/person/day in water seeing about 60% go to the sewers suggests for say 2500 people that comes to 300,000 liters/day, which suggest 20,000 liters/hour with a 15 hour flow. This comes to about 5-6 liters/sec. I am in library in FL so have no calculator to do this more precise. In plant design due to peaks of waste in the 6-9 AM period and 2-5 period you need to often double the numbers. As I recall the El Chante plant is rated at 6 liters/sec.  Thus, I am pretty sure there is no way you can add 3000 homes to this plant.

As to the plant in San Juan Cosala, I know less since the feds have not made it easy for me to get in!  My recall is that the plant was upgraded about 5-10 years ago.  But, I suspect it has not the unused capacity either to take on 3000s homes if you pumped their waste eastward.  The solution is a new plant at El Chante. Economics dictate use of gravity and the least amount of pipe. 80% of waste systems is in the pipe!

 

Todd


Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com>
To: jocote...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 10:06:54 -0500

Georgia,

Your comment it about it "all runs downhill" has a couple of meanings in the case of the GEO construction, no?  I wonder if the term translates into Spanish well? <evil grin>

So what your saying is, "locals" actually bought the "we're sending the sewage over to SJC and we're sending the potable water necessary from SJC?"  Hmmm?  Don't remember anyone installing those massive waste water or potable water pipes between El Chante and SJC.  I also don't remember the SJC residents (especially those on the hill) screaming "we haven't got the resources to handle this!" 

One comment that really caught my eye was Todd's statement that the El Chante waste water plant was already operating at maximum before all that new construction which doubled-tripled-quadrupled (pick one) the number of toilets and showers, not to mention the increased run-off from more streets.  I have spoken with a number of "connected" locals who shared "the plant is under utilized and we have more than enough capacity to handle the new construction."  Of course none of those folks were engineers and most would have a difficult time finding their home's water cut-off valve in an emergency. Somehow a statement from a Civil Engineer with nothing to gain or lose holds a lot more credence than other local sources.  This rainy season could be real interesting.  We get to watch for flooding, waste water overflow AND the new bypass!

Miguelito

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill. Georgia Nucci

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[Georgia Nucci]

Todd, My comment was not based on what I perceive as reality but the "line" being told to the good people of El Chante. The have been hoodwinked about this entire project from day one. To assuage their anger "someone" planted the idea that this monstrosity is going to get its water from SJC and send its shit there. I know it's impossible. My husband used to do surveying for sewage treatment plants in the US and his office designed sewage treatment and septic systems for areas with non permeable soil.   I am just pointing out how the locals are manipulated.   I do speak Spanish fluently and I understand the engineering and biological problems, and I would be happy to serve as a traslator in such meetings. However, I am so sceptical that you would really need someone who believes that the loca administration really cares. I am not that person. It is my belief that the administration of Joco will give lip service to rational ideas, have a lot of meetings, waste a lot of time and pass the buvck to the next presidente.   The original assurance given by Geo was that they were going to upgrade and expand the present sewage treatment plant. There is space to do that, although I doubt that the size of the project can be supposrted by the available space. As I drive by the present plant it is already starting to smell bad. Geo has been underhanded from day one and they can not be trusted to even admit to what they are doing there. Tony and I went over to look the place over and reqalized that in a good, heavy rainstorm some of the houses located one block off the carretera will be flooded with mud if they don't change the grading of the streets, provide (I don't know the word in English) rejillas for the storm water and build some sort of retaining wall for the second row down of houses whose patio doors open to grade level. Even a berm would help. So, I think given the sorry state of ground soil prep and topographical engineering, I do not hold out hope for the rest of the project.   As far as extendig the malecon is concerned: these people have a very short memory. A couple of years ago the park behind the malecon was flooded for an extended period of time and they had to evacuate CETAC. This lake basin used to extend at least all the way to El Molino. At the entrance to the malecon, where the big cross is located, that was the high water level about 20 - 25 years ago. This lake is a living thing. It is not static. Ten years ago there was no lake at this end. So, closing off further egress of the natural flow is a horrible idea and your concept of a wetland (to clean and protect the lake, I assume) is rational. But wetlands don't make jobs and they do produce mosquitos and people will bitch about that.   So, there I am. As people usually say to me, "Why don't you let me know what you really think?" Wink., Wink.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Tue, 5/25/10, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

[Georgia Nucci]

The El Chante plant appears to be at capacity now. The diffiuclty in engineering a new plant is going to be the on again/ off agsain loading. Most of the purchasers of the new condo are tapatios who come here erratically and heavily at Christmas and Easter. So a treatment plant will have to cope with hadly any use during the week, higher use most weekends and incredible use (sometimes at RAncho San Jorge on holidays there are 20 - 25 people in a house! I know, I am the President of that condo association.) and this creates a surge load that the standard sewage treatment plant is not designed to handle. The only thing that has occurred to me is that they might build huge underground settling tanks and let the effluent rise and go through the treatment plans and pump the solids at a more predictanble rate. I don't know that that's ever been done, but I don't know how else you can manage the erratic load on the system. But then, I am no engineer, just a lawyer (I know, two notches down from a bank robber.) Have they considered this problem of peak loads being so very different from ordinary pueblos where there is a static poipulation?

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

From: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

[TD Stong]

Sounds like life as nomal.

Recall the road project from Joco to San Juan.  If you look at the bike path you can detect that some of the budget never made it to the project. As to the bypass, the contractor made a lot of  side money selling fill off that mountain to a number of private projects about Joco.  In the end he may have "just run out" of money for the real project.  The game is to then go back for an emergency appropriation!  Yes, I suspect quite a bit of material will wash down to who knows where come the opening of the rainy season in 10 days.

El Chante area wastwater flowing up to San Juan Cosala, that will be interesting to watch. Tell me when you see them digging a ditch for the pipe.

Todd

  

Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com>
To: jocote...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 08:20:27 -0700 (PDT)

Work on the bypass seems to have come to a standstill and nothing will prevent the dirt, mud and rocks from the steep slope cuts from filling the road once the rains stop. Work is continuing apace on the road to Guad especially on the road over the mountain at El Molino. They are doing an enormous amount of soil and rock removal there to widen the road. I fear that if work isn't substantially and correctly completed by the rainy season that route to Guadalajara will effectively be cut off by mud and rockslides as well.   And, yes, locals have been told not to worry: the water is coming from SJC and the wastewater going to SJC!! Originally a story in El Informador said that Geo, the developer, was going to enlarge the existing sewage treatment plant in the east end of El Chante: not. It's a mess.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Mon, 5/24/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 10:06 AM Georgia, Your comment it about it "all runs downhill" has a couple of meanings in the case of the GEO construction, no?  I wonder if the term translates into Spanish well? <evil grin> So what your saying is, "locals" actually bought the "we're sending the sewage over to SJC and we're sending the potable water necessary from SJC?"  Hmmm?  Don't remember anyone installing those massive waste water or potable water pipes between El Chante and SJC.  I also don't remember the SJC residents (especially those on the hill) screaming "we haven't got the resources to handle this!"  One comment that really caught my eye was Todd's statement that the El Chante waste water plant was already operating at maximum before all that new construction which doubled-tripled-quadrupled (pick one) the number of toilets and showers, not to mention the increased run-off from more streets.  I have spoken with a number of "connected" locals who shared "the plant is under utilized and we have more than enough capacity to handle the new construction."  Of course none of those folks were engineers and most would have a difficult time finding their home's water cut-off valve in an emergency. Somehow a statement from a Civil Engineer with nothing to gain or lose holds a lot more credence than other local sources.  This rainy season could be real interesting.  We get to watch for flooding, waste water overflow AND the new bypass! Miguelito On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> wrote: This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill. Georgia Nucci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "jocotepeckers" group. To post to this group, send email to jocote...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to jocotepecker...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/jocotepeckers?hl=en.

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[TD Stong]

Georgia

The key is to be persistent and strong. I have seen over a dozen good projects come out of Joco in recent years. Not all is accepted by the government and there are sad spells of extreme corruption as with the last president. But, I have reason to believe the new president Mario Chavez will have both an open mind and that he will try to do the best by the people. He and his wife are both quite interested in the community and I feel inclined to dedicate themselves  for the good of the people. They have always been quite interested in my assistance.

His staff contains a number of young, educated, capable people, a contrast to the past.

You wanted poster at the post office seems to read determined, don't mess with me, get out of the way!  You are thus perfect for cutting through the platitudes of the uncaring. May I ask you to invest just say 10 hours in the coming month in meeting with Obras Publicus and Planacion to sense what is in the mill and what is possible with things like the wetland project I would like to move with at El Chante, a project which the president says he favors?  Do understand that funds for infrastructure in Mexico are typically about 10-20% of what we see in the USA. 

You of course received the same pay as me. I feel that via this email link that we can be a team in moving things somewhat towards a best direction.  Your Spanish is of course key. Be sweet. Be nice. You can come on stronger if needed. Please give this a try. You even know the language of construction and understand the link between waste and gravity!

I need help and I think you are super.

Hopeful

Todd
 

Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com>
To: jocote...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 07:25:16 -0700 (PDT)

Todd, My comment was not based on what I perceive as reality but the "line" being told to the good people of El Chante. The have been hoodwinked about this entire project from day one. To assuage their anger "someone" planted the idea that this monstrosity is going to get its water from SJC and send its shit there. I know it's impossible. My husband used to do surveying for sewage treatment plants in the US and his office designed sewage treatment and septic systems for areas with non permeable soil.   I am just pointing out how the locals are manipulated.   I do speak Spanish fluently and I understand the engineering and biological problems, and I would be happy to serve as a traslator in such meetings. However, I am so sceptical that you would really need someone who believes that the loca administration really cares. I am not that person. It is my belief that the administration of Joco will give lip service to rational ideas, have a lot of meetings, waste a lot of time and pass the buvck to the next presidente.   The original assurance given by Geo was that they were going to upgrade and expand the present sewage treatment plant. There is space to do that, although I doubt that the size of the project can be supposrted by the available space. As I drive by the present plant it is already starting to smell bad. Geo has been underhanded from day one and they can not be trusted to even admit to what they are doing there. Tony and I went over to look the place over and reqalized that in a good, heavy rainstorm some of the houses located one block off the carretera will be flooded with mud if they don't change the grading of the streets, provide (I don't know the word in English) rejillas for the storm water and build some sort of retaining wall for the second row down of houses whose patio doors open to grade level. Even a berm would help. So, I think given the sorry state of ground soil prep and topographical engineering, I do not hold out hope for the rest of the project.   As far as extendig the malecon is concerned: these people have a very short memory. A couple of years ago the park behind the malecon was flooded for an extended period of time and they had to evacuate CETAC. This lake basin used to extend at least all the way to El Molino. At the entrance to the malecon, where the big cross is located, that was the high water level about 20 - 25 years ago. This lake is a living thing. It is not static. Ten years ago there was no lake at this end. So, closing off further egress of the natural flow is a horrible idea and your concept of a wetland (to clean and protect the lake, I assume) is rational. But wetlands don't make jobs and they do produce mosquitos and people will bitch about that.   So, there I am. As people usually say to me, "Why don't you let me know what you really think?" Wink., Wink.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Tue, 5/25/10, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

From: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

Cc: jocote...@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 4:56 PM

For the seweage to go to San Juan Cosala it would need to defy gravity or be pumped. I do not think either will happen. Again the need is to have some one who can work with me to speak to Planacion and public Works about these plans. There are some good, young people in those offices and I think they well consider logic.

Todd Todd D. Stong PhD Licensed Professional Engineer 224 West Main Street Leola, PA  17540 TEL: 877-645-5926 ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> To: jocote...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT)

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill.

Georgia Nucci

They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Mon, 5/24/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: "jocotepeckers" <Jocote...@googlegroups.com> Cc: salvador...@jalisco.gob.mx, fzuri...@yahoo.com, sergi...@yahoo.com.mx, "TD Stong" <tds...@juno.com> Date: Monday, May 24, 2010, 9:09 AM

Todd, I am forwarding this to the Jo'peckers group as we have several members who live in the El Chante area.  I am certain that either one of our group or someone they know in the El Chante area would be interested in the wetlands project.  Jo'peckers may want to read the preceding two messages to understand Todd's last message. As I said about the Joco-Malecon water treatment plant, I found it very difficult to believe they'd demolish the existing and built a "bigger - better" somewhere.  It just didn't make any sense.  I do like the concept of moving CETAC and utilizing the area for treatment plant expansion. I would think that CETAC would support the plan as it could make going to school more pleasant (smells/odors).   And speaking CETAC and water treatment;  It strikes me that with CETAC emphasis on the Earth Sciences that involving them in the construction and maintenance of the wetlands is a natural!   Ah!, to have the physical endurance to participate!   Okay Gringos de El Chante!  I know several of you out there who have a serious interest in keeping El Chante and the lake  clean.  Here's an opportunity not only to get involved in a SUSTAINABLE project, one that hopefully will be healthy long after we've moved on, but also to be "in the know" about the wider issue of the water entering the lake from the treatment plant.  If you reply to Todd on this I'd appreciate being copied so that I can assist in whatever small way.

Mike

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 6:06 AM, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

Mike Rumor I have heard is not that the Joco plant will move but perhaps that the CETAC school next door to the south will move, perhaps to allow room to  expand the plant. All of this is at the 10% reliable level!  I have not probed into that area at all. The Joco plant works well based on our bacteria tests via Maria Aparicio at that plant. El Chante plant is at capacity already and was such when the Joco president approved those 3000 houses contrary to the area zoning plan. He is as expected now an official at the federal level!.  Such treatment plant's need to process all the waste from a given day that day. There is no holding vessel. As such even if no one flushed on Mon-Thurs. each week, you are still going to see waste coming to the plant on Fri-Sat-Sun that will exceed capacity and thus need to bypass the plant or move the plant to an operation mode where the time to process the waste is less than needed and thus the end product reaching the lake is unsatisfactory. My recommendation would be to add more chlorine to the effluent so that while the waste is not fully digested the bacteria will be killed before it reaches the lake.  The Joco president with admirable insight  suggested that my idea of building a wetland at Joco be changed to El Chante so that such a wetland would biologically take over the treatment of the excess waste to come until such time as a new plant might be built, say 2-3 years, 30-60 million pesos.  I have not hear what was the result of the new Joco president's recent meeting with the housing developer who may be asked to pay for the new plant. By the way I am looking for some interested persons who may like to assist me in developing a wetland at El Chante. I will copy some people on this message that may like this challenge or know a friend.

Todd  Todd D. Stong PhD Licensed Professional Engineer 224 West Main Street Leola, PA  17540 TEL: 877-645-5926 ---------- Original Message ----------

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> To: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> Cc: efnco...@yahoo.com, azu...@yahoo.com.mx Subject: Re: Fix for Lake Chapala Based on Project with a Lake in India Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 17:21:36 -0500 Todd,

Thanx for copying me on this note.  I just got back from a week in the U.S. seeing family (all are well thank goodness).  Important Note:  +/- 3 Weeks to the beginning of the Rainy Season!!!  YEAH!! First a question:  I have heard RUMOR that the water treatment plan next to the Jocotepec Malecon is to be moved.  Although this sounds like a marvelous idea as it is such an eyesore, not to mention a nose-sore at times.  It sounded someone drastic, expensive and not in keeping with the Mexican way of doing things.  Have you heard anything along these lines? Second and referring to your comments below:  The water treatment plant serving the El Chante area; I ask a lot a people in Joco (primarily Nationals) the same question: "How can a water treatment plant that was designed to accommodate El Chante, Las Fuentes, and other lightly built up areas possibly handle the tripling or quadrupling by all the new construction."  The answer I've received back  from the pro-construction side is "first off, the plant had far more capacity than was needed for those areas and secondly, the new construction is for weekend homes, ergo not a daily deluge of waste."   Yet and not surprisingly, no one seems to have "numbers", just opinions.  Mike - Miguelito El Cojo English Language Forum Serving Lake Chapala's West End http://groups.google.com/group/jocotepeckers

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____________________________________________________________

[TD Stong]

Georgia

Excellent points on the erratic loads for any future plant.

Expect no engineers at the municipio level. The Chief, Obras Publicus is a good man, an architect from Tuxcueca.  You can discuss this issue with him and see what role he has along with planacion in the design of new plants by the folks at the state (CEA). Generally, the state assume is knows all.

Unfortunately those at the state do not have a good track record for leaving their desks to see a site on foot, seeking the lowest cost solution, seeking the lowest technology sustainable, or ignoring the influenced of a special contractor, once their boss, who now loves to construct overly expensive plants. 

Yes, some kind of surge container would make it possible to accommodate varying loads of waste from weekend residents. Let us assume as a start that the current village has a need for a 6 liter/sec plant and that is there and now at capacity.  Seek from the government the real numbers, or visit the plant and ask to speak to Luz Maria. Tell her I asked you to stop by. She is one of the best plant operators on the lake. See what ideas she has. I am confident she knows more than any of us.  If you are so inclined, then visit with Maria Aparicio at the lab for the Joco plant. Ask her for her ideas on how to handle the variable load to come on a future plant.  Assume next that there is a need for another 6 liters/sec plant capacity to accommodate 3000 more people. To assure safety and see to the future, it would be best to argue for an additional 12 liters/sec capacity in the new plant.  Having too little waste on any give day is no problem. You simply let the oxidation process bring the organics down even lower before sending the water out to the lake. A BOD (biological oxygen demand) of 30 PPM is the standard in Mexico and the USA for the water to leave a plant for the lake. So if there are days when it goes out at 10 that is great. The key is having capacity for the overload days.

I am of course looking to the proposed wetland as a safety to back up any plant that fails or is temporarily over loaded.  Such a wetland would be designed to give 10 days retention.  I can reduce BOD 60-80% in that time with naturally occurring bacteria, no electric, no chemicals.That is sufficient time for normal bacteria to consume a lot of what might get past a plant. The lake of the future needs these wetlands to compensate for the ills of bad men and lag time of good men. 

 

Todd


Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com>
To: jocote...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 07:37:26 -0700 (PDT)

The El Chante plant appears to be at capacity now. The diffiuclty in engineering a new plant is going to be the on again/ off agsain loading. Most of the purchasers of the new condo are tapatios who come here erratically and heavily at Christmas and Easter. So a treatment plant will have to cope with hadly any use during the week, higher use most weekends and incredible use (sometimes at RAncho San Jorge on holidays there are 20 - 25 people in a house! I know, I am the President of that condo association.) and this creates a surge load that the standard sewage treatment plant is not designed to handle. The only thing that has occurred to me is that they might build huge underground settling tanks and let the effluent rise and go through the treatment plans and pump the solids at a more predictanble rate. I don't know that that's ever been done, but I don't know how else you can manage the erratic load on the system. But then, I am no engineer, just a lawyer (I know, two notches down from a bank robber.) Have they considered this problem of peak loads being so very different from ordinary pueblos where there is a static poipulation?

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Tue, 5/25/10, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

From: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com Cc: jocote...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 5:08 PM

My understanding that the El Chante plant is already at capacity is based on (1) Luz Marie, the best plant operator I know on the lake saying that is so, and (2) that a calculation of the El Chante population with about 200 liters/person/day in water seeing about 60% go to the sewers suggests for say 2500 people that comes to 300,000 liters/day, which suggest 20,000 liters/hour with a 15 hour flow. This comes to about 5-6 liters/sec. I am in library in FL so have no calculator to do this more precise. In plant design due to peaks of waste in the 6-9 AM period and 2-5 period you need to often double the numbers. As I recall the El Chante plant is rated at 6 liters/sec.  Thus, I am pretty sure there is no way you can add 3000 homes to this plant. As to the plant in San Juan Cosala, I know less since the feds have not made it easy for me to get in!  My recall is that the plant was upgraded about 5-10 years ago.  But, I suspect it has not the unused capacity either to take on 3000s homes if you pumped their waste eastward.  The solution is a new plant at El Chante. Economics dictate use of gravity and the least amount of pipe. 80% of waste systems is in the pipe!

Todd Todd D. Stong PhD Licensed Professional Engineer 224 West Main Street Leola, PA  17540 TEL: 877-645-5926 ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> To: jocote...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution

Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 10:06:54 -0500 Georgia,

Your comment it about it "all runs downhill" has a couple of meanings in the case of the GEO construction, no?  I wonder if the term translates into Spanish well? <evil grin> So what your saying is, "locals" actually bought the "we're sending the sewage over to SJC and we're sending the potable water necessary from SJC?"  Hmmm?  Don't remember anyone installing those massive waste water or potable water pipes between El Chante and SJC.  I also don't remember the SJC residents (especially those on the hill) screaming "we haven't got the resources to handle this!"  One comment that really caught my eye was Todd's statement that the El Chante waste water plant was already operating at maximum before all that new construction which doubled-tripled-quadrupled (pick one) the number of toilets and showers, not to mention the increased run-off from more streets.  I have spoken with a number of "connected" locals who shared "the plant is under utilized and we have more than enough capacity to handle the new construction."  Of course none of those folks were engineers and most would have a difficult time finding their home's water cut-off valve in an emergency. Somehow a statement from a Civil Engineer with nothing to gain or lose holds a lot more credence than other local sources.  This rainy season could be real interesting.  We get to watch for flooding, waste water overflow AND the new bypass!

Miguelito

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill. Georgia Nucci

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[Georgia Nucci]

Luz Maria is, I assume, at the El Chante plant, correct? As I've said, I don't hold out much hope for the right thing to be done, and I am particularly sensitive to foreigners coming in and telling Mexicans how to run their business, without being asked. So, who is the person who represents your input at this time, and who sought it? I'm not opposed to your ideas. Frankly, I am horrified at this development in El Chante. But I feel strongly that there needs to be a local leader from the pueblo who cares and represents something like the will of the people here. Is there such a contact person? Perhaps I just don't understand the process that has led you to this point.   Next week is iffy, I am having eye surgery ... again! Cheryl Osborn may have to share her dog with me.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

[Georgia Nucci]

OK. I'd be glad to help. Just let me get this eye surgery over, and maybe I'll be back on my feet shortly ... assuming I can see them. I will be out of country from June 14 to June 23. It would be helpful if you or whoever has been talking to the authorities got in touch with them to explain thqt I did not just jump out of the woodwork to tell them what to do. I am still serving as president of a condominium, and I do occasionally like to go out an play. I am never availanble before noon, since my trainer is here in the morning.   My wanted poster overstates my abilities. Mexico is a very masculine oriented country. One of the charming gentlemen at the condo insisted a man be present when we discussed a new automatic gate opener ... duh. So, I don't really know how much weight my opinion will carry especially given my lack of credentials. I could drag my poor benighted husband along. He speaks Italian and French and his Spanish is quite colorful. We have a vested interest in what happens here and if I thought anyone really cared I would walk into Joco on my knees (Virgin of Guadalupe style) to get someone to acknowledge that shit flows downhill and that they are prejudicing this entire end of the lake and the plusvalia (forgot this word in English) of our homes.   So, I would need for you, or whoever you are working with, to provide proper introductions to whomever you think I should meet with. And how do you say "wetlands" in Spanish? The concept is a bit alien here. Most people would say miasma and think it is a bad, smelly place.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

[Mike Osborn]

Georgia,

I'd be willing to assist you if you'd like to give this a shot.  The lame and the blind, what a team!!  Although I don't have a vested interest (plusvalia = resale value?), I do have a community interest.  I'd be happy to run interference until you are available, get the key players names, start a email dialog, send out copies of Robert's Rules of Order - Reglas de Orden (Revisadas) de Robert, set up an agenda for a first meeting, etc.  

I'll write you off Jo'peckers with some ideas.  Sure would be nice to find someone else in El Chante, yes?  

Mike O.

[Georgia Nucci]

OK. It's a deal. We should make an interesting team. Plusvalia means increasing the equity value and maintaining the value of your real estate investments. One word that carries a lot of meaning.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Thu, 5/27/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

--

[Georgia Nucci]

I don't go in for the next surgery until Friday evening (this has to be done at night because I can't be exposed to daylight for three days minimum after the surgery). So, Wed, Thurs, or Fri at 12 would be good for me if you want to do this next week. I leave it in your able hands.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 11:08 PM

--

[Mike Osborn]

GN,

I have written to Todd for a list of key players, their title, email, phone and a few lines on who they are and where he sees their politics.  Once that'd done I rough out a introduction email and send it to you for revision and translation.  

Right now I've got to get back to other projects.  I'm really busy with Cheryl being up north.  I've got lots to get done before she returns, especially anything that involves knocking down walls and creating dust and escombro.  

Hasta pronto,  Mike

[Georgia Nucci]

I'm sure that will thrill Cheryl beyond all belief! Has she paired with a dog yet? Tell all. She may have to share him with me!! WE are a motley crew, aren't we?

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Fri, 5/28/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

--

[Mike Osborn]

Georgia, want me to see if Cheryl can pick you up a seminuevo Guide Dog while she's up north (this is a joke folks, it don't work that way.)

Yes Cheryl has been issued Xina and she seems to have fallen in love with him.  BTW, I still am having a problem with "Xina" being a macho.  It's probably because of the movie "Xena: Warrior Princess."  Okay, so I like that kind of move.  I also like cartoons and Japanese Anime. <grin>

In retrospect I find it interesting that we never saw that same bonding with Inga.  She was more like a tool and less like a partner.  Don't know if I shared it before, but besides destroying a dozen pair of shoes and other objects the right size for her mouth, Inga also would attempt to hide when Cheryl got out her harness.  When Cheryl would get her cornered Inga would wiggle to stay out of it.  This is extraordinarily un-Guide Dog.  A normal Guide Dog would go nutz if they saw their master picking up the leash and harness.  "OH GOODY-GOODY, WE GET TO GO SOMEWHERE!!!"  Not sure Inga's going to end up as more than a pet.

Nos vemos,

Mike

[Georgia Nucci]

Poor Xina. You are going to give him a sexual identity crisis!! Think of him as a Warrior Prince and all will be well. I'm so happy that Cheryl and whats-his-name are bonding. That is great. I hope he is all Golden Retriever  - just my preferenvce.   Although I have to say that "Little Shit" (my name for the circus dog we adopted us) is becoming endearing. His major bad habits, though, are jumping and scratching people in excitement and (2) rearranging household items: duster ends up on the stairs, Tony's shoes under the avocado tree (3) socks .. anywhere (4) towels and toilet paper rearranged big time. On the other hand, he is not demanding and just wants to be near people. He has given up trying to be the Alpha dog ... this was a huge error on his part because now the two Golden Retrievers are afraid to play with him in games like tug of war. And he REALLY wants to play. Well, it's his own fault .....Inga an Little Shit (aka Chico) would have made good buddies, I think.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Fri, 5/28/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

[Mike Osborn]

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Although I have to say that "Little Shit" (my name for the circus dog we adopted us) is becoming endearing. His major bad habits, though, are jumping and scratching people in excitement and (2) rearranging household items: duster ends up on the stairs, Tony's shoes under the avocado tree (3) socks .. anywhere (4) towels and toilet paper rearranged big time.

Georgia Nucci

Your description of "Little Shit" sounded to me like you were describing Inga!, right down to the shoes under the aguacate tree!! The jumping on people was the first problem that we identified with Inga and this is something a Guide Dog should never do (on or off leash.)  

I was in the middle of writing a note to Cheryl when this came through.  Along with double checking the sex, I'm also going to get the breed.  Blond and fuzzy wasn't much of a description.

[Georgia Nucci]

Oh, I met Inga. I think they went to the same circus school. Little Shit can jump high fences without even a running start as well as his other attributes. He thinks it's funny.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Fri, 5/28/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

[TD Stong]

Georgia

You sound so wanted!

Please give it a 10 hour run.

Yes, I will link you to the people I know.

My challenge is that the Mexicans who have been identified to aid me in constant contact with the presidents are ALL quite shy about us of email. When you get past the eye work let's pick up on this. I am in FL for another week working on houses here and will then go on to Pennsylvania to do the same. I hope someday to sell off these places.

Todd 

Todd D. Stong PhD
Licensed Professional Engineer
224 West Main Street
Leola, PA  17540
TEL: 877-645-5926

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com>
To: jocote...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution
Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:06:11 -0700 (PDT)

OK. I'd be glad to help. Just let me get this eye surgery over, and maybe I'll be back on my feet shortly ... assuming I can see them. I will be out of country from June 14 to June 23. It would be helpful if you or whoever has been talking to the authorities got in touch with them to explain thqt I did not just jump out of the woodwork to tell them what to do. I am still serving as president of a condominium, and I do occasionally like to go out an play. I am never availanble before noon, since my trainer is here in the morning.   My wanted poster overstates my abilities. Mexico is a very masculine oriented country. One of the charming gentlemen at the condo insisted a man be present when we discussed a new automatic gate opener ... duh. So, I don't really know how much weight my opinion will carry especially given my lack of credentials. I could drag my poor benighted husband along. He speaks Italian and French and his Spanish is quite colorful. We have a vested interest in what happens here and if I thought anyone really cared I would walk into Joco on my knees (Virgin of Guadalupe style) to get someone to acknowledge that shit flows downhill and that they are prejudicing this entire end of the lake and the plusvalia (forgot this word in English) of our homes.   So, I would need for you, or whoever you are working with, to provide proper introductions to whomever you think I should meet with. And how do you say "wetlands" in Spanish? The concept is a bit alien here. Most people would say miasma and think it is a bad, smelly place.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Thu, 5/27/10, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

From: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?

--- On Tue, 5/25/10, TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> wrote:

From: TD Stong <tds...@juno.com> Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution To: jocote...@googlegroups.com

Cc: jocote...@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 4:56 PM

For the seweage to go to San Juan Cosala it would need to defy gravity or be pumped. I do not think either will happen. Again the need is to have some one who can work with me to speak to Planacion and public Works about these plans. There are some good, young people in those offices and I think they well consider logic. Todd Todd D. Stong PhD Licensed Professional Engineer 224 West Main Street Leola, PA  17540 TEL: 877-645-5926 ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Georgia Nucci <geon...@yahoo.com> To: jocote...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [jocotepeckers] Re: El Chante Wastewater Treatment Solution Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT)

This is all such BS. I don't mean Mr. Stong's plans, I mean the "information" being disseminated by the local administration in Joco. Now they are telling the populave not to worry because the sewage from the monster development is going to SAn Juan Cosala as if that  plant could handle the problem. They are also telling people that their water is also coming from SJC. Now, when Rancho San Jorge was developed the constructora / developer was REQUIRED beforehand to improve the infrastructure of the sawage dispoisal system which he did. This solved the problem many folks in the area on Ribera del Lago had of sewage backing up into their houses during heavy rainstorms. He was also required to improve the road which runs along the development and to donate land to the village.   None of that happened with the new development and the town will suffer because of that and all the lies and rumos being spread about ho9w the problem is being handled. I'd water that the sawage is going where it always flows: downhill.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it? --- On Mon, 5/24/10, Mike Osborn <mike....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Georgia Nucci]

Hey, when you figure that out let me know. I have a house in Polk County, in Wesley Chapel that I want to sell next summer! My son is presently occupying it, but when he finally graduates from college (after a 4 year stint in the Marines) out he goes and on the market it goes.   I am not sure what the results of htis surgery will be. I do know it will leave me quite blind for a couple of weeks. Then I go to the US for a couple of days and then I'll be back hopefully with some functional vision.

Georgia Nucci They are not making any more todays. Today is the only day you've got for sure .... what are you going to do with it?