Fw: Charap
Andy Rosen
Warmly,
I’m copying several Charap descendants hoping they can add to my commentary:
From your earlier email:
“We later came to the conclusion that we must be of Jewish blood as all the other Charaps we contacted were Jewish ! In about 2005 my mother was contacted by some solicitors in England regarding an inheritance and when they sent us some info we came to the conclusion that part of our family history had been carefully hidden.”
Welcome to the tribe! I am confused by your lineage’s migrations but will try to follow your story line.
I’m not an expert on why Jews in the 20th century “hide” their religion, especially in the UK or Argentina, but I’m guessing it had more to do with assimilation and less by anti-Semitism. As you mention below, I gather that your Charap Grandfather migrated from Eastern Europe to the UK? So, your ancestors made this decision at the time they were in the UK and became Anglican? Most likely, your grandfather, Meyer “Martin” Charap or his father married a woman of Anglican faith.
This is not out of the realm of reality that Jews voluntarily convert “out”, likewise, many non-Jews convert into the Jewish faith, popularly known as Jews-by-choice. A main reason for conversion is because the non-Jewish spouse chooses Judaism because he/she wants to raise their children as Jews. Likewise, your grandfather chose to be Anglican for the same reason.
“I use my mother's surname that's why I am a Charap?”
Using mother’s surnames was a very common practice in Yiddish Europe. Why did you take her name?
“My mother is Dorothy Elizabeth Charap, grandfater Meyer Charap, great-grandfather (born in Brody) was Abraham (later Jacques) Charap who married Sarah Frankel in the Great Synagogue of East London (I think that was the name) around 1895.”
Very interesting that it appears your Ggrandfather, Abraham changed his name to “Jacques”. I have seen records of other Jews of Eastern Europe studying in the “intellectual and highly cultured France” in the latter part of the 19th century – early 20th, so perhaps he wanted to give himself a “cool” name of the times?
Since he married “Sarah Frankel in the Great Synagogue of East London”, it appears he was still a practicing Jew. Your mother Dorothy Elizabeth Charap, had the given and middle names of a gentile, or Christian.
My deceased father Joel was born in 1908 en a small village in eastern Galitzia called Iszerna (or something similar) in the province of Tarnopol. In the past it was a Polish area but know this area pertains to Ukraine. In the year 1938 he emigrated to Argentina.
There’s the tipoff- What you are calling Iszerna is actually Ozerna or Jezierna and we have network of descendants from this Shtetl! Together we work to preserve the memory of this community.
Tarnopol was the Polish name for Ternopil , now politically in the Ukraine. One of our group members is the Freda Charap you mentioned and can be emailed at fch...@hotmail.com. Two other members of our community, Suri Greenberg and Talila Friedman are officially beginning to translate ourYizkor book at http://www.jewishgen.org/Yizkor/ozerna/Ozerna.html. I’ll send you their email separately.
“Here in Israel our surname is also not common, and all of us who exist proceed from the same region in the Ukraine and it would appear we all descend from the same “father”. A “wise” rabbi that lived in the area over two centuries ago. Our surname is of Hebrew origin (it is pronounced “Jarap”)”
It would not surprise me that Jarap and Harap (with a chet sound) and the Americanized Charap are of similar roots. Tali Friedman’s father called himself Harap.
Letters are the initials (in hebrew) for “Jajamei Rabanei Polin” that translated would be “Wise Polish Rabbis”.”
This is one of many different acronymic interpretations which does not conflict with the Charap name origination theory that our ancestors followed the way of a Chassidic rabbi, as Chasidim was a very prevalent movement in the 18th century Tarnopol area.
It would appear we all descend from the same “father”. A “wise” rabbi
You
are probably referring to the Great Rev
Schlemele (common name,
Shlomo or Solomon). His story in English, is attached, was
translated for me by a local elderly person that spoke Yiddish.
I’m copying the rest of the group for their commentary (we may have different interpretations of some topics) and to welcome you!
Warmly,
Andy
"Avi" Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
520-237-6470
aro...@cox.net
Researching the shtetl of Jezierna and surnames: CHARAP, TEICHOLZ, NAGELBERG, BARAD, JAFFE, EIDEL, HIRSCHORN, STEINKRITZ, ROSENBLATT, YEAGER
----- Original Message -----From: Harry J. CharapTo: Andy RosenCc: Zen Eidel ; Suri GreenbergSent: Monday, May 27, 2013 9:45 AMSubject: RE: Charap
Hello Andy !
Many thanks for your e-mail, most interesting. Ruben Bien-Willner also from Buenos Aires. What a coincidence you finding someone from Buenos Aires right there where you live.
My grandfather Meyer “Martin” Charap passed away December 1979 and we knew practically nothing about his ancestors even less that they were Jewish ! Some years later I wrote to my great–uncle Mervyn Charap and he sent me a handwritten family tree. From some of the names it looked as if there was Jewish blood in the family and I jokingly wrote back something about “Don’t tell me we are Jewish” and he replied something like “life has its surprises”, Anyhow, we later came to the conclusion that we must be of Jewish blood as all the other Charaps we contacted we Jewish ! In about 2005 my mother was contacted by some solicitors in England regarding an inheritance and when they sent us some info we came to the conclusion that part of our family history hab been carefully hidden. Not surprising when we consider that being Jewish 120/70 years ago was somewhat dangerous and many Christians frowned upon Jews. I am Anglican but I am very proud of my Jewish blood. My wife has a first cousin who has “shacked-up” with a Jewish man and when they visit us we have long chats about traditions and religion.
Regarding Anna Charap Jaffe I’ll have to check my papers. I did receive a couple of replies and even a Family Tree from someone in the USA so maybe Anna did reply. I have no idea where those papers are but I know I have them somewhere. If I find them I´ll scan them and send them to you.
From what I have been able to find out there are/were at least six different “Charaps” in Argentina:
- Isaya Charap, a man who appears as living in Villaguay, Entre Rios Province, in 1895.
- Rosa Charap, a lady of 78 who lived or lives in Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires Province.
- Freda Charap, a lady who I think you are in contact with.
- Joel Charap, who passed away in Israel.
- Rosa Charap, a lady of 78 who lived or lives in Mar del Plata, Buenos Aires Province.
- The husband of the following person buried in the La Tablada Jewish Cemetery of Buenos Aires:
MARTHA LOEFLER
Cemetery:
TABLADA
Birth Date:
20/11/1911
Death Date:
27/08/1993
Block: D | Section: 25 | Tombstone: 20
- The descendents of Meyer “Martin Charap”.
I am in contact with Silvio, a son of Joel mentioned above. Here goes a translation of an e-mail sent to me by Silvio in 2009:
“You are right, our surname is not a common one. All the “Charaps” of the world are related somehow. I am Argentine (born in 1944) but since 1964 I live in Israel.
My deceased father Joel was born in 1908 en a small village in eastern Galitzia called Iszerna (or something similar) in the province of Tarnopol. In the past it was a Polish area but know this area pertains to Ukraine. In the year 1938 he emigrated to Argentina. And there we lived until we came to Israel.
Here in Israel our surname is also not common, and all of us who exist proceed from the same region in the Ukraine and it would appear we all descend from the same “father”. A “wise” rabbi that lived in the area over two centuries ago. Our surname is of Hebrew origin (it is pronounced “Jarap”) and the letters are the initials (in hebrew) for “Jajamei Rabanei Polin” that translated would be “Wise Polish Rabbis”.”
What was written by Silvio tallies with something my great-uncle wrote about the surname Charap meaning “He who knows/He who is wise”.
I keep meaning to write to the Rosa Charap I mention above but have not yet done so. Will do and let you have her reply, if she does answer.
DNA ? Sounds very FBI or CIA sort of thing but yes, I am sure it would identify if one Charap branch is related or not.
Kind regards,
Harry
From: aro...@cox.net
To: harry_...@hotmail.com
CC: zenz...@gmail.com; sur...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Charap
Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 15:19:05 -0700
Harry:
Yes I live in Tucson, Arizona. I settled here 16 years ago and grew up in New York city, where all my traceable Charap came over. It was a cousins helping cousins to get into the US and get them jobs. Coincidentally, I came upon another Jezierna descendant in Tucson, Ruben Bien-Willner, and he grew up in Buenos Aires, Argentina!
I thought it wonderful that you, as an 18 YO reached out to our Charaps in the US! Did you ever receive a response from my cousin Anna Charap Jaffee? If you did and you still have the response, I would love it if you can scan it and send it my way.
I do not believe we are blood relations for the reasons I point out below and attached. Bear in mind that Jezierna was a very small Shetyl and I identified three unrelated families by examining the male Charap surnames of each.
Our Charaps kept very good records of our lineage dating back to roughly 1815 and no given names of the other families exists in the other Charap families. Also, we have no records (oral or written) of any immigrating Charap relative moving to Argentina or any other country in the world that accepted Ashkenazic Jews.
As you said, your grandfather was named Abraham Charap and we have two Abraham Charap in our records, the first being my Ggrandfather who perished in the Shoah. My GGgrandfather’s bother was also named Abraham, and while we have no records of him, we do have documentation of his three of his known childres, and they came to the US at the turn of the 20th century, see attached.
Who knows, perhaps we link in the pre-19th century?
The only way where you might find a genetic match you be contributing DNA to the Family Tree DNA - Genetic Genealogy site, http://www.familytreedna.com/. Hopefully, you have a Charap relative that is a male descendant of a male Charap. Since you took your mother, Dorothy Elizabeth Charap’s surname, if you tested, them your father’s YDNA would be traced. So you’d need to locate a YDNA- or male Charap descendant of yours.
These tests start at $200 USD so it is not cheap.
Anytime I can assist you, let me know!
Warmly,
Andy "Avi" Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
520-237-6470
aro...@cox.net
Researching the shtetl of Jezierna and surnames: CHARAP, TEICHOLZ, NAGELBERG, BARAD, JAFFE, EIDEL, HIRSCHORN, STEINKRITZ, ROSENBLATT, YEAGER
----- Original Message -----From: Harry J. CharapTo: aro...@cox.netSent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 9:54 AMSubject: CharapDear Andy,Good afternoon. Many thanks for your e-mail. You are from Tucson, correct ?I use my mother's surname that's why I am a Charap. My mother is Dorothy Elizabeth Charap, grandfater Meyer Charap, great-grandfather (born in Brody) was Abraham (later Jacques) Charap who married Sarah Frankel in the Great Synagogue of East London (I think that was the name) around 1895. I'll have to search through some papers at home to be able to give you more info.Maria Silvana Goso is my 2nd (present) wife. She is RC, I am Anglican.Will get back to you with more info soonest.Kind regards,Harry21/05/2013PhotosHello Harry, I’m one of several branches of the Charaps that fled the Ternopil region (now eastern Ukraine) in the latter part of the 19th to early 20th century. Like most Jews of ashkenazic descent,
From: Andy Rosen (aro...@cox.net)You moved this message to its current location. Sent: 21 May 2013 00:06:26 To: harry_...@hotmail.com; msg...@hotmail.com Cc: Suri Greenberg (sur...@gmail.com); Zen Eidel (zenz...@gmail.com) Hello Harry,
I’m one of several branches of the Charaps that fled the Ternopil region (now eastern Ukraine) in the latter part of the 19th to early 20th century. Like most Jews of ashkenazic descent, we migrated throughout the world but primarily the US, Israel (then Palestine), Argentina, England and Canada.
In case you are wondering if we are blood related, I have a strong sense that your Charaps and my Charaps are not blood-related, but to be sure, please tell me a bit about your Charap ancestry by giving me these family member’s given names:
· Your father’s name and the names of his siblings
· Your grandfather’s name and the names of his siblings
· Your great grandfather’s name and the names of his siblings
I have a list of other Charap surnames –also not blood related- I might be able to link you with.
Re: The 1984 letter: Here is attached. Who is or was Maria Silvana Goso?
Warmly,
Andy "Avi" Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
520-237-6470
aro...@cox.net
Researching the shtetl of Jezierna and surnames: CHARAP, TEICHOLZ, NAGELBERG, BARAD, JAFFE, EIDEL, HIRSCHORN, STEINKRITZ, ROSENBLATT, YEAGER
Suri:Do you have a copy of the letter? I am forwarding this email thread to Andy Rosen who might be able to answer if Harry Charap is related or possibly email him and ask for his background.Zen
On May 20, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Suri Greenberg <su...@gmail.com> wrote:
I misunderstood who sent it. it went the the group, signed by you. But it is from msg - Maria Silvana Goso. Who is she?Also, how is Harry Charap related? Is he still alive?Suri----- Original Message -----From:msg...@hotmail.comSent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:12 PMSubject: Re: Another JeziernianStill alive here in Argentina. My e-mail: harry_...@hotmail.com
On Friday, October 30, 2009 5:24:25 PM UTC-3, dor...@gmail.com wrote:To All:
I found this letter, sent to me in 1984 by Anna (nee Charap) Jaffe,
and thought it should be dispersed to the Jezierna diaspora with the
hope that it leads to further connections. This gentleman is now 44
years old and may be still reside in Argentina.
Zen Eidel
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Freda
- Joel Charap – born in Jezierna was Silvio Charap’s father. This is the Silvio we know who lives in Israel and is NOT as far as we know, related to Harry. As in his mail, Harry copies Silvio’s mail, at a quick glance, ths makes matters confusing.
- I am of course the Freda Charap mentioned by Harry and the Martha Löiffler mentioned by him is my mother. I don’t know how he came across this, he must have researched the Jewish Tablada Cementry where many of my mother’s family are buried. My father however died and is buried in London England.
- Harry says that his great grand father Abraham was born in Brody and married in London in circa 1895 so I still don’t see the Jezierna connection as the descendants also seem to have been English.
- By the way, now, who is Ana Charap Jaffe?
Andy Rosen
Freda:
Yes, this is a confusing correspondence. For the record and alleviate any confusion, I'm clarifying some points you stated below:
Harry copies Silvio’s mail (about this Father, Joel), at a quick glance, this makes matters confusing.
Harry never stated he had a father named Joel. He only stated he only said he corresponded with Sylvio who he acknowledged was Joel’s son]. This is mentioned this below a 2009 correspondence with him. I would ask Harry to make is fonts larger in the future as most of us are older and have poor eyesight!
“That he prefers to use his mother’s maiden name and his actual religion is irrelevant”- This matters a lot for genealogists like me. Taking mother’s surnames is uncommon today but was a regular practice in Jewish tradition. This would beg the question to Harry why he chose his mother’s maiden name or was it given to him.
You stated “I still don’t see the Jezierna connection as the descendants also seem to have been English. You are correct. In my view, the fact that Harry is seeking his Jewish roots as a Gentile is more the issue for him than what shtetl his ancestors came. Supplying him with as much information about his roots I feel obligated to do.
Additionally, as I’ve postulated in the past, the location of the majority of Charaps (including those names phonetically matching) were clustered in or around Tarnopol, Poland, the major city only a few miles away from Jezierna (see attached data from JRI Poland’s new function, “Surname Distribution Mapper”). Brody, FYI, is about 90 miles from Tarnopol.
“As we all know, in central Europe, the CH was pronounced “JA” or “HA”
Therefore when these families immigrated to Argentina without any documents and were asked their names, they were inscribed as Jarap or Jaraf”. I performed a JewishGen Family Finder Search and there were no Jaraps listed. I accept your comment that Charaps in Argentina went or go by Jarap. The Charap name and sound continues to morph over time. It is my understanding that the English sound “J” does not exist in any Eastern European, Yiddish, German or traditional Hebrew languages and the English sounding “J” sounds like our letter “Y”.
Ana Charap Jaffe- Anna one of our Charap clan’s matriarchs of the first generation of immigrants. She and her husband Ben Jaffe founded Camp Reena (for girls) and Mohegan (for boys). Both my mother, Zen Eidell and a slew of other cousins attended these camps. Harry claims he found Anna in a US phone book directory in the 1980’s. Since had to be listed as Anna Jaffe, I have no idea about how he could trace her as a Charap, nevertheless, his letter is authentic.
I hope this addresses any issues you might have. Please, Freda or anyone in our group, please comment if you disagree (BE RESPECTFUL IN YOUR COMMENTS, PLEASE)
Warmly,
Andy “Avi” Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
----- Original Message -----From: Andy RosenTo: Andy Rosen ; Andy RosenSent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 10:55 PMSubject: Re: CharapFreda:
Harry stated he had a father named Joel. He only stated he only said he corresponded with Sylvio and mentioned a 2009 correspondence with him.
“That he prefers to use his mother’s maiden name and his actual religion is irrelevant”- This matters a lot for genealogists. Taking mother’s surnames is uncommon today but was a regular practice in Jewish tradition.
You stated “I still don’t see the Jezierna connection as the descendants also seem to have been English.” Please note in his original email below, “My deceased father Joel was born in 1908 en a small village in eastern Galitzia called Iszerna”
“As we all know, in central Europe, the CH was pronounced “JA” or “HA”
therefore when these families immigrated to Argentina without any documents and were asked their names, they were inscribed as Jarap or Jaraf”
I performed a JewishGen Family Finder Search and there were no Jaraps listed. I accept your comment that Charaps in Argentina went or go by Jarap. We do agree that the Charap name continues to morph over time. It is my understanding that the English sound “J”. Yet is is a fac
Also, after doing some cursory research, the Eastern European “J” sounds like our letter “Y”.
Ana Charap Jaffe- Anna one of our Charap clan’s matriarchs of the first generation if immigrants. She and her husband Ben Jaffe founded Camp Reena (for girls) and Mohegan (for boys). Both my mother, Zen Eidell and a slew of other cousins attended these camps. Harry claims he found her name in a US phone book directory, Since she was listed as Anna Jaffe, I have no idea about how he could trace her as a Charap, nevertheless, his letter is authentic.
If you are still confused, don’t fret, I am as confused as you about Harry, however is the real deal!
Warmly,
Andy “Avi” Rosen
.
Harry J. Charap
Hello Freda / Andy !
It looks as if we are all somewhat confused. Sorry, I appear to be who created the confusion. Mi comments in green ink within pertinent e-mails.
Kind regards,
Harry
From: aro...@cox.net
To: fch...@hotmail.com
CC: Jezi...@googlegroups.com; harry_...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Charap
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2013 18:54:03 -0700
Freda:
Yes, this is a confusing correspondence. For the record and alleviate any confusion, I'm clarifying some points you stated below:
Harry copies Silvio’s mail (about this Father, Joel), at a quick glance, this makes matters confusing. Silvio’s father is Joel.
Harry never stated he had a father named Joel. He only stated he only said he corresponded with Sylvio who he acknowledged was Joel’s son]. This is mentioned this below a 2009 correspondence with him. I would ask Harry to make is fonts larger in the future as most of us are older and have poor eyesight! Will use font size 14.
“That he prefers to use his mother’s maiden name and his actual religion is irrelevant”- This matters a lot for genealogists like me. Taking mother’s surnames is uncommon today but was a regular practice in Jewish tradition. This would beg the question to Harry why he chose his mother’s maiden name or was it given to him. I am registered with my mother surname for the simple reason she never married my father and I am not recognised by him.
You stated “I still don’t see the Jezierna connection as the descendants also seem to have been English. You are correct. In my view, the fact that Harry is seeking his Jewish roots as a Gentile is more the issue for him than what shtetl his ancestors came. Supplying him with as much information about his roots I feel obligated to do. Thanks Andy ! I find all what you have told me very interesting.
Additionally, as I’ve postulated in the past, the location of the majority of Charaps (including those names phonetically matching) were clustered in or around Tarnopol, Poland, the major city only a few miles away from Jezierna (see attached data from JRI Poland’s new function, “Surname Distribution Mapper”). Brody, FYI, is about 90 miles from Tarnopol. 90 miles is not so far away, although a hundred and odd years ago 90 miles was a longish distance to travel.
“As we all know, in central Europe, the CH was pronounced “JA” or “HA”
Therefore when these families immigrated to Argentina without any documents and were asked their names, they were inscribed as Jarap or Jaraf”. I performed a JewishGen Family Finder Search and there were no Jaraps listed. I accept your comment that Charaps in Argentina went or go by Jarap. The Charap name and sound continues to morph over time. It is my understanding that the English sound “J” does not exist in any Eastern European, Yiddish, German or traditional Hebrew languages and the English sounding “J” sounds like our letter “Y”. Have checked a data-base and there is at this moment no person with the surname Jarap in Argentina. There are also no Jaraps listed in the 1895 National Census of Argentina.
Ana Charap Jaffe- Anna one of our Charap clan’s matriarchs of the first generation of immigrants. She and her husband Ben Jaffe founded Camp Reena (for girls) and Mohegan (for boys). Both my mother, Zen Eidell and a slew of other cousins attended these camps. Harry claims he found Anna in a US phone book directory in the 1980’s. Since had to be listed as Anna Jaffe, I have no idea about how he could trace her as a Charap, nevertheless, his letter is authentic. I hope this addresses any issues you might have. Please, Freda or anyone in our group, please comment if you disagree (BE RESPECTFUL IN YOUR COMMENTS, PLEASE)
Warmly,
Andy “Avi” Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
----- Original Message -----
From:Andy Rosen
To: Andy Rosen ; Andy Rosen
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: Charap
Freda:
Harry stated he had a father named Joel. He only stated he only said he corresponded with Sylvio and mentioned a 2009 correspondence with him. Correct Andy !
“That he prefers to use his mother’s maiden name and his actual religion is irrelevant”- This matters a lot for genealogists. Taking mother’s surnames is uncommon today but was a regular practice in Jewish tradition. Replied above.
You stated “I still don’t see the Jezierna connection as the descendants also seem to have been English.” Please note in his original email below, “My deceased father Joel was born in 1908 en a small village in eastern Galitzia called Iszerna”
“As we all know, in central Europe, the CH was pronounced “JA” or “HA”
therefore when these families immigrated to Argentina without any documents and were asked their names, they were inscribed as Jarap or Jaraf” I have located a 41 year old Jaraf in Argentina.
I performed a JewishGen Family Finder Search and there were no Jaraps listed. I accept your comment that Charaps in Argentina went or go by Jarap. We do agree that the Charap name continues to morph over time. It is my understanding that the English sound “J”. Yet is is a fac
Also, after doing some cursory research, the Eastern European “J” sounds like our letter “Y”.
Ana Charap Jaffe- Anna one of our Charap clan’s matriarchs of the first generation if immigrants. She and her husband Ben Jaffe founded Camp Reena (for girls) and Mohegan (for boys). Both my mother, Zen Eidell and a slew of other cousins attended these camps. Harry claims he found her name in a US phone book directory, Since she was listed as Anna Jaffe, I have no idea about how he could trace her as a Charap, nevertheless, his letter is authentic.
If you are still confused, don’t fret, I am as confused as you about Harry, however is the real deal!
Warmly,
Andy “Avi” Rosen
.
----- Original Message -----
From:Freda
Cc: Harry J. Charap
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2013 2:43 PM
Subject: Charap
Hi Andy,
Please let me clarify a few points I believe there is a mix up:
· Joel Charap – born in Jezierna was Silvio Charap’s father. This is the Silvio we know who lives in Israel and is NOT as far as we know, related to Harry. As in his mail, Harry copies Silvio’s mail, at a quick glance, ths makes matters confusing. Correct Freda !
As a curiosity, I met Silvio’s father many years ago, as Silvio’s sister Felisa (deceased) and I went to the same high school. Some years after graduating, Felisa’s father and I requested copies of our certificates and were given the wrong ones by mistake so we communicated and Joel told me he had no relationship to my father however, also told me that in addition to the few Charaps in Argentina, there were a large amount of Jarap and Jaraf who were all probably Charaps. As we all know, in central Europe, the CH was pronounced “JA” or “HA” Very interesting. What a coincidence about the school. At one moment you also went to the same school as my mother, Dorothy Elizabeth Charap.
therefore when these families immigrated to Argentina without any documents and were asked their names, they were inscribed as Jarap or Jaraf.
· I am of course the Freda Charap mentioned by Harry and the Martha Löiffler mentioned by him is my mother. I don’t know how he came across this, he must have researched the Jewish Tablada Cementry where many of my mother’s family are buried. My father however died and is buried in London England. I came across your mother by Googling “Charap Argentina” and a wensite with names of people buried in Jewish cemeteries in Argentina appeared.
· Harry says that his great grand father Abraham was born in Brody and married in London in circa 1895 so I still don’t see the Jezierna connection as the descendants also seem to have been English. I never implied that my Charap ancestors had anything to do with Jezierna.
That he prefers to use his mother’s maiden name and his actual religion is irrelevant.
At least now we know who Maria Silvana Grosso is (Harry’s second wife) Quite correct, religion is irrelevant, we are all the same. Yes, Silvana is my 2nd wife.
· By the way, now, who is Ana Charap Jaffe?
I’m still confused
Affectionately
Freda
From: Andy Rosen
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:47 AM
Cc: Harry J. Charap
Subject: Fw: Charap
I lost track and did not know our group still existed until now!
Warmly,
Andy
"Avi" Rosen
Tucson, Arizona
520-237-6470
aro...@cox.net
Researching the shtetl of Jezierna and surnames: CHARAP, TEICHOLZ, NAGELBERG, BARAD, JAFFE, EIDEL, HIRSCHORN, STEINKRITZ, ROSENBLATT, YEAGER
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Rosen
To: Harry J. Charap
Cc: Freda Charap ; talila friedman ; Suri Greenberg ; Zen Eidel
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: Charap
I’m copying several Charap descendants hoping they can add to my commentary:
From your earlier email:
“We later came to the conclusion that we must be of Jewish blood as all the other Charaps we contacted were Jewish ! In about 2005 my mother was contacted by some solicitors in England regarding an inheritance and when they sent us some info we came to the conclusion that part of our family history had been carefully hidden.”
Welcome to the tribe! Thanks ! I am confused by your lineage’s migrations but will try to follow your story line.
I’m not an expert on why Jews in the 20th century “hide” their religion, especially in the UK or Argentina, but I’m guessing it had more to do with assimilation and less by anti-Semitism. As you mention below, I gather that your Charap Grandfather migrated from Eastern Europe to the UK? Yes, as far as I know Abraham Charap and his future wife Sarah Frankel, maybe together or separately, migrated to the UK about 1890/1895. So, your ancestors made this decision at the time they were in the UK and became Anglican? Abrahan and Sarah were married in the Great East London Synagogue but apparently did not give much importance to religion. Most likely, your grandfather, Meyer “Martin” Charap or his father married a woman of Anglican faith. My grandfather married a Church of England Lancashire lass who actually had been christened in the Roman Catholic Church as her dad was Catholic.
This is not out of the realm of reality that Jews voluntarily convert “out”, likewise, many non-Jews convert into the Jewish faith, popularly known as Jews-by-choice. A main reason for conversion is because the non-Jewish spouse chooses Judaism because he/she wants to raise their children as Jews. Likewise, your grandfather chose to be Anglican for the same reason. By what I have discussed with the only surviving descendent out of Argentina of my great-grandfather Charap it was more of an “obliteration of origin” than anything else.
“I use my mother's surname that's why I am a Charap?”
Using mother’s surnames was a very common practice in Yiddish Europe. Why did you take her name?
“My mother is Dorothy Elizabeth Charap, grandfater Meyer Charap, great-grandfather (born in Brody) was Abraham (later Jacques) Charap who married Sarah Frankel in the Great Synagogue of East London (I think that was the name) around 1895.”
Very interesting that it appears your Ggrandfather, Abraham changed his name to “Jacques”. I have seen records of other Jews of Eastern Europe studying in the “intellectual and highly cultured France” in the latter part of the 19th century – early 20th, so perhaps he wanted to give himself a “cool” name of the times? Maybe !
Since he married “Sarah Frankel in the Great Synagogue of East London”, it appears he was still a practicing Jew. Your mother Dorothy Elizabeth Charap, had the given and middle names of a gentile, or Christian. Yep, Elizabeth after her maternal grandmother and no idea why Dorothy !