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Cloris Sopha

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Aug 3, 2024, 1:45:41 AM8/3/24

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Allow me to introduce us: Chidananda, Das Bramchari, Das Adhikari, Indraram Das Brahmachari, Das Brahmachari. We are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. All of us were born within the borders of United States and we became his disciples there in the last two to four years, we were intitiated by him. Shri Agrawal extened an invitation to us to come here. We are not in knowledge what you might wish to do, so we are leaving the meeting up to you, and whatever you proplose we will do it. Hare Krishna!

No conception about absolute truth is possible because every conception is bound to be relative. The absolute transcends every conceptualization; you cannot conceive it. You can live it, you can be in it, but no intellectual conception is possible about the absolute. All conceptions are bound to be erroneous because conception, as such, is relative. So I can not say what my conception of the absolute is. I can only say that no conception is possible. The moment you go beyond conceptions, you know the absolute. But even when you have known it, you cannot transform it into a conception.

The so-called religious mind is always conceptualizing, but the really religious man is one who has come to know the boundaries of intelligence, the boundaries of intellect, the boundary of conceptions. The absolute is beyond. Or you can say the beyondness is the absolute.

You cannot move toward the ultimate if your attitude is sectarian, because the moment you become a member of a particular sect, your mind is burdened with particular conceptions, authorities, scriptures. Then you are not fresh, then you are not naked, you are not innocent. Your mind has become calculating. You are not ready to receive truth as it is. Rather, on the contrary, you have your own conception of truth to impose on reality. Now the truth must correspond to your scriptures, it must correspond with your conceptions. You are not open.

No, nothing is being known. You are just computerizing your mind; you are feeding it with information. The words may have been true on the lips of Krishna, he may have known what he was talking about, but the moment it is said, the truth is not conveyed. Only words are conveyed, and we begin to cling to these words. The words become the basis of all our knowledge.

Hello. Ya osho has agiven a good reply against all foolishness. But osho says no conception is possible but the truth lies in the atman. So it is not true that you can make no conception. Conception you percieve is wrong but the one who has given the conception is the conception that is krishna. Krishna says in chap 17 that absolute truth is objective of bhakti yoga . Bhakti yoga does not mean surrender. Bhakti yoga is a state of ananta gyana prema . Gyana means the pure intelligence of the atman wgich is brought back after conquering the mind. Chap 6 bg krishna says one who conquers mind reaches paramatman. Reaches means attains to krishnas nature . So krishna is truth. Even in 11 chap krishna says in 2 last verse that by starting bhaktiyoga you enter into the mystries of krishnas knowing by undivided devotional service.

Reality is relative to your mind. As long as your mind is habituated to the view of its separate nature, you will not see essence in everyday affairs. After a long process of self-refinement carried out correctly and effectively in everyday ordiary situations, the self-reifying mental habits that perpetuate the illusion of the separate self-identity as ultimately existent will die off, bit by bit and that much of your primordial potential will be activted as the selfless function of awareness. Using this is selfless adaption, activating the subtle operation of spiritual transformations in the midst of worldly situations.

That Suchness is reality is nominally due to the fact that it is neither absolute nor conditional. Both Nirvana and Creation are the same illusion. One is your mind before creation and the other is after. Clinging to one or the other is delusion. Neither absolute stillness nor karmic momentum is the essence of reality unified, present and naturally so, without ever entering creation. This is your nature already.

But the illusinons are created by mind. Infact mind shou ld stop. But jeeva is sat cit ananda. And so is krishna. You know when one becomes capable of understanding brahman that is when mind stops then the brahma jyanis give up ego.
But bhakti yogis also conquer the mind but donot give up ego. But use it in transcendal service onto krishna. Gyana aatained in both paths is same but ananda is more in krishna. Both are aspects of truth. Krishna is not material . He is spiritual. And this he is also spiritual not material duality.

Just try to take up to chanting a minimum of 108 times of the
HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE
HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE
every day for few months regularly. You will realize for yourself the higher consciousness evolving within you and the realization of God. When your hunger is fulfilled nobody else needs to say, you will know for yourself.
It is the easiest and only successful method that takes to the destination of realization of God at the present degraded age of Kali and no other methods including even the Conventional Vedic methods/rituals will succeed at this point of time .
As mentioned in the Kalisantharna Upanishad Ithi shodashaka namnam kali kalmashu nashanam.
All the other methodes/jugglery of words may sound great for a while, but eventually they will leave you at almost the same point where you are without any firm understanding but simply hovering with unresolved doubts, where no realizations taken place but only mental concoctions.

Out of the many dangers one encounters when seeking the truth of things the most insidious one is, I believe, the routine tendency to deceive ourselves with beliefs, and consequently indulging in self-deception.

Actually Iskcon does not believe that chanting hare krsna will give them moksha but rather the supreme lord will give them moksha. The mantra is simply calling out to their Lord. Anyone can believe anything they want but they cannot force it on others.

Osho never said to accept his authority, he only teach us how to get to the point where we can find ourselves as the only authority, same way, He found Himself as the only authority. All conceptions that you believe are The Truth, are nothing else, but the barrier on your way to realise this Truth.

I totally agree to this because truth can be felt , experienced in the moment ( what osho said) but the moment it is said in words , it has different interpretations and it is erroneous. However if we need to know the truth from such person we need to resonate with the person who experienced truth and not just understand it.

avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam param bhavam ajananto mama bhuta-mahesvaram!!
Translation-
Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.

You see this is how Iskcon works. They never want to have a discussion with others they are just interested in saying what they have to say , they do not even bother to listen to what others have to say. Actually many americans have experienced this with Christian Evangelists so it is not new for them. But I believe it is new for us Indians.

Sometimes I also wonder and ask myself that do they not understand that in order for the person to accept what they say they need to convince that person. So this basic sense is not present within them. I have also never seen them answer any objections to their philosophy.

Sorry Tejal it is not me who is desperate for Iskcon to answer my questions, it is the Iskcon followers who are desperate to spread their philosophy. Otherwise why should they infiltrate into forums ?

There is absolutely speculation here you idiot, even Jesus in the bible promises heaven, there is no way to verify it. How will you verify it to be true or false. You have to take it on faith. That you will go to Vaikuntha or Goloka has to be taken on faith. Thus you have faith in your scripture which says that you will go to Vaikuntha or Goloka. This is simply speculation nothing more you cannot verify it.

thanks for the right word, love of god can not be forced, the love the devotion has to come from within, before joing the hare krishna chanting i was a nastik, ate non-veg (not alcoholic or any other vice), but still krishna ji gave the power to chant 20 mala japa daily which i do it with pure love and not as duty bound, and we have to respect lord shiva and krishna together, osho said what he thought was right, infact he has brought out many flaws of our shastra, which is an eye opener, go to you tube listen to his lectures, we should love krishna ji, and iskon is there because of lord krishna ji and not that because of iskcon krishna ji came in to recognition, prabu pada only said whats mentioned in bhagwat gita and srimad bhagwatam. why waste time in nonsense argument, love and live, the truth will remain truth, nothing can change its, its a science which prabhu pada has said to us, we are all suffering in this material world, no matter how much we try to justify our self, we ca not escape the clutches of death.