God, Good and Gada

[RCK]

I heard Rabbi Moshe Lazerus interesting (folk-)etymology of the word "god" (gott in German) that it is derived from the word "good" (gut in German) and alludes to the notion that God is wholly good and created the world in order to bestow of His goodness unto others. Is there any source which draws a link between these words? 

I would like to suggest a Semitic etymology for the word god. The Bible (Isa. 65:11) refers to a type of idolatry known as the table of Gad. Similarly, the word גדא Gada used in Midrash and Talmud (Genesis Rabbah 71:9, TB Shabbat 67b. TB Moed Katan 27a, TB Nedarim 56b, TB Sanhedrin 20a) as referring to some concept of "luck" (usually in association with some auspicious charm). Elsewhere, the Talmud (TB Chullin 40a) refers to slaughtering an animal for the sake of the "Gada" of the mountain and Rashi (there but really mimicking the explanation of Sefer ha-Aruch) explains that Gada refers to an angel charged with the mountains. From all these sources, it would seem that the word Gada refers to some perceived supernatural force that offers luck and, in the latter case, is in charge of the mountains. I don't think it is a big stretch to say that the word god (and its Germanic equivalents) derive from this Aramaic word.

What do my dear colleagues think of this suggestion? 

Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

Beitar Illit, Israel

Check out my book Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew

[Biro, Tamas]

Do you have any suggestion when early Germans met the Aramaic people? When
and where language contact could take place? Any further proof for such a
language contact?

These are just a few questions that you should answer before formulating
such a hypothesis.

And then: have you checked what the reconstructed proto-Germanic form
would be (based on different Germanic languages, including Gothic)?

Tamas

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016, RCK wrote:

> I heard Rabbi Moshe Lazerus interesting (folk-)etymology of the word "god" (gott in German) that it is derived from the word "good" (gut in German) and alludes to the notion
> that God is wholly good and created the world in order to bestow of His goodness unto others. Is there any source which draws a link between these words? 
> I would like to suggest a Semitic etymology for the word god. The Bible (Isa. 65:11) refers to a type of idolatry known as the table of Gad. Similarly, the word גדא
> Gada used in Midrash and Talmud (Genesis Rabbah 71:9, TB Shabbat 67b. TB Moed Katan 27a, TB Nedarim 56b, TB Sanhedrin 20a) as referring to some concept of "luck" (usually in
> association with some auspicious charm). Elsewhere, the Talmud (TB Chullin 40a) refers to slaughtering an animal for the sake of the "Gada" of the mountain and Rashi (there
> but really mimicking the explanation of Sefer ha-Aruch) explains that Gada refers to an angel charged with the mountains. From all these sources, it would seem that the word
> Gada refers to some perceived supernatural force that offers luck and, in the latter case, is in charge of the mountains. I don't think it is a big stretch to say that the
> word god (and its Germanic equivalents) derive from this Aramaic word.
> What do my dear colleagues think of this suggestion? 
>
> Kol Tuv,
> Reuven Chaim Klein
> Beitar Illit, Israel
> Check out my book Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew

> Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew (Mosaica Press) on Amazon Academia.edu Google Scholar LinkedIN Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein on TorahDownloads.com
>
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>

[Slavomír Čéplö]

FYI, the relevant sections from the Leiden Etymological Dictionary of
Proto-Germanic, pp. 193-194:
http://www.bulbul.sk/jewish_languages/guda.png

[Alexis Manaster Ramer]

i dont see how all this nitpicking is relevant.  language is too important

to leave to linguists, and as we know for centuries or millennia rabbis

are the ones who have done all the important work of etymology.  in

fact EVERY rabbi i have ever read (at one time i used to read german

rabbis looking for examples bearing on the early history of jewish

german/yiddish) was among other things an expert on language.

incidentally, not only language.  if i ever get cancer, too, i will consult 

a rabbi and not an oncologist.  i just had one question: why can’t rabbi lazerus 

also be right because in that case good could come from god, which in turn 

comes from gada.  or maybe both come from gada in parallel, because obviously

it is good to have on your side of the angel who is in charge of mountains and not

so good to have be upset with you.

so why should we call rabbi lazerus’s brilliant etymology a “FOLK-etymology” if we don’t

apply the same term to rabbi klein’s?  

[incidentally, on a side note, technically a folk etymology is NOT a naive

pseudo-etymology but rather an ALTERATION which has no obvious etymology

in a given language (either because it is borrowed or because it has changed too

much over time either semantically or phonologically for its native origin to be 

apparent to a nonspecialist). so, the alteration of chaise longue to chaise lounge

so that it now can be related to lounge is a folk etymology but a claim that

butterfly is derived from flutterby is not a folk etymology but a false etymology.

there should be a term for a false etymology that is believed/taught by individuals

who dont understand how etymology works, but there apparently isn’t.  this is presumably

why the term folk etymology is used for this, but that’s confusing two very different things.

for one thing real folk etymologies are probably most often precisely the work of

the FOLK, whereas it seems that naive pseudo-etymologies have long been

the province of intellectuals of various sorts.  

[Phillip Minden]

Believe what you will about language, but I  implore you: should you ever have cancer, plrase consult an oncologist. I say that as a linguist and a rabbi, and about every colleague in either field will agree, I'm sure.

Phillip Minden

[Jules F. Levin]

On Saturday, January 23, 2016 at 12:40:53 PM UTC-8, Rudolph C. Klein wrote:
> I heard Rabbi Moshe Lazerus interesting (folk-)etymology of the word "god" (gott in German) that it is derived from the word "good" (gut in German) and alludes to the notion that God is wholly good and created the world in order to bestow of His goodness unto others. Is there any source which draws a link between these words? 
> I would like to suggest a Semitic etymology for the word god. The Bible (Isa. 65:11) refers to a type of idolatry known as the table of Gad. Similarly, the word גדא Gada used in Midrash and Talmud (Genesis Rabbah 71:9, TB Shabbat 67b. TB Moed Katan 27a, TB Nedarim 56b, TB Sanhedrin 20a) as referring to some concept of "luck" (usually in association with some auspicious charm). Elsewhere, the Talmud (TB Chullin 40a) refers to slaughtering an animal for the sake of the "Gada" of the mountain and Rashi (there but really mimicking the explanation of Sefer ha-Aruch) explains that Gada refers to an angel charged with the mountains. From all these sources, it would seem that the word Gada refers to some perceived supernatural force that offers luck and, in the latter case, is in charge of the mountains. I don't think it is a big stretch to say that the word god (and its Germanic equivalents) derive from this Aramaic word.
> What do my dear colleagues think of this suggestion? 
>
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> Regarding Germanic < Aramaic, I don't agree with this etymon, but I was contemplating a possible path. Germanic was spoken as far as the Black Sea, and both Slavs and Indo-Iranians were around. Was Indo-Iranian ever in contact with Aramaic in the East? The Slavic word for god--bogu, is borrowed from I-I, along with other religious terms. So maybe a path of some sort existed in 3rd millenium BP.

Jules Levin
>

[manast...@yahoo.com]

Next thing you will tell me that for jokes I should consult a comedian.

[manast...@yahoo.com]

If the ancestor of Germanic at THAT time had borrowed a form like gada it would have subsequently undergone the Germanic sound laws and we would AT BEST that is giving u every possible benefit of the doubt be praying to COT.

[manast...@yahoo.com]

No scratch that. To CAT.

[Thamar E. Gindin]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=god

Thamar E. Gindin
WWW.thmrsite.com

[Thamar E. Gindin]

Rivka Halevi couldn't send this to the list, so I'm sending on her behalf:

*gad  'luck, fortune' is a Semitic word (root: g.d.d.) which occurs,
besides Hebrew (Biblical Hebrew: Le'a called her son Gad because she said
to Ya'aqov "ba' gad" = 'came fortune) Gen. 30:10-11)   also in  Syriac and
Arabic (jadd ڊدٌٌ  with a dagesh on the d ). Historically , then, there is
no connection to the Germanic languages. The Yiddish equivalent to bish
gada is shlimazl.  Maybe that the attributive expression (hi') GEDA (Jeda)
used in colloquial MH  meaning 'a strong and successful woman' (calque from
Arabic) is to be treated on a par with that Semitic root. *

ד"ר תמר עילם גינדין

הרצאות העשרה ייחודיות

גילוי נאות: זה לא (רק) מטוב לב. אני גם מקבלת הטבה אם אתם קונים דרך הלינק שלי.

[manast...@yahoo.com]

It doesn't follow at all that

there is no connection to Germanic.

It is just an assertion 

[Phillip Minden]

I'm tempted to say so you should, but as I excused myself in answer to a friendly offline message, I shouldn't write e-mails and take care of a baby at the same time. :-)

[Ben Atlas]

This reminds me an old anecdote. From a 1915 German Newspaper.

"A Jew asks Sadigurer Rebbe, who is going to win the war (WWI)?
The rabbi replies - GOTT:
G/ermanen, O/sterreicher, T/uerkishchen, T/rupen."

Here is the copy of that 1905 Newspaper:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r2xk8styk4vhb4e/Sadugurer1905.jpg?dl=0