"Are there Gypsy Jews"?
Judith Cohen
Both the question and the answer below seem to assume that all Gypsies
are from Eastern Europe (and in fact the answer sort of assumes all Jews
are too.)
Also, while many Gypsies don't mind being called Gypsies, many - perhaps
many more - do mind. In my home country, Canada, we respect the wishes
of First Peoples NOT to be called Indians, and NOT to be called Eskimos,
but to be called Inuit for the latter, and for the former, whatever they
prefer: First Nations, Native, Aboriginal, or, preferably, their various
nation and tribe names.
Similarly, "Gypsy" is a term which in English comes from the mistaken
thought that they came from Egypt (hence the spelling: it's Gypsy, not
Gipsy, as the question wrote), and in fact the word "gyp" in English
came from the negative associations with this erroneous name. But, as I
said, some don't mind, as long as they are treated with respect.
It's become common to refer to all Gypsies as Roma or Rom. This is also
an error, as far from all are in fact Roma. But the term has come to be
accepted by a very large number of Gypsies, especially in Eastern Europe
and Turkey.
In Spain and Portugal, they are called Gitanos (Spain) and Ciganos
Portugal). A lot of imaginative and romantic notions have been bandied
around about historical connections between Sephardic Jews and Iberian
Gypsies - there is really no documentation about this, but there is,
historically and geographically and culturally, likely to have been more
contact between Iberian Gypsies and Muslims than Iberian Gypsies and
Jews. Today in rural Portugal, where there are Crypto-Jews ("Marranos")
, they live next door to Gypsies and work in the same travelling outdoor
markets, but have just about nothing to do with each other (in the town
I know best, what they have most in common seems to be - being my friends!)
Then there are Gypsies from Rajasthan, Egypt, France... and the
Travellers of the U.K. - which Gypsies are you referring to?
Tamas is, of course, totally correct about the musical situation he
describes - but you will notice that he does not suggest there were
actually family connections among them, but rather professional
(musician) connections. Recently, a similar project to the Hungarian one
he mentions has taken place in Rumania, again interviewing Roma
musicians about their memories of Jewish tunes from decades ago. I don't
have a specialized knowledge of Roma in Eastern Europe, but I do have
some friends among Bulgarian Roma musicians. One I know says that her
mother had been a Jewish baby entrusted by her (the baby's) parents to
local Gypsies during the Holocaust. She didn't know anything else about
Judaism until as an adult she started to travel with her musician
husband, and ask some questions - she is friendly to Jews and to Israel,
but otherwise has no particular connection, and her case , as far as I
can see, is treated by her community as a mildly interesting exception.
So, I would say, no, there are not "Jewish Gypsies" or "Gypsy Jews."
Judith
Dr Judith Cohen www.yorku.ca/judithc
> Are there gipsy jews? I mean, jews with a gypsy descent? Is there anything about the relationship between these two people?
> >
>
>
> Dear Isabel,
>
> What comes to my mind is the strong relationship between Jewish and gypsy
> musicians in the pre-war Hungary. I don't know if this type of
> relationship interests you, but if yes, you could certainly do some
> research on the issue.
>
> Two examples:
>
> 1. What is known worldwide as "Hungarian Gypsy music" is extremely
> different from the traditional Roma folk music. It is/was a type of
> Hungarian music played by Gypsy musicians to a Hungarian audience, and
> composed in many cases by Hungarian Jews.
>
> 2. In the countryside these Gypsy musicians used to play a lot together
> with Jewish musicians before the Holocaust. Musicologists collecting folk
> music contacted old Gypsy musicians in the 1990s to collect what they
> remembered from Jewish folk music.
>
Frantz
Shalom!
I am aware of Roma communities in Jerusalem. Some live among Bedouins. The majority of the Roma (or Gypsies or gitanos or calo people) in Israel are Muslim living among "Palestinians" in very poor conditions. A few are Jewish who converted or were raised Jewish. I know a few of them. These ones live in better conditions, although you may find some among the Muslim who have businesses and are doing well.
Shana tova vechag sameach!
Frantz
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