Tahara for murder victim

[Michael Slater]

I suspect this is a first class bubbameyseh, but I told the friend who heard this that I would ask:

"Someone said that for murder victims, you skip the purification as a sign of outrage over the murder."

Anyone ever hear of this?

Thanks.

M

[Deborah Brown]

I recall that if a murder victim's clothing has blood on it and has not yet been removed when the body is received, that you do not undress the body, and therefore, you presumably do not do the tahara, but bury the body in the clothing. And I believe that this is to be a sign to God of outrage at the murder. The source cited for this in the Gamliel course content is the Shulchan Aruch.

 

Deborah Brown

M

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[Barbara Mannlein]

Michael Slater wrote:
I suspect this is a first class bubbameyseh, but I told the friend who heard this that I would ask:
"Someone said that for murder victims, you skip the purification as a sign of outrage over the murder."
Anyone ever hear of this?

=================

This has been discussed before.

If you google your subject thusly: "Tahara for murder victims” (note the “ “ marks,) many discussions of this subject will come up.

I was most impressed by these two discussions:
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/burial/bodysoul.htm,
http://www.kosherfuneral.com/dignitybeyonddeath.html

Barbara Stern Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

[Kerry Swartz]

From the Tahara Manual of Tifereth Israel:

Where the deceased died instantaneously through violence or accident and his/her body and garments
are spattered with blood, no washing or Tahara is performed. Without removing the clothes of the deceased, a
sheet (Sovev) is wrapped around him and he is placed in the casket. All members of the Chevra shall use their
best discretion in making determinations in this matter, as well as other health issues.

Michael Slater

July 8, 2013 7:06 pm

[Rabbi Joe Blair]

Michael, 

Yes. Halachah - Torah and Talmud The blood cries out, you don't wash it away or hide it. Would need to look it up for the exact citations, but yes. 

Joe

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M

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[Saul Guberman]

It is not a bubba mayseh.  It is part of the customs.  As long as the person is still in their street clothes, they should be left that way.  It is a sign to Gd to have mercy & outrage.   Most people today who are in this situation are disrobed and partially or totally autopsied by the ME.   In that case the taharah should be done the regular way.

 

Saul

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Michael Slater <m_sla...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:

M

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[Fishel & Elianna]

I am asking our leader if we hold that way.  What if the person was, say, suffocated, has v'shalom ?

Avoiding loss of blood IS critical.  If someone was stabbed and has open wounds, you could not do the tahara - actual throwing of water- because blood would be lost. Most bodies do continue to bleed.

When we have an autopsy, if the are poorly sewn together, (unfortunately that happens) and/or if the head is open, we can not do a tahara.  But if possible we DO clean the person up and save ALL the bloody cleaning clothes & any bloody garments which are put in the aron at the foot.

We once had an organ donation meis - who donated all the skin off her lower body & legs. She arrived wrapped in gauze from the mid chest down.  We washed her face (of make up), removed nail polish, wiped up stray bits of blood  and then lay her in the sheet.  We lay the tachrichim on top and tied them there.  All the usual prayers were said.

We have had some bodies in bad shape- a couple who clearly died ... unusually?  We do our best, on the meis and to cope with feeling disturbed.

Mrs B

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[Michael Slater]

Thanks, all.  I forget that I own a copy (somewhere on the shelves) of R. Epstein's book.  

MS

[Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips]

Thanks to Barbara, Saul and All:

 

Yes, Rochel Berman's book is a key l resource on these painful issues--as is the Tahara Manual of Practices by Rabbi Mosha Epstein (may he live and be well). 

 

Saul Guberman's summary of the contingencies has been my understanding as well, as per page 42 of Rabbi Epstein's book.

 

As I prepare to teach One Day Before We Die on ethical wills next month, I'm also reminded that the ethical will I've been writing and revising since 1991 (in Israel just before the first Gulf War) mentions these taharah contingencies (along with those of organ donation)--and continues to reflect on their implications:

 

"This much has not changed: If I am to meet my death through violence, please know that I confronted this possibility in advance, and that it does not negate any of the work I have done or the values I hold dear....Please do not let any response to my death perpetuate the cycles of hatred, backlash and further violence that, in my lifetime, I labored as best I could to end."

 

"Teach us to number our days, that we may bring a heart of wisdom" (Psalm 90:12).

 

With many blessings for the seasons ahead,

 

Regina

 

Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips, MSW, MPH

Director, WAYS OF PEACE Community Resources

 

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[Rick Light]

Hi Everyone!

One of the most profound Tahara experiences I've had was a man who had a bullet wound in the head and another in his heart.  When we entered the room there was a body bag on the table.  When I opened it, there was another body bag inside.  It was half full of bood, along with the body.  We did the entire Tahara, carefully soaking up the blood in towels that we put into the aron.  The sense of gratitude in the room was powerfully palpable.  I think kindness is more important than rules about what should or should not be done.  This man needed kindness probably more than most deceased do, and we showed him that.  G-d doesn't need bloody clothes to tell him who has been murdered.  Souls do, however, sometimes  need help moving between realms.  Our task of midwifing souls is what's most important here.  For me, it is important to remember what's important.

Respectfully,

     Rick Light

[malk...@aol.com]

rick,

beautifully expressed.

kol tuv,

malke frank

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[sandra Ottenberg]

Hello,

A few months ago we had a suicide.  She was a young woman who had completed her stint in the army  overseas came home and took her life.   These cases we never forget.  We of course treated her with respect and love.

Sandy O

 

From: jewish-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jewish-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Light
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:23 AM
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [jewish-funerals] Re: Tahara for murder victim

 

Hi Everyone!

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