Please respond to this informal Poll!!

[rab...@comcast.net]

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

[Lynn Greenhough]

Hi Laurie,

I am very sorry you and your Chevra went through this situation. Over Pesach yet.

 

This “strong-arming” reminds me of a story I was told when I was interviewing people for my thesis. The local Chabad rabbi was trying to force the local Chevra into allowing certain people of certain religiosities into the taharah room. The Chevra Rosh, an elder in the Chevra by decades infamously stated, “Rabbis come and rabbis go, but the Chevra is here forever” and forthwith shooed the rabbi out the door.

 

That said, there is a back story here. I don’t know what it is, but I really don’t like the tactical manouvering that you are describing. Forcing experienced Chevra members to comply with such a series of demands undermines the very trust and kavod every Chevra member brings into the taharah room. We also do not have family members in the room.

 

I have made one exception to our “no-one other than Chevra members” rule. We had a sudden death of a young girl one Yontif. Our whole community was rent by her death. One woman came to me and asked if a small group of woman – mothers, teachers of this girl – could be present during the taharah. We, the Chevra,  quickly discussed this request – which was humbly asked, with no pressure – and we agreed – with certain conditions regarding their presence. After the taharah all of us stood with each other and sang together in this girls memory. This was a very unusual situation. But every situation is unique. What upsets me most about your description, Laurie, is that your decisions were undermined and your practices were questioned and not trusted by the very people who should be backing you up.

 

Denmark.

 

With all respect,

Lynn

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[Klapper, David G.]

Our policy is to not allow family to attend tahara - we allowed a brother-in-law to attend one time, many years ago - and found it to be very uncomfortable, even though the tahara went well with no unusual 'issues'.  When requested, we allow family to help move the coffin from the preparation room to the shomer room - but family is not present in the preparation room at any time before or during tahara.

The question of 'strangers' during tahara - when we 'recruit' potential Chevra Kaddisha members from our congregation, we bring them (usually one at a time) into the preparation room to watch and learn and see if this is really something they think they could do.  We do not welcome a true 'stranger', that is, someone who wants to attend a tahara just to see what we do out of curiosity or because they are thinking about documenting a tahara - even with family permission.

David

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From: jewish-...@googlegroups.com <jewish-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of rab...@comcast.net <rab...@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:41 PM

To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [jewish-funerals] Please respond to this informal Poll!!

 

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

--

[Aptaker]

I’ve not been active for years, but when I did do tahara, our group was flexible in terms of allowing family members (same sex of course) participate in Tahara.  As one synagogue member who wanted to participate in the ritual told me, “My father was there holding me naked at my bris, changing my diapers, and caring for me and about me every day of his life. I will be there with him and for him at the end of his.”  It was a moving rational and he participated.  It’s not a “law” to exclude family members, but rather a custom, and sometimes customs bend, and twist, and fold, and shift for the sake of community and peace, and it doesn’t detract from the ritual at all that I can tell or that I’ve experienced.

Rich Aptaker

El Cerrito, CA

On Apr 22, 2018, at 7:41 PM, rab...@comcast.net wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

[Lynne Sandler]

We have an “unwritten” rule about no family present. An issue came up about a year ago when some female members of a family wanted to be present for their mother, who was the metah. I checked with our rabbi and he agreed that it was not a good idea. We told the family and they still insisted, but someone from our group spoke to one of them and finally convinced them not to come.

 

Lynne

Agudas Achim Congregation, Alexandria, VA

 

From: jewish-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jewish-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of rab...@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:41 PM
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [jewish-funerals] Please respond to this informal Poll!!

 

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

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[Louise Chatlynne]

We allow non-members, but they must participate in the Tahara as if they were member.  It is a way to recruit new members and train others for participating in taharot elsewhere.  We do not have a policy on family members but I would forbid mourners: son, daughter, sibling, mother, father, spouse from participating.  A daughter-in-law is not an obligated mourner, but awfully close.  It is a difficult call.  It may be something she wants to do out of love and respect for the deceased.

________

Louise Chatlynne

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 10:41 PM, <rab...@comcast.net> wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

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[Ilene Rubenstein]

Generally, when my chevra performs tahara, family members do not participate.

I had thought that I would want to be part of my mom's tahara for a similar reason to the one already mentioned. I had been one of her primary care givers in her last years and had already been called upon to take on some rather intimate tasks so performing this last task of love seemed like a logical thing that I would want to do. However, when the time came, there were many other things I needed to tend to, and emotionally, I did not feel the same need to be there that I thought I would. I was with her when she died, and due to some administrative issues that caused a delay in releasing her body to the funeral home, I served as her first shomeret, and then I was very happy to have our chevra take over. I had no doubt that she would be cared for lovingly.

There was at least one exception to our general practice that I can recall. The (identical!) twin sister of the meitah asked to be part of the tahara. She discussed this with our Rabbi who agreed that she could. The team was alerted ahead of time to ensure that everyone participating was ok with this. I confess that I was apprehensive. As it turns out, this was one of the most moving taharot I have ever performed. I don't remember the specific things that were said, but I do recall that her comments and insights added a deep intimacy and love to the tahara. Years later, I can still recall how she stroked her sister's hair and kissed her forehead.

This experience taught me very clearly that our practices should remain flexible and open to meet the needs of the community - and the mourners.

Reading the initial query about this, I had the same reaction to it that was mentioned - that the chevra was being "strong-armed" into compliance. But then I had a different reaction to it. For whatever reason, this was clearly VERY important to this family. The role of the chevra is not only to care for the deceased, but also to comfort the mourner. If allowing them to participate in the tahara will provide that comfort I think it should be carefully considered. Issues to be addressed would include why the request is being made, making sure the person would know what to expect in terms of the process and even the ambiance of the facilities, assessing whether the person could participate without impacting the sanctity of the tahara, and making sure that the individual members who would be part of the team are all comfortable with this. Time for debriefing afterwards is always important, but I think it would be particularly so in this type of situation.

In terms of having individuals present as observers, we don't do this. We have included individuals who are not full chevra members, but with the understanding that they will participate in at least some way. It can be limited to reading the liturgy, or doing minimal tasks like cleaning the fingernails, but to the best of my knowledge, nobody has been brought into a tahara room just to watch.

It is often said that as chevra members, "we do the best we can". In my opinion, doing our best requires being flexible  and truly open to the needs of the mourners and not getting stuck in "rules" that are customs and not halacha - provided that the sanctity of the tahara is maintained.

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018, 12:16:40 AM EDT, rab...@comcast.net <rab...@comcast.net> wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

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[Sam Salkin]

Our Chevre's policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara. 

Samuel J. Salkin FDR 3371
Executive Director

SINAI MEMORIAL CHAPEL CHEVRA KADISHA FD262

BEIT OLAM OF CONTRA COSTA, INC.
1501 Divisadero Street
P.O. Box 15579
San Francisco, California 94115

E: ssa...@sinaichapel.org
F: 415.673.3407
P: 415.921.3636

W: http://sinaichapel.org 

[Jean Berman]

Hi Laurie,

I have heard from people in other chevre that they allow a family member in to do something at the end, like put on the bonnet, sprinkle Israeli earth, or wrap the sovev. My women's chevrah is pretty open. We recently had a daughter-in-law be present. She had cared for the meitah when she was alive. We invited her to watch or help, whatever felt comfortable to her, and she ended up helping. It was a positive experience. 

A few years ago my daughter was visiting and I asked if she could be allowed to observe, which she did, quietly and with respect. It felt to me like she was was us spiritually.

Rabbi Avivah Erlich, who does home taharot, has spoken of the usefulness of having someone "assigned" to a family member, in case they need care in the midst of the process. I think this would be a good idea in a typical tahara in a funeral home, too.

Brachot!

Jean Berman 

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 10:41 PM, <rab...@comcast.net> wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

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[Kerry Swartz]

Our frum Chevra has as rule that no family members be present during the Tahara. Strangers are not allowed unless they are Chevra members of other communities who wish to observe our Minhagim (still these situations are rare and do put some extra pressure on us). We have our teams who are trained and work together in a state of Kavanah and anything that changes our dynamic could impact our ability to stay focused and efficient.

A sister-in-law would not be allowed.

Kerry Swartz, Vancouver BC

via Newton Mail

[Susan Barnes]

Laurie -

I'm sorry you felt pressured. One thing to keep in mind is that legally, the body "belongs" to the next of kin (or other person legally designated), and they get the final say about what happens to the meit/ah. We can then choose to participate in what they want, or choose not to participate.

We highly discourage family members from attending the taharah. We have only had a family member attend once, when we were doing the taharah in the meitah's home, and her niece wanted to watch. We were already on tricky ground because the meitah's brother, who was the next of kin, thought the whole idea of taharah was "silly" and there was no way to keep the niece out of the room, so the choice was do it with her there or not do it at all.

The niece didn't say a thing through the whole taharah, and then left without saying a word. We packed up our supplies, and when we went downstairs we found her sobbing in her husband's arms. She looked up at us and said, "That was so beautiful."

So, all's well that ends well.

Susan

[Libby Bottero]

Like some others on this list, our chevra kadisha has always been fairly flexible depending on the situation. On a few occasions we have allowed a close family member to be present during taharah.  For example, a woman in the medical field who had been caring for her mother at home during her mother's final illness, doing the bathing, dressing changes, catheters, etc...wanted to do this for her mom as a loving caring act, and she was not freaked out or distressed by seeing her deceased mother during taharah...the daughter was both helpful and appreciative to be part of the physical and spiritual process of taharah, and she later joined our taharah team as a faithful volunteer. 

However, I recognize the situation may be different in other communities; this is just what works for us.

Our chevra kadisha is an independent group of volunteers that serves the entire Jewish community, not just one denomination or congregation, and many of our members have been doing this for years. If one of our taharah team members is not comfortable with some aspect of a particular situation (e.g. the deceased chose to be cremated rather than buried after taharah), or in the case described in Laurie's posting (a non-member's presence during taharah), then the volunteer simply chooses not to participate in that particular taharah and we call another volunteer.  We are each free to choose depending on the situation.

Shalom,

Libby Bottero

Eugene, Oregon

On 04/22/2018 07:41 PM, rab...@comcast.net wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

--

[Breslers GroupRelatedOnly]

We do not even tell who of US does a tahara.

It is a ritual for the benefit of the MEIS.

We are only tools.

I believe emotions, personalities, politics, etc. should not be allowed even near the tahara process.

That can cause a variety of problems.

Our chevra once was needed to go to another town, hundred plus miles away, because the family of the meis

had a "problem" with the local chevra. We had to sneak in. How sad the "who" of doing the tahara- disturbed the mitzvah.

Once two family members came in for a moment of silent, private, prayer before we started. Their mother remained covered with the sheet.

She had suddenly died elsewhere and they had not been near her since. 
The funeral home probably usually would handle that, but the meis had just arrived,
it was already late at night, and funeral was next morning early. So we gave them 10 minutes.

When my father-in-law was nifter in a small town in another state,
my husband & relatives discussed doing the tahara themselves, since there was no Chevra in that area.

Even though it meant transporting the departed hours each way, just for the tahara,
I strongly encouraged them to "leave it to the professionals."

It was not only about doing it right. (Being female I could not guide them through the process)

People (non-chevra members) who ask or offer to participate truly have no idea what they are asking.

What if the meis had a difficult ending?

They will not be bothered watching us pulling tubes from all over?

Cope with sheets of skin coming off?

The body vomiting on the floor...

Or, either us or the meis, doing other things which may be very uncomfortable for someone watching a loved one.

AND invade the meis's privacy un-necessarily in the process?

My husband had already been changing his father's diapers in hospice...
but even so, not everyone is up for all the details...

And you can't know ahead of time what will come up.

It is nice a family cares to participate in taking care of their loved one's last needs- but the tahara is not the place in our opinion.

Generations of learned people have worked out what is most respectful:

There is shmira, filling the grave, writing an appropriate eulogy, maybe setting up some chesed to carry on their memory...

But interested to see what others share.

Elianna

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[sandra Ottenberg]

Hello everyone.  I have been doing Tahara for 52 years. I started with a partner but she passed away in her late 80s.  than I did it alone for years until I moved to a senior community and joined a chevera group from my temple.  I have done my cousins and grandmother. My family asked me to do the honor . I am glad that I was able to make them comfortable.

Sandy in New Jersey.

[Ilene Rubenstein]

Although I don't foresee, and wouldn't necessarily advocate for a wholesale change of the more common practice of tahara being performed by those who are not mourners or other family members, I couldn't help but notice that the most vehement responses opposed to including a family member came from chevras that had never done so whereas far more nuanced (and mostly positive) responses came from groups that had actually experienced doing so. Interesting.

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018, 12:16:40 AM EDT, <rab...@comcast.net> wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

--

[malk...@aol.com]

dear laurie,

in pittsburgh, the funeral home sets the policy which is that no family member is permitted in the taharah room.  however,if the family member is a member of the chevra kadisha and wants to be present as part of the team, then it is okay.

be well,

malke frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Lynne Sandler <invi...@verizon.net>
To: jewish-funerals <jewish-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 24, 2018 9:34 am
Subject: RE: [jewish-funerals] Please respond to this informal Poll!!

We have an “unwritten” rule about no family present. An issue came up about a year ago when some female members of a family wanted to be present for their mother, who was the metah. I checked with our rabbi and he agreed that it was not a good idea. We told the family and they still insisted, but someone from our group spoke to one of them and finally convinced them not to come.

 

Lynne

Agudas Achim Congregation, Alexandria, VA

 

From: jewish-fune...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jewish-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of rab...@comcast.net
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 10:41 PM
To: jewish-fune...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [jewish-funerals] Please respond to this informal Poll!!

 

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

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[Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips]

Deeply appreciate the question and all responses to date. I would caution against too much flexibility out of a desire to avoid conflict, since that can definitely backfire.

There are solid reasons why the participation of close family members in taharah is traditionally discouraged. It can compromise anonymity, add emotional pressures to the team dynamic, and create a slippery slope toward more decisions based on social pressures.  

It can also disenfranchise those bereaved family members whose request to participate is declined. Consulting with hevra groups in various stages of formation, I know of at least one taharah team whose well-intentioned decision to include a particular family member inadvertently widened painful rifts within the bereaved family as a whole. A consistent policy can help to prevent the situation in which a hevra becomes unintentionally identified with hurtful favoritism due to inclusion of some family members at the expense of others.

The hevra kadisha can learn much from modern addiction recovery fellowships about anonymity as “the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.” To the extent possible, we need to insure that our sacred decision-making is not compromised by considerations of who knows whom, social status or personal / financial connections. 

On the other hand, as Elianna noted, any family member of ritual age is eligible for sh'mirah (which can almost always use reinforcements around the clock). I know of one South American Jewish experience (Uruguay, I believe) in which sh'mirah for a parent was actually expected. And, as Jean mentioned, there are some hevra traditions which sensitively incorporate family participation into final identifications (such as the opportunity to tie one of the final bows before the coffin is closed for the funeral service). 

With deep appreciation and many blessings for the Season of Revelation and beyond,

Regina

 

Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips, MSW, MPH

Executive Director, WAYS OF PEACE Community Resources

 

"In cities of diversity...we organize ourselves and our money...

to sustain the poor...and visit the sick...and bury the dead...and comfort the bereaved...

for these are ways of peace." (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate Gittin)

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 10:41 PM, <rab...@comcast.net> wrote:

Chevre    -  I have a question for you.... on a particular issue that came up during Pesach.....There was a tahara requested and 4 ladies were available.  BUT then, the son of the deceased called me and insisted his wife -  the daughter in law - be present at the tahara.  Our chevres policy is NO family and no strangers welcomed during the tahara.   Then the rosh of the men's group called me and asked us to change the policy. Then, the rabbis of this community called us in to meet - telling us that this rule needs to be flexible....citing that other groups allow.  So, the question I would like to have answered by you:  ....do some, most, any chevre allow non-members to be present???  The tally wont change our decision - but, we would like to know if it is acceptable to a majority of chevre groups.  I hope  this informal  poll  can shed some light on what most chevre's do.  It would be enlightening to know what is the "going" policy!!                      Thank  You - Laurie

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[Barry Pitegoff]

Barry E Pitegoff
Barr...@gmail.com
"There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in."  Leonard Cohen  1934-2016

On Apr 25, 2018, at 4:01 AM, Barry Pitegoff <barr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

I agree with all of the reasoning presented against family member participation in tahara.  Extending this topic conceptually up to the 30,000 foot level, the question posed is also one of, at the time of death when you are an onen, what should you step back and allow the community to do for you?  Our tradition advocates for the first meal following burial, the meal of condolence at the shiva house, be prepared from food that was not in the house before the death, specifically gathered, prepared and served by the community TO the bereaved, who are the first ones to eat at that and starting with the blessing and with the roundness of special foods, like challah and had-cooked eggs, and the blessing on the wine, of course.  

Dr. Aan Wolfelt, (https://www.centerforloss.com), grief speaker and director of his Center for Loss & Life Relationships is a true professional I have been honored to study with several times.  Alan advocates for little, if any, direct family involvement at the funeral.  You should be sitting in the front absorbing and processing the service.  It is better to tell the stories to the rabbi, cantor, or chaplain who will officiate the funeral by weaving in the non-overlapping stories while cognizant of the time frame

In interests of full disclosure, I did officiate at the funerals of my mother and her sister, my aunt, and her brother (my uncle), and my grandmother. I rationalized that by telling myself that I was the most experienced funeral officiant in the family, and I can balance liturgy with time constraints, while respecting all the comments received.  Perhaps[s I should have taken my own advice.  

In sum, perhaps tahara/rechitza, like the meal of condolence like speaking at the funerals, should be acts the community does for the bereaved.

Barry E Pitegoff  Professional Member, NAJC: Association of Jewish Chaplains, and Staff Chaplain, St. Anthony Community Hospital, Warwick, NY
Barr...@gmail.com
"There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in."  Leonard Cohen  1934-2016

[Cindy Dubansky]

Our men's and women's teams have never before allowed anyone to come and just observe. It is possible that such a request might be honored under a special circumstance, but up to now we have suggested to the person it is time to let go and allow themselves to grieve and let the community take care of their relative, and that we welcome them sitting shmira. We do allow and welcome those who want to see if tahara is for them, but only those who are truly interested in possibly joining the tahara team. One particular situation we have always avoided is when a family member or person designated by the family who is more frum than we are (we are Conservative) wants to come and observe; those situations are perceived as "supervising" us or suggesting we are not kosher enough or may not know what we are doing and we have always declined those requests. We have allowed a sister-in-law who was a member of the tahara team of another community to participate in tahara with us. Likewise, I participated in my grandmother's tahara in another community and it was one of the most moving and special experiences I have ever had and helped me bring closure to her loss.

[Meirah]

Dear Laurie, Our Chevra is just getting started. On our first taharah, the wife of the deceased told his sister in law that, "of course she could participate," without even asking us first! There are so many factors to consider: The condition of the body, the length of time the chevra has been working together, the emotional state of would be participants.  After asking advice from David, we invited the family to meet with us outside the taharah room, after the deceased had been casketed, and to invite them to tie the leg and neck ties. The sister in law came with her two daughters, one who had been visiting with the deceased, and knew the state of her deterioration and emaciation. She was unrecognizable from her healthy self. The other daughter had been away at college, and had not seen this change. It was emotionally difficult for her to see her auntie thus, even though dressed in her white tachrichin she looked peaceful. Later on, I saw this mother, and she said it had been meaningful for them, even though difficult. I don't know if I would do this again. It feels irresponsible in a way, for the emotional disruption, and no formal understanding for any follow up. This taharah was hard on my new team, so I cannot imagine how hard it must have been for the family. I think it is your team's decision as to what their rules will be, no one else's, and if you choose to be flexible, there is a great deal to think about before letting someone in who knows nothing of the ritual, the attitude necessary, and the emotional impact of seeing the corpse of one they loved when filled with life. It was hard for me to explain to the husband that anyone just doesn't "drop in" to a taharah...he was angry at first, explaining that this sister in law had been caring for the deceased, and certainly had the correct temperament. But I explained that it wasn't that I didn't have faith in her courage, but that it is a complex ritual, and well, it's somewhat like Nadav and Abihu offering strange fire...with perhaps the best of intentions. Good luck. Rabbi Me'irah Iliinsky

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 9:16:36 PM UTC-7, Laurie wrote:

[Andy Gilmore]

Good evening,

I have read this thread with great interest.

I am aware that most, if not all of you are in the USA whereas I am in London England.

I am a member of the United Synagogue men’s Chevra Kadisha.

The United Synagogue is the largest synagogue body in the Uk with over 60 synagogues.

Within the United Synagogue we follow the Shulchan Aruch which is pretty descriptive what family family can and can not take part/be present etc. at a Tahara.

Post Tahara, upon request we will permit close family members to place earth on the deceased once in the coffin and in the shrouds. We will not allow them to open the shrouds. We are permit family members to put the lid on the casket and to bang the dowels into the coffin.

I appreciate that my wording may sound over harsh and concur that in reality we have never been confrontational as I think it makes our lives easier my referring to scripture as opposed to implying that these are our rules.
Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Meirah <rabbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> was

[Jean Berman]

I appreciate all the thoughts and experiences of those in this discussion...it's wonderful to have this venue to explore our rituals and minhagim together. Cindy's post put me in mind of the tradition in Islam. You may know that the Muslim traditions of care for their deceased is similar in so many ways to ours. A significant difference is that traditionally those same sex relatives and close friends of the deceased are the ones who wash, bless and dress the body, and that this brings comfort both in advance and at the time. Jean

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[Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips]

Good to read the continuing consensus about protecting the integrity of the hevra against the imposition of outside demands and strong-arming (as contrasted with respectful requests).

Further to Andy's comments, I know of one traditional hevra that allowed a bereaved son to participate in taharah but sent him out of the room at the point of genital washing, which they forbade as "uncovering one's parent's nakedness." 

Further to Jean's observation, the participation of immediate family members does seem to be the defining difference between Jewish and Muslim traditions. Here is a moving first-person testimony: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/oct/26/muslim-daughter-mother-burial

I think it's important to highlight that, where family participation is expected (as in Muslim tradition), this becomes the organizing principle. Where family participation is discretionary, it's crucial to articulate the alternative organizing principle/s in the interests of fairness to all. Family dynamics are complicated, and the taharah team will not necessarily know how the participation of one family member impacts the other non-participating members of the bereaved family.

With deep appreciation and many blessings for the Season of Revelation and beyond,

Regina

 

Rabbi Regina Sandler-Phillips, MSW, MPH

Executive Director, WAYS OF PEACE Community Resources

 

"In cities of diversity...we organize ourselves and our money...

to sustain the poor...and visit the sick...and bury the dead...and comfort the bereaved...

for these are ways of peace." (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate Gittin)

[Ilene Rubenstein]

This has indeed been a very interesting exchange with a variety of perspectives. I agree with many of the points that have been made, particularly concerning respecting the dignity, process and comfort of chevra members, and the importance of not unwittingly becoming involved in some kind of family drama (nobody needs that).

I think that rather than getting stuck in a fixed "these are the rules" position, it would be more helpful to gain an understanding of the reasons behind a request for family participation, and to respond to those underlying concerns. What are they really looking for? Why? How do they think this will help them? These underlying concerns and emotional needs will be unique to each family, indeed, even to each member of the family, and the called-for response will be equally unique. I believe such an individuated response is possible within the framework of the chevra's traditional practices.

Very often, I suspect, it need not come down to a yes/no power competition. Open and respectful dialogue can help understand what the mourners are needing and then ways of meeting those needs can be found whether that involves some measure of participation (minimal at the beginning or end, or full) or finding alternatives that would satisfy their needs without compromising what the chevra is comfortable with.

Perhaps the mourner does not understand what is involved and once it is explained in a gentle way, they could be helped to find other final acts of love that would give them the closure they may be seeking. Or, if there are concerns about the strictness with which the chevra conducts a tahara, rather than putting the chevra in the totally unreasonable position of feeling judged by the presence of a family member, the family could be connected to a more Orthodox chevra who would no doubt follow the same guidelines, but with whom the family might feel more comfortable and trusting.

I truly believe that the work of the chevra is about love, and if we respond to the mourners with real understanding and love, the solutions will present themselves.

[edith_...@yahoo.com]

To continue what was inadvertently sent-

A son-in-law requested to be part of the Tahara team. He was so moved by the experience, that he has since joined the team.

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: edith_...@yahoo.com
Date: May 6, 2018 at 9:13:25 PM EDT
To: jewish-...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [jewish-funerals] Re: Please respond to this informal Poll!!

Sorry my response is late. Some years ago a son—

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2018, at 7:25 PM, 'Andy Gilmore' via jewish-funerals <jewish-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Good evening,  

I have read this thread with great interest.

I am aware that most, if not all of you are in the USA whereas I am in London England.  

I am a member of the United Synagogue men’s Chevra Kadisha.

The United Synagogue is the largest synagogue body in the Uk with over 60 synagogues.

Within the United Synagogue we follow the Shulchan Aruch which is pretty descriptive what family family can and can not take part/be present etc. at a Tahara.  

Post Tahara, upon request we will permit close family members to place earth on the deceased once in the coffin and in the shrouds. We will not allow them to open the shrouds. We are permit family members to put the lid on the casket and to bang the dowels into the coffin.  

I appreciate that my wording may sound over harsh and concur that in reality we have never been confrontational as I think it makes our lives easier my referring to scripture as opposed to implying that these are our rules.

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Apr 2018, at 06:05, Meirah <rabbi...@gmail.com> wrote:

was

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[Susan Barnes]

I thought everything you said here was great, except for the assumption that the family would be more likely to trust an Orthodox chevra. I, for one, would be much more likely to trust the chevra from my own community, and I suspect many families would feel the same, trusting members of their own community more than strangers to do this holy work, regardless of denomination.

 

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[Ilene Rubenstein]

I'm going to respond to both Susans. First, Susan Schwirck:

In my comments, I was mostly focusing on factors to take into account in deciding how a request will be responded do, rather than the logistics as to who would actually assume this role. I agree that dealing with potentially challenging requests such as family participation are often best handled by the Rabbi, but given the variety of chevra groups (synagogue based, those serving a broader community, etc.) this distinction of roles may or may not be best - or even possible. For my chevra, which is synagogue-based, the Rabbi is the mara d'atra who makes the final determinations regarding such decisions, but they are made in consultation with the leaders of the chevra.

Susan (Barnes)- I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I totally agree that those who do this work do it with the utmost kavanah regardless of denomination, and I also agree that most people would feel most comfortable with things being handled by their own community. I was responding to the specific example that was given in a previous post that alluded to a situation where the chevra sensed that the family member wanted to be present to "make sure" that everything was done "right". This would set up a completely unacceptable situation whereby volunteers would feel watched and judged. If the family, or even a family member, lacks full trust in the chevra, perhaps a referral to another group would be appropriate.