Are you on the way in or out?
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Jacob
Nov 20, 2009, 10:35:29 AM11/20/09
to Jesus On the Web
Some of us are pressing on to get to know Jesus better, to walk more
closely with Him, to do His will more perfectly, to bring honour and
glory to His name, etc. These are the ones who have had their hearts
sprinkled clean with the blood and have boldness to enter into the
holy of holies, who are seeking to enter more deeply into the heart of
God (He.10:19-22). Having been brought in by grace into the kingdom of
God they are striving to 'enter' more deeply in every sense of the
word (Lk.13:24).
Some of us, who also have entered into the kingdom through the same
grace as the others, are actually moving towards the way out. We may
not recognise it or acknowledge it, but we are getting farther away
from the centre of the kingdom as time goes on. We have lost the
initial thrill, things have become routine, other things have begun to
occupy prime time in our mind, we have become a little weary of having
to deny ourselves daily and we feel that we need to be able to indulge
ourselves a bit now and then, etc. We are on the way out.
Some of us like to think that even though we are not actually pressing
on towards the centre, we are more or less stable in our routines and
that there is no need for alarm. But here we are fooling ourselves. If
we are not actively moving in the direction of God, we are really on
the way out, whether we know it or not (Re.3:15,16). Pressures are
mounting up in this world. Even ordinary life is beginning to become a
fight for survival. On top of that Satan and his demons are on the
lookout to see how they can make us fall (1Pe.5:8). It is becoming
increasingly difficult to live in this world as Christians (2Ti.3:1
LB). Jesus warns us that we should watch and pray at all times if we
are to be able to 'escape' and 'stand' before Him at the end (Lk.
21:36).
There is no such thing as a complacent, easy going Christian life.
Those who think that they are 'saved' and 'headed for heaven' and
begin to take things easy and enjoy the (transient) pleasures of this
life as if everything is safe are going in for a rude shock. Without
the grace of God we will not have the strength to face the pressures
that are coming, and we will become an easy prey for the devil. It is
a myth to think that we can have a level, plateau like path once we
climb the small hill of repentance and faith and get 'saved.' No, what
we have come to is not salvation in its full sense but just
forgiveness of our sins and justification before God. There is a long
path ahead through battle zones, where we are going to have to deal
with the lusts in our flesh that try to pull us back into the old life
and attacks from Satan who tries to pull us away from God. This again
is an upward journey, and any time we think we can pause and take a
nap, we begin our slide downwards (1Co.10:12).
If we don't believe this, experience will teach us. But it is not so
pleasant to learn it the hard way, is it? And hopefully it won't be
too late.
closely with Him, to do His will more perfectly, to bring honour and
glory to His name, etc. These are the ones who have had their hearts
sprinkled clean with the blood and have boldness to enter into the
holy of holies, who are seeking to enter more deeply into the heart of
God (He.10:19-22). Having been brought in by grace into the kingdom of
God they are striving to 'enter' more deeply in every sense of the
word (Lk.13:24).
Some of us, who also have entered into the kingdom through the same
grace as the others, are actually moving towards the way out. We may
not recognise it or acknowledge it, but we are getting farther away
from the centre of the kingdom as time goes on. We have lost the
initial thrill, things have become routine, other things have begun to
occupy prime time in our mind, we have become a little weary of having
to deny ourselves daily and we feel that we need to be able to indulge
ourselves a bit now and then, etc. We are on the way out.
Some of us like to think that even though we are not actually pressing
on towards the centre, we are more or less stable in our routines and
that there is no need for alarm. But here we are fooling ourselves. If
we are not actively moving in the direction of God, we are really on
the way out, whether we know it or not (Re.3:15,16). Pressures are
mounting up in this world. Even ordinary life is beginning to become a
fight for survival. On top of that Satan and his demons are on the
lookout to see how they can make us fall (1Pe.5:8). It is becoming
increasingly difficult to live in this world as Christians (2Ti.3:1
LB). Jesus warns us that we should watch and pray at all times if we
are to be able to 'escape' and 'stand' before Him at the end (Lk.
21:36).
There is no such thing as a complacent, easy going Christian life.
Those who think that they are 'saved' and 'headed for heaven' and
begin to take things easy and enjoy the (transient) pleasures of this
life as if everything is safe are going in for a rude shock. Without
the grace of God we will not have the strength to face the pressures
that are coming, and we will become an easy prey for the devil. It is
a myth to think that we can have a level, plateau like path once we
climb the small hill of repentance and faith and get 'saved.' No, what
we have come to is not salvation in its full sense but just
forgiveness of our sins and justification before God. There is a long
path ahead through battle zones, where we are going to have to deal
with the lusts in our flesh that try to pull us back into the old life
and attacks from Satan who tries to pull us away from God. This again
is an upward journey, and any time we think we can pause and take a
nap, we begin our slide downwards (1Co.10:12).
If we don't believe this, experience will teach us. But it is not so
pleasant to learn it the hard way, is it? And hopefully it won't be
too late.
ON EARTH Ministries
Nov 20, 2009, 12:20:26 PM11/20/09
to jesus-th...@googlegroups.com
"If you're not busy being born, you're busy dying..."
Peace, and All Good Things,
Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
ON EARTH MINISTRIES
Peace, and All Good Things,
Brother Larry Roy Woodsmall
ON EARTH MINISTRIES
Mathew Enoch Mount
Nov 21, 2009, 2:32:43 AM11/21/09
to Jesus On the Web, johnk...@gmail.com
Hello,
Romans 7:7-25 basically says that Saint Paul does what he does not
want to do, and because he does not want to do those things but yet
does them anyway it is not him whom does them but instead it is sin
that lives inside of him that does those things. Consider then the
following passages that follows, "Therefore, there is now no
condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ
Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin
and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was
weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the
likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin
in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law
might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful
nature but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:1-4 (NIV) Overall, if
you read carefully, then you will find that Christ crucifixion on the
cross is what puts to death sin in us, and the way that it
accomplished this is not by removing sin but by removing our desire to
sin allowing the work of God to be produced in us.
If we thus sin, but our desires are not to sin then we become free
from sin through the spirit since it is not us that does those things
but sin that lives in us that does those things. Having said that if
Christ has imputed his righteousness into us causing our desires to
change, then we will never be condemned by God (this is the
righteousness apart from the law called faith). If we will never be
condemned by God, then we should never fear condemnation. If we fear
condemnation, then we have not yet been set free from sin.
Having said that we have been called for his good pleasure to be
destined for glory, and when God starts a work in someone he is
faithful and he is just to complete that work. If God is going to
complete a work in you, then why would you not trust that he would
complete that work? Yes the scripture does speak about those whom are
not fruitful being cut off, but if we have the promise of fruitfulness
as a result of sin no longer having any power over our desires because
of the righteousness of Christ changing our desires, then why be
afraid of what God is doing or what he is going to do?
If we make choices, and if the righteousness of Christ is in us
raining over sin, then is it us that makes those choices or is it
Christ whom lives within us that makes those choices? If it is Christ
whom lives within us that makes choices for us, then why be concerned
about choosing one thing or another? Rather when sin enslaves a
person they think only in terms of choices, duties, and such, and in
this case they often try to make the right choices, do the right
duties, and do everything correctly because they know that they do not
have righteousness and they are trying to obtain it. If we struggle
to obtain righteousness, then do we have it? No, and this is why only
God can save us and apart from God’s work in our life we can only have
idols that our hands make.
Can we make a choice that has its conclusion as eternal salvation,
NO. Can we do something in our life that causes us to be saved, NO.
Can we will ourselves to be saved, NO. Why then struggle to be
saved? Rather we should work to glorify God brining thanksgiving and
honor to him in order to express what we feel for what God has done in
our life, and in doing this God will bless us by bring us peace.
Thank you,
Mathew Enoch Mount
mmo...@essex1.com
Romans 7:7-25 basically says that Saint Paul does what he does not
want to do, and because he does not want to do those things but yet
does them anyway it is not him whom does them but instead it is sin
that lives inside of him that does those things. Consider then the
following passages that follows, "Therefore, there is now no
condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ
Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin
and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was
weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the
likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin
in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law
might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful
nature but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:1-4 (NIV) Overall, if
you read carefully, then you will find that Christ crucifixion on the
cross is what puts to death sin in us, and the way that it
accomplished this is not by removing sin but by removing our desire to
sin allowing the work of God to be produced in us.
If we thus sin, but our desires are not to sin then we become free
from sin through the spirit since it is not us that does those things
but sin that lives in us that does those things. Having said that if
Christ has imputed his righteousness into us causing our desires to
change, then we will never be condemned by God (this is the
righteousness apart from the law called faith). If we will never be
condemned by God, then we should never fear condemnation. If we fear
condemnation, then we have not yet been set free from sin.
Having said that we have been called for his good pleasure to be
destined for glory, and when God starts a work in someone he is
faithful and he is just to complete that work. If God is going to
complete a work in you, then why would you not trust that he would
complete that work? Yes the scripture does speak about those whom are
not fruitful being cut off, but if we have the promise of fruitfulness
as a result of sin no longer having any power over our desires because
of the righteousness of Christ changing our desires, then why be
afraid of what God is doing or what he is going to do?
If we make choices, and if the righteousness of Christ is in us
raining over sin, then is it us that makes those choices or is it
Christ whom lives within us that makes those choices? If it is Christ
whom lives within us that makes choices for us, then why be concerned
about choosing one thing or another? Rather when sin enslaves a
person they think only in terms of choices, duties, and such, and in
this case they often try to make the right choices, do the right
duties, and do everything correctly because they know that they do not
have righteousness and they are trying to obtain it. If we struggle
to obtain righteousness, then do we have it? No, and this is why only
God can save us and apart from God’s work in our life we can only have
idols that our hands make.
Can we make a choice that has its conclusion as eternal salvation,
NO. Can we do something in our life that causes us to be saved, NO.
Can we will ourselves to be saved, NO. Why then struggle to be
saved? Rather we should work to glorify God brining thanksgiving and
honor to him in order to express what we feel for what God has done in
our life, and in doing this God will bless us by bring us peace.
Thank you,
Mathew Enoch Mount
mmo...@essex1.com
Jacob
Nov 21, 2009, 10:08:01 PM11/21/09
to Jesus On the Web
Hello Matt,
Actually, the Christian life is a paradox if we think of it purely in
terms of a logical understanding of the Bible, because there is more
than one side to truth. We err when we try to take only one side, and
in effect neglect the other sides of the truth. One group says all is
of Christ and another group says all is of man. The final truth is not
in taking one of them and throwing out the other, but many times
holding to both in a way that goes not against logic but beyond logic.
Someone said that opposite sides of a truth are to be taken together.
The example he used is, if two sides of a truth are like two wings of
a bird, the bird needs both wings to fly.
We are in Christ, and He is working in us to accomplish His purposes.
At the same time there are also many things we also need to do to
abide in Him, to work out the salvation He is working in us, etc. If
it was all of Christ, all would be saved. If it was all of us, none
would get saved. But when we respond to what Christ does, we get
saved.
What am I saying in my original post? (We have a tendency to stray
away from the original post and get on to tangents.) It is possible
for us to stray away from Christ after we have come to Him. So we need
to press on towards Him even as He works in us.
Best regards,
Jacob
> > too late.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, the Christian life is a paradox if we think of it purely in
terms of a logical understanding of the Bible, because there is more
than one side to truth. We err when we try to take only one side, and
in effect neglect the other sides of the truth. One group says all is
of Christ and another group says all is of man. The final truth is not
in taking one of them and throwing out the other, but many times
holding to both in a way that goes not against logic but beyond logic.
Someone said that opposite sides of a truth are to be taken together.
The example he used is, if two sides of a truth are like two wings of
a bird, the bird needs both wings to fly.
We are in Christ, and He is working in us to accomplish His purposes.
At the same time there are also many things we also need to do to
abide in Him, to work out the salvation He is working in us, etc. If
it was all of Christ, all would be saved. If it was all of us, none
would get saved. But when we respond to what Christ does, we get
saved.
What am I saying in my original post? (We have a tendency to stray
away from the original post and get on to tangents.) It is possible
for us to stray away from Christ after we have come to Him. So we need
to press on towards Him even as He works in us.
Best regards,
Jacob
>
> - Show quoted text -
Stoneracket
Nov 22, 2009, 10:36:33 PM11/22/09
to Jesus On the Web
I have been saved, I am being saved and I will be saved: the Paradigm
of Salvation.
When we speak of salvation sometimes this term can confuse and also be
confused. There are three tenses to the concept of salvation: a past
tense, a present tense and a future tense.
The past tense of salvation is justification. Justification is a gift
from God of everlasting life that's received by faith alone in Christ
Jesus alone. Once you have accepted Christ into your life as your
personal Lord and Saviour, your passage to Heaven is permanently
assured. You are declared by God as 'not guilty' immediately. You
haven't changed at this instance of faith -- yet God sees you as not
guilty due to the fact that His only begotten Son has already paid the
price in full with His own shed blood for your passage to Eternity.
Jesus Christ has paid for all of our sins and His sacrifice on the
cross is a work that is perfect and complete. There is nothing we can
add to Christ's work on the cross and if we attempt to do so we commit
blasphemy.
The present tense of salvation is sanctification. Each and every one
of us are a work in progress, for the Lord has not finished with us
personally at the moment of our faith and acceptance of Him.
Sanctification is a progressive work that involves our faith and the
works of the Holy Spirit through us in our walk with Christ. Our works
are not contributing to our justification! Our works simply manifest
the sanctification that is proceeding within us by the Holy Spirit.
The future tense of salvation is glorification. Glorification is the
result of justification and sanctification where we are separated from
the presence of sin. We are all destined for a new body in a new
existence that is beyond our comprehension. Not all will have the same
degree of glorification and this involves what is known as a loss of
reward or inheritance. This is what Paul was so concerned about in I
Cor. 9:27.
Please note that Paul wasn't worried about his eternal security - to
wit: Romans chapter 8. My own favorite Scripture on eternal security
is John 10:27-30 where this blessed assurance comes directly from
Jesus Christ. I have been saved, I am being saved and I will be saved.
We're not saved by by making promises to God. We're saved by believing
the promises He's given us.
of Salvation.
When we speak of salvation sometimes this term can confuse and also be
confused. There are three tenses to the concept of salvation: a past
tense, a present tense and a future tense.
The past tense of salvation is justification. Justification is a gift
from God of everlasting life that's received by faith alone in Christ
Jesus alone. Once you have accepted Christ into your life as your
personal Lord and Saviour, your passage to Heaven is permanently
assured. You are declared by God as 'not guilty' immediately. You
haven't changed at this instance of faith -- yet God sees you as not
guilty due to the fact that His only begotten Son has already paid the
price in full with His own shed blood for your passage to Eternity.
Jesus Christ has paid for all of our sins and His sacrifice on the
cross is a work that is perfect and complete. There is nothing we can
add to Christ's work on the cross and if we attempt to do so we commit
blasphemy.
The present tense of salvation is sanctification. Each and every one
of us are a work in progress, for the Lord has not finished with us
personally at the moment of our faith and acceptance of Him.
Sanctification is a progressive work that involves our faith and the
works of the Holy Spirit through us in our walk with Christ. Our works
are not contributing to our justification! Our works simply manifest
the sanctification that is proceeding within us by the Holy Spirit.
The future tense of salvation is glorification. Glorification is the
result of justification and sanctification where we are separated from
the presence of sin. We are all destined for a new body in a new
existence that is beyond our comprehension. Not all will have the same
degree of glorification and this involves what is known as a loss of
reward or inheritance. This is what Paul was so concerned about in I
Cor. 9:27.
Please note that Paul wasn't worried about his eternal security - to
wit: Romans chapter 8. My own favorite Scripture on eternal security
is John 10:27-30 where this blessed assurance comes directly from
Jesus Christ. I have been saved, I am being saved and I will be saved.
We're not saved by by making promises to God. We're saved by believing
the promises He's given us.
Mathew Enoch Mount
Nov 23, 2009, 4:37:22 AM11/23/09
to Jesus On the Web
Hello,
I do not necessarily disagree with you about Justification,
sanctification, and glorification as well as the doctrine of eternal
security, but I must make one thing clear. When Jesus asked the
twelve whom he was some gave various answers, but Peter said that he
was Christ the son of the living God. Christ then blessed Peter not
because of what he said but because it was reveled to him by the
Father in heaven and then he warned the people not to tell anyone else
whom he was. The point is that it is not by our efforts that we judge
God and are saved, but instead it is by God loving us first by
communing with us to show himself to us. When we have communion with
God in his blood (I am not talking about physical communion), then we
will know the father because it is that blood of Christ that we had
been purchased by. Overall, it would be a utter failure of God to
purchase the entire world with his blood and then loose even one of
them, and that is why he did not purchase everyone in the world with
blood because God does not make mistakes (he only purchased those whom
he planed to redeem).
It is easy to quote theologians and theology and even say all kinds of
truthful stuff about Jesus Christ, but unless the birth, death, and
resurrection of Jesus Christ is being made real in us, then people
have no reason to believe that we are saved. Not only that but if our
faith does not produce any type of spiritual fruit at all, then it is
a eternally accursed thing. Not only that but you will find that a
slave girl followed Saint Paul around and basically said, "these men
are servants of the most High God whom are hear to tell of how to be
saved", and to that Saint Paul drove the spirit out as perhaps many so
called evangelists should have such a spirit driven out of them.
Overall, If Jesus is groveling at your feet awaiting you to accept him
into your heart, then I can assure you that he is not Jesus at all but
the devil (God does not need to grovel at the feet of anyone because
he is God). (Do not overemphasize me words because I never the less
acknowledge the incredible humility of Jesus Christ).
I do not necessarily disagree with you about Justification,
sanctification, and glorification as well as the doctrine of eternal
security, but I must make one thing clear. When Jesus asked the
twelve whom he was some gave various answers, but Peter said that he
was Christ the son of the living God. Christ then blessed Peter not
because of what he said but because it was reveled to him by the
Father in heaven and then he warned the people not to tell anyone else
whom he was. The point is that it is not by our efforts that we judge
God and are saved, but instead it is by God loving us first by
communing with us to show himself to us. When we have communion with
God in his blood (I am not talking about physical communion), then we
will know the father because it is that blood of Christ that we had
been purchased by. Overall, it would be a utter failure of God to
purchase the entire world with his blood and then loose even one of
them, and that is why he did not purchase everyone in the world with
blood because God does not make mistakes (he only purchased those whom
he planed to redeem).
It is easy to quote theologians and theology and even say all kinds of
truthful stuff about Jesus Christ, but unless the birth, death, and
resurrection of Jesus Christ is being made real in us, then people
have no reason to believe that we are saved. Not only that but if our
faith does not produce any type of spiritual fruit at all, then it is
a eternally accursed thing. Not only that but you will find that a
slave girl followed Saint Paul around and basically said, "these men
are servants of the most High God whom are hear to tell of how to be
saved", and to that Saint Paul drove the spirit out as perhaps many so
called evangelists should have such a spirit driven out of them.
Overall, If Jesus is groveling at your feet awaiting you to accept him
into your heart, then I can assure you that he is not Jesus at all but
the devil (God does not need to grovel at the feet of anyone because
he is God). (Do not overemphasize me words because I never the less
acknowledge the incredible humility of Jesus Christ).
Stoneracket
Nov 23, 2009, 8:21:38 PM11/23/09
to Jesus On the Web
Hello, Brother Matthew!
So I gather your disagreement lies with that old chestnut involving
predestination or free will? The Scriptures teach both, but it is
dependent on whose perspective or dimension is involved. God inhabits
Eternity and so He is outside our space-time dimension ( but He can
enter it and has entered it at will, of course! ). He already knows
how we'll choose when confronted with the Truth of Christ:
"[God] hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not
according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace,
which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Tim.
1:9)
But viewed only from our limited, mortal perspective within our
current space-time dimension, it's our own free choice. For there is
one thing God cannot do: He can't make us love Him. It is our choice
how we'll respond to the Gospel of Christ. Either we accept the Truth
of Christ or we reject it .... at our peril, of course.
Isn't it interesting that even though God knew us completely, and how
we would respond to His only begotten Son, before the foundation of
the Universe He also knew that in the end He wouldn't get what He
wanted? Even after He became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the
cross for all sins past, present and future -- God doesn't get what He
wants when we read in 2 Peter 3:9 --
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count
slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should
perish, but that all should come to repentance."
I praise the Father to the highest that by His grace I came to the
knowledge of His Son, Jesus Christ. I totally reject man's 'truth' and
man's quaint philosophies. I only embrace the Truth of Jesus Christ.
He is the author and perfecter of my faith and without Christ I am
nothing. Amen!
So I gather your disagreement lies with that old chestnut involving
predestination or free will? The Scriptures teach both, but it is
dependent on whose perspective or dimension is involved. God inhabits
Eternity and so He is outside our space-time dimension ( but He can
enter it and has entered it at will, of course! ). He already knows
how we'll choose when confronted with the Truth of Christ:
"[God] hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not
according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace,
which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Tim.
1:9)
But viewed only from our limited, mortal perspective within our
current space-time dimension, it's our own free choice. For there is
one thing God cannot do: He can't make us love Him. It is our choice
how we'll respond to the Gospel of Christ. Either we accept the Truth
of Christ or we reject it .... at our peril, of course.
Isn't it interesting that even though God knew us completely, and how
we would respond to His only begotten Son, before the foundation of
the Universe He also knew that in the end He wouldn't get what He
wanted? Even after He became flesh and dwelt among us and died on the
cross for all sins past, present and future -- God doesn't get what He
wants when we read in 2 Peter 3:9 --
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count
slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should
perish, but that all should come to repentance."
I praise the Father to the highest that by His grace I came to the
knowledge of His Son, Jesus Christ. I totally reject man's 'truth' and
man's quaint philosophies. I only embrace the Truth of Jesus Christ.
He is the author and perfecter of my faith and without Christ I am
nothing. Amen!
mmo...@essex1.com
Nov 24, 2009, 12:47:49 AM11/24/09
to jesus-th...@googlegroups.com
Hello,
Yes the scripture does teach both predestination and free will, but my case
has been that the persons of God experience time and space differently because
Christ is inside of time and space (this was for example necessary for his
ministry) and God the Father is outside of them both (this is why he has
historically been so unapproachable). I have a twenty-five page Paper about
free will and predestination worked out in terms of the perception of the
persons of the Trinity, and it employs about 60+ key Trinitarian verses.
Larry has read the paper in its entirety, and I would be willing to offer it
to you as well "you may even be able to rebuke it." I however must warn you
that it was made for a Junior level philosophy class in Metaphysics because so
called, "church people" would not take seriously what I had to say, and as a
result it uses the language of the fields of both Epistemology and Metaphysics.
The link is as follows.
http://groups.google.com/group/jesus-the-
christ/browse_thread/thread/f7279d78c3fcc007?hl=en#
------- Original Message -------
From : Stoneracket[mailto:stone...@hotmail.com]
Sent : 11/23/2009 7:21:38 PM
To : jesus-th...@googlegroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Are you on the way in or out?
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Yes the scripture does teach both predestination and free will, but my case
has been that the persons of God experience time and space differently because
Christ is inside of time and space (this was for example necessary for his
ministry) and God the Father is outside of them both (this is why he has
historically been so unapproachable). I have a twenty-five page Paper about
free will and predestination worked out in terms of the perception of the
persons of the Trinity, and it employs about 60+ key Trinitarian verses.
Larry has read the paper in its entirety, and I would be willing to offer it
to you as well "you may even be able to rebuke it." I however must warn you
that it was made for a Junior level philosophy class in Metaphysics because so
called, "church people" would not take seriously what I had to say, and as a
result it uses the language of the fields of both Epistemology and Metaphysics.
The link is as follows.
http://groups.google.com/group/jesus-the-
christ/browse_thread/thread/f7279d78c3fcc007?hl=en#
------- Original Message -------
From : Stoneracket[mailto:stone...@hotmail.com]
Sent : 11/23/2009 7:21:38 PM
To : jesus-th...@googlegroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: Are you on the way in or out?
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