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On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 3:33 PM, nicolas de loof
<nicolas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the exposed yaml model to
> configure credentials should be defined as part of credential plugin, not by
> me within configuration-as-code.
Well. JCasC likely needs some special handling for `Secret`, which
`credentials` uses for the actual secrets inside. Beyond that, I agree
that it makes sense for the specialized binding to ultimately live in
`credentials-plugin`.
But I take issue with two ways this was framed. First of all, there is
nothing wrong with the design of credentials storage; it is sensible
given the expected usage model. JCasC makes it easy to autobind
configuration that lives all in one configuration screen. In this
case, the UI is divided into different screens with a specialized UI,
so specialized binding would be needed.
Second, yes it needs to be defined “by you” (well, by whomever is
striving to get JEP-201 accepted). Credentials are central to Jenkins
setup and a critical use case for JEP-201. And JEP-201 is a new
feature, so its developers are responsible for designing and
implementing appropriate integrations with existing foundational
components of Jenkins.
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Nicolas,Moving things to a separate JEP makes sense is some cases but it doesn't sound like the works here. The design choices that need to be made in relation to credentials CasC will effect the design of the JEP-201. Many plugins could be done in later JEPs, but for concepts as key as Credentials they would at least need to be concurrent JEPs and would need to be owned
Putting all that aside (as that is not the original point of this thread), the original suggestion was to include a version field in the CasC YAML. You said it would not work because the version would have to take into account the core version and versions of all plugins, otherwise it might break. Does that mean the CasC YAML could break _any time_ I upgrade any component? Doesn't that rather defeats the purpose of CasC?
If anything all this strengthens the argument for having at least a top-level version field that guarantees some level of compatibility (perhaps at Jenkins Core API level). It further suggests that the CasC needs to include some guidance/structure for talking about CasC YAML changes. "No glue code" sounds great from a code/plugin-developer perspective, but it is sounding more and more like a anti-feature from user perspective.
For v1.0, I suppose one could argue that this is a needed design choice to ship in non-infinite time, but that doesn't mean it can be completely ignored. Some thought will still need to be given to how to ease this pain or at least measure and clearly communicate how often breaks would have occurred in the last year if CasC had been around.
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To be honest, I can't see any benefit in short terms to introduce this just because at some time we might wish to change casc-plugin handling of _some_ metadata that would introduce a breaking change.At the time such a thing actually happens, we could easily introduce a top level "version: 2" pseudo-property so unlock such a breaking change (just like docker-compose did by the way).
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And in case you say: it’ll never happen, I had a case of starting up an older Jenkins image against a newer home volume (by mistake) where the xml version bump from 1.0 to 1.1 saved me (by refusing to start)... twice this week (ok we are running testing against different versions of Jenkins and forgot to wipe the home volume in between... but this prevented trying to diagnose failed tests by not even running them)Please reconsider.
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+1 on adding the version tag.Useful to properly evolve the API, including breaking changes, sometimes needed to keep a minimum of code sanity.
On 8 June 2018 at 17:19, Jeff Thompson <jtho...@cloudbees.com> wrote:
On Jun 8, 2018, at 12:05 AM, Stephen Connolly <stephen.al...@gmail.com> wrote:And in case you say: it’ll never happen, I had a case of starting up an older Jenkins image against a newer home volume (by mistake) where the xml version bump from 1.0 to 1.1 saved me (by refusing to start)... twice this week (ok we are running testing against different versions of Jenkins and forgot to wipe the home volume in between... but this prevented trying to diagnose failed tests by not even running them)Please reconsider.+1I’ve experienced far too many situations when what should have never happened did. Often when I was most confident they wouldn’t.This suggestion is a simple improvement, which can be used to catch situations like Stephen describes and provide future flexibility.Jeff Thompson
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+1 to have a versioning, but also a deprecation and support remove policy, I mean if over the time, you have ten scheme versions, you would to maintain 10 potential different behaviors per configuration option. Backwards compatible forever is a nightmare.
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configuration-as-code:
version: 1
deprecation: warn
restricted: warn