Hey folks,As we've been discussing that again on IRC recently, we thought it might be a good time to discuss that subject again. Latest thread about that I could find is already 18+ months old.In the meantime, Java 7 has now long been EOLed since mid 2015 (see https://java.com/en/download/faq/java_7.xml for details).
Also, many if not all of us very often advise users to just use Java 8 everytime they can to run Jenkins. We use it to build Jenkins (though generating 7 bytecode).Not EOLed, removed PermGen, Lambdas, Default Methods, etc., many reasons to update to JDK 8 from the Ops and Dev perspectives.IMO, it's time to move on. Jenkins can very easily use another JDK version for builds, so I don't think there're compelling reasons to keep supporting Java 7.The common argument that "big" companies won't then be able to use Jenkins anymore just does not hold IMO for at least two reasons: we know some very big shops just using Jenkins with Java 8 without any issue, and the most conservative companies are anyway, as always, probably still running already (very) old versions of Jenkins. They will just catch that train later.WDYT?
---- Baptiste
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> On 13.10.2016, at 20:36, Arnaud Héritier <aher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just don't like to have such change in a minor release.
We already did it in 1.612.
The evil job type is a good point. Could Stephen or someone else who knows what they're talking about document how to circumvent this limitation with toolchains or something?
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Just dont use the evil one
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On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Daniel Beck <m...@beckweb.net> wrote:
> On 13.10.2016, at 20:36, Arnaud Héritier <aher...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just don't like to have such change in a minor release.
We already did it in 1.612.Yes and in 1.520 for Java 6. I tried to explain/document it on the plugin page : https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/Maven+Project+Plugin
The evil job type is a good point. Could Stephen or someone else who knows what they're talking about document how to circumvent this limitation with toolchains or something?https://support.cloudbees.com/hc/en-us/articles/217517477-Maven-jobs-and-Java-versions-compatibilityI wrote it. I wanted to push it on OSS side but I don't know where :( The problem is that there is no obvious place to do this.On the wiki page of the plugin ?
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Jenkins still has guice-beta that randomly fails under java8.
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I have no stacktrace and test case as we replaced guice to released version in our custom build. Will do of course when get again, but PR in core is blocked only by maven-plugin release.
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ROR
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One more thing https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/JENKINS-37080
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Jenkins can require Java 8, but needs to support building arbitrary Java project, even jdk 1.0 ;)
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... or rely on tool chain, that has been designed to cover this exact issue.
Didn't we had this debate few days ago ?
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Yes, but aren't we then back to the point, Arnaud: anyway, places/companies where cost must be 0 are not going to upgrade to new Jenkins version anyway?
And when they're forced to upgrade at some point, in the meantime they're likely to have also been forced to upgrade the Jdk from 7 to 8 on those projects? Should we block the OSS project because, say, <30% of users won't upgrade? If so, then why not, but how long? Since that category of users basically only upgrades when forced to anyway?
IMO, we could just define some future arbitrary date to give time to everybody if we agree this is time. For example, announce on the blog and everywhere we can that the first weekly version of 2017 (or some later date) will be on java 8 min. This would give time for users to upgrade, and possibly for the plugin to be improved wrt the multi-jdk support, by OSS maintainers and/or companies who want to help theirs customers with this upgrade.
WDYT?
From my POV the problem is that we don't know if we are talking about 5% or 50% :(
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Any chance of getting a the manage nodes screen changed to include the java version for that agent, in advance of forcing Java 8 in the weekly builds?
That would at least make it simpler for folks like myself to know the scale of the upcoming impact.
Thanks,
Kelly Hickel
From: jenkin...@googlegroups.com [mailto:jenkin...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen Connolly
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 8:37 AM
To: jenkin...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Time for Jenkins to require Java 8 to run
I think we should say "the first LTS of 2017 will require Java 8. End of conversation"
That will mean that weekly releases should switch to Java 8 by mid-end November.
2017 it's a new year, it's a new Java version.
We could look to solve some of the evil job type issues by *forking* remoting into the evil plugin and using animal-sniffer to keep plugins "pure"
On Saturday 29 October 2016, Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net> wrote:
2016-10-29 14:52 GMT+02:00 Arnaud Héritier <aher...@gmail.com>:
From my POV the problem is that we don't know if we are talking about 5% or 50% :(
- Java 8 as runtime represents 52% of the 133505 instances out there (yes, it's ignoring the opted-out ones)
- Maven-plugin is installed 118711 times (yes, ignoring on purpose the fact it was auto-installed up to 2.x)
- So, at most it's 46% of the users base who might be impacted here, if they were to upgrade in the very short term (that is: while also still using an EoLed JDK7 durably).
Now, looking at the trend of the number of installs of that plugin, my guts feeling is that is less than that. And if you add that to the trend of Java 7 JVM users (see link above), then it is most probably going down even quicker.
An example I have in mind is my previous company, pretty sure they didn't upgrade to Jenkins 2.x yet, so they still contribute to that stats, but we migrated off that plugins years ago after so many headaches and hours spent to debug different behaviours between Maven CLI and using it in Jenkins.
Correlating with http://stats.jenkins.io/plugin-installation-trend/jenkins-version-per-plugin-version.json I think we would have even more data, but seems like that data is wrong.
Gonna find the one who contributed that and hit him (I know him pretty well).
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Jenkins can require Java 8, but needs to support building arbitrary Java project, even jdk 1.0 ;)
Le 29 oct. 2016 1:40 AM, "Martina" <martina...@gmail.com> a écrit :
btw. game-of-life that we all dearly love for demos only runs with jdk7, not jdk 8, at least the master branch does. https://github.com/CloudBees-community/game-of-life--
Not sure how/where to report it, so I'm guessing that the right powers-to-be see this one.
- Martina
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Hey,
Please file an issue in the repo, or a PR. I was able to build the repo without an issue with Java 8, so this will need clarification...
Thanks
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mvn jetty:run
. The application will be running on http://localhost:9090.To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CANWgJS6UaAVx4EdsdQoYbR%2B8jR_CvpnmoSS6vMkCUreqQ%3DU__g%40mail.gmail.com.
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- As the next LTS/2.32 is already chosen, I guess the 2.32.1 should be out early January (or late December?)
- Which means, the next baseline choice should happen around March or April.
Hence, we could decide to switch to JDK8 baseline for the first weekly of 2017? Or do you think it's a too short notice?
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- Month 0: Announce the intention publicly, with this plan attached.
- Month 3: Drop support for Jenkins weekly. Declare what LTS will be the last one to support the think we are dropping. Since we gave people time to get prepared, we do not have to try hard to prolong the support in LTS branch. IOW, I see no reason to do whole new LTS line after the support was dropped for weeklies.
- Month 3-5: LTS.1 with support dropped is released.
- Month 12?: In case of Java, encourage the use from plugins / use it as default. Extending the support in plugins allow people to consume plugin updates/fixes after upstream has dropped support without upgrading Java. This is especially subtle as IIRC plugin manager offers plugin updates (perhaps even core ones) that require newer Java version than the one installed on master, and there is no guarantee plugin that needs Java 8 require core with same requirement.
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I am -1000 on this.The code does not pass tests on windows. Using java8 you force me to use a Virtual machine which sucks.
Using Windows subsystem for Linux gets you ubuntu 14.04 which does not have native support for JDK8.
@James, so can you please give us an update of the current state about this?My understanding is the following below, can you confirm/complete?2016-12-07 13:01 GMT+01:00 James Nord <jn...@cloudbees.com>:I am -1000 on this.The code does not pass tests on windows. Using java8 you force me to use a Virtual machine which sucks.So, IIUC, the tests are actually already failing with JDK7.
So though I agree this is important to fix (and Alex provided an interested feedback about that, thanks Alex!), I guess this isn't a criterion for JDK7=>JDK8 upgrade, right?
Using Windows subsystem for Linux gets you ubuntu 14.04 which does not have native support for JDK8.If the first reason is actually fixable, does it make that second one still actual? My understanding is no, because w/o Linux specific tests, you would be able to work without falling back to using the VM subsystem.
And even if so, IIRC, we found there was apparently a (currently) Beta program when one could get 16.04, hence JDK8, right?
In that case, it should/could appear reasonable then because in the meantime of the actual baseline upgrade (D+3 Months for weeklies as per Oliver's proposal) that Beta could possibly have graduated to GA (if it hasn't already?).
IOW, do you still have any reason to want to block that baseline upgrade, or are you now fine with it?
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