This sounds like a solid first pass to me, worth trying out for a month or so to see how it goes.
I'm also interested in helping, so put me on the list!
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If that is a common practice, then we can skip setting the assignee and focus on component assignment and reproducibility, or we can have a "whitelist" of plugins that we set assignee for. The goal isn't to make things harder for maintainers, we want to help as much as possible by funneling things to the correct place. If there is something else that would be more helpful, or an additional scope, please bring it up.
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On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:51 PM Slide <slide...@gmail.com> wrote:If that is a common practice, then we can skip setting the assignee and focus on component assignment and reproducibility, or we can have a "whitelist" of plugins that we set assignee for. The goal isn't to make things harder for maintainers, we want to help as much as possible by funneling things to the correct place. If there is something else that would be more helpful, or an additional scope, please bring it up.Confirming that bugs are repeatable is very valuable. I feel like I've wasted time on many occasions trying to verify poorly phrased bug reports. Recently I've become more direct (harsh) and less willing to spend time trying to duplicate a poorly phrased bug report.
Cem Kaner's online course "Bug Advocacy" is a great introduction to effective bug reporting...Mark Waite
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:48 PM Mark Waite <mark.ea...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:11 PM Jesse Glick <jgl...@cloudbees.com> wrote:On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Slide <slide...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The outcome of a triage on a specific issue would be that the correct
> component(s) and assignee were there.
Do we really need to set an assignee? For example for most
`{workflow,pipeline}-*-plugin` components there is intentionally no
default assignee. If and when someone intends to work on a fix, they
can assign to themselves.
As further support for what Jesse says, please don't assign me as an owner for bugs in the git plugin or the git client plugin during the triage process, unless you're willing to accept that I'll immediately remove that assignment and return them to "Unassigned".Mark Waite
I only assign bugs to myself when I want to indicate that I'm working on them, or intending to work on them "soon". I use the list of bugs assigned to me as a reminder of active work, not as another way of expressing the component name.
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I think this is not the common practice. Wouldn’t it be better to use the in progress transition for such issues?When I create an issue and see that there is no assignee it gives me the feeling that I should not have spent the time in creating the issue since nobody actually is interested in fixing it (or responding to it). (As a user I don’t know that the component owner does use the assignee field differently then the rest.)
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Am 20.01.2017 um 01:21 schrieb Mark Waite <mark.ea...@gmail.com>:On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 1:59 PM Ullrich Hafner <ullrich...@gmail.com> wrote:I think this is not the common practice. Wouldn’t it be better to use the in progress transition for such issues?When I create an issue and see that there is no assignee it gives me the feeling that I should not have spent the time in creating the issue since nobody actually is interested in fixing it (or responding to it). (As a user I don’t know that the component owner does use the assignee field differently then the rest.)In my case, I'm one maintainer with 400+ bugs assigned across the two plugins I maintain. If someone assigns all the bugs for the git plugin and the git client plugin to me, "assignee" will no longer be a useful field to me and I will ignore it. I already ignore severity and several other fields, so that isn't a big problem. I'd then maintain a record of my "working set" somewhere else. It will probably be less visible to others, since I won't necessarily try to use Jira to maintain it. I'm fine with maintaining my "working set" elsewhere, I only use Jira for the working set because I'm already there reading bug reports.
I acknowledge that I'm an exception (since the git plugin and the git client plugin are second only to the Subversion plugin in the total count of bugs open against them), but since Jesse noted that others use the same assignment process which I use, I may not be as much of an exception as you think.
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Am 20.01.2017 um 08:16 schrieb Stephen Connolly <stephen.al...@gmail.com>:I also would love if we cleared out the assignee setting entirely.
There are loads of plugins were somebody else has taken up (great) but I still get assigned the issue.
I'd rather use assignee to track actually picking up the issue. Status to track triage state.Esp in credentials (which I have been repeatedly and actively scrubbing) use of assignee also helps identify when somebody starts working on the issue.
Ideally the status would have a state to indicate that the JIRA has been accepted as a bug.
Another status to indicate that it is ready to be worked on would be awesome
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Am 20.01.2017 um 08:16 schrieb Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com>:I also would love if we cleared out the assignee setting entirely.How do we identify who is responsible for the issue (or who is the owner)? If there is no assignee then nobody gets notified about new bug reports or issue updates (if you are not watching an issue).
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Am 20.01.2017 um 08:16 schrieb Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com>:I also would love if we cleared out the assignee setting entirely.How do we identify who is responsible for the issue (or who is the owner)? If there is no assignee then nobody gets notified about new bug reports or issue updates (if you are not watching an issue).
There are loads of plugins were somebody else has taken up (great) but I still get assigned the issue.Then we should set the default assignee accordingly.
I'd rather use assignee to track actually picking up the issue. Status to track triage state.Esp in credentials (which I have been repeatedly and actively scrubbing) use of assignee also helps identify when somebody starts working on the issue.There is a status in progress which we have activated in Jira for such a use case.
Ideally the status would have a state to indicate that the JIRA has been accepted as a bug.This makes sense. Currently we have no idea if a developer has accepted a bug report as valid. Since no assignee is attached to most of the new issues the reporter has no clue to see if the bug has been recognized or not.We are using in several other projects an additional initial Jira status ’New’. This status indicates that the bug has been created, but it has not yet been confirmed by the developer team that it is valid. From ‚New‘ there is a transition to ‚Open‘: this transition can be used by our new triage team to indicate that the issue has been reviewed and accepted as a bug. This transition should only be started if the issue is reproducible and if all information are provided. The triage team then could have a filter on all ’New’ issues to see what needs to be reviewed.Another status to indicate that it is ready to be worked on would be awesome'In Progress' is already available: https://confluence.atlassian.com/adminjiraserver071/working-with-workflows-802592661.html
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Am 20.01.2017 um 08:16 schrieb Stephen Connolly <stephen.alan.connolly@gmail.com>:I also would love if we cleared out the assignee setting entirely.How do we identify who is responsible for the issue (or who is the owner)? If there is no assignee then nobody gets notified about new bug reports or issue updates (if you are not watching an issue).There are loads of plugins were somebody else has taken up (great) but I still get assigned the issue.Then we should set the default assignee accordingly.I'd rather use assignee to track actually picking up the issue. Status to track triage state.Esp in credentials (which I have been repeatedly and actively scrubbing) use of assignee also helps identify when somebody starts working on the issue.There is a status in progress which we have activated in Jira for such a use case.Ideally the status would have a state to indicate that the JIRA has been accepted as a bug.This makes sense. Currently we have no idea if a developer has accepted a bug report as valid. Since no assignee is attached to most of the new issues the reporter has no clue to see if the bug has been recognized or not.We are using in several other projects an additional initial Jira status ’New’. This status indicates that the bug has been created, but it has not yet been confirmed by the developer team that it is valid. From ‚New‘ there is a transition to ‚Open‘: this transition can be used by our new triage team to indicate that the issue has been reviewed and accepted as a bug. This transition should only be started if the issue is reproducible and if all information are provided. The triage team then could have a filter on all ’New’ issues to see what needs to be reviewed.Another status to indicate that it is ready to be worked on would be awesome'In Progress' is already available: https://confluence.atlassian.com/adminjiraserver071/working-with-workflows-802592661.html
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I see, the discussion seems to indicate that we have (at least two) different kind of development processes. I’m not sure if I can summarize it properly:We have plugins with one main developer who takes the responsibility for all new issues. Even if the issue is not solved immediately these issues should be assigned here to the component lead (which should be a good practice to set via the IRC bot anyway) to mark the responsible person for this issue.Then we have plugins (and core?) with one or more developers: here nobody is responsible for an issue in the beginning. If there is time for fixing an issue available then a team member is picking an interesting issue with no assignee, assigns the issue and starts work on it. All unassigned issues are waiting to be fixed by either a team member *or* a volunteer.So I think the only way to make a bug reporter think that somebody really cares about an issue is to introduce this new status in the beginning (before Open). Then the triage team or the component lead can verify this issue and ping the reporter for additional information. If this issue will be finally accepted then it is moved to Open. In this step we can either remove the assignee or not (depending on the component lead). Then the reporter sees that his bug report has been accepted: if there is no assignee set, then the reporter also sees that nobody yet has the time to fix it and it would be good to provide a PR by someone else (including the reporter).
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Am 21.01.2017 um 15:07 schrieb Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net>:+1 for no assignee by default and adding the NEW status
Having a state to basically say: "this is issue is new, but has not been reviewed, so may be invalid/incomplete/whatever for whatever reason" makes sense IMO. And that the Triage team could use for, well, triaging.Also, I'm trying to think about what the "default assignee" way of working right sends as message. It may push back some ppl willing to contribute,
or "send" the wrong message with essentially newcomers (which are probably the majority) thinking basically when seeing an assignee "cool, someone is looking into that" which is generally (90% of the time?) wrong.
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Am 21.01.2017 um 15:07 schrieb Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net>:+1 for no assignee by default and adding the NEW statusHaving a state to basically say: "this is issue is new, but has not been reviewed, so may be invalid/incomplete/whatever for whatever reason" makes sense IMO. And that the Triage team could use for, well, triaging.Also, I'm trying to think about what the "default assignee" way of working right sends as message. It may push back some ppl willing to contribute,Why would this push back people? A default assignee (as Atlassian defines it) is a person who is responsible for an issue, i.e. the owner (not identical to the person fixing it).
or "send" the wrong message with essentially newcomers (which are probably the majority) thinking basically when seeing an assignee "cool, someone is looking into that" which is generally (90% of the time?) wrong.I think the opposite message is also wrong: ohh, no assignee, that means nobody cares about my bug report:-( I think the majority of users reporting a bug is not interested in fixing it on their own.(And a side note: as a user of a professional software system (especially one that is used to improve the quality of software) I would expect that most of the issues are going to be solved by the team, not only 10%. But this would be a topic for another discussion: how can we close the gap between new and resolved issues...)
I love the idea of the TRIAGE team, thanks a lot Slide for that. I will try to help a bit (though I should already start by being back to more activity on the HOSTING project front).
2017-01-21 0:32 GMT+01:00 Ullrich Hafner <ullrich...@gmail.com>:
I see, the discussion seems to indicate that we have (at least two) different kind of development processes. I’m not sure if I can summarize it properly:We have plugins with one main developer who takes the responsibility for all new issues. Even if the issue is not solved immediately these issues should be assigned here to the component lead (which should be a good practice to set via the IRC bot anyway) to mark the responsible person for this issue.Then we have plugins (and core?) with one or more developers: here nobody is responsible for an issue in the beginning. If there is time for fixing an issue available then a team member is picking an interesting issue with no assignee, assigns the issue and starts work on it. All unassigned issues are waiting to be fixed by either a team member *or* a volunteer.So I think the only way to make a bug reporter think that somebody really cares about an issue is to introduce this new status in the beginning (before Open). Then the triage team or the component lead can verify this issue and ping the reporter for additional information. If this issue will be finally accepted then it is moved to Open. In this step we can either remove the assignee or not (depending on the component lead). Then the reporter sees that his bug report has been accepted: if there is no assignee set, then the reporter also sees that nobody yet has the time to fix it and it would be good to provide a PR by someone else (including the reporter).
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On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:06 PM Ullrich Hafner <ullrich...@gmail.com> wrote:Am 21.01.2017 um 15:07 schrieb Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net>:+1 for no assignee by default and adding the NEW statusHaving a state to basically say: "this is issue is new, but has not been reviewed, so may be invalid/incomplete/whatever for whatever reason" makes sense IMO. And that the Triage team could use for, well, triaging.Also, I'm trying to think about what the "default assignee" way of working right sends as message. It may push back some ppl willing to contribute,Why would this push back people? A default assignee (as Atlassian defines it) is a person who is responsible for an issue, i.e. the owner (not identical to the person fixing it).I mistakenly assumed that "assignee" meant "the person who is working on this bug" or at least "the person who will eventually work on this bug". When a bug was assigned to someone, I was hesitant to start work on that bug without acknowledgment from the current assignee that they are not actively working on the bug. If the bug is unassigned, then I am more confident that no one is actively working on that bug.
I think I can get the same information from reports if I can trust that people use the state "In Progress" to indicate they are actively working on a bug. I'm happy to start using "In Progress" as well. There are currently 574 bugs "In Progress", with approximately 10% of them updated in the last month. Based on that, "In Progress" does not seem to be a widely used status value.
Can you provide a pointer to that Atlassian definition of "assignee"? I'd like to understand their intended use model.
Likewise, can you further expand on your definition of "responsible for an issue"?
Is "responsible for an issue"
- the lead maintainer of the component?
- the person implementing the fix?
- the person verifying the fix?
- the person checking the bug can be duplicated?
- the person automating tests of the bug?
or "send" the wrong message with essentially newcomers (which are probably the majority) thinking basically when seeing an assignee "cool, someone is looking into that" which is generally (90% of the time?) wrong.I think the opposite message is also wrong: ohh, no assignee, that means nobody cares about my bug report:-( I think the majority of users reporting a bug is not interested in fixing it on their own.(And a side note: as a user of a professional software system (especially one that is used to improve the quality of software) I would expect that most of the issues are going to be solved by the team, not only 10%. But this would be a topic for another discussion: how can we close the gap between new and resolved issues...)I disagree that "most of the issues are going to be solved by the team", unless you and I have radically different definitions of "team". I define "team" as "active maintainers of that plugin", which makes the number of people quite small. I hope that many, many issues are investigated and resolved by a wide collection of infrequent contributors who discover and fix something important to them.
Mark Waite
I love the idea of the TRIAGE team, thanks a lot Slide for that. I will try to help a bit (though I should already start by being back to more activity on the HOSTING project front).
2017-01-21 0:32 GMT+01:00 Ullrich Hafner <ullrich...@gmail.com>:
I see, the discussion seems to indicate that we have (at least two) different kind of development processes. I’m not sure if I can summarize it properly:We have plugins with one main developer who takes the responsibility for all new issues. Even if the issue is not solved immediately these issues should be assigned here to the component lead (which should be a good practice to set via the IRC bot anyway) to mark the responsible person for this issue.Then we have plugins (and core?) with one or more developers: here nobody is responsible for an issue in the beginning. If there is time for fixing an issue available then a team member is picking an interesting issue with no assignee, assigns the issue and starts work on it. All unassigned issues are waiting to be fixed by either a team member *or* a volunteer.So I think the only way to make a bug reporter think that somebody really cares about an issue is to introduce this new status in the beginning (before Open). Then the triage team or the component lead can verify this issue and ping the reporter for additional information. If this issue will be finally accepted then it is moved to Open. In this step we can either remove the assignee or not (depending on the component lead). Then the reporter sees that his bug report has been accepted: if there is no assignee set, then the reporter also sees that nobody yet has the time to fix it and it would be good to provide a PR by someone else (including the reporter).
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Am 24.01.2017 um 09:10 schrieb Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net>:
2017-01-24 1:11 GMT+01:00 Mark Waite <mark.ea...@gmail.com>:On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:06 PM Ullrich Hafner <ullrich...@gmail.com> wrote:Am 21.01.2017 um 15:07 schrieb Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net>:+1 for no assignee by default and adding the NEW statusHaving a state to basically say: "this is issue is new, but has not been reviewed, so may be invalid/incomplete/whatever for whatever reason" makes sense IMO. And that the Triage team could use for, well, triaging.Also, I'm trying to think about what the "default assignee" way of working right sends as message. It may push back some ppl willing to contribute,Why would this push back people? A default assignee (as Atlassian defines it) is a person who is responsible for an issue, i.e. the owner (not identical to the person fixing it).I mistakenly assumed that "assignee" meant "the person who is working on this bug" or at least "the person who will eventually work on this bug". When a bug was assigned to someone, I was hesitant to start work on that bug without acknowledgment from the current assignee that they are not actively working on the bug. If the bug is unassigned, then I am more confident that no one is actively working on that bug.+1. I said that not only out of thin air, but because this is how I started. And seeing an assignee adds a step of commenting on the issue, if I ever dared, then waiting for the answer to take over it. Possibly granted, I would work on it still if blocking, but wouldn't assign it to myself directly generally.
I think I can get the same information from reports if I can trust that people use the state "In Progress" to indicate they are actively working on a bug. I'm happy to start using "In Progress" as well. There are currently 574 bugs "In Progress", with approximately 10% of them updated in the last month. Based on that, "In Progress" does not seem to be a widely used status value.
Can you provide a pointer to that Atlassian definition of "assignee"? I'd like to understand their intended use model.
Likewise, can you further expand on your definition of "responsible for an issue"?
Is "responsible for an issue"
- the lead maintainer of the component?
- the person implementing the fix?
- the person verifying the fix?
- the person checking the bug can be duplicated?
- the person automating tests of the bug?
or "send" the wrong message with essentially newcomers (which are probably the majority) thinking basically when seeing an assignee "cool, someone is looking into that" which is generally (90% of the time?) wrong.I think the opposite message is also wrong: ohh, no assignee, that means nobody cares about my bug report:-( I think the majority of users reporting a bug is not interested in fixing it on their own.(And a side note: as a user of a professional software system (especially one that is used to improve the quality of software) I would expect that most of the issues are going to be solved by the team, not only 10%. But this would be a topic for another discussion: how can we close the gap between new and resolved issues...)I disagree that "most of the issues are going to be solved by the team", unless you and I have radically different definitions of "team". I define "team" as "active maintainers of that plugin", which makes the number of people quite small. I hope that many, many issues are investigated and resolved by a wide collection of infrequent contributors who discover and fix something important to them.Agree with Mark. I was going to answer I disagree too on opensource, clearly: I am not committed to fix *any* thing that might arise on the opensource plugins I maintain.
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Am 23.01.2017 um 22:47 schrieb Slide <slide...@gmail.com>:Ok, to summarize...1) We don't want to set the assignee2) We do want to make sure the component(s) are correct3) We want to try and replicate the issue and add findings4) We want to close out issues that are very old with little information to clean things upIs there anything I missed?
Thanks for the discussion on this!AlexOn Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 2:37 PM Ullrich Hafner <ullrich...@gmail.com> wrote:I would prefer to use the default Jira workflow as much as possible. So adding a new start state would be much simpler. No other transition needs to be changed in this case.
> Am 21.01.2017 um 23:18 schrieb Daniel Beck <m...@beckweb.net>:
>
>
>> On 21.01.2017, at 15:07, Baptiste Mathus <m...@batmat.net> wrote:
>>
>> adding the NEW status
>>
>> Having a state to basically say: "this is issue is new, but has not been reviewed, so may be invalid/incomplete/whatever for whatever reason" makes sense IMO.
>
> Shouldn't we create a new "To Do" or "Confirmed" status then, to initialize all existing issues that aren't in progress etc. to that unverified status?
>
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Hi all,BR, Oleg
I am in.
Right now I dedicate time for reviewing incoming issues in the core, Remoting, "_unsorted", a couple of other modules and a bunch of plugins I am supposed to maintain. I can unlikely dedicate more time to review other components (would prefer to do bugfixing in core/remoting), but at least I am ready to keep working on the current stuff.2017-04-11 10:07 GMT+02:00 Daniel Beck <m...@beckweb.net>:
> On 10.04.2017, at 22:44, Slide <slide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> if you are interested!
I am.
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I would like to be a part of this. I have some operational knowledge of bug-triage from the Kubernetes community that may be of some help here.
> On Jun 16, 2020, at 1:22 PM, Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
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I would be interested
On Jun 16, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Mark Waite <mark.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm interested.
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