What will the next LTS be (was Re: Next LTS is 1.596)

[Stephen Connolly]

Where was the discussion on this? I couldn't find it anywhere in http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2015/jenkins.2015-01-07-19.01.log.html or http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2015/jenkins.2015-01-21-19.01.log.html

I am asking because I would like to know what the next LTS will be... and my understanding was that it was discussed at the governance meetings and instead the only reference I can see is this thread where it was just announced 

/me hoping for 1.607+ or 1.610 ideally

On 27 January 2015 at 22:02, oliver gondža <ogo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

We have agreed on new LTS baseline version as 1.580 reached its end of life. Users can expect first RC based on 1.596 on 2015-02-04.

--
oliver

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[Jesse Glick]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Stephen Connolly
<stephen.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where was the discussion on this? I couldn't find it anywhere in

> jenkins.2015-01-07-19.01.log.html or jenkins.2015-01-21-19.01.log.html

Not sure why you are looking at logs in January! According to

https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/JENKINS/LTS+Release+Line

the next baseline is picked around the time 1.596.3 is released.

The RC was posted on Apr 05, meaning the release should have been on
Apr 19/20. Clearly that did not happen; maybe Kohsuke just forgot?

Picking a baseline generally happens during a project meeting, which
is not for another week, though I suppose it could be done on the dev
list as well.

> /me hoping for 1.607+ or 1.610 ideally

/me hoping for 1.607+ definitely, or 1.609+ ideally, and if not 1.610+
then I certainly have some `lts-candidate`s I will push for.

I have complained about this to Kohsuke privately but perhaps others
are affected too: it would be really helpful if the upcoming LTS
baseline were decided (*) well in advance, so that people writing APIs
would know when those changes would actually be available for use from
plugins with LTS dependencies (as is usually preferred). As it stands,
for workflow-plugin I have the master branch on 1.596.x, a branch
using APIs from 1.599+ intended for the next LTS, a branch on top of
that branch (!) using 1.609+ which may or may not be in the next LTS,
and an unrelated branch using 1.607+ which will probably be in the
next LTS but I am not sure. I cannot collapse these branches without
running the risk that the LTS will be earlier than 1.609 and I will
have to revert some of my changes and put them back in a branch. It
would be a lot less work, and merge conflicts, if I knew in advance
what I was going to get in May, and could plan accordingly. Indeed my
core changes could be planned with a schedule in mind, and reviewers
could ask for a particularly dangerous-looking PR to be put on hold if
a new baseline were imminent.

Put another way, the current policy is fine if you think of Jenkins
core releases as more or less equivalent, but some more stable than
others according to a couple dozen user ratings, so we might as well
pick a reasonably recent sunny one so fewer regression fixes need to
be backported. It does not work when you think of core as a platform
with APIs that plugin authors are awaiting the delivery of. I realize
that most plugins use rather old core dependencies and are not much
affected, so perhaps mine is a minority complaint.


(*) Since we seem to have replaced the RC system with a policy of
doing multiple 1.xxx releases in a week if warranted, the decision
would be better stated in terms of a date, rather than a version
number.

[Stephen Connolly]

On 22 April 2015 at 12:36, Jesse Glick <jgl...@cloudbees.com> wrote:

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Stephen Connolly
<stephen.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where was the discussion on this? I couldn't find it anywhere in
> jenkins.2015-01-07-19.01.log.html or jenkins.2015-01-21-19.01.log.html

Not sure why you are looking at logs in January!

I was trying to find where 1.596 was selected as the LTS line... 1.596 was released in January and 

On Feb 4th we just have

19:42:19 <kohsuke> #topic LTS RC status
19:42:30 <kohsuke> #action Kohsuke to put LTS schedules in the calendar
19:42:39 <ogondza> kohsuke: we are ready
19:42:46 <hgilmore> Thank you
19:42:49 <kohsuke> ogondza: yay
19:42:58 <kohsuke> all right, that was easy

On Feb 18th, we have:

20:02:14 <kohsuke> #topic LTS status check
20:02:30 <ogondza> kohsuke: we are ready
20:02:47 <kohsuke> ogondza: yay, nice and sweet

On  Mar 4th we have:

19:00:32 <kohsuke_> #topic LTS RC status check
19:00:50 <ogondza> kohsuke_: ready for RC
19:01:08 <kohsuke_> I failed once again to push 1.596.1 in time, so my hats off to you ogondza
19:01:26 <ogondza> no problem

So by March 4th 1.596 was chosen as the LTS line. The only reference I could see to 1.596 being selected was the mail on 27th of Jan from ogondza which would mean that I should expect to see in the logs during January the discussion of which LTS line to pick... but no sign or sight

 

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[Daniel Beck]

On 22.04.2015, at 11:48, Stephen Connolly <stephen.al...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Where was the discussion on this?

See http://echelog.com/logs/browse/jenkins/1422313200 starting at:

> [20:35:54] <ogondza> kohsuke: I noticed we forgot to pick new LTS, so if you have a minute...

[oliver gondža]

I failed to put in on agenda once again. Sorry about that.

On Wed, 22 Apr 2015 13:36:29 +0200, Jesse Glick <jgl...@cloudbees.com>
wrote:

> I have complained about this to Kohsuke privately but perhaps others
> are affected too: it would be really helpful if the upcoming LTS

> baseline were decided (*) well in advance, ...

This idea was coined when we discussed last LTS policy update and there
was no consensus. I am opened to give it a try as the only change it
requires is the date the discussion happens and LTS.next is announced. If
some of the concerns proves to be valid we can switch back rather easily.

--
oliver

[Jesse Glick]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 3:55 PM, oliver gondža <ogo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If some of the concerns proves to be valid we can switch back rather easily.

I do not recall the conversation. Do you remember what the concerns were?

[ogondza]

See:

#topic LTS.next planning

http://meetings.jenkins-ci.org/jenkins/2014/jenkins.2014-01-22-19.01.log.html

I identified these 2:

- Announced weekly release might prove itself to be of low quality

    19:33:28 <kohsuke> It feels like beefing up the QA effort into the main line release is the pre-requisite for us to be able to mechanically pick the LTS base version

- Low quality work can get into those releases because of the pressure it poses on contributors/commiters

    19:34:05 <ogondza> I am afraid that knowing what will be the next lts before it is released can motivate people push changes to those releases in a hurry degrading their quality

But as you said, we can hold dangerous changes until the LTS.next is released. Perhaps this will allow us to merge more PRs we are not so sure about right after the crucial release to give it extra long time until picked up by the following LTS.next.