Answer to Drew from a JW
^..^
trying to defend the 607 date. This is mostly for lurkers, those who
still may be holding onto the idea that there is truth in this date.
Probably one of the most talked about WT doctrines is that of 1914 and
the 'Gentile Times'. So much historical and Biblical information is
out there on this subject it can boggle the mind of active and
inactive JWs alike.
False. But irrelevant.
This isn't to say I have a problem with all this discussion, it is
quite important. But when it comes down to it, there seems to be some
undisputable things that can't be avoided. I believe that when we
simply take what the WTS teaches on these things and follow them
through the entire way the absurdity of it all plainly stands out.
These points are:
- Nothing the Watchtower claimed that would happen before or on 1914
ever happened
False. And more irrelevant.- What actually did happen in 1914 (a war) the WTS specifically said
WOULD NOT happen
You need to stop focusing on the WTS.
Jehovah told David that a king in his lineage would rule on Jehovah's Throne forever.
That lineage was paused or banded from 607 for 2520 years to 1914 as Dan 4 prophesies.
The king in the line of David lost his sovereignty in 607 BCE and then the one who has
the right to rule, Jesus, took rulership in 1914.
Those are the facts.
Gail Nadeau
Gail
Drew Sagan
I find it interesting the need to point out the two things I mentioned
as both false and irrevelant. If it is irrevelant then why does it
matter if it is false or not?
You state that what I said regarding the predictions of the 1914 are
false. If that is so we must then conclude that what the Watchtower
proclaimed before 1914 actually did happen. Is that what is being
suggested? Do you really think the Watchtower predicted accurately
what would happen in 1914?
One only has to read the book my A.H. Macmillin to see that what the
'Bible Students' thought was going to happen in 1914 did not occur.
A.H Macmillin wrote that they had 'expected the wrong thing at the
right time'. The Watcthower is very candid about this in telling how
they did not realize what was going to happen, just read the
proclaimers book.
Part of the confusion about what actually was proclaimed by the
Watchtower before 1914 comes from inaccurate information they publish
in their magazines to this day. An excellent study in how the
Watchtower misleads it's readers in regards to what was proclaimed
before 1914 can be read here:
It is also important to recognize that Russell and the 'Bible
Students' at no time felt that a coming war in Europe was going to be
part of his 1914 chronology. He made this quite clear in the
Watchtower magazine of January 15, 1892. In it he states:
*****.... the daily papers and the weeklies and monthlies, religious
and secular, are continually discussing the prospects of war in
Europe. They note the grievances and ambitions of the various nations
and predict that war is inevitable at no distant day, that it may
begin at any moment between some of the great powers, and that the
prospects are that it will eventually involve them all.... We do not
think that the prospects of a general European war are so marked as is
commonly supposed. True, all Europe is like a great powder magazine
which a single stray match might set off at any moment with a
tremendous explosion. The various nations are armed to the teeth with
the most destructive weapons that skill and ingenuity can invent, and
there are national grievances and bickerings and hatred that must find
a vent some time; and in consideration of these things the war cloud
is always impending and ever darkening: but things may continue just
so for many years, and we think they will.... Even should a war or
revolution break out in Europe sooner than 1905, we could not consider
it any portion of the severe trouble predicted. At most it could be a
forerunner of it, a mere 'skirmish' as compared with what is to come.
The date of the close of that "battle" is definitely marked in
Scripture as October, 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning
dating from October, 1874. Thus far it has been chiefly a battle of
words and a time of organizing forces.... Never was there such a
general time of banding together as at present. Not only are nations
allying with each other for protection against other nations, but the
various factions in every nation are organizing to protect their
several interests. [Zion's Watch Tower, January 15, 1892, pp. 19-23]
****
We are left with the question, what PURPOSE does it serve God to have
Christ enthroned in 1914? There are really only two things:
1. To establish the Watchtower organization as a God appointed
religion
2. To cause people to feel an extreme sense of urgency in their life
and that they may not be spared if the end comes if they are not
supporting the Watchtower
Other than these two things, what has the date accomplished FOR GOD?
Did God really reveal this prophecy to his so called 'people' in
order that they could misunderstand it for well over 100 yeras? What
purpose does it serve God to have such a 'key prohpecy' go sour for
well over a century?
Take away 1914 and all that is gone is the authority of the
Watchtower. You cannot separate this doctrine from the WTS no matter
how much you try. The Watchtower cannot claim it has been given God
appointed authority that is in line with this chronolgy and at the
same time say that it is unrelated to it as a religion.
ResLight
for Charles Taze Russell. I do not agree with everything he wrote, but
much of what he wrote has been misrepresented by those who oppose him
and others.
I have compiled some statements of CTR concerning 1914, which is
online at:
http://ctr.reslight.net/1914.html
I will present excerpts below:
Many statements have been made to the effect that all of Charles Taze
Russell's predictions concerning 1914 were a failure. However, for
those familiar with Russell's writings, it is obvious that what is
being said is not entirely true. Yes, not all Russell expected for
1914 came to pass, but his main prediction, that the "time of trouble"
was to begin in 1914, we believe did come true.
The truth is that Russell was not expecting all human governments to
be immediately overthrown in 1914. Russell did make some statements of
which he later acknowledged that he was wrong, but this does not mean
that the year 1914 itself was a failure. His expectations concerning
the "change" of the church by 1914 or end of 1915 and the New Covenant
established with Israel by end of the 1915 did fail. He expected the
harvest to end in 1914 (or 1915), but after 1914 he believed that the
harvest had not ended. These expectations did not come true in 1914,
but other expectations did come true. He also expected that anarchy
would set in, especially upon the nations called "Christendom", by the
end of 1915. Of course, Russell never claimed to be making
"prophecies", nor did he claim that his calculations were infallible.
Indeed, he disclaimed such many times, and even cautioned several
times that he could be wrong concerning what was expected at 1914 or
1915.
The events of and following World War I saw the ascendancy of Israel
to political autonomy and eventual life as a nation, one of the major
steps in the setting up of God's kingdom. The year 1917 saw the
ousting of the Turks from Jerusalem by General Allenby, and Britain's
commitment, through the Balfour Declaration, to establish a homeland
for the Jewish people. The Land of Israel reappeared on the world
political map.
Did we see the full establishment of God's Kingdom in 1914/1915? What
exactly did Russell expect regarding this? Russell believed that the
full setting up of the earthly phase of God's kingdom would follow the
time of trouble that was to begin in 1914; he had stated that he did
not know how long that the time of trouble would last, but that he
"expected" it to be over shortly after 1914, probably by the end of
1915. He was short-sighted in this regard, but this does not do away
with the overall picture.
Please note that we don't defend each and every statement that Russell
said (nor do we believe Russell himself would do so), and Russell
himself said over and over all through his ministry that his
expectations were not infallible, and that he could be wrong on the
some things expected at certain certain dates.
Nevertheless, when viewed from God's standpoint, we are still "shortly
after" 1914. Although Russell himself did not think the time of
trouble would be this long, he did allow that it could be. It is
possible that the time allotted for this period is 120 years
(1914+120=2034), but that these days will be "cut short" some time
before they are allowed to reach their end. We do not put this forth
as a "prophecy", nor would we feel anything was wrong if 2034 came and
went and nothing had happened as far the full binding of Satan and the
destruction of his empire is concerned. All things are in God's
hands.
Russell, after 1904, expected the spiritual phase of God's Kingdom
(which he believed had already been set up over the years from 1874 to
1878) to bring in, not an immediate total destruction of the Gentile
Kingdoms, nor that God's Kingdom would immediately bring peace to the
nations in 1914, but rather just the opposite, a time of trouble,
which would eventually bring in the Kingdom rulership all over the
earth. Before 1904, he had expected the time of trouble to begin
before 1914 and end in 1914; but in 1904 he began to see 1914 as the
"beginning" -- not the end -- of the time of trouble. This somewhat
overrides all of the earlier statments concerning the consumation of
things in 1914.
Note that we do not necessarily agree with everything he said (nor do
we believe Russell himself would agree with everything he stated). We
also note that in Russell's day there was no central governing body
amongst the Bible Students, and there were some Bible Students who
disagreed with many of Russell's conclusions during the times he made
these statements, as one can see from the quotes below. We do believe
that many of his statements were overconfident, and some others were
overstated. As one can see, however, Russell stated that these were
his own surmisings as a result of his study of the prophecies. He
never tried to force anyone to accept his predictions. One should also
realize that some of his statements were "spur of the moment" or "off
the fly" statements that were recorded and put into print.
1886:
While thorough and orderly study is necessary to the appreciation of
any of the sciences, it is specially so in the science of Divine
revelation. And in this work it is doubly necessary, from the fact
that in addition to its being a treatise on divinely revealed truths,
it is an examination of the subject from, so far as we know, an
altogether different standpoint from that of any other work. We have
no apology to offer for treating many subjects usually neglected by
Christians--among others, the coming of our Lord, and the prophecies
and symbolism of the Old and New Testaments. No system of theology
should be presented, or accepted, which overlooks or omits the most
prominent features of Scripture teaching. We trust, however, that a
wide distinction will be recognized between the earnest, sober and
reverent study of prophecy and other scriptures, in the light of
accomplished historic facts, to obtain conclusions which sanctified
common sense can approve, and a too common practice of general
speculation, which, when applied to divine prophecy, is too apt to
give loose rein to wild theory and vague fancy. Those who fall into
this dangerous habit generally develop into prophets (?) instead of
prophetic students.
-- 1886; "The Divine Plan of the Ages", pg. 13
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/htdb0068.htm#a13
1893:
Neither must you lean upon the DAWN and the TOWER as infallible
teachers. If it was proper for the early Christians to prove what they
received from the apostles, who were and who claimed to be inspired,
how much more important it is that you fully satisfy yourself that
these teachings keep closely within their outline instructions and
those of our Lord; -- since their author claims no inspiration, but
merely the guidance of the Lord, as one used of him in feeding his
flock.
I trust, dear Brother, that, as you examine these publications, that
may seem to you to be true of the author which the Apostle Paul said
of himself: "We preach not ourselves, but Christ, -- the power of God
and the wisdom of God. Whether successful or not, others must judge,
and especially the Lord; but I ever seek to hold forth the Word of
Life." (Phil. 2:16) True, it has been held forth in my hands (powers),
but never as my Word. Hence in no sense have I, as a pope, taken the
place of Christ before his Church.
Indeed, time and again I have seen that the teachings of those who
make utterances of their own, but in the name of Christ, by claimed
inspiration, or special revelations, or boasted wisdom (which is the
real spirit of popery), and without proof from the Scripture, are
received by many. And I am confident that the DAWN and TOWER would
have many more friends and believers if they followed this (popery's)
course; -- for as some one has said, "People prefer to be humbugged."
But such a course I dare not follow; I must be true to the Lord and
declare his Word, and let him take charge of the consequences.
-1893; letter written by Pastor Russell,
published in "The Watch Tower", June, 1893 pg. 168
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r1535b.htm
1896:
Should we understand that "that servant" must be divinely inspired, so
as to be infallible; and that "his fellow servants" and the
"household" would be cut off by his service from fellowship with the
Lord through the Scriptures?
Answer. -- (1) We purposely avoided making an application of "that
servant." We merely corrected a former too careless criticism of the
lesson; and showed that the language of the Scripture was so carefully
chosen as to leave no room to question its reference to some one
servant (animate or inanimate) whom the Lord would specially use in
the present time to dispense the present truth to "his fellow
servants" as well as to the "household."
The account contains no suggestion of either the inspiration or
infallibility of "that servant." This distinction belongs only to the
Lord, the Apostles and the prophets. The whole force of the statement
shows "that servant" to be merely a special channel for distributing
the truth. His business is not to make truth, but to circulate it; --
to put it into the hands of "his fellow servants" and the truth-hungry
"household."
There certainly is no intimation that the "household" is cut off from
access to, or feeding on, the Word of God; neither by "that servant"
nor by "his fellow servants." None of the "servants" are to come
between the "household" of faith and God's Word.
On the contrary, each one of the "household" is to prove all that he
accepts as spiritual food, whether he gets it from the Bible himself
or from "that servant" or from "his fellow servants." None of these
servants are "lords over God's heritage"; their highest privilege will
be to serve, and the only difference between "that servant" and "his
fellow servants" will be that his service will be more general, a
wider service.
More perhaps than any other servant, ZION'S WATCH TOWER has opposed
the thought that the Church of Christ is composed of a clerical class
commissioned to teach, and a lay class not commissioned to teach the
divine Word: it specially has held up the inspired words, "all ye are
brethren" and "one is your Master"; and has pointed out that all
consecrated believers are of the "royal priesthood" each fully
commissioned, not to "lord it" over others, but to sacrifice himself
in the service of the truth, doing good unto all, especially to the
household of faith. So with the servants of Matt. 24:49; service is
their only commission, not lordship or self-appointment. All the
members of the "body" are "anointed to preach" the gospel, and
instructed to search the Scriptures, as we have heretofore clearly
shown. This has been true ever since Pentecost, and is as true as ever
to-day. But the plan of the ages, as a general arrangement and
"feast," provided by God for his people, was not provided until its
due time. Each one who is served with the present truth may invite
others to sit down while he joins the servants in ministering to them.
There is abundant opportunity for all who desire to be "servants"; for
the majority of the household of faith have as yet barely "tasted that
the Lord is gracious" -- not yet tasted of "the riches of his grace in
Christ Jesus our Lord."
-- Zion's Watch Tower, June 15, 1896, pages 139,140
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r1993.htm
For our study on the faithful and wise servant, see:
http://ctr.reslight.net/faithful-servant.html
*****
++++++++
1897:
To our understanding this would not imply that "that servant" or
steward, used as a channel for the circulation of the "meat in due
season," would be the originator of that meat, nor inspired, nor
infallible. Quite to the contrary, we may be sure that whoever the
Lord will so use, as a truth-distributing agent, will be very humble
and unassuming, as well as very zealous for the Master's glory; so
that he would not think of claiming authorship or ownership of the
truth, but would merely dispense it zealously, as his Master's gift,
to his Master's "servants" and "household."
-- The Battle of Armageddon, page 613.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/htdb0118.htm#d613
1901:
The Editor of this journal, through its columns, is pleased to meet
with those of the Lord's people who desire fellowship and communion
respecting the Lord's Word; and the reading of expositions of the
Scriptures in the WATCH TOWER differs nothing from hearing the
utterance of the same words by any living person who might meet with
you. We claim no infallibility for our presentations, nor do we simply
offer our opinions and conjectures, after the manner of the scribes
and Pharisees; but rather after the manner of the great Teacher, we
seek to present to the minds of those interested the teachings of
Moses and the prophets, and to voice the testimony of Jesus and the
apostles, and to show the harmony of the Scriptures.
-- Zion's Watch Tower, April 15, 1901, page 136
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r2800.htm#R2801:page136
1906:
--------------------------
"We preach not ourself but Christ. We substantiate nothing except by
his Word. We make no laws, formulate no creed, deprive no sheep of his
full liberty in Christ; but merely on every question quote the Word of
the Lord, through the apostles and prophets. We boast nothing, claim
nothing of ourself. We are content to serve the Lord and his flock to
the best of our ability--exacting no tithes, no "honor of men," no
confession of authority, no compensation; hoping merely for the love
of the Lord and of those who are his children and have his Spirit. So
far from forming or desiring to form a new sect, we ignore all
sectarian systems and their claimed authority; we recognize only the
"one Lord, one Faith and one Baptism" of the Scriptures and fellowship
as a "brother" every person of decent morals who confesses faith in
the "redemption through the blood of Christ," and especially all of
this class who profess a full consecration to the Lord's will and
service,-- whatever sect they may be in, or outside of all" -1906;
"The Watch Tower", January 1, 1906 pg. 20
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r3704.htm
++++++++
1904:: Universal Anarchy: Just Before or After October, 1914 A.D.?
ZWT, July 1, 1904, page 197, Reprints 3389
We now expect that the anarchistic culmination of the great time of
trouble which will precede the Millennial blessings will be after
October, 1914 A.D.--very speedily thereafter, in our opinion --"in one
hour," "suddenly." http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0350.htm
+++++++++++++
1904:: "Fear Not, O Zion", ZWT, August 1, 1904, Beginning on page 229,
Reprints 3405
Our Lord's presence, as shown in MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vol. II., dates from
October, 1874, where the forty years' harvest began, of which he is
the great Chief Reaper. The date for the final anarchy in no sense
affects it. April, 1878, marks the date of the establishment of the
Kingdom, as shown in the same volume. At that date was due the
resurrection of the sleeping saints who died "overcomers." Thus the
establishment of the Kingdom commenced: it has since progressed as one
after another of the same class have since died and been "changed" in
the moment of death. The Kingdom will be fully established or "set up"
by October, A.D. 1914, as already pointed out; for that date closes
the forty years of "harvest" and accomplishes its design--the
gathering of all the wheat into the garner of the heavenly condition.
***
So then, dear friends, it is evident that the coming of universal
anarchy after the "harvest," after October 1914 A.D., has nothing
whatever to do with either the presence of the Reaper or the setting
up of his Kingdom. Indeed, the guidance and overruling of that anarchy
will be under the control of the glorified Church--the Christ. Thus
those days of anarchy will be shortened and not permitted to go on to
their reasonable end--a general strife, "every man's hand against his
brother"--which would in the end mean "no flesh saved." On the
contrary, the glorified Christ will permit the trouble to go only so
far as to teach the world a great lesson: that its rule of selfishness
means in the end destruction--to be devoured one of another. It too
will teach the foolishness of human boastings in re present wisdom,
civilization, etc.
Just another word on this subject. We find that some have concluded
that because anarchy destroyed the Jewish nation in the one year
following their "harvest," therefore we should expect that the one
year, from October 1914 to October 1915, following the Gospel age
"harvest," would measure the period of universal anarchy coming. We
cannot agree to this conclusion, because the type or parallel goes
[R3406 : page 230] no further than the end of the forty years'
"harvest" in both cases--October 69, where the year A.D. 70 began, and
October 1914, where the year 1915 A.D. will begin (Jewish reckoning).
The anarchy period lies entirely outside of any dates or reckonings
furnished us. It may be one year or more. The "elect" are not to be in
it, and as for their interest in friends who may experience its
sorrows we now know our Father's character and plan so well that we
dare trust our friends as well as ourselves to his loving care,
assured that God's provisions will be the wisest and best.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0351.htm
++++++++++++++
1904:: "The Times of the Gentiles Nearly Run Out", The Pittsburgh
Gazette, January 11, 1904
The prophecy pictures, nevertheless, what will actually transpire. The
Lord Jesus at the appropriate time will take unto Himself His great
power and begin His reign - a reign of righteousness which the world
will not see, neither comprehend, until it shall have broken in pieces
the kingdoms of this world as a potter's vessel under the rule of the
"iron rod" of Justice. (Rev. 2:27) While it is now the mission of the
Lord's people in the flesh to make known the good tidings of the
Lord's truth and grace, and as ambassadors of God to urge upon all the
acceptance of these, it is now the due time also for them to announce
what would not have been true at an earlier time, namely, "The day of
vengeance of our Lord, the day of recompense." This time of trouble
coming upon the world, which will apparently and actually come through
the breaking loose of human passions, will be fully under the control
of the spiritual invisible kingdom forces, which have now assumed
control of the affairs of this world. To the worldly things may appear
to continue as they have been from the foundation of the world (Second
Peter 3:4), but it is in appearance only. Actually the change of
dispensation is due, the divine forces are in control and it is a part
of the divine program to permit the wrath of man to work out a share
in the judgments of the "day of wrath." Thank God! this day of wrath
is not a time of future roastings in eternal torment, but it will be
found bad enough a present time of trouble in the close of this age,
in which there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth a
time of trouble referred to by the apostle when he says, "Go to now,
ye rich men, weep and howl for the mercies that shall come upon you.
Reproduced in Harvest Gleanings, Volume 2.
1904:: "Lessons Drawn From St. Louis Exposition", October 2, 1904,
Pittsburgh Gazette
The fourth testimony of the angel respecting the great time of trouble
closing "the time of the end" is not yet fulfilled; but on every hand
we can see that the precedent conditions are ripening. This fourth
feature is expressed in the words, "And there shall be a time of
trouble such as never was since there was a nation." From other
prophetic Scriptures we glean that this great trouble lies 10 years in
the future. It will be ushered in at the expiration of what the
Scriptures designate the "times of the Gentiles," October, 1914 A.D.
++++++++++
1904:: "Prince of Peace" Isaiah 9:1-7: ZWT, December 1, 1904, page
364, Reprints 3468
The third and fourth verses of our lesson, we believe, are near
fulfilment. In the Revised Version it reads, "Thou hast multiplied the
nation, thou hast increased her joy: they joy before thee according to
the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. For
the yoke of his burden and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his
oppressor, thou hast broken as in the day of Midian." The nation of
Israel is much increased today, the estimate at the present time being
between ten and twelve millions. Their joy is not yet accomplished
because this great deliverance here mentioned has not yet been
accomplished. It is to be accomplished in the day of trouble, shortly
after October, 1914, we believe. The reference here to their
deliverance being similar to that in the day of Midian signifies that,
as in the days of Midian the Lord specially manifested divine [R3469 :
page 366] power by which Gideon and a handful with him smote an
immense army and delivered Israel from the oppressor, so here in the
end of this age the glorified Lord and his glorified Church, the
little flock, the antitype of Gideon and his band, will deliver Israel
with a similar mighty manifestation of divine power
. http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0355.htm
+++++++++
1906::
-----------------------
First of all I hasten to assure you that I have never laid claim to
infallibility. I do not expect to be infallible until by the Lord's
grace I shall share a part in the First Resurrection; then, that which
is perfect having come, that which is in part shall be done away; we
shall see as we are seen and know as we are known. We accept the
writings by the twelve apostles as being so supervised of the Lord as
to be free from any error. He himself said of the writers, the
apostles, Whatsoever ye shall bind, enforce, on earth will be that
which is recognized as bound or enforced in heaven, and whatsoever ye
shall loose or release from on earth shall be loosed or released from
in heaven. Hence we may regard the presentations of those twelve men,
intended of the Lord to be his special representatives under the holy
Spirit's dispensation, as being infallible, true, inerrant. But there
is no ground for believing that any others than the apostles have been
so miraculously holden by the power of God as were those twelve, or
that we have any authority in the Word of God for considering the
words and writings of others as being above or beyond testing and
proving by the Scriptures. This has invariably been our presentation.
It has been our endeavor to present the Word of God faithfully as he
has given us to understand it--to our own Master we stand or fall.
Nevertheless we trust that our course has the approval also of such of
the Lord's dear people as, led by his Spirit, are now walking in the
light of present truth. -- ZWT, March 15, 1906, page 90
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r3745.htm
++++++++
1907:: Knowledge and Faith Regarding Chronology, ZWT, October 1907,
page 294, Reprints 4067
A DEAR Brother inquires, Can we feel absolutely sure that the
Chronology set forth in the DAWN-STUDIES is correct?--that the harvest
began in A.D. 1874 and will end in A.D. 1914 in a world-wide trouble
which will overthrow all present institutions and be followed by the
reign of righteousness of the King of Glory and his Bride, the
Church?
We answer, as we have frequently done before in the DAWNS and TOWERS
and orally and by letter, that we have never claimed our calculations
to be infallibly correct; we have never claimed that they were
knowledge, nor based upon indisputable evidence, facts, knowledge; our
claim has always been that they are based on faith. We have set forth
the evidences as plainly as possible and stated the conclusions of
faith we draw from them, and have invited others to accept as much or
as little of them as their hearts and heads could endorse. Many have
examined these evidences and have accepted them; others equally bright
do not endorse them. Those who have been able to accept them by faith
seem to have received special blessings, not merely along the line of
prophetic harmonies, but along all other lines of grace and truth. We
have not condemned those who could not see, but have rejoiced with
those whose exercise of faith has brought them special
blessings--"Blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they
hear."
***
But let us suppose a case far from our expectations: Suppose that A.D.
1915 should pass with the world's affairs all serene and with evidence
that the "very elect" had not all been "changed" and without the
restoration of natural Israel to favor under the New Covenant. (Rom.
11:12,15.) What then? Would not that prove our chronology wrong? Yes,
surely! And would not that prove a keen disappointment? Indeed it
would! It would work irreparable wreck to the Parallel dispensations
and Israel's Double, and to the Jubilee calculations, and to the
prophecy of the 2300 days of Daniel, and to the epoch called "Gentile
Times," and to the 1260, 1290 and 1335 days, the latter of which
marking the beginning of the Harvest so well fulfilled its prediction,
"Oh, the blessedness of him that waiteth and cometh unto the 1335
days!" None of these would be available longer. What a blow that would
be! One of the strings of our "harp" would be quite broken! [[I
believe Russell actually overstated this matter. Even if 1914 had
failed to produce anything at all, in reality it has no effect on the
1260, 1290 and 1335 days, for these would still be intact. -- Ronald]]
****
However, dear friends, our Harp would still have all the other strings
in tune and that is what no other aggregation of God's people on earth
could boast. We could still worship a God so great and grand that none
other could compare with Him. We should still see the grandeur of His
salvation in Christ Jesus--"a Ransom for all." We should still see the
wonders of "the hidden mystery," our fellowship with our Redeemer in
"His death" and also "in His resurrection" to "glory, honor and
immortality" --"the Divine nature."
If, therefore, dearly beloved, it should turn out that our chronology
is all wrong, we may conclude that with it we have had much advantage
everyway. If the attainment of our glorious hopes and present joys in
the Lord should cost us such disappointment as our friends fear, we
should rejoice and count it cheap! If the Lord sees it necessary for
the arousing of the "Virgins" to permit a false note upon the time
bugle, let us take it joyfully as one of the "all things" working
together for good to those who love Him, to the called ones according
to His purpose. But let us not forget that the parable shows that the
second awakening of the Virgins was no mistake! The Bridegroom came!
The "wise virgins" had the necessary faith to follow; the others, too
worldly-wise, lacked the faith and missed the high honors accorded to
the Bride class, though privileged later to be her companions at the
"marriage supper of the Lamb."
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0317.htm
See also:
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r5367.htm
++++++++
1908: "Views from the Watch Tower", January 1, 1908, page 3, Reprints
4109
>From the foregoing it will be seen that to our understanding
Christendom entered upon the final seven years of harvest time in
October, 1907. Promptly on time the present panic gave Christendom a
convulsive tremor, and it is our anticipation that the entire seven
years thus started will witness a succession of panics and
difficulties, each pressing a little more upon the interests of
mankind, the rich as well as the poor, and each bringing conditions to
a little harder plane than its predecessor, until, with the close of
the seven years, during 1915, according to the Bible, we expect that
anarchy will gain the upper hand of control throughout Christendom,
overthrowing present institutions, civil and religious, financial and
social, and in a general way plunging the poor world into the most
awful trouble it has ever experienced--a trouble so dark, so terrible,
that in referring to it the Master said, "Except those days be
shortened there would no flesh survive." But then he added, that
because of the Elect the days would be shortened. The Elect Church, at
that time in glory with the Lord, and assuming the authority of the
world, will at the proper moment intervene, and with divine power and
wisdom bring order out of the confusion, and establish in the world
righteous conditions, which the Scriptures assure us will then be
welcomed by all mankind. Those now disposed to fight for present
conditions will then, as a result of the chastening experience, be
glad to look for and accept the new order of things--the reign of
righteousness and love under the Millennial rule of the King of kings
and Lord of lords, with whom in his throne will be associated [R4110 :
page 5] the Bride, the Lamb's Wife--the Elect Little Flock of this
Gospel Age.
We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises, the
Scriptural basis for which is already in the hands of our readers in
the six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES. We do not even aver that there
is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations
of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for
each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them; but
showing our own faith by our works. Even our enemies must concede, and
many of them do concede, that the facts as they have developed year by
year since we began these presentations in 1876 have most wonderfully,
most remarkably, corroborated our expectations and continue to do so.
For instance, the Jews had not thought of returning to their own land
when, in 1878, we pointed out that the time for favor to that people
had chronologically begun, in fulfilment of Isaiah's prophecy,
"Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith my God. Speak ye comfortably
unto Jerusalem, and cry unto her that her appointed hour is
accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned; for she hath received of
the Lord's hand double for all her sins." (Isa. 40:1,2.) Zionism was
not dreamed of at that time, and began to take practical form
seventeen years afterward. http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r4109.htm
++++++++
1909:: "Lesson Review" March 21, ZWT, February 15, 1909, page 57,
Reprints 4336
The work done in Judea during the thirty-seven years following our
Lord's crucifixion and closing with the destruction of Jerusalem, A.D.
70, was a harvesting work to that nation. During that time we may be
sure every grain of "wheat" was separated from the chaff and gathered
into the garner--the higher or Gospel dispensation--into the spirit-
begotten condition. That Harvest extended beyond Palestine, but even
then it always applied "to the Jew first," until A.D. 70.
A similar work, the Harvesting of this age, we [R4337 : page 58]
understand has been in progress since 1878, and will terminate in
1914, with the beginning of a great time of trouble upon Christendom,
corresponding to and antityping the trouble which destroyed the Jewish
nation. The harvest work there had a radius of but a few hundred
miles. The harvest of today extends all over the civilized world, a
circuit of about ten thousand miles. Since the reapers are few, how
necessary it is that the Lord should provide the extraordinary
agencies which are now at our disposal for the circulation of the
harvest message--for the gathering of the wheat. May we not well say
that the Lord times the inventions of our day so as to provide for the
necessity of this harvest work, that every grain of wheat the whole
world around may be found and gathered into the garner of the high
dispensation, the heavenly? We believe that the principle noted in our
Golden Text is still applicable--that the Lord does not wish his
consecrated people, when they come into the light of Present Truth, to
congregate specially in special cities, States, etc., but rather wills
that they be scattered abroad, so that everywhere the Truth shall be
preached and that they shall have the inestimable privilege of
proclaiming it, serving it, and thus being blessed and upbuilt
themselves and prepared for a share in the glory of the Kingdom.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r4336b.htm
++++++++
1909:: "Times of the Gentiles", The National Labor Tribune, July 11,
1909
These 2520 years we believe will expire with October, 1914; at that
time we believe the Gentile lease of power will expire, and that the
God of heaven will set up his Kingdom in Israel. We do not expect
universal peace to immediately ensue because Christ is styled the
Prince of Peace. On the contrary, to our understanding the collapse of
the nations will be through a fierce strife, "a time of trouble such
as never was since there was a nation," in which "there shall be no
peace to him that goeth out, nor to him that cometh in," because God
will set every man's hand against his neighbor. Our belief is that the
warfare between capital and labor, emperors and peoples, will be
short, sharp, decisive, and bring untold calamity upon all concerned.
If people could only discern it, they would avoid it, but their eyes
are holden; they see not, neither do they understand. All the parties
to the conflict are plunging into it, each intent on gaining its
point, and each oblivious to its own best interests.
++++++++
1910:: What Pastor Russell Said, Question 555:4
The dates that are given to us prophetically are the ones I think we
ought to especially give heed to. Now these prophetic dates seem to
be, 1874, October; 1878, in the spring; and then 1881, in October; and
then October, 1914. Now these, as far as we can tell, are the dates
marked in prophecy, and to these we do well that we take heed as unto
a light shining in a dark place, as St. Peter says. That does not mean
that we know now, or that we ever knew, nor that we say now, nor that
we ever said, that the suggestions made respecting these dates which
are based upon prophecies are indisputable; nor that we have ever
claimed infallibility in the interpretation of the prophecies in
connection with them. What do we say, in the Scripture Studies, you
will remember, is this: That to our understanding, this teaches this,
and that teaches that, and the other teaches the other. We do not see
any other way they could be held together, or any other conclusion
that could be reached; and for my own part, therefore, I believe that
those dates signify such and such things. That is all we have ever
said; we never said we were infallible in these things. We believe
them. We have believed them from the first; we are acting upon that
belief. But, my dear friends, if October, 1915, came, or October,
1920, came, and no great time of trouble, and no change of all the
Church came, it would not overthrow my faith in the divine plan of the
ages for a moment. God is selecting a Church as the Seed of Abraham,
and that Church as the Seed of Abraham is predestinated to do the work
of blessing all the families of the earth; whether 1915 is the exact
time for that to begin, or the trouble that will introduce that time
of blessing, is another matter. I believe October, 1914, is the time
when we may expect that great time of trouble, because it seems to our
judgment, as far as we can understand the Scriptures, that is the time
when the Gentile period of lease, or tenure, will expire, and when,
therefore, we may expect that the time of trouble shall be ushered in;
and that time of trouble we understand is the one the Scriptures tell
about--a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation, a
time of trouble which shall overwhelm all sorts of government, and
every institution of the present time; and a time of trouble which
thus will make ready and prepare mankind for the glorious reign of
Christ and his Church, for the blessing and uplifting of all the
families of the earth.
***
1910:: Q76:1:: QUESTION (1910)--1--Should we consider it necessary to
call attention to other Prominent dates than 1874, 1878, 1881 or 1914?
Should 1911 be included.?
ANSWER--I am glad that question is there, my dear brothers and
sisters. You will notice that in my own teachings and writings I am
careful to avoid any other dates than these. I know nothing about
other dates. In the third volume of Scripture Studies there is a
suggestion, but it is offered only as a suggestion, merely that a
certain measurement in the Pyramid (not in the Word of God) looks as
though it might point down to 1910 or 1911, but we do not say that it
does mean anything, but merely throw out a suggestion. Don't
anticipate, don't say things are to occur, for we do not know, at
least I don't, and don't believe anyone else does. My advice is to
follow the Apostle when he says, "We speak those things that we know."
Don't say anything about those things that you do not know. Quite
likely you will wish you had not after a while. Nineteen hundred and
fourteen is the time when the "Gentile Times" will end. What does that
mean? I do not know, but I think it is when God lets go in a general
sense of the word, and permits things to take their course; and we can
readily suppose, as the Apostle says, that the course of nature would
be set on fire, because of strife. In the world of mankind, I shall
expect a time of great trouble, which the Bible marks out as having
its beginning about October, 1914, but I think, dear friends, that it
is more important, instead of telling of the time of trouble, to tell
about the good things. The poor people who get into the time of
trouble will have all they want of it then. I have enough now, and so
have you. The Scriptures say that through much tribulation shall we
enter the kingdom, and if we pay attention to our duties, we will get
enough without taking time to tell them about the time of trouble. The
world will not be profited by our telling, either. We do not wish to
scare anybody. We see the bad effects of this scare-religion in times
past. While we can tell them that there is a storm coming, we can also
tell them that God is going to make that a blessing, and we are glad
for the whole world of mankind, that this time of refreshing is near,
"Speak of the time of rest that nears." They have enough tribulation,
and I advise not to talk too much about the tribulation.
I think of one brother who had a large bump of imagination, who told
his wife all about the time of trouble and told it as though he had
been there already, telling her what flour would be a barrel at that
time, etc., etc., so that his poor wife was almost afraid of the
Truth. If he had said, My dear, there is a time of trouble coming and
those who make the Lord their refuge, he will have a supervising care
over them, I think it would have had a better effect. I {Page Q77}
have very little faith in any kind of scare religion, it does not work
well.
Another thing while at it. It is not quite in this question, but it is
kind of a second cousin to the question.
To what extent should the Pilgrims and other brothers preach "Brother
Russell"?
I say, not at all. You have plenty, dear friends, to preach and the
Apostle says, "We preach Christ." Brother Russell is very glad if the
Lord has used him as a finger-board to point the right road for your
eyes, that you can see wonderful things in the Word of God, but it is
not Brother Russell, but it is the Lord that has used him. As you see
the finger-board points out it is so many miles to Jamestown, it is
not the finger-board, but the person that painted and put it there
that is to be appreciated. So my advice is that you do not search the
Scriptures to find anything about Brotner Russell, but that you search
to find things about the "glorious One" whom we all reverence. You
remember we had already pointed to it 15 years ago and made this
statement applicable. You remember that John the Revelator had seen
this and that, and other things, and he said he fell at the feet of
the angel who showed me these things, saying, "See thou do it not: for
I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them
which keep the sayings of this book: worship God." That is the right
thought, but there is a tendency in this direction, and a danger to
worship the creature, or instrumentality, rather than the Creator who
uses the instrumentality. Let us not make that mistake. I do not want
any to make that mistake through any inadvertency on my part.
1910:: CHRONOLOGY--Pyramid Re 1910.
Q77:1:: QUESTION (1910)--1--What event is to take place in 1910, which
is pointed out in the Pyramid?
ANSWER--I do not know. There are many people who can tell you a great
deal more about 1910, 1911, 1912 and 1913 than I can. All I know is
there are certain dates that seem to be well fixed as far as we
understand the Scriptures--1874, 1878, 1881 and October, 1914. I do
not know about anything between at all. If other people do, they have
a right to talk about it.
But do you not say something in the third volume of Scripture studies
about 1910? Yes, I said we might take a measurement up over that step.
We do not know whether there is anything to be measured that way or
not, but suppose we do take a measurement over the top of that step:
It would indicate about the year 1910. But I do not know whether God
meant something to be marked for 1910 or not. I think by the time we
have passed that time, we might see something perhaps for 1910.
Perhaps we have gotten up on that step now, for all I know. Things are
going along pretty rapidly just now, dear friends.
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/Library/Russell/Questns/Whatsaid.pdf
++++++++
1911:: "Loosing the Four Winds of Heaven", May 15, 1911, page 146,
Reprints 4822
Our readers know that for some years we have been expecting this Age
to close with an awful time of trouble, and we expect it to break out
with suddenness and force not long after October, 1914, which, so far
as we can understand the Scriptures, is the date at which the Times of
the Gentiles --the lease of earth's dominions to the Gentiles--will
expire; the time, therefore, when Messiah's Kingdom will be due to
begin its exercise of power, which the Scriptures declare will dash
the nations in pieces as a potter's vessel. By that time we think the
Scriptures indicate that the Church will be complete and will have
passed beyond the second veil into the "most holy" and to perfection
of spirit nature by a share in the First Resurrection. Nevertheless,
how this is all to come about, as we have heretofore declared, is not
plain to us--how it will be that all of the Church class will die
before that date, changed in the moment of their dying, "in the
twinkling of an eye."
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r4822.htm
++++++++
1912:: Convention Sermons Report
We are expecting in October, 1914, that a great change will be due.
Now, how quickly will it come? Whether on the stroke of the clock or
not we do not know. We believe that it will land upon humanity by that
time. Perhaps some of it will come before that, but we believe it will
be stayed off until that time. Now, dear friends, what if it does not?
We are just as well off as the rest. That is what the Bible states. If
it does not state that to you, we have no quarrel. And if it does not
come we will not try to bring it about. But, on the contrary, we will
try to practice peace and holiness withal. We are children of peace
and peacemakers, not strife breeders. But we believe the Bible teaches
October, 1914, as the time. If that is incorrect for a year, or five,
or one hundred years, no matter, it is coming some time, whether we
have it right or not.
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/Library/Russell/CONVRPRT/crs.pdf
++++++++++
1912:: "Our European Conventions", ZWT, October 1, 1912, page 310,
Reprints 5109.
We sought specially to impress the necessity for character development
on the part of all hoping to share Christ's Kingdom. We emphasized the
brevity of the time for so great a work, provided our understanding of
God's times and seasons be correct. We freely admitted, as we have
always done, that we are walking by faith and not by sight. But we
pointed out that the evidences seem more and more to corroborate our
expectations. At the same time we suggested that should our
expectations for October, 1914, not be realized--for years thereafter--
this delay would not invalidate God's Great Plan nor our faith
therein. Our consecration vow calls for faithfulness, "even unto
death"--whenever death may come.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0257.htm
++++++++
1912:: "Spared in the Day of Trouble", ZWT, October 1, 1912, page 326,
Reprints 5119
The closing scenes of the Gospel Age will be the most remarkable of
the world's history. The Church will then be completed. We are not at
liberty to guess when the end of the trouble will be. Whether all of
the trouble will come in the next two or three years we do not know.
But we think that the most serious part of the trouble will occupy a
very short time.
Let us remember that we are living in most wonderful times. More can
be accomplished in one month now than could have been done in years
some time ago--more in one hour than in days formerly. We are still in
the waiting attitude, so that the Lord can indicate His will in the
matter to us. We believe that the year 1915 will be even more
wonderful than the present. We fully believe that the year 1914 will
see the end of the Gentile Times, for we cannot find even one flaw in
our Bible chronology. But we do not claim infallibility. To err is
human. If, therefore, the Father permits us to blunder in respect to
His Word in this matter, nevertheless, He will undoubtedly have a
great blessing for us. And if it should be that the year 1914 should
not mark the close of the Gentile Times, we would still believe that
the time could not be very far distant; for the nearer we come to that
time, the nearer we see the fulfilment of the things which the
Scriptures indicate will then occur.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/htdb0257.htm
+++++++
1913:: Press Report: Old Earth Will Go Rolling On, Convention Reports,
page 403
MENDING, NOT ENDING.
Pastor Russell at once attacked the doctrine that the world will some
day be consumed in fire and come to an end. All the predictions which
have been made, he said, concerning the end of the world are founded
on mistaken impressions of what is contained in the Bible. When St.
Paul wrote that the earth was to be burned up with fire, he meant,
said Pastor Russell, not that the world was to come to an end, but
that the nations of the world were to pass through a period of trial
and suffering from which they would emerge a better people, inhabiting
God's kingdom upon earth.
http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/bsl/Library/Russell/CONVRPRT/crs.pdf
+++++
1913:: "Resume of the Ending of the Times of the Gentiles", ZWT, page
307, R5328.
We say that according to the best chronological reckoning of which we
are capable, it is approximately that time--whether it be October,
1914, or later. Without dogmatizing, we are looking for certain
events: (1) The termination of the Gentile Times--Gentile supremacy in
the world--and (2) For the inauguration of Messiah's Kingdom in the
world. The kingdoms of earth will come to an end, and "the God of
Heaven will set up a Kingdom." (Daniel 2:44.) The Scriptures do not
say that the trouble will come in an hour, or in one day, or in one
year. The intimation is that the catastrophe coming upon our
civilization will be a very sudden one. (Revelation 18:8,10,17,21; I
Thessalonians 5:3.) But it will be very sudden if it comes within
twelve months. The Flood required many days to come, and many days to
assuage.
***
The lease, or permit, to govern the world was given to the Gentiles at
the time it was taken away from the Jews in the days of Zedekiah--606
B. C. And during the 2,520 years in which the Jews were to have no
government of their own, the Gentiles were to have the privilege of
maintaining such governments as they could. One nation after another
has tried to govern the world--first [R5328 : page 308] the
Babylonian, then the Medo-Persian, then the Grecian, then the Roman--
including Papal Rome--which was the fourth to attempt universal
empire. We are waiting for the time to come when the government of the
world will be turned over to Messiah. We cannot say that it may not be
either October, 1914, or October, 1915. It is possible that we might
be out of the correct reckoning on the subject a number of years. We
cannot say with certainty. We do not know. It is a matter of faith,
and not of knowledge. "We walk by faith, not by sight."
***
As we understand this matter, the Church will be glorified before that
time. When the lease expires, it would seem that the new tenants will
be ready to take possession. And we cannot see how the new tenants
could be ready to take possession unless they were glorified
beforehand. If they were still in the flesh, they would not be ready
to take possession. So if the Church is here in 1915, we shall think
that we have made some mistake. We do not understand how they will all
die between now and the close of 1914--how so many people, all over
the world--people of one mind--will all pass beyond the veil in so
short a time.
But we can see how the Lord might purposely leave us in a measure of
ignorance in this matter. We do not know positively that the month of
October, 1914, will see the Church all glorified, and the time of
trouble ushered in. We merely say, Here are the evidences. Here are
the proofs. Look at them for yourself and see what you then think. It
is for each to accept or reject the facts. (See STUDIES IN THE
SCRIPTURES, Vol. II.)
So far as we can reason, this chronology is reasonably correct--a good
basis for faith. "We walk by faith, and not by sight." God did not
tell us that we should know the exact hour. But we have certain
valuable information, and events seem to be fulfilling our
expectations more and more as the days go by.
***
Another thing we have been expecting is the return of the Jews to
Palestine. There is more and more now [R5329 : page 309] being said
about the Jews returning to Palestine, and more interest is being
aroused in the matter. When we first began to draw attention to this
subject of the return of the Jews to the Holy land, there was no
movement at all of this kind. It has all come since. It has not as yet
reached as great development as we might have expected, but it is
coming. So when October, 1914, comes or October, 1915, or some other
date (the Lord knoweth) and the Gentile Times terminate, it does not
follow that there will be an outburst that will revolutionize the
world, all in a day. But we believe that it will do so not very long
thereafter.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/r5328.htm
+++++++++++
1913:: "What Course Should We Take?", ZWT, November 15, 1913, page
341, Reprints 5348
Another letter received inquired respecting the proper treatment to be
given to a member of the Class who insisted on opposing the chronology
and denouncing all faith in October, 1914, either as respects the
gathering of the Church or the inauguration of the world's great Time
of Trouble. Our reply may be applicable in other cases. It is to the
effect that nobody should be specially encouraged in such an
opposition; for a bad spirit is always objectionable, injurious.
However, we should not denounce those who in a proper spirit express
their dissent in respect to the date mentioned and what may be there
expected; nor should we feel aggrieved toward them. We should
recognize the individual rights of all, and treat everybody according
to the Golden Rule. Nor should we feel at liberty to express our views
more dogmatically than we would think right for others to do in
expressing their views.
***
The fact is that, notwithstanding the strength of our position and our
hope that it may be true, it is nevertheless of faith and not of
knowledge. To some, faith in the matter may become almost as strong
and convincing as knowledge. Nevertheless, it is not knowledge, it is
faith. We must admit that there are possibilities of our having made a
mistake in respect to the chronology, even though we do not see where
any mistake has been made in calculating the Seven Times of the
Gentiles as expiring about October 1, 1914.
If others feel equally convinced respecting some other date which does
not appeal to us, we should not on that account reject them as members
of the Body of Christ. Rather, we should say, Whether you or we have
the date correct, we must all agree that the signs of the times as we
read them indicate clearly that the Master is nigh, even at the door;
and that His Kingdom is soon due to begin to take control. This means
that, whether within one year or within ten or twenty years, the
things which we are expecting will surely be accomplished. The Church
will be gathered, the Messianic Reign of Righteousness will begin,
preceded, as foretold, by the great Time of Trouble.
***
Our statement in October 15th issue that we have never mentioned
October, 1914, as an infallibly sure date, either for the ending of
the "Times of the Gentiles" or for any particular occurrence, has been
called in question by one of our readers. We are cited to the
following words of STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES, Vol. II.: "Now bear in
mind the date already found for the beginning of these Gentile Times,
viz., 606 B.C., while we proceed to examine the evidence proving their
length to be 2520 years--ending A.D. 1914....In view of this strong
Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an
established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world and
the full establishment of the Kingdom of God will be accomplished at
the end of 1914."
We hold that nothing in these quotations declares the infallibility of
the theories we suggested respecting 1914. In these statements, and in
all of our statements, we have merely informed our readers respecting
our views and the processes of our reasoning on the Scriptures which
we have brought to their attention. Thus we have asked each reader to
think and judge for himself, and to agree or disagree with us
according to his own judgment of the facts.
Notice that in the above quotations no dogmatic statement is made, but
that the reader is requested to use his own intellect. For instance,
note the words, "bear in mind"; again, "while we proceed to examine
the evidence"; again the reference to "Bible evidence." In the last
sentence the author sums up his own views, declaring what he considers
to be the truth established by the evidences which he sets before his
readers
In this respect we believe that THE WATCH TOWER presentations differ
considerably from others. We state with positiveness the opinions of
the writer and the reasons therefor, but leave the final decision with
each head and heart in all matters, without attempting more.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r5348.htm
++++++++
1913:: "Let Your Moderation Be Known", ZWT, June 1, 1913, page 167,
Reprints 5249
We take this occasion to remind our readers afresh that nowhere in our
writings have they found anything positively stated respecting the
closing years of this Age, except that we understand that the Gentile
Times will close in October 1914, and that consequently we expect,
speedily following that date, the transfer of the rulership of earth
to the great King of Glory, in a "time of trouble such as never was
since there was a nation." We have pointed out that prior to that date
a testing work will be in progress in the Church--a time in which the
question will be, not so much, who will fall? as, who shall be able to
stand in this evil day?--Eph. 6:11.
We did in discussing the Great Pyramid--STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES
Series--suggest that possibly a certain measurement of the step at the
upper end of the Grand Gallery might signify something important by
the end of 1910. But we hope that we made it clear that we built
nothing on that suggestion--that it was merely a suggestion, a guess
only, but a pointer that the year 1911 might be looked to with
interest. We may say, however, that every year now is bound to be full
of interest and activity of thought, both to our readers and the
entire civilized world.
***
Indeed, as respects the date 1914, which we have emphasized, and
respecting which we have repeatedly expressed our faith, our
conviction--even respecting this date we have never knowingly spoken
in infallible terms. We have always admitted that it is a matter of
faith and conviction, rather than of absolute knowledge. We invite a
careful re-examination of the chapter on chronology, as such a reading
will prove helpful, sobering. Therein we point out that if our
knowledge were wholly based upon chronology we would be far from
certain of the date-- that our faith in it is based largely upon the
corroboration, interlacing and intermeshing of various prophecies
which seem to prove the reliability of the Bible chronology and of our
use of it in connection with this date.
***
This is the Good Tidings of God's grace in Christ-- whether the
completion of the Church shall be accomplished before 1914 or not. Let
us preach the Message of God's grace, and let our hearts be stimulated
with God's Message through the Prophets, to the effect that the
blessing is nigh at hand. Let our moderation be manifest to all, and
let the fact that we know only in part and understand only in part
help to keep us humble and moderate in word and deed and thought. Thus
we shall best serve the interests [R5250 : page 168] of our Master and
His Cause, and be most in harmony with the teachings of His Word.
It is our conviction that the great time of trouble will come upon the
world through the great Adversary, Satan, and his fallen host. It will
not surprise us to find evidences accumulating that the work of
breaking down the human will through hypnotism, etc., is all a part of
the great scheme by which shortly, gradually, increasingly, power will
be exercised upon the minds of mankind--to excite them to unwisdom and
to passion. Such of God's children as shall have learned the lessons
of His Word along the lines of moderation of thought, rest of heart in
the Lord, patient waiting for His time and way, and assisted by the
Vow to careful self inspection and government daily, will be greatly
blessed and by this means kept from the snare of the Adversary--the
hour of temptation is coming upon all that dwell upon the face of the
whole earth.--Rev. 3:10.
http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/r5249.htm
==============
==============
There is more that can be found on the website in the link given
earlier.
In service if Jesus,
Ronald
^..^
Ravyn Guiliani
My Blog URL
http://blog.myspace.com/ravynz_roost
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
ResLight
anyone in particular.
There are many statements in books and on the internet to the effect
that *nothing* Brother Russell predicted concerning 1914 came true.
*This is not true.* The time of trouble did begin in 1914, and this
was the main thing that Brother Russell had been predicting since
1904. The lease of Gentile rulership, as represented in
Nebuchadnezzar's dream image, did end in 1914, and this is what
Brother Russell had predicting for almost 40 years before 1914.
There are some statements in the internet and in printed material,
etc., to the effect that Brother Russell was predicting the "end of
the world" in 1914. *This is at least misleading.* Brother Russell did
not even believe in the "end of the world" as that term is usually
used. The "end of the age", which is often mistranslated as "end of
the world", he believed was a period of time which had begun in 1874.
He did not believe in that in 1914 human society would suddenl come to
an end. He certainly did not believe that the planet earth, the sun,
moon and stars would come to an end. Brother Russell seldom used the
expression "end of the world".
The Watchtower leaders in recent decades have stated that the
Watchtower had predicted for many years that Christ's parousia would
begin in 1914. *This is not true.* Brother Russell never predicted
Christ's parousia to begin in 1914; ever since 1876, and until his
death, he believed that the parousia had begun in 1874.
Some have claimed that Brother Russell foretold Christ's return in
1914, and when that didn't happen, he stated that Christ returned
invisibly in 1914. *This is entirely untrue*. Ever since 1876, Russell
believed that Jesus returned invisibly in 1874, and continued to
believe this until the day he died in 1916. His belief in this did not
change after 1914.
The Watchtower leaders have made statements that for many years before
1914, "Jehovah's Witnesses" preached that the time of the end was to
begin in 1914. *This is not true*. Aside from the fact that there was
not JW organization, and no "Jehovah's Witnesses" in those days, I
don't know of anyone who was teaching that the "time of the end" was
begin in 1914. Russell certainly did not teach this. He believed that
the "time of the end" had already begun in 1799.
There are many statements on the internet and in printed material that
Russell was a prophet, and present his statements as though they were
prophecy. Some even speak of him as "self proclaimed prophet." This is
not true, as Russell many times denied being a prophet, or that his
statements should never be taken as infallible, especially regarding
future events. Some short to-the-point quotes from Russell:
"Our own views are not prophecy, but interpretations of the holy
prophets of old." (Watch Tower, October 1890, page 8) "We are not
prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises, the Scriptural basis
for which is already in the hands of our readers in the six volumes of
SCRIPTURE STUDIES." (Watch Tower, January 1, 1908, page 5). "I am not
a prophet." (What Pastor Russell Said, Q272:1, 1910)
Nevertheless, there are some things in Drew's posts that I believe are
not entirely correct:
"Nothing the Watchtower claimed that would happen before or on 1914
ever happened." "Not only did everything they proclaimed before the
date not happen, everything they said that was tied to that date in
the future didn't happen as well!"
These statements are not true. For ten years before 1914, Brother
Russell, through the Watchtower, had taught to expect that the "time
of trouble" would begin in 1914, which was shown to include revolution
(using the French revolution as the prelude and example), which
certainly indicates war. Brother Russell also many times stated that
he did not know for sure what would happen in 1914, or following 1914,
except that the times of Gentiles were marked to end at that time. By
implication, this would mean that God's kingdom would be established,
and that the nations, represented in Nebuchadnezzar's dream image,
would be smitten at the beginning of the Biblical year 1915 (around
October 1914). He cited the rise of Socialism, as well as "democratic"
influences, as a possible means of revolution.
Three different thoughts were presented, at least *nine* years before
1914, as to how long the time of trouble would last (1) for one year
(that is, around October 1915, according to our modern calendar;
Brother Russell stated this in a genearl way in 1904; Brother John
Edgar presented a parallel to support this view, which was printed in
the Watch Tower in 1905; (2) that it could end in six years after 1914
(that is, around October, 1922, according to our modern calendar; this
view was presented by Brother U. G. Lee, and was printed in the Watch
Tower in 1905); (3) or, that the time of trouble could go on for an
unknown amount years after 1914 (this was stated several times by
Brother Russell).
In 1909, Brother Russell was asked:
(1909)--l--How long after 1914 do you think the present conditions of
sickness, suffering, and the Adamic death will continue?
I suppose the brother means 1915. [[Brother Russell viewed the Bible
year of 1915 as beginning in October of the year on our modern
calendar of 1914]] Some things in the Scriptures imply that it might
last for seven years, and others one year, but there is nothing
definite. Adamic death, sickness, pain and suffering will last until
the individual accepts Christ--there is no life outside of Christ. It
shall be made known to every creature, and this knowledge and blessing
and outpouring of the Holy Spirit shall go to Israel and gradually to
the whole world, to all families, and they will recognize the Mediator
and the Covenant and the channel of God's providences to Israel in the
flesh, and see the earthly kingdom established, and as they come into
harmony with this, sin and death will gradually fade away, and they
will live. He that hath the Son hath life, but he that hath not the
Son shall not see life, he shall still continue in death.
In 1911, Brother Russell was asked:
>>>>
How long after the end of the time of the Gentiles will it be before
the first of the dead are awakened from the tomb.?
ANSWER--I don't know. I might do a little guessing. Guessing would not
be very satisfactory, but our guess would
be that after the times of the Gentiles come to a conclusion there
will be a great time of trouble as the Scriptures clearly point out--
trouble as never was since there was a nation. Then, following that
trouble would come the reign of righteousness, blessings, increase of
knowledge, God's favor among men, and the living nations would all be
more or less brought to a knowledge of the Lord. How long that would
require I do not know.<<<
In those ten years before 1914, Brother Russell believed that shortly
after 1914, Israel would be restored to the promised land. In 1918, as
a direct result of the "Great War", the Balfour Declaration gave the
Jews the right to return to the promised land.
=========
Drew stated:
"Watchtower eventually took on a mode of thinking that 1914 wasn't a
date that was the end, but the beginning."
This seems to indicate that the Watchtower took on this mode of
thinking *after* 1914, not before. In actuality, it was ten years
***before*** 1914 that CTR saw that the time of trouble was to begin
in 1914, not end in 1914. (Drew does not state what he means by "end",
but from Brother Russell's standpoint, in would have been the end of
the time of trouble.) From 1904 on up to 1914 CTR proclaimed that
1914 was not the end of time of trouble, but rather the beginning of
that time of trouble. Nevertheless, even before 1904, he never
expected the "end of the world" in 1914 or any other date, as that
term is generally used. He believed that the end of age (the end of
the world in many translations) had already begun in 1874. Even before
1904, he did not expect that human society would suddenly end in 1914,
but he was expecting the monarchial kingdoms of the Roman World to
come to an end. Before 1904, he thought that his would mean that the
time of trouble would begin some time before 1914 so as to accomplish
the downfall of these kingdoms by about October of 1914. In 1904, he
began to believe that October of 1914 (which he claimed as the
beginning of 1915, counting Biblical years as beginning in the spring)
would mark the beginning of that time of trouble, and these kingdoms
would fall shortly after the end of 1914, which, indeed, they did. The
great monarchs as kings that constituted remnants of the Old Roman
Empire are either gone altogether, or else are subjected to some form
of democratic arrangement.
Brother Russell was expecting the stone to hit the image representing
these kingdoms in 1914, and that the kingdoms of this world
represented in that image would gradually fall apart, although he did
not expect it take so long. (Bible Students today are split in opinion
on whether the stone struck the image in 1914.) Regardless, certainly
the great empires that came about as the result of the Roman Empire
have been gradually separating into smaller "nations", especially
since 1914. If the United States is included in this splitting up, we
might expect that eventually we might even see various states of this
union withdrawing from the union and establishing themselves as
separate and independent "nations". If and when this does happen, I
can see how world-wide anarchy could follow shortly.
=======
Drew wrote:
For decades the WTS held that 1914 and the End of the world where tied
togeather in the most crucial way.
The above statement can, at least, be misinterpreted. Brother Russell
did not believe in the "end of the world" as that term is generally
used. He did not even believe in the same concept of "Armageddon" as
the JWs now present.
==========
Drew wrote:
"They taught that the generation of 1914 would never see death." "The
generation that was not going to pass away is passing away before our
eyes."
It is not clear from what Drew wrote if it is thought this was a
teaching of Russell or not. The way it reads, one could assume that
this is what Russell taught before 1914. The closest I can find in his
writings that could be assumed to teach this would a few statements in
his book on *The Battle of Armageddon*, but even there it is not
presented that the generation living in 1914 would not see death, but
he speaks of the generation as from 1878 to 1914 as seeing the
sprouting of the tree representing Israel. Nevertheless, some of his
later statements would modify what he wrote in his earlier book.
For more on Charles Taze Russell, see:
http://ctr.reslight.net/
Christian love,
Ronald
----- Original Message -----
From: ^..^
To: jehovahs...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Answer to Drew from a JW
pal...@juno.com
We must admit that Russel was a Numerologist just as the present day JWs are.Now don't go denying this because the defintion of the term is the study of dates and numbers and giving significance to them. Or what was or is 1914, 1919, 1925, 1936, 1975 and the upcoming 2036 all about? Secondly Russel was a Pyramidologist. Just look at the extensive writings he did on the subject. Thirdly he was connected to the Masons. Many of the early books and magazines have Masonic and occult symobols on them. Lastly the Masons practice a ceremony that is the same as the Memorial. They pass the emblems and do not partake of them. But they do not partake because they are denying Christ not because they believe in an earthly hope. Oh yes, My new email addy will be cultb...@verizon.net please make a note of this . Marco
ResLight
it today - hope it goes through.
On Mar 13, 10:39 am, "pal...@juno.com" <pal...@juno.com> wrote:
> We must admit that Russel was a Numerologist just as the present day JWs are.Now don't go denying this because > the defintion of the term is the study of dates and numbers and giving significance to them
Numerology: The study of the occult meanings of numbers and their
supposed influence on human life.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=numerology
http://machaut.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/WEDT1.sh?word=numerology
numerology
SYL: nu-mer-ol-o-gy
PRO: nu mE ra lE ji
POS: noun
DEF: a study of such numbers as those denoting the year of one's
birth, to determine their supposed influence on one's character and
life.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=numerology
Main Entry: nu·mer·ol·o·gy
Pronunciation: "nü-m&-'rä-l&-jE, "nyü-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin numerus + English -o- + -logy
Date: 1911
: the study of the occult significance of numbers
- nu·mer·o·log·i·cal /-m&-r&-'lä-ji-k&l/ adjective
- nu·mer·ol·o·gist /-m&-'rä-l&-jist/ noun
Russell never had anything to do with "numerology". I will deny the
statement that Russell was a numerologist, since it is not true.
However, Russell did write several things about the significance of
numbers in the Bible; most of what he wrote is similar to Bullinger's
as well as many other writings by various Christians from many
denominations. Indeed, it this is what one would term a numerologist,
then God himself is a numerologist, since he is the one who gives
credence to number having meaning in the Bible itself.
> Or what was or is 1914, 1919, 1925, 1936, 1975 and the upcoming 2036 all about?
The date 1914, Russell obtained from several different lines of
prophetic study in the Bible, not from numerology. I don't know that
any of the other dates have anything to do with Russell.
> Secondly Russel was a Pyramidologist.
Nothing at all wrong with that, although I doubt that Russell would
have described himself by this term.
Adam Rutherford defines the word "pyramidology" as "the science that
deals with the Great Pyramid's scientific demonstration of Biblical
truth, true Christianity and the Divine plan respecting humanity on
this planet. One who is skilled in this science is therefore defined
as a Pyramidologist." (Pyramidology, Book 1, page 11) On page 13, he
writes: "Pyramidology is the science which coordinates, combines and
unifies science and religion, and is thus the meeting place of the
two. When the Great Pyramid is properly understood and universally
studied, false religions and erroneous scientific theories will alike
vanish, and true religion and true science will be demonstrated to be
harmonious." The word is of late origin, and, as far as I have been
able to determine, was not in use in Brother Russell's day. As
defined, it would apply, not to one who simply believes the Great
Pyramid was designed by God but who is not skilled in the study, but
rather one who is "skilled in this science." Russell himself relied
heavily on others regarding the Great Pyramid, and I doubt that he,
himself, would have claimed to have been "skilled" in this study.
Although he visted the Great Pyramid, he never personally had the time
to do a genuine on-site study of the pyramid. The earliest usage of
the word, pyramidology, I have been able to find is that of Adam
Rutherford. I suspect that either he or his father (John Rutherford)
may have coined the word. Neither Russell or the Edgars ever used the
word pyramidology. I might add that Adam Rutherford used the term
"religion" as meaning the Biblical religion, not spiritism, occultism,
etc.
(Do not confuse Adam and John Rutherford with Joseph "Judge"
Rutherford.)
However, In the past few decades, certain spiritists have begun to use
the word "pyramidology" in the spiritistic practices, but that is not
the original meaning for which the word was coined, nor did Russell,
the Edgar brothers, John or Adam Rutherford, believe in such
spiritistic practices. Nor do Bible Students today believe in such
practices.
http://gp.reslight.net
> Just look at the extensive writings he did on the subject.
Actually, he did not write much on the subject at all. In comparison
with about 50,000 to 60,000 pages of his published works, probably
less than 400 pages are concerning the Great Pyramid, and even many of
these pages were written by others, not by Russell himself. John and
Morton Edgar, however, did write several books and booklets on the
Great Pyramid. Russell did write extensively on developing
Christlikeness, many, many times over what he wrote about the Great
Pyramid.
> Thirdly he was connected to the Masons. Many of the early books and magazines have Masonic and occult symobols > on them.
Almost anything can be used for spiritistic occult purposes, including
the cross, poles, lights, candles, cakes, buns, sun, moon, planets,
stars, animals, trees, plants, leaves, teas, the Bible, triangles (and
other shapes), etc.
The word "occult" has several different shades of meanings, and
properly used, it can even describe the message of the Bible. However,
in general usage today by most Christians and many others, it
describes a practice of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any
system claiming ritualistic use and knowledge of demonic powers or
agencies. Russell never practiced such occultism.
Nor did Russell use any "Masonic" symbols in his publications. The
cross and crown symbol has long been used by churches, long before
Russell used it, and before the Knights Templar used it. The Knights
Templars will simply tell you they obtained the symbol from
traditional church usage. The winged-sun-disk symbol came from Egypt,
not the Masons. Russell probably saw in the winged-sun disk a
symbolism of Malachi 4:2, even as he saw the cross and crown symbol to
represent Revelation 2:10. Some believe that the Egyptians obtained
this symbol from the Hebrews. Nevertheless, in both cases, I believe
it would have better had he not used either of these symbols, both of
which are associated with idolatry, but his use of these symbols does
not prove anything about him being a freemason, or an occultist.
The only "connection" I have found that Russell had with any of the
Masons was that he arranged to rent meeting rooms from various Masonic
Lodges. However, he had this same kind of connection with many
different churches, goverment authorities, hotels, commercial
convention centers, and other groups -- that is, he arranged to rent
rooms from meetings from many different groups and organizations, not
just the Masons.
> Lastly the Masons practice a ceremony that is the same as the Memorial. They pass the emblems and do not partake of them. But they do not partake because they are denying Christ not because they believe in an earthly hope.
>
This seems to describe the JWs memorial celebration, which has nothing
to do with Russell, since he did not even believe in such an
organization. The memorial celebration arranged by Jesus has nothing
to do with Freemasons organization.
In service of Jesus,
Ronald
Ravyn Guiliani
Drew Sagan
to confront JWs and their interpretations of Russell and his
teachings.
I have no true interest in discussing Russellism outside of the area
of the JWs. What I mean by this is simply that regardless of what
C.T. Russell did and did not do JWs will say anything about him that
they need to in order to uphold their organization.
The major point in my rant (because that's all it really was) was to
simply point out some basic weaknesses that are apparent in current JW
theology. While 'Bible Students' are rather candid as regards what
was going on during that time the WTS is certainly not.
-drew
Mathew allan allan
severe depression from a life time of beatings has been told that her mental
state is due to her still being on freindly terms with her disfellow shiped
son. My mother is on very important medication to stop suicidal thoughts and
to keep her brain chemicles balanced. The so called elder told her if she
hadent lost jehovahs holy spirit she wouldnt need any medication. So she
ended up attemping suicide after droping her medication. I will hold them
liable if any thing happens to her and they will see that they are not as
untouchable as they think from the law.
>From: "Drew Sagan" <drew...@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: jehovahs...@googlegroups.com
>To: "jehovahs-witnesses" <jehovahs...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: Re: Answer to Drew from a JW
_________________________________________________________________
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Drew Sagan
I think now would be a good time to consider having a letter sent to
that congregation by your lawyer. Don't let them have power they do
not deserve.
-Drew