Introductions!

[Dominick Accattato]

Hello Group!

Many of you already know each other from the Red5 group.  heh, actually it's one reason your being invited here to join this project.  Jedai is something of a baby of mine and I've seen it grow for quite some time.  Some of you have tried it, and some of you have just taken peeks and found that things seemed difficult to understand without documentation.  These are the things that the jedai team will strive to get out there for you all.  Also, you can be assured that Jedai is going to be a 1st class citizen with Red5 and the Red5Plugin.  Why?  well I'm a core dev on those teams as well so I'll try to keep these projects in lock step.  So you're all probably wondering how you can help this project grow from it's 0.1 beta to a mature oss project!  Simple, we need people to give ideas, document, write tutorials, test the eclipse code generation and anything else in between.  Even just providing feedback is helpful to the team.  In addition, you could spread the word and ask others to join the mailing list.  The more the merrier.  This project is open source and I'd like it to become the de-facto in networking applications on the flash platform....  Anyways, thanks for joining and please feel free to ask questions.  I'll try to get some tutorials up for getting started soon.  cheers! 

--
Dominick Accattato, CTO
Infrared5 Inc.
www.infrared5.com

[Christophe NEY]

Hello Dominick,

Thanks for activating this group!

Let me introduce ourself,

As you may know Pierre Augier and I are currently investigating jedai
for building enterprise level video conferencing systems. Pierre's work is
done with the support of a research team at INRIA (french national
research center in computer science), while I am myself on the business
side, doing consulting and working with Web2.0 start-ups.

We have now about a year of experience with Red5 in production
for video conferencing and  video recording. The client side
of this work was done on OpenLaszlo plus some custom
components. Laszlo approach is actually very similar to flex and
somehow to jedai and we  do recognize the high value of patterns
you are promoting.

The tooling was really what was missing in Laszlo and your choice
of Eclipse is from my point of view a perfect one (I was involved
in WTP in it's early stage, so I can't say it is a bad choice ;-)). 
I actually also do like the approach  with three separate projects
you have taken, the only weakness from my point of view being
the dependency upon flexBuilder (which is not that difficult to
remove using ant).

Your move on activating this google group is happening at the
perfect time for us, we have started our evaluation of jedai, and
it is our understanding that jedai is still alpha code (at least what
was  committed) and that there are fixes to make to run your
default  example. I have now problem with this, and we can provide
patches or even commit them, but you may want to clarify this
aspect so that we don't work on things that are already fixed
on your local machine.

Thanks again for this great project,
Looking forward working with you

Note: we will start technical discussion on separate email messages.

Christophe


Dominick Accattato a écrit :

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Christophe NEY - Advanced IT Expertise and Consulting
email: christophe.ney <at> batisseurs.com
tel: +33 8 70 35 85 53
mobile: +33 6 61 48 85 53
skype: cney-mac
bio: http://christophe.batisseurs.com/en
-------------------------------------------------------

[Dominick Accattato]

great!

yeah, it's alpha code and I think that a good starting point will be
when Red5 0.7.1 is released. The reason why is that the serverside
code for jedai needs to reflect the configuration changes made since
0.7.1. In addition the plugin code generation has to be changed. I'm
not a big fan of Lazlo, but it's a personal choice to stick with Flex.
There's just too much momentum right now in Flex for me to look at
alternatives. However, the project was never meant to have
dependencies on Flex except for the Flex UI components. The network
code should be unaware of whether it's pure AS3 or Flex. We'll have
to look into this more to make sure. Anyway, yes we can start another
thread to talk about what can be done in the mean time while Red5
prepares for the release of 0.7.1 sometime in the next month.

On Sep 17, 4:10 am, Christophe NEY <christophe....@batisseurs.com>
wrote:

> Infrared5 Inc.www.infrared5.com-- ------------------------------------------------------- Christophe NEY - Advanced IT Expertise and Consulting email: christophe.ney <at> batisseurs.com tel: +33 8 70 35 85 53 mobile: +33 6 61 48 85 53 skype: cney-mac bio:http://christophe.batisseurs.com/en-------------------------------------------------------

[Christophe NEY]

Dominick,
Thanks for the fast answer!

I let Pierre do a first list of fixes we have already made, and questions that have raised,  and
how we suggest to remove the  FlexBuilder dependency with ant task, then we can figure-out
how we work the integration (patches, direct commits, bug reports,...)

Sincerely,

Hello Dominick,
Thanks for activating this group!
Let me introduce ourself,
As you may know Pierre Augier and I are currently investigating jedai
for building enterprise level video conferencing systems. Pierre's work is
done with the support of a research team at INRIA (french national
research center in computer science), while I am myself on the business
side, doing consulting and working with Web2.0 start-ups.
We have now about a year of experience with Red5 in production
for video conferencing and  video recording. The client side
of this work was done on OpenLaszlo plus some custom
components. Laszlo approach is actually very similar to flex and
somehow to jedai and we  do recognize the high value of patterns
you are promoting.
The tooling was really what was missing in Laszlo and your choice
of Eclipse is from my point of view a perfect one (I was involved
in WTP in it's early stage, so I can't say it is a bad choice ;-)). 
I actually also do like the approach  with three separate projects
you have taken, the only weakness from my point of view being
the dependency upon flexBuilder (which is not that difficult to
remove using ant).
Your move on activating this google group is happening at the
perfect time for us, we have started our evaluation of jedai, and
it is our understanding that jedai is still alpha code (at least what
was  committed) and that there are fixes to make to run your
default  example. I have now problem with this, and we can provide
patches or even commit them, but you may want to clarify this
aspect so that we don't work on things that are already fixed
on your local machine.
Thanks again for this great project,
Looking forward working with you
Note: we will start technical discussion on separate email messages.
Christophe
Dominick Accattato a écrit :Hello Group!
Many of you already know each other from the Red5 group.  heh, actually it's one reason your being invited here to join this project.  Jedai is something of a baby of mine and I've seen it grow for quite some time.  Some of you have tried it, and some of you have just taken peeks and found that things seemed difficult to understand without documentation.  These are the things that the jedai team will strive to get out there for you all.  Also, you can be assured that Jedai is going to be a 1st class citizen with Red5 and the Red5Plugin.  Why?  well I'm a core dev on those teams as well so I'll try to keep these projects in lock step.  So you're all probably wondering how you can help this project grow from it's 0.1 beta to a mature oss project!  Simple, we need people to give ideas, document, write tutorials, test the eclipse code generation and anything else in between.  Even just providing feedback is helpful to the team.&nb
sp; In addition, you could spread the word and ask others to join the mailing list.  The more the merrier.  This project is open source and I'd like it to become the de-facto in networking applications on the flash platform....  Anyways, thanks for joining and please feel free to ask questions.  I'll try to get some tutorials up for getting started soon.  cheers! 
--
Dominick Accattato, CTO
Infrared5 Inc.www.infrared5.com-- ------------------------------------------------------- Christophe NEY - Advanced IT Expertise and Consulting email: christophe.ney <at> batisseurs.com tel: +33 8 70 35 85 53 mobile: +33 6 61 48 85 53 skype: cney-mac bio:http://christophe.batisseurs.com/en-------------------------------------------------------
    

[Jonathan Valliere]

Christophe,

I don't believe there are any Flex (Presentation Framework) dependencies outside of the component's implementation besides mx.controls.Alert in Red5BootStrapper.  The project goal still includes developing UI components for several frameworks ( Flex/Lazlo/etc).  Theoretically, Lazlo controls would go in jedai.controls.lazlo and so on and so forth.  As far as requiring Flex Builder to build the project... I don't see any reason why ANT scripts can't be added so you can build the project using the Terminal/ANT.  Is that what your trying to get at?

Jon Valliere
www.emoten.com

[Jonathan Valliere]

FlexBuilder versus what?  Powerflasher FDT?  If you want to build the project using ANT tasks there is no real reason why you need to remove the FlexBuilder Project files (.project, .actionScriptProperties .flexLibProperties .settings ).

[Dominick Accattato]

which leads me to my partner in crime.  Group, meet Jon Valliere!  Jon is the other main dev on the team.  Some history is needed to explain how Jedai was first created.  Wayyy back, we at Infrared5 were getting a lot of requests to build social communication applications.  My goal was to create a framework that could be used again and again to build these types of applications.  A first iteration was completed and we used it to demo some of Red5's capabilities.  Sure enough, a client came on and had an idea to build one of these things ;).  We offered to use this framework in return for the code to remain open source.  That project allowed for Jon and I to rebuild much of the framework with a greater goal in mind.  We were able to build services with registries and introduce a IoC container as the bootstrapping mechanism.  Last, we were able to add a UI component set that could allow for rad development of live applications.  At this point, Chris Allen started to demonstrate Jedai at numerous conferences.  I also spoke to Trevor Burton who is now an IR5 team member :) about looking into the possibility of using jedai as paperworld3d's networking layer.  That integration is still in progress as I try to find more ways for it to integrate and remove networking responsibility from paperworld3d.  So here we are today, an open source framework that we're hoping to help others build amazing applications!

[Christophe NEY]

Jonathan Valliere a écrit :

Christophe,

I don't believe there are any Flex (Presentation Framework) dependencies outside of the component's implementation besides mx.controls.Alert in Red5BootStrapper.  The project goal still includes developing UI components for several frameworks ( Flex/Lazlo/etc).  Theoretically, Lazlo controls would go in jedai.controls.lazlo and so on and so forth.  As far as requiring Flex Builder to build the project... I don't see any reason why ANT scripts can't be added so you can build the project using the Terminal/ANT.  Is that what your trying to get at?

Jonathan,
Maybe I was not clear or the mail was too long :-)
I am only talking about flex builder dependencies not flex components, and as I said it is just
a matter of writting a few ant tasks to get the swf and swc compiled.
Christophe

[Christophe NEY]

Jonathan Valliere a écrit :

FlexBuilder versus what?  Powerflasher FDT?  If you want to build the project using ANT tasks there is no real reason why you need to remove the FlexBuilder Project files (.project, .actionScriptProperties .flexLibProperties .settings ).

I am not talking about removing FlexBuilder files, but just having the ability to compile the project
without it.

Hello Dominick,
Thanks for activating this group!
Let me introduce ourself,
As you may know Pierre Augier and I are currently investigating jedai
for building enterprise level video conferencing systems. Pierre's work is
done with the support of a research team at INRIA (french national
research center in computer science), while I am myself on the business
side, doing consulting and working with Web2.0 start-ups.
We have now about a year of experience with Red5 in production
for video conferencing and  video recording. The client side
of this work was done on OpenLaszlo plus some custom
components. Laszlo approach is actually very similar to flex and
somehow to jedai and we  do recognize the high value of patterns
you are promoting.
The tooling was really what was missing in Laszlo and your choice
of Eclipse is from my point of view a perfect one (I was involved
in WTP in it's early stage, so I can't say it is a bad choice ;-)). 
I actually also do like the approach  with three separate projects
you have taken, the only weakness from my point of view being
the dependency upon flexBuilder (which is not that difficult to
remove using ant).
Your move on activating this google group is happening at the
perfect time for us, we have started our evaluation of jedai, and
it is our understanding that jedai is still alpha code (at least what
was  committed) and that there are fixes to make to run your
default  example. I have now problem with this, and we can provide
patches or even commit them, but you may want to clarify this
aspect so that we don't work on things that are already fixed
on your local machine.
Thanks again for this great project,
Looking forward working with you
Note: we will start technical discussion on separate email messages.
Christophe
Dominick Accattato a écrit :Hello Group!
Many of you already know each other from the Red5 group.  heh, actually it's one reason your being invited here to join this project.  Jedai is something of a baby of mine and I've seen it grow for quite some time.  Some of you have tried it, and some of you have just taken peeks and found that things seemed difficult to understand without documentation.  These are the things that the jedai team will strive to get out there for you all.  Also, you can be assured that Jedai is going to be a 1st class citizen with Red5 and the Red5Plugin.  Why?  well I'm a core dev on those teams as well so I'll try to keep these projects in lock step.  So you're all probably wondering how you can help this project grow from it's 0.1 beta to a mature oss project!  Simple, we need people to give ideas, document, write tutorials, test the eclipse code generation and anything else in between.  Even just providing feedback is helpful to the team.&am
p;nb
sp; In addition, you could spread the word and ask others to join the mailing list.  The more the merrier.  This project is open source and I'd like it to become the de-facto in networking applications on the flash platform....  Anyways, thanks for joining and please feel free to ask questions.  I'll try to get some tutorials up for getting started soon.  cheers! 
--
Dominick Accattato, CTO
Infrared5 Inc.www.infrared5.com-- ------------------------------------------------------- Christophe NEY - Advanced IT Expertise and Consulting email: christophe.ney <at> batisseurs.com tel: +33 8 70 35 85 53 mobile: +33 6 61 48 85 53 skype: cney-mac bio:http://christophe.batisseurs.com/en-------------------------------------------------------
    

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Christophe NEY - Advanced IT Expertise and Consulting
email: christophe.ney <at> batisseurs.com

tel: +33 8 70 35 85 53
mobile: +33 6 61 48 85 53
skype: cney-mac
bio: http://christophe.batisseurs.com/en
-------------------------------------------------------

[Daniel Rossi]

Oh geez another list to filter now :)

[Dominick Accattato]

ha!  debbie downer!

[Jonathan Valliere]

lol.

Christophe,

I'm sure someone can write a ANT task to compile the project.  If you have one already we can add it to SVN.

Dom, ideas?

[Tyler Kocheran]

I guess I'll follow the previous introduction with mine. I'm glad to be a part of the group and I'm looking forward to getting to know and use Jedai!

I'm Tyler Kocheran (everyone I know calls me TK for short), and my fascination is with everything that has to do with development and design for the Flash Platform. I first discovered Red5 last year and was definitely intrigued by it to say the least. The jarring differences between it and FMS were difficult for me to grasp at first, but the prospect of working with an OOP language on the serverside was too thrilling to pass up. After finally starting to grasp Spring (and the other thousands of technologies and libraries that make Red5 work :P), I jumped headlong into the Red5 fold. Java is an amazing language and the add-in libraries such as Hibernate empower us as developers to create incredible backend systems for powerful client-side applications all in real-time and in sync. Well that's a mouthful.
I've been developing my own framework for some time now and seeing what Jedai has to offer is great. I look forward to trying it out and using it in some Flex applications, though my focus is on strict AS3 development and my framework has no dependencies on Flex. I am definitely a newbie to using Jedai seeing as I just cracked open the API last night and have yet to use it, but I can see the use in creating a component library for Red5. I'm excited to see the new possibilities that Jedai can bring to the front-end and back-end and the ease of use it can offer to us developers. I believe I speak for all of the dedicated Red5 community when I say thanks for Jedai! We're all amped to see what we can build with it and upon it, and I'm sure there are many of us that can't wait to contribute to the project!

  - TK

--
And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep;
for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed.

[Daniel Rossi]

On 18/09/2008, at 6:51 AM, Tyler Kocheran wrote:

> and I'm sure there are many of us that can't wait to contribute to
> the project!
>

If you need submissions for modifcations to NetConnection classes, I
could contribute round robin and server connect fallback features. I
already have a connect class designed for this. However what flex
framework is jedai targeted for ?? Flex 3 + 4 brings in some new
changes to the NetConnection class.

[Jonathan Valliere]

Daniel,

We don't have a in-stone code submission procedure yet.  For now just send Dominick and me a Unified Diff for the project and some explanation of what you think is fixed / added features.( maybe a short example too )  I'll go over it with Dominick and let you know what we'll add into SVN.

Thanks,
Jon

I would also like to remind everybody that the official bulletin board for Jedai is over at http://red5server.com

[Dominick Accattato]

Thanks Tyler.  Yes, I agree that many out there have been cracking away at their own frameworks for some time.  Building the wheel over and over is not very productive.  So I'm glad that your interested in the project and I look forward to your feedback and submissions.

[Dominick Accattato]

Round robin connection code sounds great!  Especially for cdn's.

[Christophe NEY]

Jonathan,
Pierre is cleaning up those build.xml files based on Flex ant task, we will provide them
in a few days.
Christophe

 Valliere a écrit :

[Daniel Rossi]

Ive used it to connect to the 3 frontend machines when the load balancer switch has gone down or not functioning correctly.

[Christophe NEY]

Hi Daniel,

We are looking at extending connection too. I actually did implement a failover connect
component in laszlo, and I would like this to work in jedai too.

Is your algorithm a pure round robin without server check, are do you have a mechanism
to skip servers that are not reacheable?

Thanks
Christophe


Daniel Rossi a écrit :

[Jonathan Valliere]

merci.

[Dominick Accattato]

when can we expect this contribution :)

[Dominick Accattato]

I think that it would be nice to see opposing spec's from Christophe and Dan to see where they overlap in functionality.  Nothing too fancy.  maybe just some diagrams and requirements and api calls.

[Daniel Rossi]

On 18/09/2008, at 4:44 PM, Christophe NEY wrote:

Hi Daniel,

We are looking at extending connection too. I actually did implement a failover connect
component in laszlo, and I would like this to work in jedai too.

Is your algorithm a pure round robin without server check, are do you have a mechanism
to skip servers that are not reacheable?

I guess these could be saved in a cache, it does not remember a failed server. IT was very simple i could be keen adding and then the smarts could be added after. 

[Daniel Rossi]

When i get back from europe second week of october ;)

[Daniel Rossi]

Mine works as is, it could probably function better though with a bit more work. 

[Dominick Accattato]

u sound pretty confident.  How bout we just start then by reviewing the code.  Hey, failover is failover.  We can always improve later ;)

[Dominick Accattato]

Daniel, will you be over at "Flash on the Beach"?  Chris and I will be there if you are!

[Daniel Rossi]

Yes if "Flash on the Beach" is in the south east coast of Italy where I am right now :D

[Tyler Kocheran]

Round robin connection code is like failover? IE: you input three URI's rather than one and if it can't connect to the first one, it goes to the second, etc? Is that what round robin is?

 - TK

[Daniel Rossi]

Thats fail over. Round robin randomly connects to one of the servers. The spread is even with the code i have.

[Tyler Kocheran]

So that would be implemented on serverside? Is there a failover system in place in Jedai for client-side failover via connections?

[Dominick Accattato]

load-balancing and failover can occur on both the clientside and the serverside.

For instance. Jedai can use round-robin to load balance and provide failover support. 

• The framework would do this by first trying to connect to a random server.  If that server rejects it because of too many connections, it would try another server from its' list. 
• The framework would also provide failover support by reconnecting or connecting to a different server when one server fails.  

This type of stuff has traditionally been done on using hardware that can determine which servers to send the client to, but implementation from the client would be useful as well.

[Dominick Accattato]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_balancing_(computing)

[Christophe NEY]

Well, which beach is it, french riviera ?

Daniel Rossi a écrit :

[Christophe NEY]

The failover algorithm I used was actually quite simple, pure client side
attempt to connect to a first server, and if this fails, pick the second one
on the list. I am using this to fail over rtmpt when rtmp fails.

I can provide the code, but this is a laszlo class.

Note: With this I didn't have to deal with security issues since I was connecting
to the same ip but on different ports.

Christophe




Dominick Accattato a écrit :

u sound pretty confident.  How bout we just start then by reviewing the code.  Hey, failover is failover.  We can always improve later ;)

[Dominick Accattato]

well, for sure we will have many different ways.  For instance, when connecting to CDN's the recommended approach is to attempt a shotgun connection.  This is basically sending out connection attempts on a bunch of different ports to see which one connects.

[Dominick Accattato]

The "Flash on the Beach" conference is in Brighton, England. http://flashonthebeach.com/

[Tyler Kocheran]

How does the server know when it has "too many connections?" Or is that something hard-coded in?

[Christophe NEY]

Daniel,

Your loadbalancing is implemented on the client side, correct?
Do you think you could skip a connection if it fails or if ttl is to high ?

[Dominick Accattato]

The server can be set to limit connection in many ways.  Through configs or through code.  These are all things that Jedai should accomplish so that applications are easier to build and understand.  I want some of this stuff to be abstracted away from the developer.

[Daniel Rossi]

On 19/09/2008, at 2:30 AM, Dominick Accattato wrote:

load-balancing and failover can occur on both the clientside and the serverside.

For instance. Jedai can use round-robin to load balance and provide failover support. 

• The framework would do this by first trying to connect to a random server.  If that server rejects it because of too many connections, it would try another server from its' list. 
• The framework would also provide failover support by reconnecting or connecting to a different server when one server fails.  

This type of stuff has traditionally been done on using hardware that can determine which servers to send the client to, but implementation from the client would be useful as well.

The production servers i work with is connected behind a shared load balancer switch which has all those smarts in it already. the load balancer ip is the first in the list if it fails it will fallback to connect directly to the servers. if the load balancer goes offline i turn on the round robin system in the code. 

[Tyler Kocheran]

I definitely agree in abstracting this away from devs. Is there a way we can examine server performance/bandwidth globally so as to automatically balance the load, rather than just a simple failover system?

[Daniel Rossi]

Calabria then off back top finland then back home to australia. i would like to visit these flash events in the states sometime, however i dont like america and have avoided the place so far :) how about we have everyone meet in australia :D

[Dominick Accattato]

yes, I've been told that the bwcheck application is working now!  Daniel is that correct?  Btw, for those of you who don't know, Daniel is one of our more recent Red5 team members.  He's done a lot with documentation, admin panel, bwcheck app, and just production level testing in general.  This dude is one hell of a bug finder ;).  And correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't come from a Java background?

[Dominick Accattato]

Daniel, you should attend "Flash on Tap".  The new dates are in May!

[Dominick Accattato]

www.flashontap.com

[Daniel Rossi]

that could be added ??

[Tyler Kocheran]

So is bwcheck its own application or integrated to all Red5 applications? Is there a way to examine memory and processor performance on Red5 for the load balancing system, or is that a part of the hardware load-balancer's job? Is Jedai targeted at 0.7.1++?
Also, I know I'm full of questions, but how does Jedai deal with the many SO problems of 0.7 for chat apps?

[Daniel Rossi]

both server and client apps are functional it does both download and upload though what is the purpose of this

[Dominick Accattato]

the purpose is to maintain control over video streaming quality.  That bwcheck code could probably tell the publisher to lower their quality.  I can see it being used in a bunch of other scenarios as well, but will have to list those.

[Tyler Kocheran]

What I'm saying is that even though the server bandwidth could be theoretically doing fine, your server could be using 100% of your memory and 100% of your processor. In this case, you wouldn't want another client to connect to this server, though the bandwidth is fine. I'm asking if load balancing works in this situation.
So is the bwcheck function its own application or integrated into ApplicationAdapter? IE: Do I have to connect to an instance of rtmp://localhost/bwcheck to check my bandwidth or can I call that from any Red5 application on the client-side?

[Daniel Rossi]

for download bandwidth it needs the server side app. ive packaged up the flex code on the client side so it can be exported as a swc. It includes the upload check code. 

[Daniel Rossi]

hi if u check the new bwcheck it uses services instead as it needs to call download + upload checks. 

[Dominick Accattato]

Dan, what I'm asking is if we can take the bw code and add it to the jedai network framework (JNF)?
it seems like network related functionality from my perspective.

[Dominick Accattato]

Tyler in terms of cpu performance, this would have to be done in the serverside code.  Definitely something worth looking into

[Jonathan Valliere]

The difference there is that the servers array is just randomly sorted. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Daniel Rossi]

maybe something to add to the red5 stats the cpu cycles and memory,

[Jonathan Valliere]

Pretty sure that's what they've been talking about?? If not I can think about pushing my failover system to it. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Jonathan Valliere]

Each server can provide status information to the client so the client can make an informed load balanced decision. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Jonathan Valliere]

What is SO?  I'm probably going to remember as soon as I get a reply. LOL. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Dominick Accattato]

SharedObject

[Dominick Accattato]

and I'm not aware of any SO problems with 0.7.  Can you point these problems out for me?

[Jonathan Valliere]

And you dont need to return anything private. All you need is a number say between 1-9 to make a determination.  

Sent from my iPhone

[Jonathan Valliere]

I don't suspect you can load balance SO without some type of cloud system. Round robin/performance availability soulfnt be a problem ??

Sent from my iPhone

[Daniel Rossi]

clustering SO has been done with the terracotta setup which is yet to go in. ive tested it and works. I believe the old cluster branch is still in the red5 source im not sure. 

[Tyler Kocheran]

Dominick, I've found a ton of SO issues with 0.7.
I pointed a few of them out here: http://www.nabble.com/0.7-SharedObjects...-once-and-for-all...-tt18266189.html#a18266189
But there are more and I haven't had the time to update them and really drill down into them. I'm currently working on a chat application which handles SO's on the server side. I'd have to explain it in depth for you to understand the bugs with it, but I can sum it up briefly. Sorry to get this post off topic, but here goes.
SharedObjects, transient or persistent, created on the serverside by ApplicationAdapter.createSharedObject() lose sync after the initial sync. When a user desires to create a chat room, they invoke a serverside method that creates the SharedObject, updates a reference in an index SO, and adds chat room information to it. When a user desires to sign on to a chat room, they invoke a serverside method which acquires the target SharedObject and appends their user object onto the end of a members array. Every client connected to my SharedObject only receives ONE update event as soon as they connect and no other update events ever. My workaround has been to add a listener to the SharedObject on the serverside and call a clientside method everytime a new user connects to the SharedObject, updating the users with the new user's info. It's one heck of a problem, and there are many problems with remote SharedObjects staying in sync that I have noticed.
I think I posted a bug report on the JIRA a while back, but I haven't gotten any response on it yet. Again, when I get the time I'm really going to drill down into the core of the problem and post a really painfully detailed description of the problem. So that's basically it in a nutshell.

[Jonathan Valliere]

That's what I meant by cloud. Terracotta. Couldn't remember the name-
plus i'm in the car. :)

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 18, 2008, at 2:12 PM, Daniel Rossi <sp...@electroteque.org> wrote:

> <mime-attachment.html>

[Tyler Kocheran]

Dominick,
I'd be interested in investigating performance through serverside code. Do you have any idea where I would start investigating this?

 - TK

[Dominick Accattato]

Not off the top of my head.  I am keeping notes of all the topics we're discussing.  These are all interesting things to look into so that's step 1.  Step 2 is looking into solutions to some of these hurdles.

[Daniel Rossi]

evil !

[Daniel Rossi]

evil !

On 19/09/2008, at 4:16 AM, Jonathan Valliere wrote:

[Daniel Rossi]

If possible could it be kept as a seperate SWC so that changes only happen once with the demo app or exportable SWC so it could be used with the bwcheck demoes. Which ever way you want. I did do the work for the red5 project though so it would be good to know it's kept open source and not for business :D

[Dominick Accattato]

well, jedai and red5 are both LGPL so there isn't a way for it to be used outside of oss.  However, an interesting point is that it would have to stay lock-step since any fixes would have to be donated back.  Maybe it does make sense to keep it as a swc for red5 and then used from jedai.

[Daniel Rossi]

On 19/09/2008, at 4:57 AM, Dominick Accattato wrote:

well, jedai and red5 are both LGPL so there isn't a way for it to be used outside of oss.  However, an interesting point is that it would have to stay lock-step since any fixes would have to be donated back.  Maybe it does make sense to keep it as a swc for red5 and then used from jedai.

Is that a pain i would like to keep this code up to date, either include a jedai SWC for the bwcheck app functionality in the red5 demo or include a exported SWC for jedai as a 'third party' or should it be 'core' functionality ? what do you think ?

[Dominick Accattato]

I'll discuss this with some people and find out.

[Daniel Rossi]

It really depends if the code is clunky and needs updating itself aswell. I did it pretty quickly before i went away and havent fully tested the upload test properly :D Download tests also have issues with latency so a 2MB connection shows up as 600k because of the lag from client to server across continents, i still yet to work out the calculation problems for this but that is a server side issue any ideas would be great :D

[Jonathan Valliere]

I think all bolt-on server/client functionality toolkit should be in Jedai. 

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