[jazz_guitar] Visualization
troglo81
Question for the more advanced players: During the learning process, what scale or chord patterns were visually memorized, and which proved useful for learning? Such as the CAGED system, or what either Mimi Fox or Jimmy Bruno refer to in their learning materials? Did you memorize all of the pattern, or variants or fragments early on as a mechanism to learn the entire set of patterns? Was there a preferred order to learning these patterns?
Best Regards this Holiday Season.
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rguitarjj
The goal is always to learn the sounds and how to find them. The basic key positions are taught by most teachers. The only point I wanted to make is that there's another way. I'm far from a great player, but I can play on changes -- and I don't know where the "five basic key positions" are. I do know how the find the notes in the scales I use. I can hear thirds and find them.
What is great about Dave's system is his emphasis on the sounds.
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Woods" <david_woods@...> wrote:
>
> The basic Five Key Positions (Shapes) are ultimately important for making
> Key changes in a tune. When the tune changes key, one of these five will
> always be within one fret of your left hand no matter where you are on the
> Fretboard. Harmonic and Melodic Minor are just temporary alterations of
> these when certain chords come around. The Five Key Positions also contain
> the arpeggios.
>
>
>
> Contrary to popular belief, a competent improviser on guitar doesn't think
> in terms of a million pre determined memorized fingerings. The object is to
> not think about fingerings at all. Hearing what you want to play in your
> head is what guides your Hands. The idea will contain chord tones, and
> diatonic and chromatic notes, and they occur in any order, mixture, and may
> even have interval leaps between registers. It's like rolling dice; you
> never know in what order the notes are going to come out. When you know
> your key positions, your fingers will just naturally go to the notes you
> hear within the Key position in any order and rhythm you hear them in,
> regardless of where they're located. The less you think, and use visualizing
> as a "crutch" the better.
>
>
>
> All Triad arpeggios are a series of Two 3rds with a 4th thrown in. All 7th
> chords are a series of three 3rds with a 2nd thrown in. ONCE YOU HEAR which
> thirds are major and which are minor, you can break free of knowing exactly
> which key position you're playing in, and play your arpeggios by interval,
> going up and down the fretboard, and all over. Your finger will not know
> what interval to reach for unless you're hearing it in your head first.
> This way, you're getting your ear training and teaching your fingers to
> reach for what you hear at the same time.
>
>
>
> Visualizing when necessary, need only be done in the moment to check which
> Key Position your left hand is in. Things like this are done in moments of
> insecurity, to touch base. As soon as your ear is re oriented, follow what
> you hear and LET your fingers find the notes.
>
>
>
> On My website, you'll see a ton of diagrams, but they're not "fingerings".
> Each one is a LITTLE MAP showing where the sounds are located within the Key
> position. I consider everything on the site ultimately important.
> Otherwise, I wouldn't have put it there. Check it out, it's a free site,
> and it may help. I answer all questions.
>
>
>
> Dave Woods http://www.jazzguitarstartingright.com
> <http://www.jazzguitarstartingright.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jazz_...@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of troglo81
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 1:45 PM
> To: jazz_...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [jazz_guitar] Visualization
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello All Jazz Guitarists:
> Question for the more advanced players: During the learning process, what
> scale or chord patterns were visually memorized, and which proved useful for
> learning? Such as the CAGED system, or what either Mimi Fox or Jimmy Bruno
> refer to in their learning materials? Did you memorize all of the pattern,
> or variants or fragments early on as a mechanism to learn the entire set of
> patterns? Was there a preferred order to learning these patterns?
> Best Regards this Holiday Season.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dave Woods
_____
Hello All Jazz Guitarists:
Question for the more advanced players: During the learning process, what
scale or chord patterns were visually memorized, and which proved useful for
learning? Such as the CAGED system, or what either Mimi Fox or Jimmy Bruno
refer to in their learning materials? Did you memorize all of the pattern,
or variants or fragments early on as a mechanism to learn the entire set of
patterns? Was there a preferred order to learning these patterns?
Best Regards this Holiday Season.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
rguitarjj
But, I eventually found a completely different way, which worked better for me. I think it would be fair to say that this is a minority view.
My approach is to learn the fingerboard so that every note is automatic. When you've done that, it shouldn't be hard to wail on a C major. You know the notes in a Cmajor and you know where all of them are, so it's easy.
To play in the key of G, all you need to do is change the F's to F#'s.
You can learn all 12 keys that way.
Then, flat the thirds and do the same for melodic minors.
Adjust the 6ths and 7ths and you'll have the other minor scales.
So, the approach is to know the notes in the chords and scales you use and know the fingerboard.
It's a lot of work. But, trying to learn four or five fingerings for each scale is even more work, it seems to me. And, when you do it with fingering patterns, you have to do even more work to make sure that you can jump into a pattern anywhere within it. Otherwise you'll end up starting them from the root.
To practice my way, get Band In a Box. Pick a tune in the key of C and start making melodies with the notes of that scale. Then transpose it into G and do it again. Do it for 12 keys. Then go back and try the same thing using melodic minors where appropriate. Don't play the notes in a particular position or starting with a particular finger. Pick starting points at random and just play.
Rick
John Amato
I really like your approach..I find it impossible to run scales up
and down the fretboard..I know most people do practice this way,
It puts me to sleep...I think running scales helps to establish
a sound in your ear..into your subconsious. .the sound of a major or
minor..as an example..so there is good reasons to practice this way.
But it seems to me it can be done your way, a bit more interesting.
In Barry Galbraith's "Fingerboard Workbook," he lays out his multi-variation
of finger combinations for scales, intervals, arpeggios, and a variety of single,
double-stop and triads. He presents his system through a logical, cohesive
method of sliding, slurring, and positioning of the fingers on exercises through
several major, Dom. 7th, Diminished and Half Dim. keys. He also covers the
Cycle of Fifths and ii/Vs.__,
One of the things I like about Barry's book is he analyzes what he's doing
over a typical solo approach over Dom. th.s Min. 7ths, Dim, etc., etc.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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r.
--- In jazz_...@yahoogroups.com, "rguitarjj" <rpjazzguitar@...> wrote:
>
> I learned a few patterns years ago from Chuck Wayne's system. He has fingerings based on four inversions of seventh chord.
>
> But, I eventually found a completely different way, which worked better for me. I think it would be fair to say that this is a minority view.
I really like your approach..I find it impossible to run scales up
and down the fretboard..I know most people do practice this way,
It puts me to sleep...I think running scales helps to establish
a sound in your ear..into your subconsious..the sound of a major or
minor..as an example..so there is good reasons to practice this way.
But it seems to me it can be done your way, a bit more interesting.
>
> >
>
troglo81
Regards.