Any Local Sencha Users?

[Chris Schumann]

My new project is using Sencha, and we could use some help setting up stores and getting things rolling.

Are there any local folks we could buy lunch for and talk to about getting started?

Thanks,
Chris

[Marc Grabanski]

Why Sencha?

--
Marc

[Chris Schumann]

Hi Marc,

We had used jQuery Mobile, but rendering SVG output was twice as slow with jQuery Mobile as without it. So it was taken out, and Sencha Touch 2 was added for its widget library. I think we have a handle on that part, but using its data modeling is new and pretty different.

If we could go back and get jQuery Mobile to be much faster, we would definitely look at that.

Chris

[Brad Jesness]

Holy crap, not yet another library or framework!! ???  It is my hope that as the new version
of JavaScript (Harmony) (with its many new aspects) approaches, that we can have
the basic raw javascript as a topic.  NO offense.

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Chris Schumann <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Marc Grabanski]

jQuery Mobile has nothing to do with SVG (it has zero features related to SVG or output of SVG)...don't understand your logic here??

Curious what Sencha touch widgets you are using? Most of the widgets seem like overkill to me but I'm interested in hearing what widgets you like and use..

--
Marc

[Danny Patterson]

I’ve been hoping that JavaScript would grow up for nearly ten years now.  But when ECMAScript 4 was killed, Microsoft and its friends made it clear that they weren’t interested in letting that happen.  So the community had to do what it could and we’re left with a ton of frameworks that try to mask the problems with all the browser DOMs and JavaScript.  The world would be a better place with ECMAScript 4, so I too am hoping for ECMAScript Harmony.  HTML and CSS have gotten their upgrades, it’s about time JavaScript got some love.

 

Danny

[Marc Grabanski]

Brad, you are confusing the need of libraries that address JavaScript deficiencies with libraries that address UI deficiencies..jQuery Mobile and Sencha are UI toolkits -- augmenting the browser's native UI features CSS/HTML/UI aimed at addressing UI deficiencies and capabilities of the browser...really have nothing to do with addressing anything as far as JavaScript (the language).

--
Marc Grabanski

Talent Evangelist & UI/UX Developer

MJG International

[Brad Jesness]

Browsers have been bad, but JavaScript (in my view) has never been bad (except the bad parts in the Appendix of Crockford's tiny book, JS: The Good Parts).  There has always been a LOT of good stuff on using JavaScript in great ways.  Harmony will just add to that. 
 
But, I disagree about JS, itself, being a problem.

[Chris Schumann]

When using the browser to render SVG, it seems that jQuery Mobile was paying attention to the nodes, or perhaps the notification of DOM changes. I'm not too sure of the details, but complex SVG pages were taking over 8 seconds to render when jQuery Mobile was active, and the same pages rendered in around 4 seconds without it.

I'm still new to SVG in browsers, and I'm no JavaScript expert yet, so I'm learning both of those and this project and my information may be incomplete, but I'm happy to dig in and learn more about all of it and get information about the details.

Chris

[Marc Grabanski]

Chris,

Since you have to manually trigger "create" method in order for jQuery Mobile to listen to the DOM updates...what you are saying doesn't make much sense to me. Could you jsfiddle what you are talking about in a bare bones test page rendering SVG in both frameworks (SVG alone, jQuery Mobile)? I'm curious to see what you were doing and if you are able to replicate the speed difference.

[Chris Schumann]

As to the widgets, I think we're looking at the card layout, list, and a nav panel. Nothing crazy.

Chris

[Brad Jesness]

Marc,

I am not confusing anything.  I don't even need no stinkin' UI.  Browsers aren't that bad nowadays.

There are some problems with JS, but they are well-known and very managable.

 

But, as you said: ".. have nothing to do with addressing anything as far as JavaScript (the language)."

(my point exactly)

[Marc Grabanski]

I don't even need no stinkin' UI.  Browsers aren't that bad nowadays.

If you don't care about UI then you should probably stick away from discussions about UI toolkits. ;)

Built-in browser UI is terrible (getting better, but still terrible)...jQuery Mobile / Sencha Touch make huge strides in this area but there is a reason why finding great UI people is increasingly difficult. UI demands are getting greater (think fight between native and HTML5) and there are only few companies like LinkedIn and Netflix who have been able to achieve smooth UI cross platform. It's more than possible, but you have to care about it a lot and there are not enough people out there who do.. but I digress..

[Chris Schumann]

Right now I only have customer data (ebooks), but any very large SVG image should do the trick. Another teammate did the comparison, and I may be able to share that code, so I'll look into that.

Chris

[Marc Grabanski]

Cool.

[Brad Jesness]

Hell, let's just wait until they fix the phones. To me a phone is in a room, connected to a cord.

Anyhow, the weaknesses is OF the phones, if you ask me.

[Josh Harris]

Mobile browsers are pretty darn bad right now.

[Brad Jesness]

You can find a good browser on a good computer with a desk top or lap top. The other

things you are talking about are phones.  Stupid phones -- and they could fix them (and

likely will and all the work-arounds will be your times wasted because you wanted to do

things mobile).  I have turned on my mobile phone a total of about 20 minutes over the last

5 years.  I have $216 worth of minutes (and I pay a flat 420 per quarter!).  You know that

mobile phone driving is drunk driving.

[Brad Jesness]

Sorry I missed the $ key (act. the Shift). I meant : $20 per quarter (i.e. per 3 months)

NOT 420 !!  Ask to use my phone to call Europe sometime. I will say: "Go ahead".

[Chris Schumann]

The first benchmark uses jquery.svg, jquery.svgdom, and jquery.mobile.
The second uses jquery.svg and sensa touch 2.0.
Still looking at setting up an example.

Chris

[Chris Schumann]

I will not be able to spend time on getting this example set up, alas.

It looks like there are no local Sencha users immediately available.

Thanks all the same, folks.

[Marc Grabanski]

Chris,

When making major development decisions like this, you should really setup tests for it and submit it to the community to figure out what is going on. I know people with experience both using and creating Sencha, using and creating jQuery Mobile, creator of jQuery SVG (Keith Wood wrote the jQuery UI Datepicker with me) and creator of RaphaelJS... ultimately it's your loss though...I was willing to help out... =P

Peace.

[Chris Schumann]

I'd very much like to help out, but I'm not the team lead, and decisions have been made "above my pay grade." I'll try to get something together in off hours.

Chris

[Marc Grabanski]

Okee dokey.