SwingX is dead, long live JavaFX (hopefully)

[robeden]

Hey guys -

I'm sure through Dick's wandering through the world of Java posts
you've probably seen Kirill Grouchnikov's blog post about the demise
of the SwingX project's funding (http://weblogs.java.net/blog/
kirillcool/archive/2008/11/sun_setting_dow.html). There's a lot of
interesting discussion going on in the SwingX forums about the
decision:
http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=52945&tstart=0
http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=52665&tstart=0

Basically it boils down to Sun throwing everything (from a desktop
Java perspective) into JavaFX.

Here's another interesting blog post about a developer moving to
flash: http://blog.sharendipity.com/were-moving-to-flash-heres-why


Personally, I tend to agree that this is a really bad decision.
Desktop Java is in trouble and killing SwingX doesn't help. Hopefully
JavaFX will be the greatest thing since sliced bread as Sun claims it
is.

Thanks for the show. I love the discussion!

Rob Eden

[sherod]

With the apparent death of JSR 295 and 296 I give thanks that we
decided to use Eclipse RCP as the basis of our desktop application
development.

[Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine]

The original "news" is about SwingX, not Swing.

How could one think Sun would do this given the work that went in 6u10
(including Nimbus), the Swing/JavaFX integration and the
NetBeans/VisualVM, etc... investment? Swing is just everywhere in
corporate custom applications and I just don't see Sun dropping such
core customers altogether. Having said this, JavaFX is indeed THE
current focus of the software client group and Sun's resources aren't
infinite AFAIK.

-Alexis

[Joshua Marinacci]

Rich has a well worded response on his blog:

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/rbair/archive/2008/11/javafx_enterpri.html

[robeden]

To be clear: they're not dropping Swing or JSR 296 (the app
framework)... just SwingX.

Rob

On Nov 8, 3:21 am, "Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine" <alexis...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> The original "news" is about SwingX, not Swing.
>
> How could one think Sun would do this given the work that went in 6u10
> (including Nimbus), the Swing/JavaFX integration and the
> NetBeans/VisualVM, etc... investment? Swing is just everywhere in
> corporate custom applications and I just don't see Sun dropping such
> core customers altogether. Having said this, JavaFX is indeed THE
> current focus of the software client group and Sun's resources aren't
> infinite AFAIK.
>
> -Alexis
>

[Casper Bang]

I think on some level the rise and success of NetBeans is actually
behind this. When Tim Boudreau released the Outline view (a kin to
SwingX's JXTreeTable), we were some wondering about why Sun would
sponsor two projects developing what's essentially the same kind of
components, yet still completely different code bases. From that point
of view, recent events can make some sense. Having bet on the
extremely open SwingX stuff and considering their somewhat wider
component repertoire, I just wished Sun would've consolidated rather
than knifed. Does the NetBeans source tree contain any date picker for
instance?! Not from what I've seen.

/Casper

[Joshua Marinacci]

Neither SwingX, nor Swing, or JSR 295 nor JSR 296 is being dropped.
Richard and I have each written posts (links below) that better
describe the situation. Swing is a big part of the client-side Java
future.

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/rbair/archive/2008/11/javafx_enterpri.html

http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=315074&tstart=0#315074

- Josh

[Casper Bang]

Thanks Josh, but FUD and politics aside and to stay at the practical
level: Am I right in asserting that people should probably favor using
components from the NetBeans tree than SwingLabs tree?

/Casper

[Joshua Marinacci]

Both projects have useful components, each with their own strengths
and weaknesses. The NB components tend to skew towards the needs of
IDEs (as you might expect.) I suggest you use the ones appropriate for
your project.
- J

[sherod]

My comment about 'apparent death' was not based on the belief either
295 or 296 were actually announced as abandoned, but since 296's last
SVN commit was 3 months ago, and up until 3 weeks ago 295 hadn't had a
commit in 12 months neither could be accused of being particularly
lively. (The world is not exactly awash with documentation or buzz
about either of them).

Anyway, its moot point. I think JavaFX is a better investment in
time, I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome.

[Vince O'Sullivan]

On Nov 8, 8:32 pm, Joshua Marinacci <jos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rich has a well worded response on his blog:
>
> http://weblogs.java.net/blog/rbair/archive/2008/11/javafx_enterpri.html

It's good to hear that - as well as Swing - SwingX, JavaFX, JSR 295,
JSR 295 (and presumably AWT) are all still going strong. As pointed
out in the responses to the above article, though, it would be better
to hear these things sooner and from Sun as a well publicised policy
or strategy.

As it is, the apparent silence (unless you know where to look for
info) combined with Sun's "Leaver Of The Week" dripfeed is combining
to create a void perfectly shaped to fit rumours.

[Tom Corbin]

Yes, but the impression I get from reading Richard Blair's response is
that Swing will have maintenance work done, otherwise it will be
JavaFX. If all they are doing is maintenance work, then I don't see
Swing moving forward. And if it doesn't move forward, it's dead.

JavaFX is of no interest to me. If I were to do something like
JavaFX, I'd use Groovy's swing builder because it does pretty much
what JavaFX does, but in a language that is really good and in which I
can do lots of other things and not be limited to JavaFX.

I think that JavaFX is a big, stupid case of NIH. Plus a desire for
control that only dooms them.

[Tom Corbin]

If the two JSR's are not being dropped - where's the blogging on
them? Where's the activity?
From outside sun, they seem pretty stagnant. I can't blame anyone
for having that impression.