The new G1 garbage collector - only for pay?

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Mario Camou

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May 29, 2009, 6:04:10 PM5/29/09
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Hi all,

Longtime listener, first time poster.

I'd like to know people's take on this SlashDot article:


"The monetization of Java has begun. Sun released the Java 1.6.0_14 JDK and JRE today which include a cool new garbage collector called G1. There is just one catch. Even though it is included in the distribution, the release notes state 'Although G1 is available for use in this release, note that production use of G1 is only permitted where a Java support contract has been purchased.' So the Oracle touch is already taking effect. WillOpenJDK be doomed to a feature-castrated backwater while all the good stuff goes into the new Java SE for Business commercial version?"

I know, it's the SlashDot crowd with all that implies, but...could this actually be the start of an increas in Sunacle's Java monetization strategy?

-Mario.

--
I want to change the world but they won't give me the source code.

Mark Derricutt

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May 29, 2009, 6:10:12 PM5/29/09
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When I first read that in the release notes my first thoughts were that it followed the statement saying (paraphrased) "this code isn't production ready, but we've shipped it anyway, its not enabled by default, and your apps mightl behave differently to what you expect, if you're going to go an enable this a production environment now and you have issues, we won't help if you don't have a support contract."

I suspect when u14+ or JDK7 ships, this support requirement would likely go away.

--
Discouragement is a dissatisfaction with the past, a distaste for the present, and a distrust of the future
- Maree De Jong, Life NZ.

blog: http://www.talios.com
podcast: http://www.illegalargument.com
skype / twitter: talios
Sent from Auckland, Auk, New Zealand

Jan Goyvaerts

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May 30, 2009, 3:20:12 AM5/30/09
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it's probably to have something to show at JavaOne  :-)

kirk

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May 30, 2009, 4:09:04 AM5/30/09
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Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> it's probably to have something to show at JavaOne :-)
G1 is not pay for play and _14 has been a target for experiential
release for almost a year. The official release is in 7.0. Until then
it's beta.

Kirk

Jan Goyvaerts

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May 30, 2009, 6:01:36 AM5/30/09
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You mean beta also for the _14 release of yesterday ? (http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/?intcmp=1281)

kirk

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May 30, 2009, 6:16:59 AM5/30/09
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Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> You mean beta also for the _14 release of yesterday ?
> (http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/?intcmp=1281)
Yes, that is why I believe it needs to be unlocked before you can use it
but since I don't have a windows machine to give it a go, I'm relying on
what Tony (the author of the G1) a while back. I'll be talking to Tony
next week at J1 to see what the current state of thinking is G1
development is.

Kirk
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:09 AM, kirk <kirk.pe...@gmail.com
> <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > it's probably to have something to show at JavaOne :-)
> G1 is not pay for play and _14 has been a target for experiential
> release for almost a year. The official release is in 7.0. Until then
> it's beta.
>
> Kirk
> >
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Mark Derricutt
> <ma...@talios.com <mailto:ma...@talios.com>
> > <mailto:ma...@talios.com <mailto:ma...@talios.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > When I first read that in the release notes my first
> thoughts were
> > that it followed the statement saying (paraphrased) "this code
> > isn't production ready, but we've shipped it anyway, its not
> > enabled by default, and your apps mightl behave differently to
> > what you expect, if you're going to go an enable this a
> production
> > environment now and you have issues, we won't help if you don't
> > have a support contract."
> >
> > I suspect when u14+ or JDK7 ships, this support requirement
> would
> > likely go away.
> >
> > --
> > Discouragement is a dissatisfaction with the past, a
> distaste for
> > the present, and a distrust of the future
> > - Maree De Jong, Life NZ.
> >
> > blog: http://www.talios.com
> > podcast: http://www.illegalargument.com
> > skype / twitter: talios
> > Sent from Auckland, Auk, New Zealand
> >
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Mario Camou
> > <mca...@tecnoguru.com <mailto:mca...@tecnoguru.com>

Jan Goyvaerts

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May 30, 2009, 6:21:36 AM5/30/09
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Apparently it's also available to linux and solaris.

kirk

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May 30, 2009, 8:54:35 AM5/30/09
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Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> Apparently it's also available to linux and solaris.
but not on Mac.. Ironically I might have a few from Apple on my
performance tuning course the week after JavaONE. I'll be probing ;-)

Kirk

>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:16 PM, kirk <kirk.pe...@gmail.com
> <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > You mean beta also for the _14 release of yesterday ?
> > (http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/?intcmp=1281)
> Yes, that is why I believe it needs to be unlocked before you can
> use it
> but since I don't have a windows machine to give it a go, I'm
> relying on
> what Tony (the author of the G1) a while back. I'll be talking to Tony
> next week at J1 to see what the current state of thinking is G1
> development is.
>
> Kirk
> >
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:09 AM, kirk
> <kirk.pe...@gmail.com <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com

Jan Goyvaerts

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May 30, 2009, 4:48:06 PM5/30/09
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The eternal Java-on-Mac problem... It's weird though. You would expect more people have macs if there was a better support for Java.

Casper Bang

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May 30, 2009, 5:40:56 PM5/30/09
to The Java Posse
I seriously doubt that. Apart from software developer tools, which
Java applications would your average user miss? Also, lacking Java
completely does not appear to have any negative effect on the sale of
iPhones.

/Casper

On 30 Maj, 22:48, Jan Goyvaerts <java.arti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The eternal Java-on-Mac problem... It's weird though. You would expect more
> people have macs if there was a better support for Java.
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM, kirk <kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > > Apparently it's also available to linux and solaris.
> > but not on Mac.. Ironically I might have a few from Apple on my
> > performance tuning course the week after JavaONE. I'll be probing ;-)
>
> > Kirk
>
> > > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:16 PM, kirk <kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com
> > > <mailto:kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > >     Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > >     > You mean beta also for the _14 release of yesterday ?
> > >     > (http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/?intcmp=1281)
> > >     Yes, that is why I believe it needs to be unlocked before you can
> > >     use it
> > >     but since I don't have a windows machine to give it a go, I'm
> > >     relying on
> > >     what Tony (the author of the G1) a while back. I'll be talking to
> > Tony
> > >     next week at J1 to see what the current state of thinking is G1
> > >     development is.
>
> > >     Kirk
>
> > >     > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 10:09 AM, kirk
> > >     <kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com <mailto:kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com>
> > >     > <mailto:kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com
> > >     <mailto:kirk.pepperd...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> > >     >     Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > >     >     > it's probably to have something to show at JavaOne  :-)
> > >     >     G1 is not pay for play and _14 has been a target for
> > >     experiential
> > >     >     release for almost a year. The official release is in 7.0.
> > >     Until then
> > >     >     it's beta.
>
> > >     >     Kirk
>
> > >     >     > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Mark Derricutt
> > >     >     <m...@talios.com <mailto:m...@talios.com>
> > >     <mailto:m...@talios.com <mailto:m...@talios.com>>
> > >     >     > <mailto:m...@talios.com <mailto:m...@talios.com>

kirk

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May 30, 2009, 5:42:20 PM5/30/09
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Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> The eternal Java-on-Mac problem... It's weird though. You would expect
> more people have macs if there was a better support for Java.
they just released _13 as a APD download so that is getting better. The
fact that Apple is considering sending a bunch of people to my
performance course says that Apple is still very much interested in
Java.. so that is encouraging news. And Attila Szegedi has a 7.0 build
floating about some where.. so I guess I'm saying I'm a bit lazy also ;-)

Kirk
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM, kirk <kirk.pe...@gmail.com
> <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > Apparently it's also available to linux and solaris.
> but not on Mac.. Ironically I might have a few from Apple on my
> performance tuning course the week after JavaONE. I'll be probing ;-)
>
> Kirk
>
> >
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:16 PM, kirk
> <kirk.pe...@gmail.com <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>

Peter Becker

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May 30, 2009, 7:30:22 PM5/30/09
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How many people really care about having the latest Java? How many of
those still use Macs? Whatever is left is the market you miss out on,
and that just doesn't seem much to me.

Peter


Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> The eternal Java-on-Mac problem... It's weird though. You would expect
> more people have macs if there was a better support for Java.
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:54 PM, kirk <kirk.pe...@gmail.com
> <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Jan Goyvaerts wrote:
> > Apparently it's also available to linux and solaris.
> but not on Mac.. Ironically I might have a few from Apple on my
> performance tuning course the week after JavaONE. I'll be probing ;-)
>
> Kirk
>
> >
> > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:16 PM, kirk
> <kirk.pe...@gmail.com <mailto:kirk.pe...@gmail.com>

Joey Gibson

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May 30, 2009, 10:12:40 PM5/30/09
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On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Peter Becker <peter.becker.de@gmail.com> wrote:

How many people really care about having the latest Java? How many of
those still use Macs? Whatever is left is the market you miss out on,
and that just doesn't seem much to me.

I have a Mac Pro and I really wish Apple would keep up with Sun's releases. The 6u13 ADC release is a good sign, but I'm not convinced yet that Apple is really (still) committed to Java. How many people were at JavaOne in 2000 (2001?) when Steve Jobs was McNealy's surprise keynote guest and said that Apple was going to make the Mac the premiere platform for Java development? I was there, and they followed through on that promise, for a while. It's been pretty sad the last two years or so. But again, the latest release is encouraging.

Joey
 
--
Blog: http://joeygibson.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/joeygibson
FriendFeed: http://friendfeed.com/joeygibson

Peter Becker

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May 31, 2009, 5:22:35 AM5/31/09
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Joey Gibson wrote:
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Peter Becker <peter.becker.de
> <http://peter.becker.de>@gmail.com <http://gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> How many people really care about having the latest Java? How many of
> those still use Macs? Whatever is left is the market you miss out on,
> and that just doesn't seem much to me.
>
>
> I have a Mac Pro and I really wish Apple would keep up with Sun's
> releases. The 6u13 ADC release is a good sign, but I'm not convinced
> yet that Apple is really (still) committed to Java. How many people
> were at JavaOne in 2000 (2001?) when Steve Jobs was McNealy's surprise
> keynote guest and said that Apple was going to make the Mac the
> premiere platform for Java development? I was there, and they followed
> through on that promise, for a while. It's been pretty sad the last
> two years or so. But again, the latest release is encouraging.
>
So you are in the second group: people who care about Java but still use
Macs. Whatever it is that makes you stay with Apple, it is probably
better for them to invest in that than a more up-to-date Java. After all
you don't care enough about Java to make you abandon their products. In
the end it is all a question of what's the bottom line.

Peter

Ryan Waterer

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May 31, 2009, 11:38:02 AM5/31/09
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Just because you own a Mac, doesn't mean that you don't care about Java.  In all the companies that I've worked for, not a single one ever was on the latest, greatest small update of Java.   In fact, the company that I work for just started switching to Java 1.5.  All but one of the 3rd party vendor software that the company uses is still on 1.4!  One of the products do not have short or mid-term plans of upgrading to 1.5 or 1.6.

Joshua Marinacci

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May 31, 2009, 12:57:39 PM5/31/09
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I suggest you all check out the latest developer preview from Apple.
It's only a few months behind the Sun release.

Peter Becker

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May 31, 2009, 5:14:15 PM5/31/09
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I'm not saying that people who use Macs don't care about Java. I'm
saying that Apple doesn't need to do much for Java to keep them.

The post I originally replied to made the assumption that having a more
up-to-date Java would be a good business strategy for Apple.

Peter



Ryan Waterer wrote:
> Just because you own a Mac, doesn't mean that you don't care about
> Java. In all the companies that I've worked for, not a single one
> ever was on the latest, greatest small update of Java. In fact, the
> company that I work for just started switching to Java 1.5. All but
> one of the 3rd party vendor software that the company uses is still on
> 1.4! One of the products do not have short or mid-term plans of
> upgrading to 1.5 or 1.6.
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Peter Becker <peter.becker.de

Ryan Waterer

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May 31, 2009, 5:57:58 PM5/31/09
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I can definitely see your point Peter.  

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not it would be a good business strategy for Apple.  I would like to think that it would, but I think to gain a lot more market share, they should focus on other things first.  Being a recent convert to the MacBook Pro laptop, I have quite enjoyed programming and playing with Java on the Mac. 

Viktor Klang

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Jun 1, 2009, 3:21:13 AM6/1/09
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All are under the assumption that it's impossible to use anything but OS X on a Mac.
--
Viktor Klang
Rockstar Developer

Joey Gibson

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Jun 1, 2009, 8:53:59 AM6/1/09
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On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Viktor Klang <viktor...@gmail.com> wrote:
All are under the assumption that it's impossible to use anything but OS X on a Mac.


No, we know it's *possible* to use something other than OSX on a Mac, we just believe it to be sacrilege! ;-)

Joey
 

Viktor Klang

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Jun 1, 2009, 1:57:05 PM6/1/09
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On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Joey Gibson <jo...@joeygibson.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:21 AM, Viktor Klang <viktor...@gmail.com> wrote:
All are under the assumption that it's impossible to use anything but OS X on a Mac.


No, we know it's *possible* to use something other than OSX on a Mac, we just believe it to be sacrilege! ;-)

I'm just sayin.... ;=)
 

fede.silva

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May 30, 2009, 1:02:04 PM5/30/09
to The Java Posse
Hi,

On May 29, 7:10 pm, Mark Derricutt <m...@talios.com> wrote:
> When I first read that in the release notes my first thoughts were that it
> followed the statement saying (paraphrased) "this code isn't production
> ready, but we've shipped it anyway, its not enabled by default, and your
> apps mightl behave differently to what you expect, if you're going to go an
> enable this a production environment now and you have issues, we won't help
> if you don't have a support contract."

The release notes say explicitely:

"note that production use of G1 is only permitted where a Java support
contract has been purchased."

so it is not just that they wont help you you are not permitted.

sigh
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