AIDE, a Java IDE running on Androd...
Fabrizio Giudici
first, primitive way to develop entirely on Android, but when you look at
the millions man hours behind projects such as NetBeans or Eclipse, and
realize that everything has to be reinvented for Android, you can't but
thinking that we love to waste our time. Just because we can't have
regular Java on Android.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/07/develop-android-using-aide-video/
--
Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager
Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere."
fabrizio...@tidalwave.it
http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it
Cédric Beust ♔
... or, how we enjoy reinventing the wheel every time. It's cool to have a first, primitive way to develop entirely on Android, but when you look at the millions man hours behind projects such as NetBeans or Eclipse, and realize that everything has to be reinvented for Android
, you can't but thinking that we love to waste our time. Just because we can't have regular Java on Android.
Mark Derricutt
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Fabrizio Giudici
wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:41 AM, Fabrizio Giudici <
> Fabrizio...@tidalwave.it> wrote:
>
>> ... or, how we enjoy reinventing the wheel every time. It's cool to
>> have a
>> first, primitive way to develop entirely on Android, but when you look
>> at
>> the millions man hours behind projects such as NetBeans or Eclipse, and
>> realize that everything has to be reinvented for Android
>
>
> Er... what?
>
> Eclipse is the main IDE for Android development and there are plug-ins in
> for both IDEA and NetBeans. What do you mean by "has to be reinvented"?
> Are
> you referring to the fact that somebody invented one more IDE on top of
> the
> three that already support Android?
AIDE *runs* on Android, Eclipse doesn't. But AIDE is 0.01% of a today's
IDE. We'll have to see everything has been featured in Eclipse and Android
rewritten for AIDE, or similar tools, in the future.
Casper Bang
On Wednesday, March 7, 2012 9:05:09 PM UTC+1, fabrizio.giudici wrote:
AIDE *runs* on Android, Eclipse doesn't. But AIDE is 0.01% of a today's
IDE. We'll have to see everything has been featured in Eclipse and Android
rewritten for AIDE, or similar tools, in the future.
Fabrizio Giudici
wrote:
I think the obvious, that having a true Java VM running on Android would
require no port (for NetBeans; Eclipse would require porting SWT).
Ricky Clarkson
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Ryan Schipper
With a Motorola Atrix and laptop dock...
Fabrizio Giudici
<ricky.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It'd need a serious UI overhaul to be usable (but then it does anyway,
> right?) even if a JVM existed.
On a tablet Swing would be usable as is, of course it would appear dated
and not completely integrated with the environment, but being an IDE a
product targeted to developers you wouldn't run into any relevant user
experience impact; nevertheless you could run the IDE now and people could
start incrementally porting the UI to Android widgets.
Ricky Clarkson
Fabrizio Giudici
<ricky.c...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Swing wouldn't be a problem, the same would apply to either IDE, but I'm
> guessing tiny icons and two or three level menus would be an issue. I
> imagine some keyboard shortcuts would be difficult/impossible to type and
> their menu equivalent too cumbersome to use.
I suppose that patching a few keyboards shortcuts and menus would take
much much less than rewriting an IDE from scratch.
Casper Bang
I think the obvious, that having a true Java VM running on Android would
require no port (for NetBeans; Eclipse would require porting SWT).
Fabrizio Giudici
wrote:
> It sounds like "true Java VM" you are really talking about a Java runtime
> complete with libraries. If Swing looks and feels awkward now on a PC,
> it's
> going to be down right ridiculous on a tablet...
If *developers* feel fine with Swing when they work with NetBeans or
IntelliJ IDEA on a regular computer, I don't see why they should have
problems on a tablet. At least, say, for a couple of years, while a better
integration can be developed.
For what concerns performance, I don't know. But I don't think it would be
a problem since tablets are hardware accelerated for video performance. If
I'm not wrong they run OpenGL and Swing has got OpenGL bindings since some
time.
Mark Derricutt
it's not designed for touch, or fat fingers.
Even if you were targetting say a Transformer Prime with a keyboard doc,
the UI metaphors really want to be different.
Fabrizio Giudici
> Swing would be as usable as Windows was on a tablet prior to Metro -
> it's not designed for touch, or fat fingers.
>
> Even if you were targetting say a Transformer Prime with a keyboard doc,
> the UI metaphors really want to be different.
I don't expect that you heavily develop code with the tablet specific UI
paradigms. The keyboard touch screen has got limits; but there are
tablets, such as the Asus Prime Transformer, that can be connected to a
keyboard with a touchpad. There Swing would work decently.
clay
I've said it before and I will say it again; bring on ease of interoperability through pluggable layers rather than a massive all-encompassing monolith.
Fabrizio Giudici
> On Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:08:35 AM UTC-6, Casper Bang wrote:
>
>>
>> I've said it before and I will say it again; bring on ease of
>> interoperability through pluggable layers rather than a massive
>> all-encompassing monolith.
>>
>
> I completely, emphatically agree with the point I think you are trying to
> make: the Java runtime is too inflexible for the needs of consumer client
> software. Mono lets you run C# apps in iOS, Android, Google NaCL, and
> soon
> PlayStation Vita -- that is flexibility. Java runs on Android, obviously,
> but none of those other platforms, and doesn't even try to accommodate
> them.
What? Java doesn't run on iOS because Apple forbids that. AFAIK there's no
technical reason.
>
> I completely disagree with you, when you have said that this is due to
> permanent technical reasons; Sun/Oracle just haven't taken runtime
> flexibility seriously, they are still pushing an outdated model of asking
> users to install/update/maintain a JRE, and this is one area that the
> open
> source community really hasn't tackled.
>
> I'm disappointed most of this group and the Java community doesn't seem
> to
> understand this.
This is a good point, but completely orthogonal to the issue of Java
runtime on Android or iOS or whatever.
Moandji Ezana
Mark Derricutt
well, compiled a hello world app on my SGS2. But yes - the editing
experience was...... not to be desired :)
clay
What? Java doesn't run on iOS because Apple forbids that. AFAIK there's no
technical reason.
Cédric Beust ♔
On Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:31:01 AM UTC-5, fabrizio.giudici wrote:What? Java doesn't run on iOS because Apple forbids that. AFAIK there's no
technical reason.Absolute nonsense! This is 100% technical.
You are also right that we are off topic: a new Java IDE that is built from the ground up for development inside of Android sounds amazing.
Jeb Beich
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Jeb Beich
http://www.red-source.net/jeb
Cédric Beust ♔
Some people really want to run Android on their real device.
Jeb Beich
--Cédric
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Josh Berry
I think it was meant more for Android to be a person's only device.
Some benefits are simply to have a somewhat clean room IDE created
again. Might not provide anything worth replacing the old directly,
but could provide some ideas they could use. I can't say that I'm
against it. And I still heavily use vim and LaTeX. :)
-josh
Fabrizio Giudici
> wrote:
>>
>> We all do, but what's the point in *developing* your application on
>> Android?
Well, I've bought a tablet. Sometimes - usually leisure time - I carry it
instead of the real laptop because e.g. it's lighter. Sometimes even in
leisure time something technical comes to my mind and I'd like to try it.
This is the less important reason.
The important reason is that if it's true that tablets are going to
replace computers in the medium term, we'll be more and more black swans
for the fact the we need a computer for our work. So I'd like to see that
we can use tablets too in perspective. It's true that this is a long
journey and perhaps I shouldn't be worried now, but...
clay
We all do, but what's the point in *developing* your application on Android?What are the benefits?
clay
No. Even if there were a JRE on iOS, it's pretty unlikely that Apple would approve applications written in Java in the app store since they have been a very clearly hostile opponent of Java since day one (well, day two if you exclude the dance that Steve Jobs once did at JavaOne to promise to make MacOS the best Java environment available. Ironically, it actually happened, even though he killed the initiative).
Fabrizio Giudici
> We are not hearing each other on this.
> Apple routinely approves applications written in ActionScript with Adobe
> tools and C# with MonoTouch, and it's invisible to the end user who just
> sees a native iPhone application. Apple won't go out of their way to
> support Java, but they also won't go out of their way to block
> Java/JVM/Scala development in the same way they don't block ActionScript
> or
> C# development tool chains. The difference is that Adobe and MonoTouch
> uses
> embedded VMs and deliver native iOS binaries without any special help
> from
> Apple. Java doesn't attempt this at all.
True - but these are two independent things. The fact that other
technologies pushed things more than Java is true, but it's not true that
the JRE has got technical problems in running on iOS, which was the
previous assertion.
Ricky Clarkson
I'm using that otherwise dead time to learn about technologies, and I like being able to try them out there and then. Even if it's difficult, it's possible and that's fantastic.
--Cédric
Moandji Ezana
On 15 Mar 2012 17:29, "Cédric Beust ♔" <ced...@beust.com> wrote:
> I'm genuinely curious, I really don't understand the excitement. What does a developer gain by developing on the device instead of developing on a real computer with a real IDE
What's the difference between an Android tablet with a keyboard and a real computer?
Moandji
clay
True - but these are two independent things. The fact that other
technologies pushed things more than Java is true, but it's not true that
the JRE has got technical problems in running on iOS, which was the
previous assertion.
Jon Kiparsky
I hate those questions...
Moandji
--
Moandji Ezana
Is this one of those questions where no matter what I say you whack my upside the head with a big stick?
Fabrizio Giudici
The difference with a classic laptop is that, for instance, you can detach
the keyboard. You use it as a tablet when you can and as a laptop when you
must.
Josh Berry
<Fabrizio...@tidalwave.it> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:50:35 +0100, Moandji Ezana <mwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 8:30 AM, Jon Kiparsky
>> <jon.ki...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Is this one of those questions where no matter what I say you whack my
>>> upside the head with a big stick?
>>>
>>
>> No, sincere question. I'm wondering why tablets aren't considered real
>> computers.
>
>
> The difference with a classic laptop is that, for instance, you can detach
> the keyboard. You use it as a tablet when you can and as a laptop when you
> must.
Though, for the record, I'm quite happy with my "convertible tablet"
from lenovo. Isn't as good in the touch category as it could be, but
the vast majority of the time I am not in touch mode. And, as neat as
finger painting is, I much prefer the digitizer if I am
drawing/annotating anything.
Fabrizio Giudici
> Though, for the record, I'm quite happy with my "convertible tablet"
> from lenovo. Isn't as good in the touch category as it could be, but
> the vast majority of the time I am not in touch mode. And, as neat as
> finger painting is, I much prefer the digitizer if I am
> drawing/annotating anything.
Product link, please :-)
Cédric Beust ♔
Josh Berry
<Fabrizio...@tidalwave.it> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:31:47 +0100, Josh Berry <tae...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Though, for the record, I'm quite happy with my "convertible tablet"
>> from lenovo. Isn't as good in the touch category as it could be, but
>> the vast majority of the time I am not in touch mode. And, as neat as
>> finger painting is, I much prefer the digitizer if I am
>> drawing/annotating anything.
>
>
> Product link, please :-)
Sure, sorry for not seeing this earlier.
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/laptop/thinkpad/xtablet-series/
I've currently got Ubuntu on the machine. Most everything worked with
no hassle. I did have to add some scripts to detect when I rotate it
to be in "tablet only" mode. And the onscreen keyboard is somewhat
terrible. I'm usually only in that mode to read/annotate a pdf or
draw a picture with MyPaint.
(Also apologies for sending the us link... noticed that after I pasted it.)
Dick Wall
Jeb Beich
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Josh Berry
> I can think of two positive differences off the top of my head. The
> transformer with keyboard attached is much smaller and lighter than my
> laptop, and in addition, has 16 hours of battery life versus 5-6ish for the
> laptop (I go on some pretty long flights).
Wouldn't this have been just as easy to address with a netbook,
though? I don't know of any netbooks that can get 16 hours of battery
life, but it seemed that was mainly because they stopped trying.
Cédric Beust ♔
I can think of two positive differences off the top of my head. The transformer with keyboard attached is much smaller and lighter than my laptop, and in addition, has 16 hours of battery life versus 5-6ish for the laptop (I go on some pretty long flights).
Fabrizio Giudici
wrote:
> One big unknown here is what the impact on the battery would be if you do
> development on a tablet. Development is very different from casual use
> since it uses the disk and the CPU a lot more, especially if you use an
> IDE.
Right, but it depends on the development you do. In the example by Dick, a
long flight, I'd usually take the opportunity of clean up the code, or try
something that I've bookmarked from blog posts in the past days. Usually
it's nothing very complex, and I'd spend most of the time editing. I think
you would reduce the battery time, but not too much, in the end you'd stay
much longer than with a regular laptop.