Devloper or Programmer?

[Brian Leathem]

What's the difference between a programmer and a developer? Do they
have different responsibilities? Does one require more creativity?
Is one more prestigious? Or are they synonymous...?

In short, what should I tell HR my job title should be.

Brian

[Kfir Shay]

hope you understand there is no right or wrong answer, personally I
think about myself as an Engineer, tell them your title is Software
Eng.

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[Brian Leathem]

Kfir Shay wrote:
> hope you understand there is no right or wrong answer, personally I
> think about myself as an Engineer, tell them your title is Software
> Eng.
>

I'm looking for other people's perspectives. To me it feels like
Programmer is a more dated term, and developer is more modern - but that
isn't really based on anything tangible.

Brian

[Lorenzo Dini]

Hi,

Sun in its Java certifications defines a Programmer who knows the Java language and a Developer who is able to use the language to build software in a proper way:

Programmer:
"This foundation certification is for programmers interested in demonstrating proficiency in the fundamentals of the Java programming language. To achieve this certification, candidates must successfully complete one exam."
http://www.sun.com/training/certification/java/scjp.xml

Developer:
"This performance-based certification is for developers interested in demonstrating advanced proficiency in the Java programming language using the Java SE.
To achieve this certification, candidates must successfully complete two elements: a programming assignment and an essay exam. Prior to attempting certification, candidates must be certified as a Sun Certified Programmer (SCJP), any edition. It is not necessary to be a Sun Certified Java Associate prior to taking this exam."
http://www.sun.com/training/certification/java/scjd.xml

This puts a Developer in a little bit higher position than a Developer.

I personally agree with Kfir and call myself Software Engineer.

Lorenzo

2009/11/24 Brian Leathem <blea...@gmail.com>

[Lorenzo Dini]

This puts a Developer in a little bit higher position than a Developer.

than a Programmer.

Lorenzo

[Derek Munneke]

I tend to think of it as:

1. Programmer - cuts coding
2. Developer - performs a complete SDLC (design, code, test)
3. Software Engineer - creates lot of documentation too!

I tend to avoid the term "engineer" cause i don't think software development is more creative then process; ie. more akin to architecture then building.

However reading wikipedia's definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering

[T]he creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property.

 

I might change my mind...

/derek

[Viktor Klang]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Lorenzo Dini <dinil...@gmail.com> wrote:

This puts a Developer in a little bit higher position than a Developer.

than a Programmer.

I kinda enjoyed that recursive definition. :/
 

Lorenzo

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[Viktor Klang]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:43 AM, Derek Munneke <derek....@gmail.com> wrote:

I tend to think of it as:

1. Programmer - cuts coding
2. Developer - performs a complete SDLC (design, code, test)
3. Software Engineer - creates lot of documentation too!

and for Systems Ninjas as myself, we attack first and _THEN_ write tests.
 

--

[Phil]

My 2p-worth...

When I first started work (21 years ago now) programmers were people
who were handed 'finished' designs and wrote code and unit tests. They
did nothing else and were the lowest form of life in a project (Ref:
Uncle Bob's talk at Devoxx).

Programmers (more usually referred to here as developers) these days
generally have a wider range of skills that for all but the newest
graduates would include at least some design skills, and probably lots
of other stuff too. As a freelancer I generally refer to myself as a
consultant rather than a developer.

In many ways the best title to use will depend on the country you live
in...

[Stuart McCulloch]

2009/11/24 Phil <ph...@surfsoftconsulting.com>

In many ways the best title to use will depend on the country you live in...

So true!  In Malaysia anyone who works in an office is called an Executive, which confused me when I was job hunting a few years back.

--
Cheers, Stuart

[Casper Bang]

And in Germany, everyone with a doctorial research degree literally
puts "Doctor" in front of their name (i.e. Dr Heinz Kabutz of
javaspecialist fame) which is worth keeping in mind next time the
pilot asks "Is there a doctor on board?" while in route to Germany. :)

/Casper

On Nov 24, 12:19 pm, Stuart McCulloch <mccu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/11/24 Phil <p...@surfsoftconsulting.com>

[Joey Gibson]

I refer to myself as a developer and get slightly annoyed when someone refers to me as a programmer. I started professionally writing code in 1990, and at that time, a 'programmer' was just a guy you handed designs to for him to implement, with little or no thought of his own needed (or desired). I first heard the derisive term 'code monkey' used of programmers many, many years ago, before JoCo made it cool. :-) Developers, on the other hand, did far more than that, including design work, and thus my preference for 'developer.' I agree with the other person in the thread who said that today it's not quite so cut and dried as it once was, and is mostly a preference thing now.

Joey

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[Marcelo Fukushima]

thats how i learned recursion - by first, learning recursion

but thats an old one i guess (it still brings me a smile though)

http://mapsdev.blogspot.com/
Marcelo Takeshi Fukushima

[iwork iwork]

Senior Developer ^___^ might be much better hahah

[Brian Leathem]

Derek Munneke wrote:
> I tend to think of it as:
>

> 1. Programmer - cuts coding
> 2. Developer - performs a complete SDLC (design, code, test)
> 3. Software Engineer - creates lot of documentation too!
>

How about an "Analyst", where does it fit in with this? I often see it
matched with Programmer - as in "Programmer/Analyst".

If:
Programmer/Analyst = Programmer + Analyst
this implies (to me):
Programmer/Analyst = Developer.

I'm glad I'm not in HR. The Java API space is easier to navigate than
this. Well not really...

Brian

[Ruben Reusser]

my 2c

programmer learned to program (write code)
developer is an engineer, can solve problems (and write code)

--

--
Ruben Reusser

[Viktor Klang]

My dayjob title is: Senior Systems Analyst
The question is: what is that?

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[Alexey Zinger]

I'm worst of all: a consultant.  I don't know why they expect me to write code.  All I wanna do is come in, drink my coffee and occasionally say things like, "In my professional opinion, you're doing it all wrong" and go home.

 

Alexey

---

From: Viktor Klang <viktor...@gmail.com>
To: java...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 1:28:57 PM
Subject: Re: [The Java Posse] Developer or Programmer?

[ags]

Go creative, there are creative managers, creative designers (now... imagine an un-creative one :D), creative executives.. Then why not creative code wrangler/problem solver? Would definitely describe the job AND fall out of the boring hr 'For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized' :-)

[John Ament]

I can probably one up most people. My job title is "Web Developer."
I keep writing code that has nothing to do with the web - an EJB that
polls data from a web service and throws into a local database table,
an ETL script, One thing to realize in the business world, job titles
usually have very little correlation to what you're actually doing,
since it's just someone in HR assigning them on a whim. One guy on
our team declared his title to be "Sr. Systems Engineer" even though
his *real* title is Programmer/Analyst.